Tiger Woods (5 Viewers)

[zoonation]

I think Tiger is the greatest of all time right now.

 

[Tom Servo]

Who would be on the list of the top 5 players of Tiger's "generation", however you define that? (After Tiger)

Phil

VJ

big gap

Els

Goosen

Toms

Tiger has been completely irrelevant since Rory's rise. Same with Watson, Scott, etc.

Any list without Steve Elkington is incomplete.

 

[grateful zed]

Anybody who tries to do that is either an idiot or a troll.

welcome to the ffa

 

[Quint]

Who would be on the list of the top 5 players of Tiger's "generation", however you define that? (After Tiger)

Phil

VJ

big gap

Els

Goosen

Toms

Tiger has been completely irrelevant since Rory's rise. Same with Watson, Scott, etc.

Any list without Steve Elkington is incomplete.

:throwscataround:

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Who would be on the list of the top 5 players of Tiger's "generation", however you define that? (After Tiger)

Phil

VJ

big gap

Els

Goosen

Toms

Tiger has been completely irrelevant since Rory's rise. Same with Watson, Scott, etc.

Any list without Steve Elkington is incomplete.

:throwscataround:

great storyteller. Love the deer killing deal through the sliding glass door.

Golfers rule as approachable athletes

 

[Otis]

Fingers crossed that the GOAT starts showing his old form again.

Jack is 75. :(

Right now there is no debate about it. Woods has had an unprecedented loss of skills and at the age of 35-39. Jack was still hoisting majors. When you want to compare greatest, you compare the whole career. The greatest cannot melt down like Woods has. All you have it 'the greatest short run of wins in golf history.

I'll still take Guns n Roses over ACDC every single day. They imploded, but at their peak it was magic.

 

[AAABatteries]

Everyone likes to talk about his failed marriage but I think the turning point in Tiger's career was Earl dying. He won a few after that when he was at the peak of his greatness but I think he lost his drive to be the best ever after that.

Two other thoughts. First, I don't care how he's playing now, no one can convince me he's not the greatest player ever. He hit shots other players couldn't dream of. Jack was phenomenal but Tiger was just dominant. I know many disagree and that's fine - there's no right answer.

Second, I think he recovers from his current form and goes to being an average tour player - I'm not convinced he's done or that he can win a major yet.

 

[Jayrok]

I wonder how things would have turned out if Tiger had approached the incident in 2009 differently. He got busted, confessed to things to the wife and life as he knew it changed. His swag was gone and he began to live a life walking on egg shells to try and smooth things over in his marriage. She was done. Took the money and kids and walked. He wants to clean up his act and show everyone that he has changed. Was he taking PEDs during the dominant years? Maybe. But now he's off to try and show his lifestyle has changed. No more hookers and booze. Treading lightly to try and win the family back.

What if he came out and said, yeah, I messed up my marriage and I'm truly sorry for that. But this is who I am. I like to party and I like to win. He settles with the wife and focuses all his attention on his game. He's free to party the way he wants to. Maybe his game wouldn't have gotten derailed. He may have kept is swag.. and PEDs.. and may have already broken Jack's record by now.

Who knows?

 

[mr roboto]

^^^ problem is he's not really that guy, and that guy doesn't sell well to the 65 year old white dude conservative crowd. He's actually a nerdy savant with little in the way of true interesting gravitas outside of his game.

 

[Tom Servo]

^^^ problem is he's not really that guy, and that guy doesn't sell well to the 65 year old white dude conservative crowd. He's actually a nerdy savant with little in the way of true interesting gravitas outside of his game.

Agreed. Outside of golf - and I don't watch, BTW - what appeal does he have to someone like me? Not hating on him, but aside from a photo op with him, I can't say he'd be all that interesting of a guy to be around.

 

[mr roboto]

^^^ problem is he's not really that guy, and that guy doesn't sell well to the 65 year old white dude conservative crowd. He's actually a nerdy savant with little in the way of true interesting gravitas outside of his game.

Agreed. Outside of golf - and I don't watch, BTW - what appeal does he have to someone like me? Not hating on him, but aside from a photo op with him, I can't say he'd be all that interesting of a guy to be around.

A lot of the 'greats' are like this. Jordan for example. Arnie was a man's man. Jack was a bit aloof.

 

[MCguidance]

This guy sucks.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

^^^ problem is he's not really that guy, and that guy doesn't sell well to the 65 year old white dude conservative crowd. He's actually a nerdy savant with little in the way of true interesting gravitas outside of his game.

Agreed. Outside of golf - and I don't watch, BTW - what appeal does he have to someone like me? Not hating on him, but aside from a photo op with him, I can't say he'd be all that interesting of a guy to be around.

A lot of the 'greats' are like this. Jordan for example.Arnie was a man's man. Jack was a bit aloof.

Out of all of them, he was the one they named a drink after.

 

[DCThunder]

Tiger has the best winning percentage in golf history and is second in total wins in golf history. There's no way you can take either of those stats and make them sound like he hasn't been the second greatest player of all-time and arguably the most talented and dominant player of all time. Anybody who tries to do that is either an idiot or a troll.

None of that has anything to do with his recent struggles although I suspect that claims of his imminent demise are over stated, but whenever a great player in any sport show signs of decline everybody jumps on as if they're not great. See also Manning, Peyton.

His win percentage will drop dramatically now because, well, he can't win. He will own that record for sure but by the time he's done it won't look as magnificent as it once did. His problem is that he needs to play more because he isn't what he once was. Of course, the more he plays, the more he loses and the faster that win % drops.

His win percentage is also inflated because he only played the courses he liked and usually dominated on, and only played around 22 tournys a year. Of his wins, a sizeable percentage came on 5 or 6 courses. Doral, Torrey Pines, Bay Hill, Firestone, Augusta to a certain extent.

 

[tommyboy]

Who would be on the list of the top 5 players of Tiger's "generation", however you define that? (After Tiger)

Phil

VJ

big gap

Els

Goosen

Toms

Tiger has been completely irrelevant since Rory's rise. Same with Watson, Scott, etc.

Padraig Harrington won 3 majors during the 2000-2010 span.

 

[tommyboy]

^^^ problem is he's not really that guy, and that guy doesn't sell well to the 65 year old white dude conservative crowd. He's actually a nerdy savant with little in the way of true interesting gravitas outside of his game.

he was more interesting banging hooters waitresses and hammering Ambien than he is now

 

[culdeus]

Who would be on the list of the top 5 players of Tiger's "generation", however you define that? (After Tiger)

Phil

VJ

big gap

Els

Goosen

Toms

Tiger has been completely irrelevant since Rory's rise. Same with Watson, Scott, etc.

Padraig Harrington won 3 majors during the 2000-2010 span.

I could swap Toms for Padraig easily, but I just think back to the leaderboards week in and week out and Toms seemed to be a fixture on all of them. Wasn't winning a ton, but was always there.

If you want to do some revisionist history on Tiger you could certainly point out how that his biggest rival in Phil didn't really peak until after Tiger had his issues.

Tiger's era probably had the least big names peaking at one time than at any point in golf history. Was that a push or a pull situation though?

 

[encaitar]

I would put Sergio in there over Toms.

To me it's

Phil -- 51 wins(42 on PGA Tour), 5 majors. (Runner up to Tiger once)

VJ -- 47 wins (34 on PGA), 3 majors

Els -- 47 wins (19 on PGA), 4 majors (Runner up to Tiger twice)

Big Gap.

Goosen -- 22 wins (8 on PGA tour), 2 majors

Sergio -- 28 wins (9 on PGA tour), no majors, but 300+ weeks in OWGR top 10, third behind only Tiger and Phil in this time period.

in that order.

Also need to have honorable mentions of David Toms, David Duval, Chris Dimarco, Justin Leonard, Angel Cabrerra, Miguel Angel Jimenez, and Padraig Harrington.

Outside of Phil, VJ, and Ernie, it's hard to say that anyone really pressed Tiger as best in the world during his run.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Has it been discussed when the PGA started PED testing and how that was right after Woods won his last major?

I heard Dan Patrick mention this. He also discussed Woods' doctor being unlicensed, and in the state of Florida (like ARod), and he said somethings without really saying them.

I take it this has been covered ad nauseum here in these 165 pages, or not?

 

[James Daulton]

Looking at that sad list, Tiger really had no one step up and challenge him. I don't know if that's a testament to how thoroughly he dominated golf, or how weak the field was.

Too bad Rory came on after Tiger ran into the 9 iron. I think he's going to win a bunch more majors and would have been a great counterpart to Woods.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Has it been discussed when the PGA started PED testing and how that was right after Woods won his last major?

I heard Dan Patrick mention this. He also discussed Woods' doctor being unlicensed, and in the state of Florida (like ARod), and he said somethings without really saying them.

I take it this has been covered ad nauseum here in these 165 pages, or not?

Well, the PGA tour's drug testing is widely considered to be a joke so not sure I would draw too many conclusions. However, there is this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tiger-woods-spent-200k-hgh-guru-doc-new-book-article-1.1860280

Tiger Woods paid Canadian human growth hormone guru Anthony Galea and an associate almost $200,000 for 63 visits to the golfer’s home between September of 2008 and October of 2009, according to a recently released book that raises new questions about the drugs and treatment the Toronto sports physician provided the four-time Masters champion.

Galea received more than $76,000 for visiting Woods 14 times while Woods recovered from knee surgery between January and August of 2009, according to “Blood Sport” by Tim Elfrink and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The book also cites a Florida Department of Health investigation that found Mark Lindsay, Galea’s associate, charged Woods more than $118,000 for 49 visits.

Both doctors also treated Yankee star Alex Rodriguez, who is serving a 162-game suspension for his involvement in Major League Baseball’s Biogenesis scandal. The book maintains that Woods and A-Rod discussed their simultaneous treatments by the two physicians.

Galea pleaded guilty in 2011 in a Buffalo federal courtroom to a felony charge of bringing misbranded and unapproved drugs, including performance-enhancing drugs, into the United States.

“Blood Sport” suggests that Woods’ relationship with Galea was far more extensive than previously known. The New York Times reported in 2010 that Galea had treated Woods at least four times, but the book indicates that Galea and Lindsay had met with Woods dozens of times.

The book quotes Woods’ former swing coach, Hank Haney, saying he did not know the specifics of Galea’s meetings with Woods. When pressed on Tuesday by Golf Digest, Haney said he never saw anything illegal occur during the doctors’ visits to Woods’ Florida home.

“I was there three or four of the times Anthony Galea was there, and I didn’t see anything,” Haney said. “I can only talk about what I saw. I never saw Tiger do anything like that. Even if he did, I’m not sure how it would help him. He’s bigger and stronger from all the working out he does, but he’s not faster or longer because of it. And it’s not like he’s avoiding injuries.”

Major League Baseball attempted to obtain testimony from the grand jury that indicted Galea to use in the Biogenesis investigation that led to Rodriguez’s suspension, but a federal judge blocked its motion to unseal the testimony last year.

The News had previously reported that Lindsay had deep ties to BALCO, the San Francisco-area lab that provided designer steroids to athletes. BALCO founder Victor Conte told the Daily News in 2009 that Lindsay was part of a group called “Project World Record” that intended to make Olympic track star Tim Montgomery the fastest man in the world.

Lindsay also worked with BALCO-linked athletes Marion Jones and Bill Romanowski.

Woods and Galea have both maintained the golfer was never treated with performance-enhancing drugs but with platelet-rich plasma injections, which are legal, to promote healing.

 

[lod01]

Anyone know if Eldrick is activating his butt cheeks this week for the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am?

 

[mr roboto]

I have no proof at all but I work in the fitness industry and several of our trainers used to do competitive body building. They speculate which athletes are on PEDs and are usually correct.

According to those guys they are convinced he's was on something based on his appearance. Again it's completely unfounded but these trainers know a juicer when they see one.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Has it been discussed when the PGA started PED testing and how that was right after Woods won his last major?

I heard Dan Patrick mention this. He also discussed Woods' doctor being unlicensed, and in the state of Florida (like ARod), and he said somethings without really saying them.

I take it this has been covered ad nauseum here in these 165 pages, or not?

Well, the PGA tour's drug testing is widely considered to be a joke so not sure I would draw too many conclusions. However, there is this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tiger-woods-spent-200k-hgh-guru-doc-new-book-article-1.1860280

Tiger Woods paid Canadian human growth hormone guru Anthony Galea and an associate almost $200,000 for 63 visits to the golfer’s home between September of 2008 and October of 2009, according to a recently released book that raises new questions about the drugs and treatment the Toronto sports physician provided the four-time Masters champion.

Galea received more than $76,000 for visiting Woods 14 times while Woods recovered from knee surgery between January and August of 2009, according to “Blood Sport” by Tim Elfrink and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The book also cites a Florida Department of Health investigation that found Mark Lindsay, Galea’s associate, charged Woods more than $118,000 for 49 visits.

Both doctors also treated Yankee star Alex Rodriguez, who is serving a 162-game suspension for his involvement in Major League Baseball’s Biogenesis scandal. The book maintains that Woods and A-Rod discussed their simultaneous treatments by the two physicians.

Galea pleaded guilty in 2011 in a Buffalo federal courtroom to a felony charge of bringing misbranded and unapproved drugs, including performance-enhancing drugs, into the United States.

“Blood Sport” suggests that Woods’ relationship with Galea was far more extensive than previously known. The New York Times reported in 2010 that Galea had treated Woods at least four times, but the book indicates that Galea and Lindsay had met with Woods dozens of times.

The book quotes Woods’ former swing coach, Hank Haney, saying he did not know the specifics of Galea’s meetings with Woods. When pressed on Tuesday by Golf Digest, Haney said he never saw anything illegal occur during the doctors’ visits to Woods’ Florida home.

“I was there three or four of the times Anthony Galea was there, and I didn’t see anything,” Haney said. “I can only talk about what I saw. I never saw Tiger do anything like that. Even if he did, I’m not sure how it would help him. He’s bigger and stronger from all the working out he does, but he’s not faster or longer because of it. And it’s not like he’s avoiding injuries.”

Major League Baseball attempted to obtain testimony from the grand jury that indicted Galea to use in the Biogenesis investigation that led to Rodriguez’s suspension, but a federal judge blocked its motion to unseal the testimony last year.

The News had previously reported that Lindsay had deep ties to BALCO, the San Francisco-area lab that provided designer steroids to athletes. BALCO founder Victor Conte told the Daily News in 2009 that Lindsay was part of a group called “Project World Record” that intended to make Olympic track star Tim Montgomery the fastest man in the world.

Lindsay also worked with BALCO-linked athletes Marion Jones and Bill Romanowski.

Woods and Galea have both maintained the golfer was never treated with performance-enhancing drugs but with platelet-rich plasma injections, which are legal, to promote healing.

That's him, "Dr." Galea.

 

[McGarnicle]

Huge hit to Tiger's claim to GOAT if the PED stuff is credible. Ask Bonds and McGwire, that's a stink that doesn't wash off.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I have no proof at all but I work in the fitness industry and several of our trainers used to do competitive body building. They speculate which athletes are on PEDs and are usually correct.

According to those guys they are convinced he's was on something based on his appearance. Again it's completely unfounded but these trainers know a juicer when they see one.

Not exactly hard to do since you can speculate on any pro athlete and be right 99% of the time.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

The guys are on tour these days certainly look a lot bigger, definitely isn't just Tiger. Rory looks like he might have had some enhancement help. Corky also shed his fat and looks pretty jacked. Heck, go take a look at pics of Phil from early in his career and compare them to pics of him from a few years back. Vijay was downing deer antler spray before Ray Lewis.

 

[JuniorNB]

Well at least the Tiger fan boys have stopped denying he was roided up. They've now joined Patriot fans, Bonds fans, etc in jumping over to the 'everyone else cheats too' side of things.

Baby steps.

 

[matuski]

While it wouldn't shock me, accusing any golfer of roids on pure speculation is kind of funny. Golfers.. on roids

If you haven't ever used PRP yourself, you need to get with the program. You name the issue/ache.. it will probably help. From hair loss to joint pain to wound healing.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The PGA Tour’s Anti-Doping Policy is back in the news this week after Vijay Singh admitted in a Sports Illustrated story that he is currently using a banned substance.

The Golf Channel Research Unit developed a timeline of events related to the Tour’s drug testing, which began in 2008.

March 22, 2006: PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem says there is 'no reason to jump into the testing arena'

Aug. 23, 2006: Finchem says using PEDs is same thing as 'kicking your ball in the rough'

Aug. 25, 2006: Tiger Woods says Tour must be 'proactive instead of reactive' when it comes to testing

Sept. 6, 2006: Finchem says they will make recommendations to the board about testing

Oct. 29, 2006: European Tour chief executive George O’Grady says there will be a policy 'in the near future'

Nov. 15, 2006: LPGA announces a drug policy that will begin in 2008

May 27, 2007: O’Grady says he wants to see 'the world of golf united on this drug policy'

June 20, 2007: Finchem says 'we're getting close' to having a rule on performance-enhancing drugs

Sept. 20, 2007: The World Golf Federation announces an anti-doping policy

Nov. 13, 2007: The PGA Tour announces that testing will begin in July 2008, with plans to begin testing on the Web.com Tour at the end of 2008 and on the Champions Tour in mid-2009

Feb. 14, 2008: The LPGA begins a “trial run” of drug testing at the Fields Open:

May 17, 2008: LPGA resumes drug testing after changing drug-test administrators

July 1, 2008: PGA Tour begins drug testing at the AT&T National, European Tour at the European Open

Nov. 3, 2009: PGA Tour player Doug Barron suspended for one year after testing positive for supplemental testosterone and a beta-blocker

Aug. 11, 2011: PGA Tour issues warning to players to stop using a deer antler spray called “The Ultimate Spray” because of the presence of IGF-1, which is a banned substance

Jan. 29, 2013: Sports Illustrated releases an article on the use of deer-antler spray and includes quotes from Hall of Famer Vijay Singh, starting his own use of the spray

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/timeline-pga-tours-drug-testing-policy/

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Florida (AP) The PGA Tour plans to start its new drug-testing program as early as July, with penalties for a positive test that could range from a one-year suspension for a first offense to a lifetime ban if a player is caught three times.

Leaders from golf's most influential organizations signed off last month on an anti-doping policy. The tour's plan was approved by its policy board.

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said players will receive a manual next month as part of an education program that will extend through June, with testing to follow.

The manual will contain a list of prohibited substances that fall under 10 categories, ranging from anabolic steroids to human growth hormones to narcotics to beta blockers.

Finchem said the tour can test players without notice anytime and anywhere, and testing at a PGA Tour event can occur before or after practice or competition. There was no limit to how many times a year a player can be tested. It was not clear if there would be any mandatory testing or players, such as the winner of a tournament.

Penalties could include ineligibility for up to one year for the first violation; up to five years for the second violation; up to a lifetime ban for multiple violations; and fines up to $500,000.

Finchem said violations for recreational drugs, such as marijuana or cocaine, could be treated differently from steroids. The program allows the commissioner discretion to require treatment instead of sanctions, or a combination of the two.

He also said the tour would disclose violations and will report the penalty. That's typical of other sports, noteworthy in golf because the tour has never disclosed fines for such things as conduct unbecoming a professional.

An education program for the Nationwide Tour will begin in the middle of next year, with testing to start toward the end of the 2008 season. On the Champions Tour for players 50 and older, the education program will start in January 2009, with testing expected to start in the middle of that year.

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summer

Tiger Woods last won a major June 16, 2008 at Torrey Pines. - Of course that was also in that April-June time period that he had suffered and suffered through his really serious knee injury.

 

[matuski]

Deer antler spray.

 

[Otis]

Huge hit to Tiger's claim to GOAT if the PED stuff is credible. Ask Bonds and McGwire, that's a stink that doesn't wash off.

I'm not so sure about this. Hitting home runs is about strength. Chipping it in from 50 feet? Putting? Even driving is only so much strength and as much about technique and hitting it into the fairway. It would suck it it turned out to he was juicing, but it hardly had the impact for a golf game as it does in other sports.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The PGA Tour’s Anti-Doping Policy is back in the news this week after Vijay Singh admitted in a Sports Illustrated story that he is currently using a banned substance.

The Golf Channel Research Unit developed a timeline of events related to the Tour’s drug testing, which began in 2008.

March 22, 2006: PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem says there is 'no reason to jump into the testing arena'

Aug. 23, 2006: Finchem says using PEDs is same thing as 'kicking your ball in the rough'

Aug. 25, 2006: Tiger Woods says Tour must be 'proactive instead of reactive' when it comes to testing

Sept. 6, 2006: Finchem says they will make recommendations to the board about testing

Oct. 29, 2006: European Tour chief executive George O’Grady says there will be a policy 'in the near future'

Nov. 15, 2006: LPGA announces a drug policy that will begin in 2008

May 27, 2007: O’Grady says he wants to see 'the world of golf united on this drug policy'

June 20, 2007: Finchem says 'we're getting close' to having a rule on performance-enhancing drugs

Sept. 20, 2007: The World Golf Federation announces an anti-doping policy

Nov. 13, 2007: The PGA Tour announces that testing will begin in July 2008, with plans to begin testing on the Web.com Tour at the end of 2008 and on the Champions Tour in mid-2009

Feb. 14, 2008: The LPGA begins a “trial run” of drug testing at the Fields Open:

May 17, 2008: LPGA resumes drug testing after changing drug-test administrators

July 1, 2008: PGA Tour begins drug testing at the AT&T National, European Tour at the European Open

Nov. 3, 2009: PGA Tour player Doug Barron suspended for one year after testing positive for supplemental testosterone and a beta-blocker

Aug. 11, 2011: PGA Tour issues warning to players to stop using a deer antler spray called “The Ultimate Spray” because of the presence of IGF-1, which is a banned substance

Jan. 29, 2013: Sports Illustrated releases an article on the use of deer-antler spray and includes quotes from Hall of Famer Vijay Singh, starting his own use of the spray

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/timeline-pga-tours-drug-testing-policy/

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Florida (AP) The PGA Tour plans to start its new drug-testing program as early as July, with penalties for a positive test that could range from a one-year suspension for a first offense to a lifetime ban if a player is caught three times.

Leaders from golf's most influential organizations signed off last month on an anti-doping policy. The tour's plan was approved by its policy board.

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said players will receive a manual next month as part of an education program that will extend through June, with testing to follow.

The manual will contain a list of prohibited substances that fall under 10 categories, ranging from anabolic steroids to human growth hormones to narcotics to beta blockers.

Finchem said the tour can test players without notice anytime and anywhere, and testing at a PGA Tour event can occur before or after practice or competition. There was no limit to how many times a year a player can be tested. It was not clear if there would be any mandatory testing or players, such as the winner of a tournament.

Penalties could include ineligibility for up to one year for the first violation; up to five years for the second violation; up to a lifetime ban for multiple violations; and fines up to $500,000.

Finchem said violations for recreational drugs, such as marijuana or cocaine, could be treated differently from steroids. The program allows the commissioner discretion to require treatment instead of sanctions, or a combination of the two.

He also said the tour would disclose violations and will report the penalty. That's typical of other sports, noteworthy in golf because the tour has never disclosed fines for such things as conduct unbecoming a professional.

An education program for the Nationwide Tour will begin in the middle of next year, with testing to start toward the end of the 2008 season. On the Champions Tour for players 50 and older, the education program will start in January 2009, with testing expected to start in the middle of that year.

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summer

Tiger Woods last won a major June 16, 2008 at Torrey Pines. - Of course that was also in that April-June time period that he had suffered and suffered through his really serious knee injury.

As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, Tiger Woods was the PGA Tour Player of the Year in 2013.

If people want to define whether he's "back" by majors won, so be it. But if you're gonna make PED allegations based only on a perception that his play dropping off a cliff at the same time that drug testing was instituted you have to account for that resurgence, majors or not. It's not like there's a special PED that only helps you win majors.

 

[zoonation]

Majors won? How about majors where he even was in contention on Sunday?

 

[culdeus]

The guys are on tour these days certainly look a lot bigger, definitely isn't just Tiger. Rory looks like he might have had some enhancement help. Corky also shed his fat and looks pretty jacked. Heck, go take a look at pics of Phil from early in his career and compare them to pics of him from a few years back. Vijay was downing deer antler spray before Ray Lewis.

If he roided he for sure skipped leg day.

His delts and traps were gigantic for someone of his weight. I think it's more likely he just did targeted iso stuff that he thought would help his swing.

If you want to look like tiger just spend 3 days a week doing pec deck and reverse pec deck to failure and super set it with some one arm rows and maybe toss in a pullover set or two if feeling good.

 

[McGarnicle]

The guys are on tour these days certainly look a lot bigger, definitely isn't just Tiger. Rory looks like he might have had some enhancement help. Corky also shed his fat and looks pretty jacked. Heck, go take a look at pics of Phil from early in his career and compare them to pics of him from a few years back. Vijay was downing deer antler spray before Ray Lewis.

If he roided he for sure skipped leg day.

His delts and traps were gigantic for someone of his weight. I think it's more likely he just did targeted iso stuff that he thought would help his swing.

If you want to look like tiger just spend 3 days a week doing pec deck and reverse pec deck to failure and super set it with some one arm rows and maybe toss in a pullover set or two if feeling good.

Thanks bro.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Majors won? How about majors where he even was in contention on Sunday?

Pretty sure there's not a PED for "contending in majors on Sundays" either.

Point is, he was really really good in 2013. If you're gonna try to argue correlation = causation on Tiger's rapid decline and PED testing (which is iffy anyway just like all correlation = causation arguments) you have to address that. Did he start taking PEDs again? If so why did he stop? If not, i.e. if he stopped when testing begun, why was he able to play so well without them for a year or so?

There's also his career as a young amateur, unless you think he was juicing as a preteen. But one flaw in the argument at a time.

 

[Jayrok]

I remember John Smoltz going through mental issues and he lost his confidence on the mound. Couldn't buy a strike and it got ugly. He employed a mental coach/shrink who helped him get back on the right pitching track. During an interview with Tiger several years ago he was asked what amateur golfer did he enjoy playing with while having side bets. Tiger said Smoltzie was very competitive and always gave him a run for his money.

I wonder if Tiger could benefit from Smoltz's sports shrink.. Couldn't hurt.

 

[culdeus]

Roids if nothing else decrease flexibility. I really doubt he did much more than maybe andro. Doing some hardcore anabolics would be risky. Plus andro you could still target stuff and keep things from getting too tight.

I don't really get what HGH would do for the guy either, unless it was a mental thing.

Was he buddies with Lance? I could honestly see how something along the lines of what Lance was doing might help.

 

[TheIronSheik]

This pretty much tells you all you need to know... the fire is gone... it's out.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/woods--ex-coach-haney--tiger-s-not-concerned-with-major-record-143639783-golf.html

According to Woods' former coach Hank Haney, the 14-time major champion would be content with what he accomplished if he never pads his eye-popping resume.

On his SiriusXM radio show on Friday, Haney recalled a story from 2007 in which he was prodding Woods for his poor "work ethic."

"He said, 'If my career ended today, I'd be happy with what I've done,'" Haney said. "And I'm just telling you, that's what he told me. So I think he is fine with where he is. If his career ended today, I think he'd feel great about what he has done."

People rarely regret things when they are "in the moment." Let's see how he feels about his career ten years from now. Something tells me, even if he doesn't admit it publicly, he'll regret not getting further.

 

[urbanhack]

The guys are on tour these days certainly look a lot bigger, definitely isn't just Tiger. Rory looks like he might have had some enhancement help. Corky also shed his fat and looks pretty jacked. Heck, go take a look at pics of Phil from early in his career and compare them to pics of him from a few years back. Vijay was downing deer antler spray before Ray Lewis.

OK!

Rory looks like he is in really good shape...most of these guys do outside of JB Holmes, Staddler, Carl Pederson, & Co. Have you seen the workouts these guys do in the offseason and during the season? It really doesn't take that much work to look like Rory.

All Phil needed to do was watch his diet and spend a few minutes on the treadmill.

 

[culdeus]

The guys are on tour these days certainly look a lot bigger, definitely isn't just Tiger. Rory looks like he might have had some enhancement help. Corky also shed his fat and looks pretty jacked. Heck, go take a look at pics of Phil from early in his career and compare them to pics of him from a few years back. Vijay was downing deer antler spray before Ray Lewis.

OK!

Rory looks like he is in really good shape...most of these guys do outside of JB Holmes, Staddler, Carl Pederson, & Co. Have you seen the workouts these guys do in the offseason and during the season? It really doesn't take that much work to look like Rory.

All Phil needed to do was watch his diet and spend a few minutes on the treadmill.

Phil said he basically cut out beer, and that's it.

 

[mr roboto]

Yeah Rory isn't that big. Part of the confusion is that these phenoms (Tiger, Rory, Rose) get media attention at 16 when they are bean poles. Phil was kinda chunky at ASU.

I still think the training regimen Tiger employed was stupid for a golfer.

 

[Grahamburn]

Let the piling on continue...

 

[James Daulton]

The guys are on tour these days certainly look a lot bigger, definitely isn't just Tiger. Rory looks like he might have had some enhancement help. Corky also shed his fat and looks pretty jacked. Heck, go take a look at pics of Phil from early in his career and compare them to pics of him from a few years back. Vijay was downing deer antler spray before Ray Lewis.

OK!

Rory looks like he is in really good shape...most of these guys do outside of JB Holmes, Staddler, Carl Pederson, & Co. Have you seen the workouts these guys do in the offseason and during the season? It really doesn't take that much work to look like Rory.

All Phil needed to do was watch his diet and spend a few minutes on the treadmill.

Rory looks jacked because compared to the most other pro golfers, anyone who works out seriously will look jacked. Most dudes would be surprised at the muscle a guy can put on if he works out regularly and properly.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The PGA Tour’s Anti-Doping Policy is back in the news this week after Vijay Singh admitted in a Sports Illustrated story that he is currently using a banned substance.

The Golf Channel Research Unit developed a timeline of events related to the Tour’s drug testing, which began in 2008.

March 22, 2006: PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem says there is 'no reason to jump into the testing arena'

Aug. 23, 2006: Finchem says using PEDs is same thing as 'kicking your ball in the rough'

Aug. 25, 2006: Tiger Woods says Tour must be 'proactive instead of reactive' when it comes to testing

Sept. 6, 2006: Finchem says they will make recommendations to the board about testing

Oct. 29, 2006: European Tour chief executive George O’Grady says there will be a policy 'in the near future'

Nov. 15, 2006: LPGA announces a drug policy that will begin in 2008

May 27, 2007: O’Grady says he wants to see 'the world of golf united on this drug policy'

June 20, 2007: Finchem says 'we're getting close' to having a rule on performance-enhancing drugs

Sept. 20, 2007: The World Golf Federation announces an anti-doping policy

Nov. 13, 2007: The PGA Tour announces that testing will begin in July 2008, with plans to begin testing on the Web.com Tour at the end of 2008 and on the Champions Tour in mid-2009

Feb. 14, 2008: The LPGA begins a “trial run” of drug testing at the Fields Open:

May 17, 2008: LPGA resumes drug testing after changing drug-test administrators

July 1, 2008: PGA Tour begins drug testing at the AT&T National, European Tour at the European Open

Nov. 3, 2009: PGA Tour player Doug Barron suspended for one year after testing positive for supplemental testosterone and a beta-blocker

Aug. 11, 2011: PGA Tour issues warning to players to stop using a deer antler spray called “The Ultimate Spray” because of the presence of IGF-1, which is a banned substance

Jan. 29, 2013: Sports Illustrated releases an article on the use of deer-antler spray and includes quotes from Hall of Famer Vijay Singh, starting his own use of the spray

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/timeline-pga-tours-drug-testing-policy/

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Florida (AP) The PGA Tour plans to start its new drug-testing program as early as July, with penalties for a positive test that could range from a one-year suspension for a first offense to a lifetime ban if a player is caught three times.

Leaders from golf's most influential organizations signed off last month on an anti-doping policy. The tour's plan was approved by its policy board.

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said players will receive a manual next month as part of an education program that will extend through June, with testing to follow.

The manual will contain a list of prohibited substances that fall under 10 categories, ranging from anabolic steroids to human growth hormones to narcotics to beta blockers.

Finchem said the tour can test players without notice anytime and anywhere, and testing at a PGA Tour event can occur before or after practice or competition. There was no limit to how many times a year a player can be tested. It was not clear if there would be any mandatory testing or players, such as the winner of a tournament.

Penalties could include ineligibility for up to one year for the first violation; up to five years for the second violation; up to a lifetime ban for multiple violations; and fines up to $500,000.

Finchem said violations for recreational drugs, such as marijuana or cocaine, could be treated differently from steroids. The program allows the commissioner discretion to require treatment instead of sanctions, or a combination of the two.

He also said the tour would disclose violations and will report the penalty. That's typical of other sports, noteworthy in golf because the tour has never disclosed fines for such things as conduct unbecoming a professional.

An education program for the Nationwide Tour will begin in the middle of next year, with testing to start toward the end of the 2008 season. On the Champions Tour for players 50 and older, the education program will start in January 2009, with testing expected to start in the middle of that year.

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summer

Tiger Woods last won a major June 16, 2008 at Torrey Pines. - Of course that was also in that April-June time period that he had suffered and suffered through his really serious knee injury.

As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, Tiger Woods was the PGA Tour Player of the Year in 2013.

If people want to define whether he's "back" by majors won, so be it. But if you're gonna make PED allegations based only on a perception that his play dropping off a cliff at the same time that drug testing was instituted you have to account for that resurgence, majors or not. It's not like there's a special PED that only helps you win majors.

Ok, fair enough.

I will point out that Majors have the best fields, have the toughest courses in the toughest conditions, and require the greatest endurance and toughness. It's not just like they are "just another round."

But, question: what do people know about the testing? How often does the PGA do it and is it any different for the majors? We know a lot about testing in baseball and NFL (the Gordon thread is almost a treatise on it), what goes on in pro golf?

 

[TobiasFunke]

The PGA Tour’s Anti-Doping Policy is back in the news this week after Vijay Singh admitted in a Sports Illustrated story that he is currently using a banned substance.

The Golf Channel Research Unit developed a timeline of events related to the Tour’s drug testing, which began in 2008.

March 22, 2006: PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem says there is 'no reason to jump into the testing arena'

Aug. 23, 2006: Finchem says using PEDs is same thing as 'kicking your ball in the rough'

Aug. 25, 2006: Tiger Woods says Tour must be 'proactive instead of reactive' when it comes to testing

Sept. 6, 2006: Finchem says they will make recommendations to the board about testing

Oct. 29, 2006: European Tour chief executive George O’Grady says there will be a policy 'in the near future'

Nov. 15, 2006: LPGA announces a drug policy that will begin in 2008

May 27, 2007: O’Grady says he wants to see 'the world of golf united on this drug policy'

June 20, 2007: Finchem says 'we're getting close' to having a rule on performance-enhancing drugs

Sept. 20, 2007: The World Golf Federation announces an anti-doping policy

Nov. 13, 2007: The PGA Tour announces that testing will begin in July 2008, with plans to begin testing on the Web.com Tour at the end of 2008 and on the Champions Tour in mid-2009

Feb. 14, 2008: The LPGA begins a “trial run” of drug testing at the Fields Open:

May 17, 2008: LPGA resumes drug testing after changing drug-test administrators

July 1, 2008: PGA Tour begins drug testing at the AT&T National, European Tour at the European Open

Nov. 3, 2009: PGA Tour player Doug Barron suspended for one year after testing positive for supplemental testosterone and a beta-blocker

Aug. 11, 2011: PGA Tour issues warning to players to stop using a deer antler spray called “The Ultimate Spray” because of the presence of IGF-1, which is a banned substance

Jan. 29, 2013: Sports Illustrated releases an article on the use of deer-antler spray and includes quotes from Hall of Famer Vijay Singh, starting his own use of the spray

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/timeline-pga-tours-drug-testing-policy/

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Florida (AP) The PGA Tour plans to start its new drug-testing program as early as July, with penalties for a positive test that could range from a one-year suspension for a first offense to a lifetime ban if a player is caught three times.

Leaders from golf's most influential organizations signed off last month on an anti-doping policy. The tour's plan was approved by its policy board.

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said players will receive a manual next month as part of an education program that will extend through June, with testing to follow.

The manual will contain a list of prohibited substances that fall under 10 categories, ranging from anabolic steroids to human growth hormones to narcotics to beta blockers.

Finchem said the tour can test players without notice anytime and anywhere, and testing at a PGA Tour event can occur before or after practice or competition. There was no limit to how many times a year a player can be tested. It was not clear if there would be any mandatory testing or players, such as the winner of a tournament.

Penalties could include ineligibility for up to one year for the first violation; up to five years for the second violation; up to a lifetime ban for multiple violations; and fines up to $500,000.

Finchem said violations for recreational drugs, such as marijuana or cocaine, could be treated differently from steroids. The program allows the commissioner discretion to require treatment instead of sanctions, or a combination of the two.

He also said the tour would disclose violations and will report the penalty. That's typical of other sports, noteworthy in golf because the tour has never disclosed fines for such things as conduct unbecoming a professional.

An education program for the Nationwide Tour will begin in the middle of next year, with testing to start toward the end of the 2008 season. On the Champions Tour for players 50 and older, the education program will start in January 2009, with testing expected to start in the middle of that year.

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summer

Tiger Woods last won a major June 16, 2008 at Torrey Pines. - Of course that was also in that April-June time period that he had suffered and suffered through his really serious knee injury.

As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, Tiger Woods was the PGA Tour Player of the Year in 2013.

If people want to define whether he's "back" by majors won, so be it. But if you're gonna make PED allegations based only on a perception that his play dropping off a cliff at the same time that drug testing was instituted you have to account for that resurgence, majors or not. It's not like there's a special PED that only helps you win majors.

Ok, fair enough.

I will point out that Majors have the best fields, have the toughest courses in the toughest conditions, and require the greatest endurance and toughness. It's not just like they are "just another round."

But, question: what do people know about the testing? How often does the PGA do it and is it any different for the majors? We know a lot about testing in baseball and NFL (the Gordon thread is almost a treatise on it), what goes on in pro golf?

The fields in the events he was winning were pretty tough. And from a physical standpoint a round at the majors is in fact just another round, other than the extra couple swings of the club. When people talk about the conditions at majors and the "toughness" you need to win, they're referring to mental toughness. I don't think they've invented mental PEDs yet. It's not like the majors play longer or something, which is where you might arguably see PED benefits for golfers (questionable anyway).

 

[culdeus]

The PGA Tours Anti-Doping Policy is back in the news this week after Vijay Singh admitted in a Sports Illustrated story that he is currently using a banned substance.

The Golf Channel Research Unit developed a timeline of events related to the Tours drug testing, which began in 2008.

March 22, 2006: PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem says there is 'no reason to jump into the testing arena'

Aug. 23, 2006: Finchem says using PEDs is same thing as 'kicking your ball in the rough'

Aug. 25, 2006: Tiger Woods says Tour must be 'proactive instead of reactive' when it comes to testing

Sept. 6, 2006: Finchem says they will make recommendations to the board about testing

Oct. 29, 2006: European Tour chief executive George OGrady says there will be a policy 'in the near future'

Nov. 15, 2006: LPGA announces a drug policy that will begin in 2008

May 27, 2007: OGrady says he wants to see 'the world of golf united on this drug policy'

June 20, 2007: Finchem says 'we're getting close' to having a rule on performance-enhancing drugs

Sept. 20, 2007: The World Golf Federation announces an anti-doping policy

Nov. 13, 2007: The PGA Tour announces that testing will begin in July 2008, with plans to begin testing on the Web.com Tour at the end of 2008 and on the Champions Tour in mid-2009

Feb. 14, 2008: The LPGA begins a trial run of drug testing at the Fields Open:

May 17, 2008: LPGA resumes drug testing after changing drug-test administrators

July 1, 2008: PGA Tour begins drug testing at the AT&T National, European Tour at the European Open

Nov. 3, 2009: PGA Tour player Doug Barron suspended for one year after testing positive for supplemental testosterone and a beta-blocker

Aug. 11, 2011: PGA Tour issues warning to players to stop using a deer antler spray called The Ultimate Spray because of the presence of IGF-1, which is a banned substance

Jan. 29, 2013: Sports Illustrated releases an article on the use of deer-antler spray and includes quotes from Hall of Famer Vijay Singh, starting his own use of the spray

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/timeline-pga-tours-drug-testing-policy/

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Florida (AP) The PGA Tour plans to start its new drug-testing program as early as July, with penalties for a positive test that could range from a one-year suspension for a first offense to a lifetime ban if a player is caught three times.

Leaders from golf's most influential organizations signed off last month on an anti-doping policy. The tour's plan was approved by its policy board.

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said players will receive a manual next month as part of an education program that will extend through June, with testing to follow.

The manual will contain a list of prohibited substances that fall under 10 categories, ranging from anabolic steroids to human growth hormones to narcotics to beta blockers.

Finchem said the tour can test players without notice anytime and anywhere, and testing at a PGA Tour event can occur before or after practice or competition. There was no limit to how many times a year a player can be tested. It was not clear if there would be any mandatory testing or players, such as the winner of a tournament.

Penalties could include ineligibility for up to one year for the first violation; up to five years for the second violation; up to a lifetime ban for multiple violations; and fines up to $500,000.

Finchem said violations for recreational drugs, such as marijuana or cocaine, could be treated differently from steroids. The program allows the commissioner discretion to require treatment instead of sanctions, or a combination of the two.

He also said the tour would disclose violations and will report the penalty. That's typical of other sports, noteworthy in golf because the tour has never disclosed fines for such things as conduct unbecoming a professional.

An education program for the Nationwide Tour will begin in the middle of next year, with testing to start toward the end of the 2008 season. On the Champions Tour for players 50 and older, the education program will start in January 2009, with testing expected to start in the middle of that year.

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summerTiger Woods last won a major June 16, 2008 at Torrey Pines. - Of course that was also in that April-June time period that he had suffered and suffered through his really serious knee injury.

As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, Tiger Woods was the PGA Tour Player of the Year in 2013.

If people want to define whether he's "back" by majors won, so be it. But if you're gonna make PED allegations based only on a perception that his play dropping off a cliff at the same time that drug testing was instituted you have to account for that resurgence, majors or not. It's not like there's a special PED that only helps you win majors.

Ok, fair enough.

I will point out that Majors have the best fields, have the toughest courses in the toughest conditions, and require the greatest endurance and toughness. It's not just like they are "just another round."

But, question: what do people know about the testing? How often does the PGA do it and is it any different for the majors? We know a lot about testing in baseball and NFL (the Gordon thread is almost a treatise on it), what goes on in pro golf?

The fields in the events he was winning were pretty tough. And from a physical standpoint a round at the majors is in fact just another round, other than the extra couple swings of the club. When people talk about the conditions at majors and the "toughness" you need to win, they're referring to mental toughness. I don't think they've invented mental PEDs yet. It's not like the majors play longer or something, which is where you might arguably see PED benefits for golfers (questionable anyway).

Adderall

 

[TobiasFunke]

The PGA Tours Anti-Doping Policy is back in the news this week after Vijay Singh admitted in a Sports Illustrated story that he is currently using a banned substance.

The Golf Channel Research Unit developed a timeline of events related to the Tours drug testing, which began in 2008.

March 22, 2006: PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem says there is 'no reason to jump into the testing arena'

Aug. 23, 2006: Finchem says using PEDs is same thing as 'kicking your ball in the rough'

Aug. 25, 2006: Tiger Woods says Tour must be 'proactive instead of reactive' when it comes to testing

Sept. 6, 2006: Finchem says they will make recommendations to the board about testing

Oct. 29, 2006: European Tour chief executive George OGrady says there will be a policy 'in the near future'

Nov. 15, 2006: LPGA announces a drug policy that will begin in 2008

May 27, 2007: OGrady says he wants to see 'the world of golf united on this drug policy'

June 20, 2007: Finchem says 'we're getting close' to having a rule on performance-enhancing drugs

Sept. 20, 2007: The World Golf Federation announces an anti-doping policy

Nov. 13, 2007: The PGA Tour announces that testing will begin in July 2008, with plans to begin testing on the Web.com Tour at the end of 2008 and on the Champions Tour in mid-2009

Feb. 14, 2008: The LPGA begins a trial run of drug testing at the Fields Open:

May 17, 2008: LPGA resumes drug testing after changing drug-test administrators

July 1, 2008: PGA Tour begins drug testing at the AT&T National, European Tour at the European Open

Nov. 3, 2009: PGA Tour player Doug Barron suspended for one year after testing positive for supplemental testosterone and a beta-blocker

Aug. 11, 2011: PGA Tour issues warning to players to stop using a deer antler spray called The Ultimate Spray because of the presence of IGF-1, which is a banned substance

Jan. 29, 2013: Sports Illustrated releases an article on the use of deer-antler spray and includes quotes from Hall of Famer Vijay Singh, starting his own use of the spray

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/timeline-pga-tours-drug-testing-policy/

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Florida (AP) The PGA Tour plans to start its new drug-testing program as early as July, with penalties for a positive test that could range from a one-year suspension for a first offense to a lifetime ban if a player is caught three times.

Leaders from golf's most influential organizations signed off last month on an anti-doping policy. The tour's plan was approved by its policy board.

PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said players will receive a manual next month as part of an education program that will extend through June, with testing to follow.

The manual will contain a list of prohibited substances that fall under 10 categories, ranging from anabolic steroids to human growth hormones to narcotics to beta blockers.

Finchem said the tour can test players without notice anytime and anywhere, and testing at a PGA Tour event can occur before or after practice or competition. There was no limit to how many times a year a player can be tested. It was not clear if there would be any mandatory testing or players, such as the winner of a tournament.

Penalties could include ineligibility for up to one year for the first violation; up to five years for the second violation; up to a lifetime ban for multiple violations; and fines up to $500,000.

Finchem said violations for recreational drugs, such as marijuana or cocaine, could be treated differently from steroids. The program allows the commissioner discretion to require treatment instead of sanctions, or a combination of the two.

He also said the tour would disclose violations and will report the penalty. That's typical of other sports, noteworthy in golf because the tour has never disclosed fines for such things as conduct unbecoming a professional.

An education program for the Nationwide Tour will begin in the middle of next year, with testing to start toward the end of the 2008 season. On the Champions Tour for players 50 and older, the education program will start in January 2009, with testing expected to start in the middle of that year.

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summerTiger Woods last won a major June 16, 2008 at Torrey Pines. - Of course that was also in that April-June time period that he had suffered and suffered through his really serious knee injury.

As has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, Tiger Woods was the PGA Tour Player of the Year in 2013.

If people want to define whether he's "back" by majors won, so be it. But if you're gonna make PED allegations based only on a perception that his play dropping off a cliff at the same time that drug testing was instituted you have to account for that resurgence, majors or not. It's not like there's a special PED that only helps you win majors.

Ok, fair enough.

I will point out that Majors have the best fields, have the toughest courses in the toughest conditions, and require the greatest endurance and toughness. It's not just like they are "just another round."

But, question: what do people know about the testing? How often does the PGA do it and is it any different for the majors? We know a lot about testing in baseball and NFL (the Gordon thread is almost a treatise on it), what goes on in pro golf?

The fields in the events he was winning were pretty tough. And from a physical standpoint a round at the majors is in fact just another round, other than the extra couple swings of the club. When people talk about the conditions at majors and the "toughness" you need to win, they're referring to mental toughness. I don't think they've invented mental PEDs yet. It's not like the majors play longer or something, which is where you might arguably see PED benefits for golfers (questionable anyway).

Adderall

So to recap the PED argument ... the reason he stopped being the best player in the world in 2008 was because he couldn't take PEDs anymore. He was able to overcome this in 2013 and was once again the best player in the world (still no explanation for how this was done, or how he was so good as a teenage amateur). But he still couldn't win majors because he wasn't able to take Adderall and therefore couldn't keep focused as one needs to do in the majors ... although his focus that year was still sufficient to win multiple WGC events, go 4-1 in the President's Cup and finish T4 in the Masters and T6 in the Open.

Is that about where we are on this one?

 

[tommyboy]

Who would be on the list of the top 5 players of Tiger's "generation", however you define that? (After Tiger)

Phil

VJ

big gap

Els

Goosen

Toms

Tiger has been completely irrelevant since Rory's rise. Same with Watson, Scott, etc.

Padraig Harrington won 3 majors during the 2000-2010 span.

I could swap Toms for Padraig easily, but I just think back to the leaderboards week in and week out and Toms seemed to be a fixture on all of them. Wasn't winning a ton, but was always there.

If you want to do some revisionist history on Tiger you could certainly point out how that his biggest rival in Phil didn't really peak until after Tiger had his issues.

Tiger's era probably had the least big names peaking at one time than at any point in golf history. Was that a push or a pull situation though?

I think its because Tiger dominated everyone, he was head and shoulders above the rest. He didn't lose the aura until he choked against YE Yang.