ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
They're gonna sign someone right? They almost have to.
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The Trent Richardson Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
I liked him as a rook, didn't in year two.
The two seasons couldn't be more different and I'm at a loss trying to find the norm and what to expect.
I have seen sophomore slumps that didn't matter in year three and I've seen college stars that only seemed to do well their rookie year. Still totally lost trying to decipher which guy Trent is.
One of the things about him in college and him as a rookie was you could see the obvious talent and envision a bright future for him. In year two he looked like...yuck.
He oozes with talent and everyone knows it. If he were to play great in preseason, I can about guarantee he shoots up FF draft boards. This is not some young player that may or may not be good enough to play-he certainly belongs in the NFL, the Q is more about production and then everyone being burned last year due to the lack of production.
There is absolutely a big difference in how FF folks react to known big talent players and that player 5th on the depth chart from some small school that soandso wrote could be a good player someday.
Mark Ingram never had 100 yards, has been barely used in NO (some would say with reason) but the FF world suddenly jumped up when he ran for 145 against the Cowboys last year. Oh he got about that much for the rest of the season, but for one week he enticed the FF world again.
Let's see how Richardson does in preseason. Personally, I have to, before I rank him. Today i think he could be my 100th ranked RB or my 10th and could make an argument toward either extreme
The two seasons couldn't be more different and I'm at a loss trying to find the norm and what to expect.
I have seen sophomore slumps that didn't matter in year three and I've seen college stars that only seemed to do well their rookie year. Still totally lost trying to decipher which guy Trent is.
One of the things about him in college and him as a rookie was you could see the obvious talent and envision a bright future for him. In year two he looked like...yuck.
He oozes with talent and everyone knows it. If he were to play great in preseason, I can about guarantee he shoots up FF draft boards. This is not some young player that may or may not be good enough to play-he certainly belongs in the NFL, the Q is more about production and then everyone being burned last year due to the lack of production.
There is absolutely a big difference in how FF folks react to known big talent players and that player 5th on the depth chart from some small school that soandso wrote could be a good player someday.
Mark Ingram never had 100 yards, has been barely used in NO (some would say with reason) but the FF world suddenly jumped up when he ran for 145 against the Cowboys last year. Oh he got about that much for the rest of the season, but for one week he enticed the FF world again.
Let's see how Richardson does in preseason. Personally, I have to, before I rank him. Today i think he could be my 100th ranked RB or my 10th and could make an argument toward either extreme
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I have him. I will not be getting any offers for him. I have to stick with him and hope for a turn around he has not yet given me reason to believe will come. I'm going to carry him on my roster but will not be starting him until he shows me something. A sad state of affairs given I used a #1 overall pick on him. I don't believe, but I watch.
JackReacher
Footballguy
I get plenty of offers for him. Usually second rounders.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Will they have as much confidence in Trent as they did in last year's playoffs?
And Bradshaw is a last round flyer, guy. No one is hitching any wagons to RB71 in the 17th round. Any production at all out of a player taken that late is a win, even if he only lasts a few weeks. He's a good lottery ticket because he's proven to be a really solid NFL RB, and he's competing with Richardson, who is possibly the worst RB on any NFL roster.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Link to the "many others?" Every dynasty league I'm in the dude has been on and off waivers this offseason. His redraft ADP is RB71. People are taking as a flyer because Richardson runs like an 80 year old woman with a walker. That's it.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
JackReacher
Footballguy
If you offered him up for a second rounder, you'd get offers
cstu
Footballguy
Had my eye on him for awhile but never thought he'd get a chance. Looks Stevan Ridley-ish to me.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
People really seem to struggle with conflating athletic ability and talent at the RB spot. It's very obvious that there is a lot more to being a successful RB than just having a great combination of measurables. Richardson has desirable measurables for sure. But that doesn't necessarily equate to RB success in the NFL, and some extremely prolific RBs in NFL history have had measurables that were less than top notch. Right now there probably isn't a better example of that conflation in the league than Richardson.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Against NE:
Will they have as much confidence in Trent as they did in last year's playoffs?
And Bradshaw is a last round flyer, guy. No one is hitching any wagons to RB71 in the 17th round. Any production at all out of a player taken that late is a win, even if he only lasts a few weeks. He's a good lottery ticket because he's proven to be a really solid NFL RB, and he's competing with Richardson, who is possibly the worst RB on any NFL roster.
Colts = 65 offensive plays
Brown = 34 plays (52%)
TRich = 25 plays (38%)
They must've trusted him to do something, because he still was in the game quite a bit, even if he didn't get a lot of touches.
http://www.nflgsis.com/2013/Post/02/56163/Gamebook.pdf
So, basically he spelled Brown and pass protected. That is all they trusted him to do in the do or die game. Please stop posting about 2013, it doesn't matter anymore. Brown had 18 touches to Richardson's 3 touches (for 1 yard I might add). This was game #16 with the Colts for TRich and one of the reasons I don't like him at his price (he will most likely be gone in the 3rd/4th with one good play in pre-season. That is too rich for me knowing that in games #15 and #16 (playbook/mid season trade shouldn't be excuses at that point) with the season on in both games he got 4 total touches.Against NE:
Will they have as much confidence in Trent as they did in last year's playoffs?
And Bradshaw is a last round flyer, guy. No one is hitching any wagons to RB71 in the 17th round. Any production at all out of a player taken that late is a win, even if he only lasts a few weeks. He's a good lottery ticket because he's proven to be a really solid NFL RB, and he's competing with Richardson, who is possibly the worst RB on any NFL roster.
Colts = 65 offensive plays
Brown = 34 plays (52%)
TRich = 25 plays (38%)
They must've trusted him to do something, because he still was in the game quite a bit, even if he didn't get a lot of touches.
http://www.nflgsis.com/2013/Post/02/56163/Gamebook.pdf
Personally, I think 2014 is the Andrew Luck show and part of the reason they let Brown go. If TRich is a good enough pass blocker, then he will play. With the WRs/TEs of Hilton, Nicks, Fleener, Allen, Wayne, Rogers, Moncrief, etc., I think the pass offense is going to take the forefront and while some say a great pass offense helps open the running game, the stats in the Lacy/Peterson thread showed that most of the time, the top 10 RBs come from worse pass offenses.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
You think his workload showed how good he was? His ypc was well into substandard range. He got by on the workload, not because he was running so well.
Why do you think CLE traded him away? They gave up a bunch in 1st round draft position in the trade for a RB who they thought was productive enough to set the table on O? Why? Because they really wanted to help IND out? I can't think of a time when a team traded a top 5 draft pick just a couple of games into his sophomore year.
I'm guessing CLE was hoping to see some improvement on how mediocre he was the previous year, waited until regular season games started and still saw nothing more, and traded him while he still had some kind of 1st round value, and IND bit full on the baited hook.
Of course this has been discussed at length, but the Richardson owners just can't come to grips with the only rational reason for what CLE did.
georg013
Footballguy
Yeah, because the Browns are known for making fantastic decisions! Or is it selective? Riding Trent until the wheels fall off! Dont care about the screaming haters banging on the windows. Nothing more than speedbumps. Rolling the windows up. The rear view mirrors have been removed from this vessel.
12punch
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Yeah, make that the excuse. Name me once in NFL history that this kind of deal went down. I can't think of one. CLE may have a modern history of futility, but teams do not make these kinds of deals - for good reason. No matter what state they are in.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Someone made an ignorant statement, so I posted a rebuttal. Chill out.So, basically he spelled Brown and pass protected. That is all they trusted him to do in the do or die game. Please stop posting about 2013, it doesn't matter anymore. Brown had 18 touches to Richardson's 3 touches (for 1 yard I might add). This was game #16 with the Colts for TRich and one of the reasons I don't like him at his price (he will most likely be gone in the 3rd/4th with one good play in pre-season. That is too rich for me knowing that in games #15 and #16 (playbook/mid season trade shouldn't be excuses at that point) with the season on in both games he got 4 total touches.Personally, I think 2014 is the Andrew Luck show and part of the reason they let Brown go. If TRich is a good enough pass blocker, then he will play. With the WRs/TEs of Hilton, Nicks, Fleener, Allen, Wayne, Rogers, Moncrief, etc., I think the pass offense is going to take the forefront and while some say a great pass offense helps open the running game, the stats in the Lacy/Peterson thread showed that most of the time, the top 10 RBs come from worse pass offenses.Against NE:
And Bradshaw is a last round flyer, guy. No one is hitching any wagons to RB71 in the 17th round. Any production at all out of a player taken that late is a win, even if he only lasts a few weeks. He's a good lottery ticket because he's proven to be a really solid NFL RB, and he's competing with Richardson, who is possibly the worst RB on any NFL roster.
Colts = 65 offensive plays
Brown = 34 plays (52%)
TRich = 25 plays (38%)
They must've trusted him to do something, because he still was in the game quite a bit, even if he didn't get a lot of touches.
http://www.nflgsis.com/2013/Post/02/56163/Gamebook.pdf
bostonfred
Footballguy
Who posted in: Trent Richardson to Colts for a 1st r...
Member name Posts
cstu 120
Coeur de Lion 105
Jrodicus 100
MoveToSkypager 88
ghostguy123 80
Kool-Aid Larry 70
Raider Nation 61
stbugs 56
EBF 47
werdnoynek 46
duaneok66 38
811 of the 3019 posts are from the top ten posters. Over a quarter of all the posts in a 61 page thread. 493 are from the top five posters. That's 10 pages of the same opinion posted again, and again, and again. It's impossible to discuss him in this forum without the same handful of posters jumping in and dominating the conversation by repeating their low regard for him as a player. We had a new thread on Richardson, and I tried to put some work into a pros and cons post about him, but it was a waste of effort because these guys swarmed in, said the same thing, and bumped this thread back up again because they didn't want to lose the record of them hating him before everyone else did. For whatever reason, they've decided that theirs is the only opinion about his 2014 prospects allowed on this forum.
Back when this forum was moderated, the thread would never have gotten to this point.
Member name Posts
cstu 120
Coeur de Lion 105
Jrodicus 100
MoveToSkypager 88
ghostguy123 80
Kool-Aid Larry 70
Raider Nation 61
stbugs 56
EBF 47
werdnoynek 46
duaneok66 38
811 of the 3019 posts are from the top ten posters. Over a quarter of all the posts in a 61 page thread. 493 are from the top five posters. That's 10 pages of the same opinion posted again, and again, and again. It's impossible to discuss him in this forum without the same handful of posters jumping in and dominating the conversation by repeating their low regard for him as a player. We had a new thread on Richardson, and I tried to put some work into a pros and cons post about him, but it was a waste of effort because these guys swarmed in, said the same thing, and bumped this thread back up again because they didn't want to lose the record of them hating him before everyone else did. For whatever reason, they've decided that theirs is the only opinion about his 2014 prospects allowed on this forum.
Back when this forum was moderated, the thread would never have gotten to this point.
hxperson
Footballguy
That's exactly the point I was trying to make earlier with Couer. These haters trip over themselves to be the first ones to refute any new information on TRich by rehashing the same old points they've made over and over again in this thread and others.
If you want to add anything to this thread, talk about the new information. For example, make an argument for why a separated AC joint couldn't have affected his play given some of the runs he made in weeks 16 or 17. If you just come in the same old points, i.e. there are always excuses for Richardson or his stats say it all, well we've heard it all before and it just diminishes your argument and your credibility.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You see the same stuff in the David Wilson and Christine Michael threads. It is one thing to cross a guy off your draft board, another to spend your days with long winded posts player hating.
There will always be some people who take on a position and defend it in discussions like this, especially sports discussions.
But the board is at its best when discussing all aspects of a situation rather than being about trying to prove oneself right, or trying to make others accept a given position. Few situations in football are so cut and dry there isn't something to be gained from considering other perspectives.
Now let's please move this back towards talking about football again.
But the board is at its best when discussing all aspects of a situation rather than being about trying to prove oneself right, or trying to make others accept a given position. Few situations in football are so cut and dry there isn't something to be gained from considering other perspectives.
Now let's please move this back towards talking about football again.
Bradshaw is a steal at his current ADP....I just don't envision a scenario where Bradshaw doesn't garner some starts this year and has stretches of fantasy usefulness.
If you can get Richardson in the 5th or 6th and then get Bradshaw like in the 10th....on the aggregate you might have a very decent RB2 or at least an RB3.
If you can get Richardson in the 5th or 6th and then get Bradshaw like in the 10th....on the aggregate you might have a very decent RB2 or at least an RB3.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/28/chris-rainey-cut-for-disciplinary-reasons-not-football-reasons/
There is only one explanation: TRich is knocking off all those who might get in his way
cstu
Footballguy
Agreed. I don't think I will draft him because with Ballard out, I think his stock will be too high for a guy who is a risk to not be in your lineup for non-injury reasons. One good run in pre-season and he will end up getting drafted in the 3rd. I'll take someone like Alfred Morris or a solid WR at that point. Seeing those links getting posted again and again trying to justify the second worst performance by a RB in 2013 (the worst was street FA/no training camp/not going to play in 2014 McGahee). I'm done now as well. I guess it shouldn't annoy me, but justifying that he was "actually" really good in 2013 isn't worth debunking anymore.Dr. Octopus said:
Todem
Footballguy
Are people really trying to do that here? Come on. I own him in one dynasty league and he stunk to high heaven last year and is a total wait and see this year. I think this is it for him this season. He either pans out this season and shows he is a three down back capable of 1300 yards and 8-10 TD's or not. If he flames out with the Colts he will be as good as waiver wire fodder in short order.
How can anyone say with a straight face he was good last year. He was garbage, especially for a first round pick in just about every start-up draft and redraft last year. Oh my was he a bust. I think he has a ton of physical talent. But he went backwards in 2013.
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
I'd feel a lot better about his 2014 prospects if he didn't have a soft tissue issue. How do you get hurt before training camp even starts?
Todem
Footballguy
Most guys have sore hamstrings at the start of camp. The question will be is it a true strain? Or just typical soreness that comes with training camp and getting back into the swing of things.
Todem
Footballguy
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Jrodicus, on 12 Apr 2014 - 2:22 PM, said:Dr. Octopus said:
Jrodicus, on 02 Mar 2014 - 8:21 PM, said:
Jrodicus, on 02 Mar 2014 - 6:46 PM, said:
Somehow trying to explain the potential reasons for his poor performance (other than just saying "he sucks!111 lolz") and attempting to be a voice of reason saying that it may not be prudent to jump ship at the moment makes me one of his biggest defenders.
I've tried to dissect and understand the reasons for his poor YPC as much as almost anyone here. Anyone can look at macro data, decide they are an expert, and pass judgement.
But the problem with that is - what if he turns it around and had a good year? If he doesn't turn it around, then yeah, we can all agree that he's just not a good RB. If he does turn it around, then when wouldn't it be prudent to think that maybe the reasons (or "excuses" if you like) for his bad season were legit issues? If he has a good season, there will be many people here attributing it to the O-line, or the play calling, or the scheme, or understanding the play book; most won't simply say he magically became a good RB overnight.
As I've said many times, he may still flame out...but I think it's still too early to think that it is a foregone conclusion.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I am not sure. Even in Jrod's post above, he mentions that the Colts want to be run first and haven't been good at it. He thinks it isn't as much hype (it really isn't) as those links trying to show that it was all the OL's issue and that he had the #2 (IIRC) yards after contact. That said, it still hides the fact that it has been shown many times that the other Colt's RBs were better in yards per carry (in more carries than TRich) than any other team in the NFL except the Eagles. That is where I kept jumping in, comments like that try to deflect that TRich was the problem and you could prove that the other Colt's RBs, not exactly world beaters, were better in almost every scenario.
Personally, I disagree with his assessment. I think the Colts are going to turn the page and let Luck loose this year. I think they are going to become pass first and thus the Colt's RBs won't be as potentially valuable as some of his supporters think. I think they think that he can improve and become the volume guy he was in Cleveland and I think that he won't get that opportunity.
Again, that doesn't dismiss the fact that many posts in this thread were absolutely trying to say that he was "good" and it wasn't really his fault.
True, but I agree with Clifford that it still isn't a good sign. We got lots of coach speak/TRich speak in the off season of him realizing what he has to do and this isn't a good start to getting there. I honestly didn't like the answers he gave because in at least one of them he mentioned that while he had to do better, he still seemed to blame the 8/9 men fronts. I think it is pretty clear in his 4 total touches in the post season that Luck was the guy defenses keyed on, not TRich. I don't know if he was humbled enough to dig deep and just admin he sucked and he, only he, has to be the guy that turns it around.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
You might have to move those expectations up to rounds 4 and 5 respectively. On the other hand Bradshaw should last longer than round 10 IMHO.
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