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The Tea Party is back in business! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
And regarding this: you want the President and the Dems to sit down and compromise. But what exactly do you want them to compromise on? Do you seriously expect them to agree to defund Obamacare? To delay it for one year? To delay the individual mandate for one year? How can anyone possibly regard these as serious demands?
And if Obama refuses to do any of these things, as we all know he will, what then? What's the point of talking?
This is all political posturing with neither side giving a rats ### about what is best for the country. You want to blame the GOP 100% as always you do, but Obama could end this by throwing Boehner any tiny bone. But no, so both sides parrot empty talking points to cater to their base and show what he-men they are. I have no interest in debating the spin. It is all meaningless drivel that has zero bearing on what is best for this country.
timschochet
Footballguy
Update on the piecemeal bills discussed earlier on Hannity today: the House Republicans proposed 3 of them this afternoon: one to fund veteran affairs, one to fund the national parks, one to fund the District of Columbia. They required a 2/3rd majority to pass, and all 3 failed, mainly due to Democratic opposition.
timschochet
Footballguy
IF Obama could truly end this by throwing Boehner a "tiny bone" I would be on your side all the way. But what is that "tiny bone?" So far, the House has demanded pretty large bones which I would refuse if I were him. What is it that you have in mind?
timschochet
Footballguy
Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
There are a million problems with Obamacare some of them which both sides agree on. Obama agrees to a couple of these, and Boehner has cover to hide under. It is not hard at all.
timschochet
Footballguy
Good question. I don't know. It has something to do with suspension of the rules, but I'm not sure how it works. Each of the bills received a majority, with all Republicans and 33 Democrats voting in favor.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
They are both equally responsible. I have no idea why you keep defending the Democrats, except perhaps that is what your 'experts' at MSNBC says to do. It is 100 percent partisan politics being played by both sides.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
timschochet
Footballguy
The Tea Party made 3 demands: first they demanded that Obamacare be defunded. Next, they demanded that Obamacare be delayed for a year. Next, they demanded that the individual mandate be delayed for a year. (And several more hardline Tea Partiers, such as Bachmann and Gomert, rebelled against the 2nd and 3rd demands as they considered them "too soft.")
Therefore, I believe you're wrong. If this were an issue of agreeing to a couple of minor points, this would have been solved long ago. The Tea Party is determined to kill Obamacare. That's why we're in this mess.
timschochet
Footballguy
The reason I am defending the Democrats in this instance is because the Republicans began this by making unreasonable demands.They are both equally responsible. I have no idea why you keep defending the Democrats, except perhaps that is what your 'experts' at MSNBC says to do. It is 100 percent partisan politics being played by both sides.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
Apple Jack
Footballguy
No, they are not both equally responsible and the fact that you think that makes you laugh out loud delusional.
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
Apples to Oranges.
This is forcing health insurance on people, if someone decides they don't want it they get fined $695 in 2016, that is stupid. Do any other countries carry penalties like this?
I look at Social Security as a tax, it comes out of people's paychecks just like other taxes. If someone is getting the bulk of their income from investments they aren't paying SS, they also aren't "opting out of it".
dparker713
Footballguy
Tiny bone? No he really can't. Everything they've proposed is a major change to a major piece of legislation. And a delay? Conveniently long enough for the next budget battle to come around.
so you would feel better with it as a tax? close your eyes and pretend the 695 is a tax
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I still want to know (1) what the tiny bone is that will make the House Republicans concede
(2) what the Democrats did to make them equally guilty for the shutdown.
(2) what the Democrats did to make them equally guilty for the shutdown.
dparker713
Footballguy
Chief Justice Roberts views the ACA penalty as a tax, so you're in luck. Just consider the $695 fine a tax and you'll be able to understand why you can't opt out.
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ffldrew
Footballguy
#1 - a good 500+ drop in Dow / 100 point drop in S&P will do it - same thing when they flirt with debt ceiling
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
Square peg round hole. What other countries do this? What other "laws" penalize people $695 when they don't elect to pay for something they don't need? It's like saying, we understand you cannot afford Obamacare so we are going to penalize you $695 for not complying with big government and you get nothing in return.
Nice Bait and Switch!
Obamacare Website Quietly Deletes Reference to ‘Free Health Care’
Jeryl Bier
Sept. 30, 2013
Even as President Obama and his administration are making a last minute push to encourage enrollment in Obamacare, a quiet change was made on the Healthcare.gov website regarding those who will still not be able to afford coverage after the program kicks in. From at least June 26, 2013 to as recently as September 15, under the topic, “Where can I get free or low-cost care in my community?” the following statement appeared: “If you can’t afford any health plan, you can get free or low-cost health and dental care at a nearby community health center.” Here is how the page in question appeared:
Where can I get free or low-cost care in my community?
> If you can't afford any health plan, you can get free or low-cost health and dental care at a nearby community health center.
However, sometime between September 16 and September 23, the reference to “free” care was dropped. The title of the topic was changed as well, and now reads: “Where can I get low-cost care in my community?” Here is how the page currently appears:
Where can I get low-cost care in my community?
> If you can't afford any health plan, you can get low-cost health and dental care at a nearby community health center.
The page in question is not a new one, as the webpage’s Internet address remains the same, still containing the word “free”: www.healthcare.gov/where-can-i-get-free-or-low-cost-care/. However, there is no notation anywhere on the page that it was revised; the change just appeared unannounced.
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Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
All negotiations start off with sides taking extreme positions.The reason I am defending the Democrats in this instance is because the Republicans began this by making unreasonable demands.They are both equally responsible. I have no idea why you keep defending the Democrats, except perhaps that is what your 'experts' at MSNBC says to do. It is 100 percent partisan politics being played by both sides.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
timschochet
Footballguy
I want to retract this comment, because I just learned something I didn't know: all 3 of these piecemeal bills were for funding those programs for ONE WEEK ONLY.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
OK, that's total crap. Just a political game by the Republicans, and the Dems were right to vote against.
timschochet
Footballguy
These weren't negotiations.All negotiations start off with sides taking extreme positions.The reason I am defending the Democrats in this instance is because the Republicans began this by making unreasonable demands.They are both equally responsible. I have no idea why you keep defending the Democrats, except perhaps that is what your 'experts' at MSNBC says to do. It is 100 percent partisan politics being played by both sides.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Even if they were for a year, why should democrats piecemeal fund everything, one item at a time until eitherI want to retract this comment, because I just learned something I didn't know: all 3 of these piecemeal bills were for funding those programs for ONE WEEK ONLY.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
OK, that's total crap. Just a political game by the Republicans, and the Dems were right to vote against.
- Everything is funded but ObamaCare or
- they draw lines on who to be harmed by the shutdown and who to protect
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timschochet
Footballguy
jon, I can see by your comments that you believe this is all political posturing and that the Republicans would agree to a few small changes to Obamacare. That leads me to believe that you either haven't been paying attention or that you still do not get the Tea Party. THEY ARE NOT CONSERVATIVES in the way you are a conservative. You and I disagree a lot, but you're a rational guy who believes in limited government, opposes big spending, and wants to see taxation kept low. That's all fine. You're a traditional Republican and there's nothing wrong with that. The Tea Party is a different animal entirely. They don't represent you. You're willing to compromise; they are not.
eurotrashman
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Because your truth-telling is what we commonly calls "misleading", "half-truths" or "outright lies". The truth for the progressives like yourself is anything that agrees with them.
timschochet
Footballguy
Politically I get that. Practically, I'm for anything in which as few people are hurt as possible. I hate these furloughs in particular. So I would have voted for those bills if they had been for a year, whatever the political outcome. Not for a week though.Even if they were for a year, why should democrats piecemeal fund everything, one item at a time until eitherI want to retract this comment, because I just learned something I didn't know: all 3 of these piecemeal bills were for funding those programs for ONE WEEK ONLY.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
OK, that's total crap. Just a political game by the Republicans, and the Dems were right to vote against.
Not walking into an obvious trap was never political gamesmanship.
- Everything is funded by ObamaCare or
- they draw lines on who to be harmed by the shutdown and who to protect
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Then why shouldn't they just sign off on the Tea Party's defunding bills?Politically I get that. Practically, I'm for anything in which as few people are hurt as possible. I hate these furloughs in particular. So I would have voted for those bills if they had been for a year, whatever the political outcome. Not for a week though.Even if they were for a year, why should democrats piecemeal fund everything, one item at a time until eitherI want to retract this comment, because I just learned something I didn't know: all 3 of these piecemeal bills were for funding those programs for ONE WEEK ONLY.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
OK, that's total crap. Just a political game by the Republicans, and the Dems were right to vote against.
Not walking into an obvious trap was never political gamesmanship.
- Everything is funded but ObamaCare or
- they draw lines on who to be harmed by the shutdown and who to protect
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timschochet
Footballguy
Because that would seriously damage our political system.Then why shouldn't they just sign off on the Tea Party's defunding bills?Politically I get that. Practically, I'm for anything in which as few people are hurt as possible. I hate these furloughs in particular. So I would have voted for those bills if they had been for a year, whatever the political outcome. Not for a week though.Even if they were for a year, why should democrats piecemeal fund everything, one item at a time until eitherI want to retract this comment, because I just learned something I didn't know: all 3 of these piecemeal bills were for funding those programs for ONE WEEK ONLY.Despite the fact that it helps the Tea Party politically (and that is the last thing I want to do) I think the Democrats should have passed these bills. They are playing a political game as well, and I don't like that. But they're not responsible for starting this mess.And the Democrats bear no blame for this crap....
OK, that's total crap. Just a political game by the Republicans, and the Dems were right to vote against.
Not walking into an obvious trap was never political gamesmanship.
- Everything is funded by ObamaCare or
- they draw lines on who to be harmed by the shutdown and who to protect
When you put it that way, you're right.
Otis
Footballguy
eurotrashman
Footballguy
eurotrashman
Footballguy
Why do these guys run for a job they don't want to do? Why would you apply for a job with a company you hate or did not approve of the way they do business??
There is one area where the House, Senate, and President have come to an agreement and passed a billhttps://iqconnect.lmhostediq.com/iq...BILLS-113hr3210enr/pdf/BILLS-113hr3210enr.pdf providing uninterrupted pay for our military and DOD civilians. Our armed forces and civilian support have suffered the most this year during the sequester, and it was essential that they were protected during this government slowdown. But early this morning, I learned that the Department of Defense narrowly interpreted that law to apply only to a small group of civilian defense employees. This ignores the clear language of the House bill that mandates that all military and civilians are protected from the slowdown, including our National Guard and Reserve members serving in active duty status, full-time Guard members, and dual-status technicians. I have sent a letter to Secretary Hagel to ask him to rectify this situation immediately.
Email I received from Lankford (R-OK)
Email I received from Lankford (R-OK)
timschochet
Footballguy
http://www.webpronews.com/government-shutdown-could-hurt-republicans-shows-poll-2013-10
Americans may be divided on the Affordable Care Act (ACA, colloquially known as “ObamaCare”), but it seems they aren’t on board with shutting down the U.S. government to prevent its implementation.
A new Quinnipiac poll out today shows that 72% of American voters oppose shutting down the government as a tactic to block the ACA. 64% also oppose using debt ceiling legislation to block implementation of the new healthcare initiative, and a majority (58%) even oppose cutting funding for the ACA as a way to prevent it. This is despite the fact that 47% of those same Americans polled are opposed to the ACA, with only 45% in favor of it.
Not even a majority of Republicans support the move, with only 49% of those Republicans polled in favor of the shutdown. What could be worse for the GOP is that a full 74% of independents are opposed to the government shutdown. The Quinnipiac poll found that disapproval for Republicans in Congress is now at 74%, with disapproval for Congressional Democrats now sitting at 60%.
“Americans are certainly not in love with Obamacare, but they reject decisively the claim by Congressional Republicans that it is so bad that it’s worth closing down the government to stop it,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.
The U.S. government is currently in the process of shutting down non-essential services following congress’ failure to pass a continuing resolution to provide funding until a budget can be ironed out. The legislation is crucial to the U.S. government’s functionality, and House Republicans this week took the bill hostage, refusing to vote on a version of the bill that doesn’t contain amendments delaying the ACA. The ACA is not directly related to the funding bill, and will be implemented despite the government shutdown.
Though the Senate-approved version of the bill would likely pass the house, Republican House leadership has prevented such a vote, instead opting to send the Senate its own versions of the continuing resolution with an amendment to delay the ACA attached. The Democrat-controlled Senate has consistently rejected these versions of the bill.
Americans may be divided on the Affordable Care Act (ACA, colloquially known as “ObamaCare”), but it seems they aren’t on board with shutting down the U.S. government to prevent its implementation.
A new Quinnipiac poll out today shows that 72% of American voters oppose shutting down the government as a tactic to block the ACA. 64% also oppose using debt ceiling legislation to block implementation of the new healthcare initiative, and a majority (58%) even oppose cutting funding for the ACA as a way to prevent it. This is despite the fact that 47% of those same Americans polled are opposed to the ACA, with only 45% in favor of it.
Not even a majority of Republicans support the move, with only 49% of those Republicans polled in favor of the shutdown. What could be worse for the GOP is that a full 74% of independents are opposed to the government shutdown. The Quinnipiac poll found that disapproval for Republicans in Congress is now at 74%, with disapproval for Congressional Democrats now sitting at 60%.
“Americans are certainly not in love with Obamacare, but they reject decisively the claim by Congressional Republicans that it is so bad that it’s worth closing down the government to stop it,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.
The U.S. government is currently in the process of shutting down non-essential services following congress’ failure to pass a continuing resolution to provide funding until a budget can be ironed out. The legislation is crucial to the U.S. government’s functionality, and House Republicans this week took the bill hostage, refusing to vote on a version of the bill that doesn’t contain amendments delaying the ACA. The ACA is not directly related to the funding bill, and will be implemented despite the government shutdown.
Though the Senate-approved version of the bill would likely pass the house, Republican House leadership has prevented such a vote, instead opting to send the Senate its own versions of the continuing resolution with an amendment to delay the ACA attached. The Democrat-controlled Senate has consistently rejected these versions of the bill.
timschochet
Footballguy
That figure of 72% is only going to grow if this continues for a few days. I predict that Boehner will find some way to gracefully retreat here. I'm not sure how he'll do it though. I'm hoping the result is a complete repudiation of the Tea Party, but that seems unlikely given the gerrymandering that the GOP has done.
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
That is what John Roberts did.
