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Tiger Woods (2 Viewers)

For everyone dissing Tiger's "fear factor" - right now who is the player competitors would least like to see within 2 strokes of a major on Sunday?? I'd say it's Tiger then Koepka. Koepka is the only one who consistently displays that level of ice water in his veins.  DJ, Rory, Spieth, Thomas, Fowler, Rose, now Molinari - all have displayed greatness but also totally folding when it counts.

 
Judge Smails said:
For everyone dissing Tiger's "fear factor" - right now who is the player competitors would least like to see within 2 strokes of a major on Sunday?? I'd say it's Tiger then Koepka. Koepka is the only one who consistently displays that level of ice water in his veins.  DJ, Rory, Spieth, Thomas, Fowler, Rose, now Molinari - all have displayed greatness but also totally folding when it counts.
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Don’t forget Xander...that kid oozes talent. 

 
TripItUp said:
So Bethpage Black...good or bad for 2019 Tiger?

let's get to concentrating on #16
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From all I've read, Bethpage Black is not an ideal setup for Tiger.  Torrey Pines obviously is, but BB is not.

 
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Apple Jack said:
He's going to get his putting stroke back at some point.
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One of my golfing buddies was just telling me about an article he read (or something he saw on the Golf Channel, not sure) about after you turn 40, your eyes can no longer read greens the way you did before.  Now, I don't have a link to an article because I'm getting this info second hand, but it makes sense.  I tried doing a Google search but couldn't find anything.  

 
Judge Smails said:
For everyone dissing Tiger's "fear factor" - right now who is the player competitors would least like to see within 2 strokes of a major on Sunday?? I'd say it's Tiger then Koepka. Koepka is the only one who consistently displays that level of ice water in his veins.  DJ, Rory, Spieth, Thomas, Fowler, Rose, now Molinari - all have displayed greatness but also totally folding when it counts.
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So I'm one of those people, so I'll explain what I was saying a little better.  20 years ago, Tiger was winning so much that others knew they had to play perfect golf to keep pace with him.  He rarely made a mistake.  So every shot they took had to be perfect otherwise they were done.  There was zero room for error.  And the closer you got to the 72nd hole, the better Tiger was hitting.  That was a lot of pressure that most, if not all, couldn't handle.  

But Tiger is not perfect anymore.  That means if you're another golfer, you can get away with a couple bad shots.  Or a missed putt.  Because you know that there's a chance Tiger will do the same at some point.  Tiger of old was a freight train screaming down the tracks at a steady high rate of speed.  

The only person I ever really remember not being fazed by Tiger was Y.E. Yang in that one major.  I remember watching that tournament and thinking, "He just showed the rest of the tour how to beat Tiger."  

 
I'm not saying the Tiger fear factor never existed, but how would anyone explain him never coming from behind to win a major for all those years if everyone "crumbled" at the sight of him behind them on the board?

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
I'm not saying the Tiger fear factor never existed, but how would anyone explain him never coming from behind to win a major for all those years if everyone "crumbled" at the sight of him behind them on the board?
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He rarely trailed after 54 holes in majors in those days, I suppose is a good an explanation as any.  ?

 
Jayrok said:
Tiger has won a US Open at Bethpage Black and finished 6th in another US Open there.  
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Yes.  And I can assure you I'm not telling you my opinion because I have zero knowledge of how well he'll play there.  I'm just saying what I've heard is BB is not ideal for him right now.  The reasons they say are that it's long and this time of the year will play even longer.  And while Tiger is still a long hitter, he's not as long as the younger guys on tour now.  

But again, not my opinion.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
So I'm one of those people, so I'll explain what I was saying a little better.  20 years ago, Tiger was winning so much that others knew they had to play perfect golf to keep pace with him.  He rarely made a mistake.  So every shot they took had to be perfect otherwise they were done.  There was zero room for error.  And the closer you got to the 72nd hole, the better Tiger was hitting.  That was a lot of pressure that most, if not all, couldn't handle.  

But Tiger is not perfect anymore.  That means if you're another golfer, you can get away with a couple bad shots.  Or a missed putt.  Because you know that there's a chance Tiger will do the same at some point.  Tiger of old was a freight train screaming down the tracks at a steady high rate of speed.  

The only person I ever really remember not being fazed by Tiger was Y.E. Yang in that one major.  I remember watching that tournament and thinking, "He just showed the rest of the tour how to beat Tiger."  
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And maybe its different now...but there appears to still be some factor.

Guys pushing for flags they shouldn't.  The two in his group fell apart down the stretch while Tiger remained patient.

and player after player still talked about there being a difference between a roar and a tiger roar of the crowd at Augusta.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
I'm not saying the Tiger fear factor never existed, but how would anyone explain him never coming from behind to win a major for all those years if everyone "crumbled" at the sight of him behind them on the board?
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Often it came on Saturday (moving day) and the factor of chasing him and even when you thought you got close youd hear the sound and knew Tiger had birdied and you had to press even more.

And time after time of those playing with him in the final group falling apart.

 
TheIronSheik said:
From all I've read, Bethpage Black is not an ideal setup for Tiger.  Torrey Pines obviously is, but BB is not.
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With his length and ball-striking, there really isn't a course that is bad for him. Maybe something with slow greens. And in the case of Bethpage, the greens are as flat and fast as they come which is good for his putting issues.

He's still one of the longer guys on tour. His driving stats don't tell the whole story because some of those being measured are 3-woods.

 
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sho nuff said:
And maybe its different now...but there appears to still be some factor.

Guys pushing for flags they shouldn't.  The two in his group fell apart down the stretch while Tiger remained patient.

and player after player still talked about there being a difference between a roar and a tiger roar of the crowd at Augusta.
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I don't think the guys fell apart because of Tiger.  As someone else said, sometimes guys just have bad holes.  On 12, I think Tiger's experience played way more into it than any kind of fear.

As for interviews, no one in their right mind is going to say something bad about Tiger.  And I don't mean "bad" as in a cheap shot.  But bad in a disrespectful way.  They may talk about the greatness of his game and how great it is to see him do well, but away from microphones I'm betting everyone of those guys is thinking, "I can beat him now."  20 years ago, even away from the mic, guys wouldn't even say to themselves in an empty room they could beat Tiger.  That was the fear.  It was the fact that the best golfers in the world knew they were no match for Tiger.

Whether they are correct or not, I'm willing to bet almost every golfer on tour right now thinks they can beat Tiger, when push comes to shove.  That's the difference.

 
Apple Jack said:
With his length and ball-striking, there really isn't a course that is bad for him. Maybe something with slow greens. And in the case of Bethpage, the greens are as flat and fast as they come which is good for his putting issues.

He's still one of the longer guys on tour. His driving stats don't tell the whole story because some of those being measured are 3-woods.
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That's because he's been inconsistent with his driver.  No offense, GB, but I feel like you're looking at him through rose colored glasses.  His "length and ball striking" is on par with every other tour golfer right now.  He's no longer a freak of nature.  I'm not saying he's bad or even average.  But he's not the best anymore.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
That's because he's been inconsistent with his driver.  No offense, GB, but I feel like you're looking at him through rose colored glasses.  His "length and ball striking" is on par with every other tour golfer right now.  He's no longer a freak of nature.  I'm not saying he's bad or even average.  But he's not the best anymore.  
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Now would be a good time to take a breather.

 
TheIronSheik said:
You disagree with that?
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There is not a better iron-player in the world.

4th on tour in scoring average. 51st in distance, again hitting a lot more 3-woods than most. 2nd in greens in regulation. 9th in strokes gained tee to green. Putting from 7' and in? 156th.

And most importantly, the last three Majors...T6, 2, 1

 
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Apple Jack said:
There is not a better iron-player in the world.

4th on tour in scoring average. 51st in distance, again hitting a lot more 3-woods than most. 2nd in greens in regulation. 9th in strokes gained tee to green. Putting from 7' and in? 156th.

And most importantly, the last three Majors...T6, 2, 1
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I’d like to know how many times any other golfer in the world since Tiger was born has done this or better in three straight majors.  I bet it’s not all that many.

Not bad for a finished bum.

 
If tiger continues splitting the fairway off the tee, he is going to win a lot.  As Apple said, there is no better iron player in the world.

 
zoonation said:
If tiger continues splitting the fairway off the tee, he is going to win a lot.  As Apple said, there is no better iron player in the world.
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This.  It was clear to those of us watching that his driver was murdering him last year.  His iron game looked pretty great, and his putter was there at times.  But he was constantly trying to get out of some disaster with his second shot.  Really hard to win that way at this point.  Was amazing he managed to hang in there like he did.

But if he can keep driving it like he did this week?  He’s got to be the favorite or near favorite in every tournament going forward.  UNFINISHED

 
Apple Jack said:
There is not a better iron-player in the world.

4th on tour in scoring average. 51st in distance, again hitting a lot more 3-woods than most. 2nd in greens in regulation. 9th in strokes gained tee to green. Putting from 7' and in? 156th.

And most importantly, the last three Majors...T6, 2, 1
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Look at what you highlighted.  Sure, he's 3rd in the world right now for ball striking.  But he's like 51st for driving distance.  So for "length and ball striking", yes, he's average.

 
mr roboto said:
 He wins the masters by six strokes if he could make a few more putts like he used to. 
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Probably wins it by 12 if he hits his drives straight.  Maybe 24 strokes if he adds an extra 50 yards to each drive.  Possibly 50 strokes if he can land each drive 2 feet from the pin on each hole.

I mean he's the greatest player right now.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Except the 2 people ranked above him.
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Who would those better iron players be?  Not Rory.  Not DJ.  Those guys are far superior drivers of the ball, but Tiger's a-game iron play is unmatched (I think Nicklaus has said he is the greatest iron player ever on more than one occasion).

 
TheIronSheik said:
Look at what you highlighted.  Sure, he's 3rd in the world right now for ball striking.  But he's like 51st for driving distance.  So for "length and ball striking", yes, he's average.
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That's for the season. And I would really like to bet you money on this topic. Please, please let's revisit this conversation the week of the PGA.

 
zoonation said:
Who would those better iron players be?  Not Rory.  Not DJ.  Those guys are far superior drivers of the ball, but Tiger's a-game iron play is unmatched (I think Nicklaus has said he is the greatest iron player ever on more than one occasion).
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He said it Sunday. Prompted by his iron-play last week.

 
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zoonation said:
Who would those better iron players be?  Not Rory.  Not DJ.  Those guys are far superior drivers of the ball, but Tiger's a-game iron play is unmatched (I think Nicklaus has said he is the greatest iron player ever on more than one occasion).
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Again, I'm just using the stats the PGA puts out.  He's ranked 3rd.  And if anyone is saying something like "He used to be..." or anything that refers to his past accomplishments, it's using rose colored glasses.  He's 43 years old.  Jack Nicklaus was a great golfer, but I'm guessing he'd probably have trouble swinging a club now.  Or standing.  Or breathing.  Skill and talent begin to fall off a cliff once you are over a certain age.  And time has shown that people don't play to their highest potential in their mid 40's.

I'm not taking anything away from what he's accomplished.  I'm simply saying rational statements.  

 
Apple Jack said:
That's for the season. And I would really like to bet you money on this topic. Please, please let's revisit this conversation the week of the PGA.
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Bet you on what topic?  Are you saying that he'll be the greatest ball striker, longest driver and most accurate?  OK.  I'll take that bet.

 
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