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The Russia Ukraine Conflict Thread (2 Viewers)

MSNBC reporter leaves TV to join Ukraine in war against Russia

“The more I saw of the war going on, the more I thought, ‘I’m done talking, all right? It’s time to take action here,’” said Nance, suited up in a flak jacket and carrying an assault rifle. “I am here to help this country fight … what essentially is a war of extermination. This is an existential war and Russia has brought it to these people and they are mass murdering civilians, and there are people here like me who are here to do something about it.”

 
The General said:
MSNBC reporter leaves TV to join Ukraine in war against Russia

“The more I saw of the war going on, the more I thought, ‘I’m done talking, all right? It’s time to take action here,’” said Nance, suited up in a flak jacket and carrying an assault rifle. “I am here to help this country fight … what essentially is a war of extermination. This is an existential war and Russia has brought it to these people and they are mass murdering civilians, and there are people here like me who are here to do something about it.”
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While I respect these crazy people's decisions I always cringe when I see an American suiting up. They are a HUGE propaganda win for Russia if captured or killed. "SEE??! NATO REALLY IS THE ENEMY WE ARE FIGHTING. THEY ARE ON THE BATTLEFIELD TRYING TO KILL OUR CHILDREN"

 
top dog said:
While I respect these crazy people's decisions I always cringe when I see an American suiting up. They are a HUGE propaganda win for Russia if captured or killed. "SEE??! NATO REALLY IS THE ENEMY WE ARE FIGHTING. THEY ARE ON THE BATTLEFIELD TRYING TO KILL OUR CHILDREN"
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They’re going to say that stuff anyway, so who really cares about their decision?

 
top dog said:
While I respect these crazy people's decisions I always cringe when I see an American suiting up. They are a HUGE propaganda win for Russia if captured or killed. "SEE??! NATO REALLY IS THE ENEMY WE ARE FIGHTING. THEY ARE ON THE BATTLEFIELD TRYING TO KILL OUR CHILDREN"
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The Russians have already captured a citizen of the UK taking up arms in Ukraine. 

 
Dezbelief said:
The Russians have already captured a citizen of the UK taking up arms in Ukraine. 
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Two of them now. And they have been paraded around. Hate to see an American in that situation. It is of course different than a typical hostage situation as they went there voluntarily knowing the risks.

 
Jesus

”Thousands of civilians and Ukrainian troops are sheltered in a steel plant, the last remaining stronghold of the city. However, the building is surrounded by Russian forces, leaving the people inside with no access to “normal” supplies of food and water, an adviser for the city’s mayor said.

The enemy is outnumbering us 10 to 1,” Serhiy Volyna, a commander from the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, wrote on Facebook on Wednesday. “We appeal and plead to all world leaders to help us. We ask them to use the procedure of extraction and take us to the territory of a third-party state.”

 
The General said:
Jesus

”Thousands of civilians and Ukrainian troops are sheltered in a steel plant, the last remaining stronghold of the city. However, the building is surrounded by Russian forces, leaving the people inside with no access to “normal” supplies of food and water, an adviser for the city’s mayor said.

The enemy is outnumbering us 10 to 1,” Serhiy Volyna, a commander from the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, wrote on Facebook on Wednesday. “We appeal and plead to all world leaders to help us. We ask them to use the procedure of extraction and take us to the territory of a third-party state.”
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I’m very sad for them, and I’d love for someone to suddenly swoop in and rescue them. I don’t see it happening, which is even sadder, but they’re tying up more of Russia’s resources than if they had surrendered, and they will be remembered/ celebrated for their efforts.

 
Kal El said:
I’m very sad for them, and I’d love for someone to suddenly swoop in and rescue them. I don’t see it happening, which is even sadder, but they’re tying up more of Russia’s resources than if they had surrendered, and they will be remembered/ celebrated for their efforts.
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There are no good outcomes here. Just best of the worst.

 
Jagov said:
Agree that this story has no happy ending but they have found their hill to fight for and die on. History will remember them long after boring types like me are gone.
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It really is hard to wrap the brain around. Seeing people you know are likely going to be dead in a couple days. It’s difficult to process. 

That they are asking to be taken away by an outside country they are essentially surrendering. I don’t know how this can be done or if there is some precedent that could be used as a framework for allowing this. 

 
The General said:
It really is hard to wrap the brain around. Seeing people you know are likely going to be dead in a couple days. It’s difficult to process. 

That they are asking to be taken away by an outside country they are essentially surrendering. I don’t know how this can be done or if there is some precedent that could be used as a framework for allowing this. 
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I think the opportunity for them to surrender has passed. Russia is going to take Mariupol and make examples of whever was left fighting to the end.  :(

 
Jagov said:
Agree that this story has no happy ending but they have found their hill to fight for and die on. History will remember them long after boring types like me are gone.
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It’s like Thermopylae, everyone remembers the story of the Spartans holding back a much bigger army, but a lot of people forget that they lost that fight, but succeeded in delaying Xerxes.

 
Can't believe I can't find the work of any skilled photoshoppers yet, showing the Ukraine postage stamp with a revised, sinking ship in it.

 
I am trying to follow this, but it gets confusing.   Why does Putin keep thinking that Russia is going to be attacked by a NATO country?  Russia was never going to be invaded by anyone.  

 
Da Guru said:
I am trying to follow this, but it gets confusing.   Why does Putin keep thinking that Russia is going to be attacked by a NATO country?  Russia was never going to be invaded by anyone.  
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Primarily because he's an insane autocrat held to zero accountability for decades is my guess.

 
Da Guru said:
I am trying to follow this, but it gets confusing.   Why does Putin keep thinking that Russia is going to be attacked by a NATO country?  Russia was never going to be invaded by anyone.  
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He needs a boogeyman to keep the populace scared.

 
Da Guru said:
I am trying to follow this, but it gets confusing.   Why does Putin keep thinking that Russia is going to be attacked by a NATO country?  Russia was never going to be invaded by anyone.  
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By pushing the NATO vs Russia narrative to the front it is easier for Vlad to deflect attention away from the Ukrainians are giving the Russian army a big bloody nose narrative.

 
Jagov said:
By pushing the NATO vs Russia narrative to the front it is easier for Vlad to deflect attention away from the Ukrainians are giving the Russian army a big bloody nose narrative.
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He has apparently ordered his forces to “block” Mariupol, which is what I thought they were doing already? I know they can’t get into the steel plant, and that’s keeping them occupied there.

 
Kal El said:
He has apparently ordered his forces to “block” Mariupol, which is what I thought they were doing already? I know they can’t get into the steel plant, and that’s keeping them occupied there.
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Think the change is they won’t try to attack remaining defenders there and just starve them out.  For the rest of the city, Russia went block by block attacking the Ukrainian army and pushing them out while at the same time blockading the whole city. 

 
Redwes25 said:
Think the change is they won’t try to attack remaining defenders there and just starve them out.  For the rest of the city, Russia went block by block attacking the Ukrainian army and pushing them out while at the same time blockading the whole city. 
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That’ll still tie up forces trying to enforce a blockade, and starvation takes time, which they don’t have. I’m praying for something miraculous to happen, but I’m clearly not the Almighty, they may wind up dying from starvation.

 
The General said:
Primarily because he's an insane autocrat held to zero accountability for decades is my guess.
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If Putin was so worried Russia was going to be invaded why not just join NATO and be secure forever.

Last December announce "We would like to welcome Russia, Finland and Sweden as our new partners for world peace and security."

No war, no deaths, no worries.  Too simple..I know.

 
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Da Guru said:
If Putin was so worried Russia was going to be invaded why not just join NATO and be secure forever.

Last December announce "We would like to welcome Russia, Finland and Sweden as our new partners for world peace and security."

No war, no deaths, no worries.  Too simple..I know.
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Yeah if only.

Trying to figure out what a lunatic wants is tough but the goal is to rebuild the collapsed Soviet Union is what I kept seeing as this invasion built up. He’s bilked billions from his country for himself and his inner circle and had unchecked power for decades which hasn’t helped his grasp of reality. 

If I had to guess Russia will get these Eastern portions of Ukraine, will have grown NATO to the point he has no where else to expand without nuclear war with, and to a degree destabilized the world outside of just NATO and Russia.

 
The General said:
Yeah if only.

Trying to figure out what a lunatic wants is tough but the goal is to rebuild the collapsed Soviet Union is what I kept seeing as this invasion built up. He’s bilked billions from his country for himself and his inner circle and had unchecked power for decades which hasn’t helped his grasp of reality. 

If I had to guess Russia will get these Eastern portions of Ukraine, will have grown NATO to the point he has no where else to expand without nuclear war with, and to a degree destabilized the world outside of just NATO and Russia.
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From my perspective, Vlad the Invader is not insane or missing some marbles. He is a rational actor. The difference is that he looks at things and makes decisions thru a very traditional Russian lens. His architecture of values is based on autocracy, orthodoxy, nationalism and ruthlessness. These things make it appear on the surface that he is a wacko. These things are also the reason that a membership in NATO could never fly. For him or the existing NATO members.

 
Jagov said:
From my perspective, Vlad the Invader is not insane or missing some marbles. He is a rational actor. The difference is that he looks at things and makes decisions thru a very traditional Russian lens. His architecture of values is based on autocracy, orthodoxy, nationalism and ruthlessness. These things make it appear on the surface that he is a wacko. These things are also the reason that a membership in NATO could never fly. For him or the existing NATO members.
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I don’t think he’s howling at the moon crazy, more that any person who would unleash this attack on Ukraine civilians, convincing his own people they are under a threat has a level of craziness. You are correct ruthless is probably a better word. 

I assumed the NATO membership was sort of an “imagine a world where this could happen” pie in the sky type thing. Yeah he was never joining NATO, his whole goal has been to break it up. 

 
Kal El said:
That’ll still tie up forces trying to enforce a blockade, and starvation takes time, which they don’t have. I’m praying for something miraculous to happen, but I’m clearly not the Almighty, they may wind up dying from starvation.
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They probably need to keep a good sized garrison in that city anyway and it is much easier to defend in an urban environment so imagine they need less troops to do a blockade then assult the plant. Also, having paid attention to this fight for Maruipol the Russians have been trying to assult the plant for weeks with no success.  

Also, imagine a lot of the units in Maruipol are already spent so imagine pulling them out to fight elsewhere wouldnt move the needle elsewhere in the east but they probably could still enforce a blockade.  

 
Redwes25 said:
They probably need to keep a good sized garrison in that city anyway and it is much easier to defend in an urban environment so imagine they need less troops to do a blockade then assult the plant. Also, having paid attention to this fight for Maruipol the Russians have been trying to assult the plant for weeks with no success.  

Also, imagine a lot of the units in Maruipol are already spent so imagine pulling them out to fight elsewhere wouldnt move the needle elsewhere in the east but they probably could still enforce a blockade.  
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That may be true, but Ukraine is fighting for everything it has, Russia isn’t, and they’ll lose because of it. At any rate, sometimes a delaying strategy, even if it ultimately results in a loss of that battle, can help that army succeed in the bigger picture. Russia dedicated a lot of time, equipment, and cannon fodder to the effort in Mariupol, meaning that it can’t be used elsewhere. That helps Ukraine more, going forward.

 
Kal El said:
That may be true, but Ukraine is fighting for everything it has, Russia isn’t, and they’ll lose because of it. At any rate, sometimes a delaying strategy, even if it ultimately results in a loss of that battle, can help that army succeed in the bigger picture. Russia dedicated a lot of time, equipment, and cannon fodder to the effort in Mariupol, meaning that it can’t be used elsewhere. That helps Ukraine more, going forward.
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Totally agree, the battle in Mariupol appears to be a pyrrhic victory at best for Russia. 

 
Redwes25 said:
Totally agree, the battle in Mariupol appears to be a pyrrhic victory at best for Russia. 
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I agree, and I doubt it’ll even be that. Their military is a shell of what it was even rumored to be, and they’ll keep losing troops until they eventually run out.

 
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