Tice on radio 10/01/03 (1 Viewer)

[Gr00vus]

To be as certain that Bennett will step right back in, not expericence a set back, and be as effective as he was last year - after the injury and long layoff - is just as silly.I'd hazard a guess that if Onterrio is giving the NFL the business Tice would be at least somewhat tempted to say - "you know what Michael, why don't we just play it conservatively with your return from injury, go ahead and have a few extra weeks to get it togther..."

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

No reason to bring Bennett back at all? Do the Rams have any reason to bring Marshall Fualk back? I mean, Lamar Gordon has outperformed Faulk so far with fewer touches. Why would they want Faulk back?I know!!! Because he's a veteran Pro-Bowler who understands the system and has the confidence of his teammates and the confidence of his Coach! Thats it...And while I am aware Michael Bennett is not Faulk, I think the analogy is the same. How many RBs do you have on your FF roster? The answer: AS MANY AS YOU CAN FIND that are worth a damn. Same as the NFL, especially a team like Min. that has a coach that loves to run. I really do think Onterrio will have a good week and consequently a good month, but to think that Bennett is going to be fed to a pack of wild dogs for dinner if Onterrio plays well is silly.HERD

a pack of wild dogs, wow, now we're getting serious. What exactly would Bennett be fed to? A flock of angry geese, perhaps a school of perturbed dolphins?

 

[Goat Herders]

I am not calling it a certainty. Not in the slightest. I'm of the opinion that it will happen, but that hardly makes it a certainty.I can tell we all disagree on this and our opinions will only get more polarized, but the lack of credit being given to a Pro-Bowl running back who is recovering from injury on schedule with the blessing of his coach in favor of an unproven rookie is amazing.HERD

 

[switz]

No reason to bring Bennett back at all? Do the Rams have any reason to bring Marshall Fualk back? I mean, Lamar Gordon has outperformed Faulk so far with fewer touches. Why would they want Faulk back?I know!!! Because he's a veteran Pro-Bowler who understands the system and has the confidence of his teammates and the confidence of his Coach! Thats it...And while I am aware Michael Bennett is not Faulk, I think the analogy is the same. How many RBs do you have on your FF roster? The answer: AS MANY AS YOU CAN FIND that are worth a damn. Same as the NFL, especially a team like Min. that has a coach that loves to run. I really do think Onterrio will have a good week and consequently a good month, but to think that Bennett is going to be fed to a pack of wild dogs for dinner if Onterrio plays well is silly.HERD

a pack of wild dogs, wow, now we're getting serious. What exactly would Bennett be fed to? A flock of angry geese, perhaps a school of perturbed dolphins?

Oh gee - bumping this merely for what a kick I got out of it... I think I have a new sig

 

[Eagle Eye]

but the lack of credit being given to a Pro-Bowl running back who is recovering from injury on schedule with the blessing of his coach in favor of an unproven rookie is amazing.

When you say he is recovering on schedule, are you comparing that to others who have had this procedure? My understanding is that this procedure hasn't been attempted on a football player before. I also have read that he will not be 100% upon return, but will be able to play depending on his pain tolerance. If Bennett comes back and he is his old self on Nov. 2, he will garner 75% of the carries for the Vikes. I don't think most O-backers would argue otherwise. But your lack of skepticism about his recovery is amazing.

 

[switz]

As for further surgeries, nothing has been admitted, I don't know where you get that.

Because the whole purpose of this procedure was to delay the additional surgery, not replace it:

article

For now at least, Minnesota Vikings tailback Michael Bennett will eschew a second surgery on his injured left foot, ESPN.com has learned, and instead will undergo a less invasive procedure that he hopes might get him back on the field by midseason.

Likely within the next week, Bennett will have bone marrow extracted from his hip. The marrow will then be mixed with a protein agent known as Ignite, and injected in his foot, in a unique procedure developed by Charlotte, N.C.-based orthopedic surgeon Dr. Robert Anderson, the foot specialist who examined Bennett earlier this week.

The purpose of the procedure is to stimulate and promote healing to the fractured fifth metatarsal bone, an area of the foot where blood flow is diminished. The foot will then be re-cast and Bennett will resume electrical bone stimulation. The third-year veteran also will undergo hydrotherapy, with the workouts in a swimming pool aimed at reducing the pressure on his foot.

Following approximately one month of that program, the foot will be re-examined and probably scanned, and a determination on further treatment will be based on the results of that re-check. Even if progress remains slow at that point, surgery will not necessarily be indicated, said sources close to the Vikings star runner.

In fact, there is some chance Bennett may continue the more benign treatments all the way through the season, in an effort to play at least part of the campaign. If that becomes the case, surgery might be delayed until January or beyond.

"One of the components," said a source, "is just how much pain Michael can tolerate. The surgery is probably going to be necessary at some point. If it gets to a point where he can play and the pain isn't debilitating, then he'll play, because he likely wouldn't do any more damage to the foot."

 

[Goat Herders]

Eagle, you may have caught me not showing my full hand.I AM skeptical of Bennett's recovery. I do understand that its not like the guy is getting over the flu.However, I feel like medical science, especially when "money is no object" can be quite miraculous. I don't think, nor have I read anything that says "this is a 1 in 10 chance for Michael!" I have read numerous articles that suggest he's "on schedule, no setbacks" which is why I too keep saying those things.I admit that Bennett's return is hardly a certainty. However, I am encouraged by the news that things are progressing as expected. How's that?HERD

 

[Eagle Eye]

I admit that Bennett's return is hardly a certainty. However, I am encouraged by the news that things are progressing as expected. How's that?HERD

I honestly think its at most 50/50. Thus, I'm getting excited about the 50% chance that O turns into a STUD.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Good luck with Moe this weekend.

I don't have EITHER.. I am unbiased.. I just look at the facts around..

 

[Steelers4Life]

Finally, Herd admits that's there's at least an outside chance that Bennett will either never see the field this year or not be nearly 100% if he does. I hear so many people talking like Bennett's return in early November is a sure thing.Maybe Bennett comes back and tries to give it a go, but struggles for a half, or even a game. Given that the Vikings are contenders, how long do you think Tice would let Bennett struggle out there with Onterrio and Moe still around? Onterrio owners should readily admit that if Bennett comes back this year and plays reasonably well, ALL of their values hit rock bottom. However, for people like me who seriously doubt that Bennett will be able to contribute much this year, the prospects of Onterrio getting a good chance to show what he has is fantastic news - if it happens, of course. After this weekend, things should be a lot clearer.

 

[Goat Herders]

I think cooler heads are prevailing (translate: I'm not being so stubborn) and we're starting to break down this situation a bit more.

Here's what I'm seeing...

1. Onterrio should have increasing value as long as Bennett is not on the field.

2. Bennett's return is not a certainty. The current trend has him returning as scheduled since there have been no setbacks, but not until he's on the field do we know for sure.

3. If Bennett does indeed return, at worst Onterrio is relegated to spot-duty and at best (for Onterrio) its a RBBC between the three.

Is that about right?

HERD

 

[faede]

Still. There's value to be had in Bennett. Zip, zilch, zero from Onterrio.I'm still very interested in trading for bennett.... mostly because of all the naysayers about his injury. Bone injuries aren't the type to cause major problems. It's not like a ligament or tendon tear.I think Bennett can still be had cheap in most leagues, and that his opportunity to be valuable will be pretty impressive. Remember the naysayers about Priest Holmes' hip injury??? He dropped to 5+ in drafts. You think that if that draft happened now he wouldn't go 1-3?If you have Onterrio Smith, you're locked in to him, you drafted him 4th + round and there's no way your going to get anything of that value out of him until and if he performs. And even then he's got a reasonable shot to lose his value when Bennett comes back.You guys are trying to say that there's risk in Michael Bennett.I just feel like there's alot more risk involved with Onterrio Smith.In fantasy football terms... A) if you're a O.Smith owner, you pray for the best because you're not (most likely) not going to get the value you spent for him.B.) if you don't own O.Smith, you can't hope to trade for him, he's overvalued for his performance by far and is measured on iffy potential. No way you get him 'cheap'.C.) if you're a Bennett owner, you probably got him dirt cheap or off waivers... his value is low, but his potential to overperform is powerful. Sit pretty and hope everything continues the way it has so far.D.) if you don't own Bennett, try to get him cheap, now, quickly. His value will only raise as these test come in.... and it's quite low. He has the potential to be the man at the end of the ff regular season and into the playoffs.is that a fair enough assessment??Personally, the only stake i have in any of this nonsense is O.Smith on my 15k team. On my fantasy team... no way i'd overpay for O.Smith right now... and if the chance is there, i'll jump on Michael Bennett.As for this eternal and ever more boring debate on what WILL happen? I don't know... though... my money is on Michael Bennett.F

 

[Gr00vus]

Let me get this straight.You're saying there's less risk in a former pro bowl running back, returning mid season, from an injury to his foot, which required experimental procedures, which will require additional off season procedures, who has not even begun to put anything remotely like game situation stress on the repaired foot, and even then would need to get into playing shape, and not have a set back <breath> than there is in a rookie running back who is actually playing and who's coach has just told everyone is going to be force fed a chance at a 100 yard game?I just want to be clear on that.

 

[Goat Herders]

which required experimental procedures

Don't confuse "new" with "experimental." They didn't inject alien DNA into the guy, they performed a treatment that isn't widely recognized to people like me and you. As has been pointed out previously, the most "proven" medical procedures started out being "unproven."And I think Faede is discussing value, not risk. Onterrio was probably drafted somewhere between Rd4 and Rd 8, which means he was drafted before the starting roster was filled. Conversely, Bennett was probably drafted very late or picked up on waivers. I think VALUE is what Faede is discussing.HERD

 

[reg]

They didn't inject alien DNA into the guy

link?

 

[faede]

No, what I'm saying is...There's more risk in believing a rookie, 4th round choice who's played in 3 games, hasn't had more then 10 carries in his entire NFL career is going to not only beat out a quality and extremely hard working backup who's proven his worth with 3 very good games, but as well will supplant a 3rd year, pro-bowl back coming off his 'breakout' year who's had successful surgery to repair a bone injury and from all reports is progressing nicely with no setbacks.Let me address some of your hyperbole.

which required experimental procedures

you make it sound like he was cloned or something. it wasn't a huge experimental 6 million dollar man surgery. And hey... it worked. Musta been a miracle I guess.

who's coach has just told everyone is going to be force fed a chance at a 100 yard game?

Coming from Tice, I won't hold my breath. This is the same guy who predicted Moss would get what, 1800 yards last season?Or wait, he also said Onterrio would see significant time the same week he didn't play a down.We shall see, but just because Tice said it, certainly doesn't make it true. Onterrio has a great chance for good things this week against, what seems is a pretty craptastic Atlanta Defense. But don't give me the Onterrio Smith bandwagon brochure until he's actually backed up his coaches big talk, k?Clear enough for you?

 

[faede]

And I think Faede is discussing value, not risk. Onterrio was probably drafted somewhere between Rd4 and Rd 8, which means he was drafted before the starting roster was filled. Conversely, Bennett was probably drafted very late or picked up on waivers. I think VALUE is what Faede is discussing.

That's pretty much exactly what I was discussing. Predicting what will happen is pretty impossible right now. In Fantasy Football, value is the key. Bennett's value is much much lower then Onterrio's... if you're going to make a move, Bennett has MORE upside, simply because the cost is MUCH MUCH lower.Make sense?

 

[Eagle Eye]

That's pretty much exactly what I was discussing. Predicting what will happen is pretty impossible right now. In Fantasy Football, value is the key. Bennett's value is much much lower then Onterrio's... if you're going to make a move, Bennett has MORE upside, simply because the cost is MUCH MUCH lower.Make sense?

Where Onterrio was picked in the draft is a "sunk cost." It doesn't matter anymore. You wanna talk trade value, start a new thread. We could use a new Onterrio thread.

 

[Gr00vus]

Hyperbole? How is calling experimental surgery experimental hyperbole? It WAS experimental, the doctors themselves labled it as such - the procedure is basically brand new. Sure they're not doing a brain transplant, but it's still an unknown quantity right? That's all I was saying. How we got from that to alien DNA (with me being the one accused of hyperbole) is beyond me.As far as successful, there's successful and then there's successful. Jamal Anderson had successful surgery on his knee - you want him on your fantasy roster? We don't know how Bennett is going to respond, we don't know what the parameters for this sort of procedure are in terms of when/if you completely heal, if you ever return to 100%, that sort of thing. That's what I'm talking about. You don't know, I don't know, Bennett doesn't know. The doctors think they know, but admit they won't know with anything like certainty until he begins testing the thing. Not a situation I'd be comfortable making any strong statements on. Hopefully that wasn't more hyperbole.Sure Tice didn't back himself up with the talk two weeks ago. Yet there was Onterrio last week getting some time, doing some good stuff. Maybe Tice was just a week early with the talk? Who knows about that, but all things considered I think this week logically seems like a good time to see what the rook can do for Tice, him saying so is just icing on the cake. Am I saying if they were both healthy that Onterrio would beat Bennett out of a job? No, I'm not. What I am saying is that given the current situation I like the rook's chances better than the gimp's. Hence the rook is more worth a risk than the gimp. You can fill out your own Onterrio brochure if you want, I'm not selling you one. k? Here's what I KNOW with 100% certainty: the risk I took on Onterrio has already netted me 1 TD this year in a week I really needed one - and he may just give me more than that, as I've got a player who could actually physically play in games from here on out. Anyone risking much on Bennett may get absolutely nothing in return. The Bennett backers can all hold hands, whistle in the dark and pray for a full recovery - the Onterrio owners will get to watch their guy play an NFL game on Sunday with a chance to take a big step in establishing himself. I'd rather have both guys to play it safe, but since I don't have that option, I'm happier in the Onterrio camp than the Bennett one. Your milleage may vary.F__k it, just play the GD game already.

 

[red]

F__k it, just play the GD game already.

this is the most intelligent statement i've read in this whole thread...amen brother!

 

[Hinezer]

Just thought I would bump this so some could eat their crow.

 

[faede]

I stick to my guns, the only person who could possibly come out of this mess with some value is Michael Bennett when he returns. Everything else in this clusterpuck is an RBBC nightmare X 15.F

 

[switz]

Just thought I would bump this so some could eat their crow.

Well Smith certainly didn't get 100 yards. Quite honestly it looks like he just doens't know the offense as well as Moe (not that that's a surprise.) Still, for anyone who started him he put up decent points. He looked impressive as a pass receiver, and IS more explosive than Moe.I started him as my flex player, and was very happy with his production. If anyone started him over a STUD, they were downright dumb.The way the game played out makes me never want to believe a word Tice says ever again. However, in the OSmith battle of the board, this week was a draw at best.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Doesn't anybody sense that this is a diversion? I mean most players are afraid to say when they are going to have a good game so the D doesn't key on you. I am willing to be this is another Tice's diversions just like the week he predicted Smith would be mroe involved and he had like 1 carry. If I was a Smith owner I would wait and see.. I would play Moe until there is reason NOT to play him.. Enough with the damn pimping. Smith has upside for at least the next 4 weeks. If Bennett is ok after running then Smith's value drops each week. Plus Moe will never be out of the picture unless he's injured.. How can you sit a guy that has a 4.7 YPC? For all those who say Moe is old and sucks obviously are speaking as Smith owners.. It will be interesting this week.

I hope people listened... At least NOT to listen to Eagle Eye... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[Goat Herders]

Hey, who is Doug Chapman? :sarcasmtothenthdegree)HERD

 

[Ray]

If anyone started him over a STUD, they were downright dumb.

Does starting him over Moe Williams count as starting him over a stud?

 

[Hinezer]

However, in the OSmith battle of the board, this week was a draw at best.

:rotflmao:

If anyone started him over a STUD, they were downright dumb.

And because of these threads, some people did. Not really good for the Shark Pool. Maybe time to stop hyping the great Onterrio.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Maybe time to stop hyping the great Onterrio.

I like the term pimping instead. Most back him cause they OWN him and think the more followers the better chance of it turning out good.. I for one can't wait till Smith fades back where he should be. A RBBC guy on a very good team.. A nice guy to store on bench in case OLD Moe gets hurt. in one league the guy played Smith. I kicked his butt bad.. Tonight I will remind him about SOD.. :rotflmao:

 

[switz]

QUOTE (switz @ Oct 6 2003, 07:12 AM) However, in the OSmith battle of the board, this week was a draw at best.

:rotflmao:

I just want to get this straight....4.8YPC, a couple catches, more carries than Moe, but Smith still sucks?OK then - obviously you're not open to changing your opinion at all, and there's no sense in reasoning with you.

 

[Goat Herders]

Switz, you're being unreasonable. Really.Let me give you this hypethetical: If I had told you that Onterrio would (a) get the most carries out of the backfield (b) the Vikings would score 39 points and © Onterrio would have the longest run on the team........would you have said "86 total yards and no TDs sounds very encouraging!"Didn't think so.HERD

 

[Raiders Fan]

Switz, you're being unreasonable. Really.Let me give you this hypethetical: If I had told you that Onterrio would (a) get the most carries out of the backfield (b) the Vikings would score 39 points and © Onterrio would have the longest run on the team........would you have said "86 total yards and no TDs sounds very encouraging!"Didn't think so.HERD

NOTHING Smith did was encouraging to him playing more. He had 2 carries for 8 yards after the first half and 1 recp for 3 years. Most of his yards came on garbage time.. That tells me Tice still isn't comfortable with him playing under the important times. Thats what I got out of it. Fantasy wise that garbage time helpped but no reason to think its getting better.

 

[Saint]

If anything we got out of this weekend, it should be this:Tice and Shanahan are the same type of person.... Don't believe a word they tell you.

 

[kupcho1]

10 points from O was good enough for me with Dillon hurt and Mack/Martin on the bye. Up 26 going into tonight (all in) with opponent fielding D. Clark and Simeon Rice. He might just be my margin of victory :fingerscrossed:

 

[switz]

.....would you have said "86 total yards and no TDs sounds very encouraging!"

Actually yeah I would... but I'm looking at it from a different point of view. Do I think Smith earned a start next week? Definitely not.But do I think he showed progress? Yes, and Tice agrees:

Just 37 to go

Smith finished with 63 yards on 13 carries, good for a career high but short of the 100 yards Tice predicted for him during last week.

"I said he would have 100 yards, and I thought he would," Tice said. "He's just missing some things, still. I thought he missed some things again today. We'll just keep pounding him in there, and he'll learn. He'll get more comfortable with our schemes. He might have had a few more yards out there if he had slowed down a little bit."

Said Smith: "[The prediction] wasn't on my mind. What was on my mind was going out and contributing in whatever way I could."

And for the person saying his yardage was garbage time... did you watch the game? Atlanta was leading 20-12 when Onterrio went into the game, and got the majority of his carries. His big run came at the beginning of the 4th quarter, when Minnesota was only leading by 7. It was NOT a blowout at that time.I don't see from this game anything that would support the claim that Smith sucks nor anything that would support the claim that he's awesome. He looked ok, he showed a flash of speed, he missed alot of holes, he didn't show the vision I thought he had.

But... it's still early in his career, he's still on a team that obviously wants to give him a shot.

edited for typos...

 

[Steelers4Life]

I'm fine with the way Onterrio did yesterday, but I'm not one who actually expected 100 yards. He averaged almost 5 yards a carry and contributed a little in the passing game to the tune of almost 90 total yards. He had three successive carries of 28, 6, and 1 yard down to the 5 yard line, and Moe finished off the drive with a TD.Not bad for a guy who the coach says still hasn't picked everything up yet and could've done even better with more experience and some patience, both of which will come with more time.Tice won't rush Onterrio in there, which is fine. He's grooming him to be fully prepared when he gets his chance... and he will, eventually. Moe's play has allowed him to bring Onterrio along slowly, but Onterrio's talent is definitely coming through.

 

[FantasyDog]

Things turned out pretty much as I thought they would, if Atlanta got out to a quick lead.The one thing that surprised me a little was the fact that Tice used Doug Chapman as garbage back, despite the fact that he could have kept his word to Onterrio (given him a fighting chance at 100 yards) by leaving him in the game after the outcome had been decided.I guess that just goes to show how seriously Tice takes this stuff. Tice = Mike Shanahan's "slow" younger brother...

 

[smlevin]

As a OSmith "pimp" I'd just like to say a couple of things:This is looking RBBC, yes - the number and location of Chapman carries were surprising. OSmith is making progress, yes. OSmith did almost exactly what I thought he'd do on Sunday - less Moe stealing the one TD I thought he'd have. Herd - if you told me what you said to Switz, 89 combined yards and no TDs would have been surprising. I would have expected at least 1 TD in Minn.'s 39 points, but the yardage would have been as I expected.Look at this play by play, when the score was 25-20, at the start of the 4th quarter:1-10-ATL40 (15:00) G. Frerotte pass incomplete to R. Moss. 2-10-ATL40 (14:51) O. Smith up the middle to ATL 12 for 28 yards (R.Buchanan). 1-10-ATL12 (14:19) O. Smith up the middle to ATL 6 for 6 yards (P.Kerney). 2-4-ATL6 (13:48) O. Smith up the middle to ATL 5 for 1 yard (C.Draft). 3-3-ATL5 (13:09) M. Williams up the middle for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. I think that speaks for itself - 3rd down and short yardage is Moe's speciality. 1st and 2nd down - it was primarily O with the carries when the game was close.Also, OSmith got the first run of the game and he split runs with Moe all the while the teams were in contention. "Garbage time numbers" argument is from someone who is displaying a) ignorance; b) stupidity; c) obstinance; d) all of the above.That said, I played OSmith in my flex, over either QMorgan or EParker and I'm comfortable with O as a RB3 over either of them as a WR3 right now. He made progress and the team will continue to use him a lot pending Bennett's return. If Bennett is ruled out for the year at some point, or if they do not want to rush him back before the playoffs due to the current depth they have, OSmith will continue to hold flex/RB3 type value over the year - at least enough not to outright drop him from my squad. If you are counting on him to be your RB2, you are alreday in too much trouble.Finally, I am not pimp-ing O b/c I own him and hjope he'll do well - I am pimping OSmith b/c i watched him run at Oregon and he was phenomenal - I think he's the best runner on the Vikes roster, Bennett included. It's the same reason Aaron28 pimped Ladell Betts over Trung Canidate and Kenny Watson. And a very similar situation. And, yes, O Smith gets way too much play in the Shark Pool.

 

[Gr00vus]

Strange game for the Vikings yesterday. They actually trailed for quite a while, which I don't think anyone expected. I'm sure that changed the approach to the game somewhat. Still I honestly was only expecting something over 50 yards and a shot at a TD from Smith this week. So he did allright, another positive step in his development, but nothing to shout about. He seems to be learning more each week, and that's what it's all about as a rookie. He's made a nice fill in for me the last couple of weeks for byes and injuries. But he's obviously not a solid rb #2 right now - and if Bennett comes back full strength it doesn't look like he will be at any point at all this year.In other words, conservative expectations are being fulfilled, but the chance that he'll return huge on his investment seem to be evaporating. If I had to have one guy from the Viking's backfield at this point it would have to be Moe - it looks like he'll keep the TD's at least.And I am indeed done listening to anything Tice has to say.

 

[LHUCKS]

SOD looked very fast on that 20 yarder...Moe couldn't run that fast if his life depended on it. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Hatchdog33]

It's also a matter of time till Barlow takes the job from Hearst too

 

[smlevin]

I'm so pissed about Tice lying to me about O's 100 yards that there is no way I'll start either OSmith or Moe Williams this week!!!You can never believe coach speak. Whatever the coach says to the media means nothing once the opening kickoff happens. Weeks 7 and 8 the Vikes face two tough run defenses in Denver and the Giants, so I don't expect a lot of FF points from either back in those games. Now is the time to keep your Viking RBs on the bench, or trade them, b/c the Vikes are about to hit a bit of a wall offensively.

 

[Hinezer]

QUOTE (switz @ Oct 6 2003, 07:12 AM) However, in the OSmith battle of the board, this week was a draw at best. 

:rotflmao:

I just want to get this straight....4.8YPC, a couple catches, more carries than Moe, but Smith still sucks?OK then - obviously you're not open to changing your opinion at all, and there's no sense in reasoning with you.

Did I say that Onterrio sucked? No, as a Vikings fan I'm actually happy with his play. However I'm still waiting to see all his shiftiness and moves. Saw more from Moe on that 2nd TD run than I've seen from Onterrio all year.I was :rotflmao: because you said the Onterrio battle on this board was even. How's that exactly? Has Onterrio lived up to the hype you and others put on him? Not even close. How many posters (I could look it up if you want) said that Onterrio would definately have the starting job by week 4. How has Onterrio justified drafting him ahead of several different, more valuable players? I'm working on that list right now.I(and I was pretty much the main OSmith opponent) said that Onterrio wouldn't be the team's leading rusher at the end of the year and if he did it would be less than 850 yards (or was it 750). I also said the best case would be that Onterrio was the leading rusher in a RBBC. Have I been wrong so far?Please tell me how this is a "draw".

 

[switz]

I was :rotflmao: because you said the Onterrio battle on this board was even. How's that exactly? Has Onterrio lived up to the hype you and others put on him? Not even close. How many posters (I could look it up if you want) said that Onterrio would definately have the starting job by week 4. How has Onterrio justified drafting him ahead of several different, more valuable players? I'm working on that list right now.I(and I was pretty much the main OSmith opponent) said that Onterrio wouldn't be the team's leading rusher at the end of the year and if he did it would be less than 850 yards (or was it 750). I also said the best case would be that Onterrio was the leading rusher in a RBBC. Have I been wrong so far?Please tell me how this is a "draw".

If you would take a basic reading comprehension course, you'd be able to see clearly I typed "this week"This week Onterrio and More finished with equal yardage. Moe did score 2 TDs, but O had a 2PC, and more carries.In other words, this week, for the people who were saying Tice was just blowing smoke, they were wrong, for the people (myself included) who were saying Smith would run all over ATL, they were wrong.From that point of view, it was a draw.Five weeks in, for the first time O saw MORE touches than Moe. Depending on whether Bennett returns or not, that should continue to happen. Tice already said they are going to continue running him more.It's a little early to say for certain who was right. Obviously at this point, Moe has defintiely put up the better stats. But 5 games isn't even 1/3 of the season.

 

[Goat Herders]

Switz,What week can we expect you to admit the Nonterrio experiment isn't working out for you? Week 10? 14? 17? I understand what you are saying, but its getting ridiculous for people to go to bat for the guy, then on Monday morning take his stat-line and make it fit what they were "expecting."If he'd gotten 100, we would have been up to our ears in "I told you so!" around here, so its only fair that the non-beleivers get a word in as well.HERD

 

[switz]

It's also a matter of time till Barlow takes the job from Hearst too

Funny, because as this battle as developed, I've kinda thought about my position on this one in relation to my position on the Hearst/Barlow battle.I came to the conclusion that 5 weeks isn't three years. Barlow's had his shot. He's wasted it. After alienating himself from Mooch, he's gone on and alienated himself from Erickson.Smith continues working himself into Tice's favor. I'm still willing to give him a chance then.

 

[switz]

Switz,What week can we expect you to admit the Nonterrio experiment isn't working out for you? Week 10? 14? 17? I understand what you are saying, but its getting ridiculous for people to go to bat for the guy, then on Monday morning take his stat-line and make it fit what they were "expecting."

Herd,I'm not trying to twist anything. I admitted disappointment with this week to a degree. I just don't think getting 86 yards out of a RB in RBBC who is getting more and more work is a bad thing.You want to know when I'll say it was a bad pick? I woudl say when Tice stops using him. When Tice says Moe is the full time guy because Smith just can't pick stuff up. Then I'll smack myself on the head.But right now - all signs point to Smith getting a larger share of the work each week (at least until Bennett returns, if he returns healthy).

 

[Goat Herders]

Got it. I see your logic and I agree. As long as TIce uses him, he has value and the POSSIBILITY that he'll perform well.However, I'll continue saying that I think the window is continuing to close each week that goes by without him "going off." 120 and a TD last week? We'd probably be talking about the new starting RB in Minny. As it is, Tice clearly wants Moe in on the goalline carries and important pass-blocks. If Onterrio can't change that in the next month, I think he's going to be 3rd on the depth chart behind 2 solid veterans of the system in the last 3rd of the year.HERD

 

[faede]

You are right about hearst.You are wrong about Onterrio Smith.50% ain't bad. Let it go.F

 

[switz]

If Onterrio can't change that in the next month, I think he's going to be 3rd on the depth chart behind 2 solid veterans of the system in the last 3rd of the year.

Mark it on the calendar, I'm in agreement with you 100%.

 

[Gr00vus]

Switz,What week can we expect you to admit the Nonterrio experiment isn't working out for you? Week 10? 14? 17? I understand what you are saying, but its getting ridiculous for people to go to bat for the guy, then on Monday morning take his stat-line and make it fit what they were "expecting."If he'd gotten 100, we would have been up to our ears in "I told you so!" around here, so its only fair that the non-beleivers get a word in as well.HERD

Why is it ridiculous for people to say that his stat line fit what they were expecting, when he actually did as well or better than what they were expecting? I can't speak for Switz, but I can go back to one of the many Onterrio posts from last week and point to my comment that I figure he's good for 50+ yards and a possible TD. What's with all the venom? He didn't suck, he did better than the week before, didn't do anything to hurt his chances? Why all the negativity? Sure it would have been nice to see him go out and run for 200 yards and 3 td's, but I don't recall too many (if any) people saying anything like that. Put it this way - he had a better game yardage wise than Ricky Williams and many other guys did this week. What's the problem with that exactly? The negativity toward Smith has become as blind and misplaced as the positivity at this point. His real value lies somewhere in between.The trend for more use and more productivity from Smith is being established, whether the haters want to see that or not. IF Bennett comes back strong Smith's utility is reduced to near nothing, granted. But otherwise Smith will remain a useful back for spot starts at worst.