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They gotta do something about the reffing ?! (1 Viewer)

It's still not the same level of prep as if you were a full time employee. 

They also get a very long off-season. Most refs are done by January and a few hold on until the SB. Then it's six months with maybe the occasional training day (or zoom call).

Considering the money at stake that is simply inadequate. With legalized gambling it is more important than ever to bring all refs in-house.
How many times do you see mini camp and training camp videos and there are officials at all the practices, etc...this attitude of they don’t do anything except on Sundays is so lazy and uneducated .....wish more fans did a little digging into how much they prepare and what they have had to do to even make it to this level....

 
I agree.   The last PI call on Dallas was PI.  Even if he turned around the defender still made contact before the ball.   It was a game changing call but a correct call.
This is a better way of saying what I tried to say earlier. Bottom line, the DB cannot impede the WR from catching the ball. For underthrown balls, this means they need to be aware of the location of the ball (turning to see it) and timing your move toward the WR at the time of the ball arriving. Is this extremely difficult? Of course it is and that is why the good DBs are paid handsomely for this skill.

In the DAL/LV game Brown did not know where the underthrown ball was. When the WR made the move back toward the ball, Brown made contact ... easy flag.

There were a dozen more egregious calls in the three games yesterday. The worst IMO was the center head bob in that same game.

 
How many times do you see mini camp and training camp videos and there are officials at all the practices, etc...this attitude of they don’t do anything except on Sundays is so lazy and uneducated .....wish more fans did a little digging into how much they prepare and what they have had to do to even make it to this level....
And yet they still suck

 
How many times do you see mini camp and training camp videos and there are officials at all the practices, etc...this attitude of they don’t do anything except on Sundays is so lazy and uneducated .....wish more fans did a little digging into how much they prepare and what they have had to do to even make it to this level....
I never said they don't do anything except on Sunday. More practice means better results that's the point.

 
The Show said:
This is becoming unwatchable. 3rd and 18….. hmmm let’s just heave it up and draw a phantom flag. 


Not a refs problem its a rule problem and a lot of CYAs instead of fixing real issues. I'm friends with a few local players and one I help with his kids camp program when he comes home in June where he has a lot of former NFL teammates and ex players and coaches etc. Testeverde was the big cat a few yrs ago, met Derrick Brooks, Trent Dilfer, Wayne Cherbet etc. Know a few current players too who help this program along with others. My Co workers so is also an NFL assistant coach. 

The main problem is the way the NFL wants certain rules called or looked at. The targeting rules? If they really cared I've heard players say the NFL could advance in better equipment for players. It took the NFL to ok the new helmets that are suppose to help prevent more concussions a lot longer then it should've taken because the league #####footed around the issue not wanting to open the purse strings up. The NFL could show more concern on safety with better rules and opening their pockets for better equipment. Also for players dealing with issues retired better benefits and help. 

The NFL simple doesn't care. Most of their rules are CYA's so they don't get sued after the whole concussion issue. 

Thats just the safety rules. The NFL has way too many rules on certain things. Does anyone know what is a catch anymore? What about giving yourself up on the play? Where's the offensive pass interference calls? 

 
ghostguy123 said:
It's more of a rules problem.  Too many things to look 
This 1000%. PI is too subjective and too punitive. Blocking rules also need to be revised. If it is true that holding can be called on every play then the holding rule needs to be revised. 

 
The Show said:
“The Drive killer” - the phantom offensive holding call when the offence is moving along nicely that completely kills their drive and momentum. 
Yep, and notice these calls in these specific situations are never shown on camera. That should be a requirement to all called penalties IMO, if the league was interested in transparency (which of course we all know they aren’t).

 
Some interesting takes and suggestions here. I find it fascinating how we all can watch these same officiated plays and have such different opinions on the outcome. I don’t mean this sarcastically either. 
 

I think one thing that could help some in my mind is if the refs had some sort of unwritten rule to “let the players play” nearing the ends of games. A comparison would be overtimes in NHL playoffs where the refs eat their whistles more often then in the first period. 
 

Any way we dice it something needs to be done. I think any fan of this game would prefer a game with a lot less flags and better flow unless it’s blatantly obvious like the New Orleans Tommy Lee Lewis PI play a few years back that would’ve sent the Saints to the super bowl (ironically this play was not called).
 

 
I think one thing that could help some in my mind is if the refs had some sort of unwritten rule to “let the players play” nearing the ends of games. A comparison would be overtimes in NHL playoffs where the refs eat their whistles more often then in the first period. 


I absolutely hate this school of thought.  You play the game and you make the calls.  Why should anything change depending on what point of the game you're in?  A foul is a foul, a penalty is a penalty.  To call it differently for any reason just makes it all worse.

 
The inconsistency of subjective calls, like roughing the passer or pass interference, is what is glaringly bad right now.  Of course, every official is going to call it a bit different, but the discrepancy is too awful more often than not.  Go back to the TEN/NO where the Saints made a huge red zone INT that was nullified to do a roughing call on NO when Tannehill was barely even touched. Meanwhile, the Bears had a game a few weeks back where Fields got the crap knocked out of him a couple times...and no flags.  It's just a bad look.  If anyone can watch the below and defend that flag, you are either blind or just an apologist for all officials. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5k5m9MLMvA

 
Go back and read what you posted...#sidehustle....... :rolleyes: .....
It is a side hustle. It is absolutely and unquestionably a side hustle.

They have full time jobs. What is your issue with it being a side hustle? Is it that it that they may only put 4 1/2 days into their primary job during the season instead of 6? Is anyone better at their job if they spend 36+ hours per week doing an entirely different job?

 Full time referees would be more prepared. How is that even a question?

Then quit posting stupid uneducated comments....
There is no need for that kind of talk.

 
I absolutely hate this school of thought.  You play the game and you make the calls.  Why should anything change depending on what point of the game you're in?  A foul is a foul, a penalty is a penalty.  To call it differently for any reason just makes it all worse.
Same thing goes for the playoffs.  Call it the same, consistently, all game and all year.

I also hate that the clock rules change depending on what part of the game you're in.  That's stupid.  And get rid of the dumb 10 second run off.

 
How many PI calls were overturned the year they were reviewable?  One?  Four?  It was clear that it was very difficult to come up with indisputable evidence they way they can for ball hitting the ground, stepping out of bounds, etc. and that ultimately judgment calls were best made on the field.
 

consistency is the problem.  That Tony corrente bears Steelers game was a ####### travesty.

 
IMO the biggest problems are:

the rules are way too complex. Simplify them and try to limit judgement calls as much as possible.

A lot of rules have been implemented for the safety of the players. This makes it a tougher game to call because refs are watching the games live and trying to determine head-to-head or roughing the passer at real time speed.  Nothing you can do about this IMO, player safety is paramount.

Everyone has large HD television and there are multiple camera angles and slow motion/stop action IR on every close play.  The refs don’t have this luxury and many of the calls people complain about now weren’t viewable in the past.

There are truly horrendous calls but for the most part I think they do an okay job.  I’ll complain when one goes against the team I’m rooting for of course but aside from simplifying /clarifying some of the rules I’m not sure there is much that can be done.

 
Even though I am for instant replay, one of the biggest issues with refs today is they know their mistakes for the most part will be corrected by the replay, so they have morphed into bad refs because of instant replay. They just aren't as good as refs of yesteryear.   

I do believe that some of the calls that aren't reviewable should be.

 
These past few weeks especially have been pathetic. I can barely watch a game live, its getting close to being like the NBA where its basically unwatchable. The Dallas/Vegas game was basically a battle between the officials more than anything the 2 teams did. It was disgusting. So many BS penalties.

Nothing bugs me more than the offense getting bailed out, by a QB throwing a crappy pass that the WR can't get to, but because its so poorly thrown, the defender hits(or runs into) the WR, and its a spot foul. Those should be no-calls 100% of the time. PI in general should probably be called at least 50% less than it is. 

 
Nothing bugs me more than the offense getting bailed out, by a QB throwing a crappy pass that the WR can't get to, but because its so poorly thrown, the defender hits(or runs into) the WR, and its a spot foul. Those should be no-calls 100% of the time. PI in general should probably be called at least 50% less than it is. 
I've always argued this. If the WR who is at a full sprint suddenly stops dead because a ball is 5 yards underthrown, the offense doesnt deserve a flag.

 
These past few weeks especially have been pathetic. I can barely watch a game live, its getting close to being like the NBA where its basically unwatchable. The Dallas/Vegas game was basically a battle between the officials more than anything the 2 teams did. It was disgusting. So many BS penalties.

Nothing bugs me more than the offense getting bailed out, by a QB throwing a crappy pass that the WR can't get to, but because its so poorly thrown, the defender hits(or runs into) the WR, and its a spot foul. Those should be no-calls 100% of the time. PI in general should probably be called at least 50% less than it is. 
So if they don't call that penalty, the crappy CB who isn't skilled enough to turn his head gets bailed out by a no-call, even though there was contact with the WR before the ball got there. 

In the main play in question, which was the 3rd and 18, the call was 100% correct.

 
My biggest complaint and grief is the personal foul calls on the late hits on the QB, they have got to come up with a better plan. They can't stop the game for long periods but there needs to be another set of Refs that can see the replay quickly and tell the Ref on the field to overturn his call. We see replays all the time where clearly and quickly I might add you can see that no actual foul was being committed.

-You can't hit the QB after he throws the ball, I get it. So then let's go all the way and put a special color jersey on the QB and if he gets touched by a DLineman or wears a set of flags not just his hips but on his shoulders and maybe as many as 10-12 so the DL has plenty of places they can rip one off and it's a sack, plain and simple. 

We can still abuse the Christian McCaffreys of the world at RB but these precious QBs need special protection and the owner's need to protect their investment so just go all the way and stop this charade. It's unwatchable and you cringe every time a DL/LB blitzing DB pops the QB even as they are in motion you think they are going to be flagged when they are simultaneously hit. 

 
My biggest complaint and grief is the personal foul calls on the late hits on the QB, they have got to come up with a better plan. They can't stop the game for long periods but there needs to be another set of Refs that can see the replay quickly and tell the Ref on the field to overturn his call. We see replays all the time where clearly and quickly I might add you can see that no actual foul was being committed.

-You can't hit the QB after he throws the ball, I get it. So then let's go all the way and put a special color jersey on the QB and if he gets touched by a DLineman or wears a set of flags not just his hips but on his shoulders and maybe as many as 10-12 so the DL has plenty of places they can rip one off and it's a sack, plain and simple. 

We can still abuse the Christian McCaffreys of the world at RB but these precious QBs need special protection and the owner's need to protect their investment so just go all the way and stop this charade. It's unwatchable and you cringe every time a DL/LB blitzing DB pops the QB even as they are in motion you think they are going to be flagged when they are simultaneously hit. 
Don't worry, because in a few years it will be the NFFL anyway.

 
My biggest complaint and grief is the personal foul calls on the late hits on the QB, they have got to come up with a better plan. They can't stop the game for long periods but there needs to be another set of Refs that can see the replay quickly and tell the Ref on the field to overturn his call. We see replays all the time where clearly and quickly I might add you can see that no actual foul was being committed.

-You can't hit the QB after he throws the ball, I get it. So then let's go all the way and put a special color jersey on the QB and if he gets touched by a DLineman or wears a set of flags not just his hips but on his shoulders and maybe as many as 10-12 so the DL has plenty of places they can rip one off and it's a sack, plain and simple. 

We can still abuse the Christian McCaffreys of the world at RB but these precious QBs need special protection and the owner's need to protect their investment so just go all the way and stop this charade. It's unwatchable and you cringe every time a DL/LB blitzing DB pops the QB even as they are in motion you think they are going to be flagged when they are simultaneously hit. 


 I agree the hits on the QB thing has gone completely overboard....but in this league it is hard enough to find 32 competent QB's....let alone when you get into the 33-64 range...the NFL is going to do everything they can to prevent us from having to watch Mason Rudolph vs. Tim Boyle.....

 
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I agree the hits on the QB thing has gone completely overboard....but in this league it is hard enough to find 32 competent QB's....let alone when you get into the 32-64 range...the NFL is going to do everything they can to prevent us from having to watch Mason Rudolph vs. Tim Boyle.....
Maybe if they reverse some of the rules that favor passing over defenses, teams could get back to establishing dominant running games and be less reliant on QBs.  

I grew up a WR and always loved the passing game, but it's gotten to the point now where I appreciate the beauty of a well-executed running game.

 
Even though I am for instant replay, one of the biggest issues with refs today is they know their mistakes for the most part will be corrected by the replay, so they have morphed into bad refs because of instant replay. They just aren't as good as refs of yesteryear.   

I do believe that some of the calls that aren't reviewable should be.
This is kind of like driving now with all the sensors for backing up and getting close to stuff.  I catch myself not paying as much attention because the car will let me know when to stop.  It really got bad a few years ago when one car had it and one didn't.  If I drove the one that had it a few days in a row going back to the one that didn't I would have to remind myself to pay attention.  

 
How many PI calls were overturned the year they were reviewable?  One?  Four?  It was clear that it was very difficult to come up with indisputable evidence they way they can for ball hitting the ground, stepping out of bounds, etc. and that ultimately judgment calls were best made on the field.
 

consistency is the problem.  That Tony corrente bears Steelers game was a ####### travesty.
I think that had more to do with the way the NFL wanted to show that it wasn't needed.  The instruction was only "obvious" calls and to error on the side of keeping the game call.  Nobody want to go against that so 95% of the time the call stood.  

I think some of the comments have it right.  For holding.....let teams hold.  If it's legal for everyone then you have to adjust and figure out to get out of it.  It will lead to more offense (which everyone seems to want) and will do away with these inconsistent calls.  I am sure you can adjust and have the call for something like tackling a guy that is already by you.  I am sure they can figure out some egregious aspects to keep but the general grabbing/clenching etc is fine.

 
In today's NFL, I would heave it up for grabs every time on 3rd & 10+... 1) Incomplete = punt, 2) INT = good as a punt, 3) completion = completion, 4) PI = good as a completion

I think about this when a 3rd and forever comes up and the announcers jokingly say "I doubt even the great so 'n' so has a play on his sheet for this" ... but maybe they should... call for the purposely under-thrown bomb that gets PI calls the majority of the time. Has to be easier (or higher pct) than actually trying to complete the pass.

 
In today's NFL, I would heave it up for grabs every time on 3rd & 10+... 1) Incomplete = punt, 2) INT = good as a punt, 3) completion = completion, 4) PI = good as a completion

I think about this when a 3rd and forever comes up and the announcers jokingly say "I doubt even the great so 'n' so has a play on his sheet for this" ... but maybe they should... call for the purposely under-thrown bomb that gets PI calls the majority of the time. Has to be easier (or higher pct) than actually trying to complete the pass.
They don't try this very much against the better CBs because they have good enough ball skills to turn their head. The DBs with no ball skills get the bulk of these penalties (as they should if they make contact with the WR) because they don't turn their head and look for the ball. If they turn their head and make a play on the ball they rarely call PI even if there is contact.

 
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IMO the biggest problems are:

the rules are way too complex. Simplify them and try to limit judgement calls as much as possible.

A lot of rules have been implemented for the safety of the players. This makes it a tougher game to call because refs are watching the games live and trying to determine head-to-head or roughing the passer at real time speed.  Nothing you can do about this IMO, player safety is paramount.

Everyone has large HD television and there are multiple camera angles and slow motion/stop action IR on every close play.  The refs don’t have this luxury and many of the calls people complain about now weren’t viewable in the past.

There are truly horrendous calls but for the most part I think they do an okay job.  I’ll complain when one goes against the team I’m rooting for of course but aside from simplifying /clarifying some of the rules I’m not sure there is much that can be done.


Came here to say exactly THIS.

The rulebook is far, far, far too complex and subjective. The #1 problem isn't the refs, its the NFL rules committee and competition committees.

In 2020 they drastically (and intentionally) reduced holding penalties... and offense exploded. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30003263/how-nfl-manipulating-scoring-2020-fewer-holding-calls-faster-games-way-more-offense

Some analyst produced a graph (which I can't find) of holding penalties called vs. points scored. Of course, in 2020 holding penalties dropped and scoring went up. But this year they've gone to calling holding penalties at a very high rate and scoring has dropped off. 

Ultimately, the rule book is far too complex and subjective. Every year new rules and "emphasis" gets added. This isn't just player safety rules (although that's a lot of them). And given that the competition committee, with many coaches on it, decided to add even more penalties with taunting I don't have high hopes. 

As a fan, fewer penalties = more fun. But the incentive of owners and coaches, who live football everyday, isn't the same. Penalties and "points of emphasis" give them more control over the game. 

 
most won't take the time....but some good stuff here...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/12/04/peter-king-spends-week-with-nfl-refs

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/12/06/peter-king-week-with-officiating-crew-part-three

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-it-takes-to-be-an-nfl-referee-football-sunday-roger-goodell-tom-brady-2018-9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g84Avk_47K8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gqel8dpKxA

NFL refs have worked their way up (in a very thankless profession)... from Pop Warner on saturday mornings, to middle school, to high school, to juco, to college....and then finally to the "show"....they have reffed hundreds to thousands of games before ever getting to the show....have taken more tests then you can count....have seen more plays then you can ever imagine (think you see some weird stuff in a NFL game)....try reffing a 7th grade middle school game...these guys prepare all year long, let alone all week long during the season....do they still get things wrong or miss calls....you bet....from your sofa it's real easy to say these guys are terrible or they suck.....most of you sofa referees never miss a call....

 
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most won't take the time....but some good stuff here...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/12/04/peter-king-spends-week-with-nfl-refs

https://www.si.com/nfl/2013/12/06/peter-king-week-with-officiating-crew-part-three

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-it-takes-to-be-an-nfl-referee-football-sunday-roger-goodell-tom-brady-2018-9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g84Avk_47K8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gqel8dpKxA

NFL refs have worked there way up (in a very thankless profession)... from Pop Warner on saturday mornings, to middle school, to high school, to juco, to college....and then finally to the "show"....they have reffed hundreds to thousands of games before ever getting to the show....have taken more tests then you can count....have seen more plays then you can ever imagine (think you see some weird stuff in a NFL game)....try reffing a 7th grade middle school game...these guys prepare all year long, let alone all week long during the season....do they still get things wrong or miss calls....you bet....from your sofa it's real easy to say these guys are terrible or they suck.....most of you sofa referees never miss a call....
I get it, but you can't deny they make more bad calls than before instant replay because they have instant replay as a crutch.   Now a lot of people have only known instant replay and I understand they wouldn't have an opinion on that.

 
I get it, but you can't deny they make more bad calls than before instant replay because they have instant replay as a crutch.   Now a lot of people have only known instant replay and I understand they wouldn't have an opinion on that.
no doubt they are erroring on the safe side in two situations.....

1. anything that could possibly sniff being a scoring play....they are going to say they scored, because they know it can then be reviewed

2. anything that could sniff being a turnover....same as #1

they are going to let both of those play out.....which, let's be honest....they should since they can be fixed by replay and are such huge plays in a game...and coaches still have the red flag for anything else they don't like outside those two things...

I'd say the officiating has gotten better than in the past....todays' officials are putting way more time into the preparation and film study/evaluation/attending training camps/mini camps/positioning on plays/tests.... then has ever happened before.....they get "graded" on every single play of every game...but along those same lines, social media, highlight shows, zoom cameras, 30 different slo motion zoom camera angles covering a game....(different then when you only had a couple far way looks during a game) are also happening like they didn't before....so "missed" calls back in the day couldn't be analyzed immediately over and over again from every angle...there weren't as many "complaints" or griping because there wasn't instant proof they missed it and it wasn't being analyzed from every angle in super slo mo....so teams had to just roll with what was called on the field and live with it...now the whole stadium on a jumbo tron gets to see every play....so it gets amped up immediately...

there is a good side to being able to see every play from every angle and in slo motion....but there is also a downside, and only the officials suffer in the downside....the are expected to get every call/no call right, so they don't get praised when they get it right....only told they suck when they get it wrong.....you know, it's their job, they are supposed to be perfect at it...but they make mistakes just like players and coaches.....officials have always said "we will call a perfect game when players and coaches play and coach a perfect game"....probably not gonna happen....

 
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no doubt they are erroring on the safe side in two situations.....

1. anything that could possibly sniff being a scoring play....they are going to say they scored, because they know it can then be reviewed

2. anything that could sniff being a turnover....same as #1

they are going to let both of those play out.....which, let's be honest....they should since they can be fixed by replay and are such huge plays in a game...and coaches still have the red flag for anything else they don't like outside those two things...
You do realize that it can be overturned either way?  Might as well try to make the right call, lol.  So no, I do not think today's refs are better than those from the 70s or 80s and instant replay has given them a crutch, so they miss more calls.

 
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Yes, and that goes both ways too, no matter what the call is.  I will argue they should try and make the right call every time, but we know that isn't the case since the replay has degraded the officiating IMO.
they would like to keep the coach from having to use a challenge on those two....so if they let those two play out (ie: call it a score/turnover)...then it doesn't have to be challenged by the coach since it is automatically reviewed

 
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they would like to keep the coach from having to use a challenge....so if they let those two play out (ie: call it a score/turnover)...then it doesn't have to be challenged by the coach since it is automatically reviewed
Turnovers aren't automatically reviewed, so that doesn't help the team he screwed over by the bad call.  Neither are other plays that aren't scoring plays.  I will also argue that some of the plays that aren't reviewable should be.

Edited:  Maybe turnovers are automatically reviewed.  I believe at one time they weren't.

 
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Turnovers aren't automatically reviewed, so that doesn't help the team he screwed over by the bad call.  Neither are other plays that aren't scoring plays.  I will also argue that some of the plays that aren't reviewable should be.
pretty sure all turnovers are automatically reviewed.....

 
pretty sure all turnovers are automatically reviewed.....
I believe you are right.  At one time they weren't.  So, if they are automatically reviewed why would anyone need to use a challenge on them?  That still doesn't excuse other types of plays that aren't turnovers or scores.  They screw them up all the time, causing a coach to have to use a challenge.

 
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I believe you are right.  At one time they weren't.
right....so they often won't blow the play dead now if they think there is any chance it was a turnover.....they will go with it being a turnover...same with scoring play.....if its close at all, they will call it a score....

because if they don't call it a score....then it has to be challenged, and a team could be out of challenges or whatever...

 
right....so they often won't blow the play dead now if they think there is any chance it was a turnover.....they will go with it being a turnover...same with scoring play.....if its close at all, they will call it a score....

because if they don't call it a score....then it has to be challenged, and a team could be out of challenges or whatever...
What about the 99% of the other plays?  They screw them up all the time and I believe the reason is their relying on replay and that replay has lessoned the quality of officiating over time.

 

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