What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Tice on radio 10/01/03 (1 Viewer)

see what you want to see....keep on with that if its gotten you far in life.HERD
Click to expand...
I know the Onterrio debate is getting tiresome, but ofcourse I'm presenting my side the way I see it....just as you are....so I don't understand these come-backs lately.
 
I have no idea what Smith will or won't do this week or how he compares to Portis. What I find strange about the whole prediction thing is that with all the manuvering coaches do before games Tice would actually come right out and tell his opponents who they should be preparing for. It's like he's telling them not to even bother looking at tapes of Moe cause it's Onterrio they'll be playing against this week.....? hmmmmm.....Guess we will see what happens. I don't have either Moe or Onterrio but enjoy following the controversy over who will prevail - until we add Bennett back in the mix and then it starts all over again.

 
Hey Switz, what's your problem? Its like you have this venom for anyone who disagrees with you and you're completely unopen to changing your mind about anything because you're more interested in being "right" then being reasonable.
Click to expand...
Hey, if you're gonna jump on someone and then use incorrect statements to justify your actions, you deserve what you get.Go back to last year, I HAD (still have) Portis, and I was extremely dismayed when Shanahan said Gary was going to start again week 4. Go look at any stats and you'll see Portis was not the starter until week 5. And I was AT the Bills game where Gary got hurt and it's the only reaosn Portis came in.You seem to have a problem with me doing to you what you do to others.
 
This thread is so annoying after everybody in here keeps stating....my guy is better than your guy. Opinions are taking up about 80 percent of this thread. Facts and what's going to happen on Sunday are what I'm interested in. Is there anything PRINTED in a newspaper that talks about how Tice is going to distribute the ball? Is there an Onterrio or Moe quote regarding this situation of late? A fire trying to get sparked is what it sounds like. :bag:

 
Switz,I'm not trying to pick a fight, but reading some of your posts, it seems your more interested in being correct then being informed. That's your perogative, I guess, but it strikes me the point of the boards is to have as much info as possible so you/I can make good decisions and win our respective leagues. I've stated repeatedly that I think Onterrio is a good FF option for the middle part of the year. I'm sorry I don't have him on my roster. I've also stated repeatedly that Bennett - who despite the protests of many - is a Pro-Bowler who knows the offense and has experience covering Culpepper on blocks. I'm not assuming, reaching, or dreaming about the "rise of Onterrio" as many people are. However, once again, thats what these boards are for: to express opinion.I'm just saying that it looks like more often then not, you're interested in disproving people who disagree with you rather then taking their info, taking your own, and offering something useful. Like the thing about Bennett's weight. I was ten pounds off - sorry! Give me what I "deserve to get!" if it makes you feel right. But the point was that he has kept his weight in check and hasn't been sitting around eating ho-hos. I think thats what a reasonable person would have taken from that. But no, you had to find a thread to PROVE that I was factually off in a literal sense, apparently because it gives you some satisfaction. You have good things to contribute. You've made some phenomenal calls. I'm trying to tell you that you're a lot more useful and look a lot more dignified when you offer useful football insight as opposed to "I told you so!" or "You're wrong, I'm right!" pot-shots.HERD

 
How ironic. Herd jumps on Switz for being one-sided. Herd still thinks Bennett is gonna come back and put up 700 yards and six TD's THIS year. But clearly it is Switz being unreasonable. :rolleyes:

 
Hey Noonan, read my posts a little more thoroughly. I think Bennett is coming back for a 600/6 (I think thats what I said) but I've also stated repeatedly that Onterrio will have fantasy value until then. How is that one-sided? HERD

 
Like the thing about Bennett's weight. I was ten pounds off - sorry! Give me what I "deserve to get!" if it makes you feel right. But the point was that he has kept his weight in check and hasn't been sitting around eating ho-hos.
Click to expand...
but the purpose of your post with his weight was NOT to show he was still in shape, it was in response to a thread about Moe's size/weight and being a better goalline runner, in fact here's the post quoted:
OK, I've seen Moe play (I have him on my squad) and I've seen Onterrio and Bennett last year. It's undeniable to me that Moe is the least athletically talented one of the bunch, i.e. the slowest and the least ellusive. I like the point about Tice and where he comes from, and as a former lineman myself, I woudl tend to agree with that assesment of how he thinks. Yet, there is one thing I don't get. How does Moe Williams at 6-1 and 205 lbs. become this superstar short-distance specialist? How does he convert more short yardage plays than say, Jamal Lewis who undoubtedly has more power at 5-11 and 240. Bennett is 5-9 and 211, and O-Smith is 5-10 and 214. Basically, Moe is the lightest (and slowest) out of all of them? So, how does he do it? This also relates to how does he pass block so well compared to the others. He picks up blitzers like he's playing FB, and not HB.
Click to expand...
Your reply was not about what shape Bennett was in, it added nothing to the discussion. You merely had to point out where the poster (although correct) was wrong.The point is you keep "correcting" people without the facts, and all of your corrections are pointedly to make Bennett look better.I'm all for being informed. Bring the facts, if you got em.
 
Forget it. You're right, I'm wrong. I'm hanging my head in shame as we speak. I offer the olive branch and your not interested. Good luck this year.You can have the last word. HERD

 
If you pipe dreamers really think Moe will fade out then you are blind. Moe will always be a factor cause he knows the offense better. He blocks better and yes he's been running better. The only reason Smith is being invoved more is to save Moe from wearing down..
Click to expand...
So, if you have both MWilliams and OSmith on your roster (like me), who would you start this week?
 
Just for reference... Tice was asked to grade the rookies performance to date. When he started talking about Onterrio, he said "we have not even begun to scratch the surface of what he can do". He then talked about the TD run, saying it was great to get him his first TD, and then he said that this week would be his first 100 yds.No, it's not in print, and I don't see a link anywhere on KFAN... but I was listening to it on my way home from work and heard the whole segment.Now, as a lifelong Viking fan, AND an Onterrio owner, AND a Bennett owner... here's what I'm seeing. Tice simply DOES NOT hand rookies a job. They have to 1. show that they have the all around game, and 2. beat out anybody in front of them. Tice will not give a player a shot just because he has superior talent.That said, Tice has always spoken positively about Onterrio's prospects. He has always hedged his comments with saying Smith needs to learn the rest of the game before he's ready (specially blocking). There were a few comments before last weeks game from Onterrio I liked... things like he wanted to get in there in passing situations to show the coaches he could pick up a blitz. Those comments lead me to believe Onterrio has "gotten the message". IF he does well in the situation where he is not running the ball, I think Smith will get more and more time on the field.However... I've yet to see Tice just hand over a job to a rookie. He has ALWAYS worked them in slowly. So, I think Onterrio will see 10-15 carries, providing he doesn't miss a block or fumble or some other stupid play. But Moe will still get his... and if Smith does mess up, Moe will see a lot more.For fantasy guys, it sucks. Start Smith if you believe he will not mess up. But I'd stay away if you have better options... he just hasn't earned 100% trust yet, IMO. Which I think means he will not be allowed a mistake.

 
FWIW I'm benching Moe & starting Pittman this week against Indy (1pt/rec) also benching Eddie George against my Pats, but that could change.

 
FWIW I'm benching Moe & starting Pittman this week against Indy (1pt/rec) also benching Eddie George against my Pats, but that could change.
Click to expand...
Cut Eddie George. It is my personal belief that he went into the witness protection program and that the Titans have been dressing Curtis Enis in George's #27 since the 2002 season.
 
For all those who say O. Smith will be the next Clinton Portis are forgetting one, very important thing.Clinton Portis is a vastly superior RB than Onterrio Smith, did some of you not realize that?

 
For all those who say O. Smith will be the next Clinton Portis are forgetting one, very important thing.Clinton Portis is a vastly superior RB than Onterrio Smith, did some of you not realize that?
Click to expand...
That sounds similar to alot of replies people heard when saying Portis could be like pre-injury Edge.
 
I like the way Tice is handling Onterrio with the don't give him anything and make him earn everything kind of approach. It will make Onterrio a better player and really push him to take his talent and go further with it. This whole thing sucks for us fantasy guys seeing this RBBC, but if I were a Viks fan I'd be thrilled to have such a backfield as they do. Add in a healthy Bennett and if the O-line can stay healthy, they will be a tough running team for a while.My view of this whole thing is that Tice does not want Moe to be getting the ball 20+ times a game, like he has said before, and doesn't want to wear him out and knows that he is an important part of their winning. Along with that I'm sure he doesn't want Bennett to have to rush back in either. Push Onterrio and bring him in slowly and by some time he may be ready for 70-75% of the rushing plays. When a healthy Bennett returns I'm sure Onterrio will see less plays and a 3 headed RBBC approach will be in affect. We'll see after this week if Onterrio does get a few more carries and if he looks to be getting closer to that, but until then Tice needs to do whats best for them to win along with not wearing anyone out or rushing anyone back too early. RBBC for this year and probably more.Both Michael Bennett and Onterrio Smith are under contract through the 2005 season. Niether contact will be a huge cap hit for the team.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pure speculation, but maybe Tice wants Atlanta focused on stopping a potentially dangerous Smith to alleviate pressure on Frerotte. Not that Frerotte seemed to be under much pressure last week, but you never know.Personally, as a Smith owner in my main league (With Portis injured, Gordon on bye, and W. Green on hiatus) and in the $15,000 contest, I hope his prediction comes through and then some.
Click to expand...
Ooh, forgot about the 15 grand. Hope O's wife goes into labor Saturday night and doesn't pop before the end of the third quarter.(think this comment sent anyone scrambling to see if he has a pregnant wife if a wife at all?)
 
So, if you have both MWilliams and OSmith on your roster (like me), who would you start this week? anyone else? i am leaning towards smith

I wouldn't start Moe Williams this week. He will play but Onterrio will get alot of carries for the first time this year.

:yes:
Click to expand...
 
And here's a link to an article that conclusively prove that Tice predicted Onterrio WILL run for over 100 yards on Sunday.http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/4133181.html'Nough said!Pick Onterrio up if you can before it's too late!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the link. Some telling and (very) important quotes:"Vikings coach Mike Tice made that prediction (100 yards for O) Wednesday night during his radio show on KFAN (1130-AM) and was not backing down Thursday. Tice, in fact, let Smith know about it. "He told me today in practice," Smith said. "He told me I was going to have to back him up." He got a career-high 10 carries and his first NFL touchdown during last week's 35-7 victory over San Francisco, and the Vikings hope to elevate his playing time steadily."On Moss: "left practice early to receive treatment on his sore back. Tice said he had planned to limit Moss' practice time, anyway, and Moss is still on track to play Sunday.""Tice on rookie receiver Nate Burleson, who will start this week: "It's going to be hard to get him out of there [when D'Wayne Bates returns from a sprained foot]. I'm starting to wonder."In short, a good week to play those "questionable" Vikes (Moss and O seem to be great plays this weekend and Burleson might be a good play, too) and a great week to scoop your league-mates by picking up Burleson.
 
:thumbup: Finally some legitiment posts! THANK YOU for the practice blurb. Hey Onterrio, back up Tice and BACK UP US FANTASY OWNERS FOR STARTING YOU! Moe, Larry, Onterrio Moe, Larry, Onterrio Moe, Larry, Onterrio Moe, Larry, Onterrio Moe, Larry, Onterrio Moe, Larry, Onterrio :rotflmao: :excited: :sleep:
 
:thumbup: Finally some legitiment posts! THANK YOU for the practice blurb. Hey Onterrio, back up Tice and BACK UP US FANTASY OWNERS FOR STARTING YOU!
Click to expand...
Just waiting for the thread discounting the game after O tears it up for 200 yards.I can already hear it -it's only AtlantaBennett will be back next gameAnyone could run for 200 yards behind that OLThey only had him in there because Culpepper was out, once CPep retunrs Smith will be benchedWith that (or those) run(s) he really suckedHe didn't block well, he won't start againThe team rose around him knowing he is just a rookieMoe would have had 250Bennett would've had 400etc. so on and so forth :rolleyes:
 
Doesn't anybody sense that this is a diversion? I mean most players are afraid to say when they are going to have a good game so the D doesn't key on you. I am willing to be this is another Tice's diversions just like the week he predicted Smith would be mroe involved and he had like 1 carry. If I was a Smith owner I would wait and see.. I would play Moe until there is reason NOT to play him.. Enough with the damn pimping. Smith has upside for at least the next 4 weeks. If Bennett is ok after running then Smith's value drops each week. Plus Moe will never be out of the picture unless he's injured.. How can you sit a guy that has a 4.7 YPC? For all those who say Moe is old and sucks obviously are speaking as Smith owners.. It will be interesting this week.

 
Doesn't anybody sense that this is a diversion? I mean most players are afraid to say when they are going to have a good game so the D doesn't key on you. I am willing to be this is another Tice's diversions just like the week he predicted Smith would be mroe involved and he had like 1 carry. If I was a Smith owner I would wait and see.. I would play Moe until there is reason NOT to play him.. Enough with the damn pimping. Smith has upside for at least the next 4 weeks. If Bennett is ok after running then Smith's value drops each week. Plus Moe will never be out of the picture unless he's injured.. How can you sit a guy that has a 4.7 YPC? For all those who say Moe is old and sucks obviously are speaking as Smith owners.. It will be interesting this week.
Click to expand...
Good luck with Moe this weekend. ;)
 
Since I've been accused of being "one-sided" recently, I'm going out of my way to present both sides when posting now so the naysayers will shut their yappers!! :D

From the Blogger..

Regarding O:

Mike Tice couldn't wait to find Onterrio Smith on the practice field Thursday.

In an attempt to throw a little encouragement, and pressure, at his blossoming rookie, Tice told him that he predicted on his radio show that the rookie would earn his first 100-yard game Sunday at Atlanta. Smith, as self-assured as anyone in the Vikings' locker room, didn't flinch.

"That sounds good to me,'' Smith said Thursday when asked about his coach's forecast. "It feels good that he has that type of confidence in me.''

It also meant Tice is ready to give Smith his most extended playing time of the season. The fourth-round draft pick gained 43 yards on 10 carries, including a 5-yard touchdown run, in Sunday's 35-7 victory over San Francisco. Tice has said he would like Smith to share time with starter Moe Williams.

"Onterrio is going to get his chance,'' Tice said. "He looks good.''

Smith has made major strides since struggling with blocking schemes and passing routes.

"I've made an about-face,'' Smith said. "I feel so much more comfortable out there.''

Against the 49ers, Smith got up and danced after most of his runs, a practice he will continue.

"I've done it since I was in Pop Warner,'' Smith said. "If I make significant yardage, I'll get up and dance a little bit.''

Evidently, Tice believes Smith will do a lot of dancing Sunday.
Click to expand...
...but wait, there's more.....Regarding Bennett

Running back Michael Bennett hit the practice field for the first time this season. He walked the field and caught some balls. He is about a week away from starting to jog. He will attempt to start playing Nov. 2
Click to expand...
HERD
 
:thumbup: Finally some legitiment posts! THANK YOU for the practice blurb. Hey Onterrio, back up Tice and BACK UP US FANTASY OWNERS FOR STARTING YOU!
Click to expand...
Just waiting for the thread discounting the game after O tears it up for 200 yards.I can already hear it -it's only AtlantaBennett will be back next gameAnyone could run for 200 yards behind that OLThey only had him in there because Culpepper was out, once CPep retunrs Smith will be benchedWith that (or those) run(s) he really suckedHe didn't block well, he won't start againThe team rose around him knowing he is just a rookieMoe would have had 250Bennett would've had 400etc. so on and so forth :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
You forgot my favorite..."Without those two 60 yard runs, he would have only had a measley 42 yards!" :boxing:
 
If the Falcons key on Onterrio early (8-in-th-box), that secondary of theirs will be TORCHED senseless. I think the game plan is to strike via the aerial game early to try to get a substantial lead by late 2nd qtr, then pound Onterrio senseless in the 2nd half.

 
I have Onterrio in three leagues now. Owners have been dropping him losing patience waiting for him. I think he could be a good rb in this league. Anybody can be a GREAT rb behind that line. I am hoping everything works out here. It could be fun :football:

 
:thumbup: Finally some legitiment posts! THANK YOU for the practice blurb. Hey Onterrio, back up Tice and BACK UP US FANTASY OWNERS FOR STARTING YOU!
Click to expand...
Just waiting for the thread discounting the game after O tears it up for 200 yards.I can already hear it -it's only AtlantaBennett will be back next gameAnyone could run for 200 yards behind that OLThey only had him in there because Culpepper was out, once CPep retunrs Smith will be benchedWith that (or those) run(s) he really suckedHe didn't block well, he won't start againThe team rose around him knowing he is just a rookieMoe would have had 250Bennett would've had 400etc. so on and so forth :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
And how many posts will there be if he doesn't do well make excuses for him? If Onterrio tears it up, I will be right there giving him his props, but will you if he doesn't tear it up? Not too many posts from you on Onterrio while Moe was tearing it up.There's a couple of those on your excuse list that are true. Depending on his yards per carry, I would say that it had a lot to do with the O-Line. If he gets 150 on 20 carries, that's Onterrio, but if he gets 110 on 30 carries, that's the O-Line. Also about Bennett being back next game. Even though that isn't true, he will be back soon and Onterrio will be back down to 5 carries a game or less. Some of you act like if he gets 100 yards, it will justify how high he went in drafts. If you are happy with a player you drafted in the 4th round being a part time fantasy starter, fine with me, just let me play in your league next year. If Bennett comes back strong, it's going to hurt Onterrio's value at the most critical period of the fantasy season.
 
If Onterrio gets a legitimate shot and chokes, I'll be first in line to say I was wrong. Write it, print it and save it.As long as we're playing what if....What IF Onterrio does well, and what IF Bennett isn't able to be productive this year - that's the gamble Onterrio owners made this year, and so far nothing's changed. Something will change this week though - we'll find out more about the first part of that scenario.

 
:thumbup: Finally some legitiment posts! THANK YOU for the practice blurb. Hey Onterrio, back up Tice and BACK UP US FANTASY OWNERS FOR STARTING YOU!
Click to expand...
Just waiting for the thread discounting the game after O tears it up for 200 yards.I can already hear it -it's only AtlantaBennett will be back next gameAnyone could run for 200 yards behind that OLThey only had him in there because Culpepper was out, once CPep retunrs Smith will be benchedWith that (or those) run(s) he really suckedHe didn't block well, he won't start againThe team rose around him knowing he is just a rookieMoe would have had 250Bennett would've had 400etc. so on and so forth :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Switz,I hope to God you are right. I'm starting Onterrio Smith this weekend because of bye week and injury issues, but I'm bracing myself for a big letdown.
 
What IF Onterrio does well, and what IF Bennett isn't able to be productive this year - that's the gamble Onterrio owners made this year, and so far nothing's changed. Something will change this week though - we'll find out more about the first part of that scenario.
Click to expand...
And IF that happens, I will admit I was wrong.
 
"Tice on rookie receiver Nate Burleson, who will start this week: "It's going to be hard to get him out of there [when D'Wayne Bates returns from a sprained foot]. I'm starting to wonder."
Click to expand...
Who cares about Onterrio, this is what I like. :P
 
And how many posts will there be if he doesn't do well make excuses for him? If Onterrio tears it up, I will be right there giving him his props, but will you if he doesn't tear it up? Not too many posts from you on Onterrio while Moe was tearing it up.There's a couple of those on your excuse list that are true. Depending on his yards per carry, I would say that it had a lot to do with the O-Line. If he gets 150 on 20 carries, that's Onterrio, but if he gets 110 on 30 carries, that's the O-Line. Also about Bennett being back next game. Even though that isn't true, he will be back soon and Onterrio will be back down to 5 carries a game or less.
Click to expand...
Hinezer, I've been pretty active in every O thread, even while Moe has been doing well. I still believe in O 100%. Go back and recheck the threads...As for your second point, I agree 99%, if he gets 30 carries and only 110 yards, the credit likely goes more to the OLine than anything else. Moe would likely do the same. But if he gets 20 carries and pops of 130 or more yards, how many of you doubters are still going to give him no credit?And this I just don't understand - why do people feel that Bennett is going to come back and all of the sudden be 100%? He may not have gained much weight, but he's not in game shape. The planter fascia injury isn't too much different from the LisFranc as far as I know, and Staley took two years to come back from that. Plus they already admit that Bennett is going to need further surgery, and he hasn't even begun putting impact on the foot. What reasonable person really sees him being an issue before the NFL playoffs at the earliest? A rational mind simply says no way.
 
I see Bennett being a factor before the playoffs. I think its "logical" that if his foot was so messed up he couldn't be expected to contribute, then they would have shut him down for the year. HERD

 
I see Bennett being a factor before the playoffs. I think its "logical" that if his foot was so messed up he couldn't be expected to contribute, then they would have shut him down for the year.
Click to expand...
I don't know about that - why didn't the Bills IR McGahee?Bottom line, Minnesota didn't know for sure what they had in Moe or O, so they played it safe, hoping that if either could step up they'd be good, but just in case the team is on the border of making the playoffs or not and part of the struggle is the runnign game, then it'd be good to have Bennett available.Not IRing Bennett was the safe move - I'd do it too. But that doesn't mean I believe for one instance that Bennett will be a viable contributor until playoff time.Just editing to add, the earliest the Vikes expect Bennett back is week 9. That give Onterrio three games to prove he can do it, and if he can the Vikes have no reason to bring Bennett back at all. Look at the three games:Atlanta 26th in YPC allowedBYEDenver 22nd in YPC allowedGiants 13th in YPC allowedNow the Giants may prove to be a tough matchup, but so far they haven't really faced a good running team, nor an OL like Minnesota's. Smith MAY have entrenched himself pretty well by the time Bennett returns.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
As for your second point, I agree 99%, if he gets 30 carries and only 110 yards, the credit likely goes more to the OLine than anything else. Moe would likely do the same. But if he gets 20 carries and pops of 130 or more yards, how many of you doubters are still going to give him no credit?And this I just don't understand - why do people feel that Bennett is going to come back and all of the sudden be 100%? He may not have gained much weight, but he's not in game shape. The planter fascia injury isn't too much different from the LisFranc as far as I know, and Staley took two years to come back from that. Plus they already admit that Bennett is going to need further surgery, and he hasn't even begun putting impact on the foot. What reasonable person really sees him being an issue before the NFL playoffs at the earliest? A rational mind simply says no way.
Click to expand...
I hope that isn't directed at me because I have given Onterrio credit for what he has done so far.I think it is unreasonable to think that there isn't a good chance Bennett will make an impact this fantasy season. If he has no setbacks, he will be back at the latest November 9th. He would have been back in time for training camp if the pin wouldn't have broken. He said he was at 80% before he had the procedure done. The doctor that did the procedure said he is well ahead of schedule.As for further surgeries, nothing has been admitted, I don't know where you get that.
 
1. They still don't know what they have in O.2. At the beginning of the year, the Vikings had Larry Ned, Doug Chapman, Moe Williams, and Onterrio Smith in camp. These are hardly pro-bowlers, but I wouldn't say the cupboard was bare.3. Not IR'ing McGahee? Who knows, could be that they believe he will be a contributor this year. Could be part of his contract. Could be if they're going to let Henry walk, they'd like to get McGahee on the field, if only for a game or two. Jerry Rice came back from ACL injury pretty quickly.HERD

 
No reason to bring Bennett back at all? Do the Rams have any reason to bring Marshall Fualk back? I mean, Lamar Gordon has outperformed Faulk so far with fewer touches. Why would they want Faulk back?I know!!! Because he's a veteran Pro-Bowler who understands the system and has the confidence of his teammates and the confidence of his Coach! Thats it...And while I am aware Michael Bennett is not Faulk, I think the analogy is the same. How many RBs do you have on your FF roster? The answer: AS MANY AS YOU CAN FIND that are worth a damn. Same as the NFL, especially a team like Min. that has a coach that loves to run. I really do think Onterrio will have a good week and consequently a good month, but to think that Bennett is going to be fed to a pack of wild dogs for dinner if Onterrio plays well is silly.HERD

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

creepythinman
True League Winners - Upgrading the Playoff Roster
Replies
25
Views
1K
creepythinman
creepythinman
Instinctive
Instinctive's Most Divergent Projections: 2022 edition
Replies
27
Views
1K
Instinctive
Instinctive
T
My final 2022 mock draft, 3 rounds
2
Replies
56
Views
3K
travdogg
T

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top