Tiger Woods (8 Viewers)

[gump]

Jack won 17 of his majors over a 19 season span, never went longer than 3 years without one (obvs the magical 1986 back 9 charge came after a 5+ year dry spell). Gary Player won majors over a 20 year span, longest winless span was 4 years. You can find exceptions - Sarazen won 3 when he was very young and 4 more a decade later in his 30s, but most great champions over the last 100 years have packed all their majors inside of 7 - 9 years (Hogan, Palmer, Watson). We've seen the one last hurrah (Trevino in 1984, Nicklaus in 1986), but those were one-shot deals, not a second sustained career like Woods is attempting to accomplish.All that said, he's been doing incredible things we never thought we'd see for 20 years. The odds are he doesn't catch Jack and doesn't have the sustained second career, simply because it's never been done. Yet it wouldn't surprise very many if he did exactly that - go out and reclaim his dominant in majors perch after a 5 year absence. I hope he does, because I've gotten more joy out of watching him compete than any other athlete of my lifetime.

I'd be shocked if Tiger's career post-40 doesn't blow Jacks out of the water. Nicklaus only won 2 PGA events and a Masters. He just wasn't motivated to play. Tiger will be. It'll be fun to watch the chase.

 

[Otis]

He's done. He'll be competitive but he lost the fear factor. Looks like The Gold Bear might be out of the woods.

This is the key. Fin said he'd be competitive, for Tiger that means winning every few tourneys he enters. If he doesn't threaten Jack's major record, NostraFinless's prediction stands.

Right. It's funny because for over 10 years, it was well-known that all Tiger Woods cared about (besides getting some strange anywhere and everywhere) was missing Majors, and now standards apparently have dropped so far that his fans are now beating their chests over wins in non-Majors.

There are more events than just Major championships. Golf is not four weeks a year. This Majors thing has spun way out of control to the point that people have lost sight of the game.

Now who's moving the goalposts?

Still you, Fin.

 

[Otis]

This argument borders on idiotic. What will they say after he wins a major this year? He didn't win enough majors yet to be more than competitive?

Laughable.

 

[Txns8]

What have we seen thus far that would lead us to believe he won't win a major this year? I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It's big news because its a harbinger of things to come (projected). For me, it's a big deal because of how dismissive many of the doubters have been about his ability to get back here. When someone pointed out the knee surgery, divorce, swing change etc, those were called excuses.

I have consistently argued that he could easily get 'back' and that his step off the pedestal was not a natural age-related decline, but an understandable consequence of the factors I just outlined. We are, as a society, far too willing to make a long-term determination on short term analysis. Therefore, I'm willing to say that his recent performance shows me that he can win multiple majors in the next year or two. I haven't felt that until his recent play.

And, I watch his play, not just the results. His game is back, at least right now. It could be gone tomorrow, but as the culmination of a 4 year process, I see a solid game that's similar to his dominant years.

Projected? Okay. Personally, I won't be surprised if he wins a Major this year, but I also won't be surprised if he doesn't either. Meanwhile, some of you are acting like it is a foregone conclusion.

This argument borders on idiotic. What will they say after he wins a major this year? He didn't win enough majors yet to be more than competitive?

Laughable.

Serious question: What will you say if he doesn't win a Major this year?

 

[Apple Jack]

What have we seen thus far that would lead us to believe he won't win a major this year? I'll hang up and listen.

He's struggling with right to left shots and will insist on trying to hit them, possibly with dire consequences. Historically, he's an extremely streaky putter and there's no telling when this streak will end. What if he becomes a sucker for Lindsey and she bails on him, which wouldn't surprise me at all. What if she catches him with his #### in the ### of a Wawa attendant at Merion and takes a 6-iron to him? Finally, Majors are hard to win. Oftentimes, it can come down to a random lucky break on Friday morning being the difference between winning and second place.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It's also possible that Woods will press on Sunday the way mortal players in contention do. I think we've actually seen some of that already last year.

I wouldn't bet on that happening, but if I were looking for reasons he might not win a major that'd be the top of my list.

 

[benztoronto]

The "first" one will be the hardest. After that, watch out.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Jack won 17 of his majors over a 19 season span, never went longer than 3 years without one (obvs the magical 1986 back 9 charge came after a 5+ year dry spell). Gary Player won majors over a 20 year span, longest winless span was 4 years. You can find exceptions - Sarazen won 3 when he was very young and 4 more a decade later in his 30s, but most great champions over the last 100 years have packed all their majors inside of 7 - 9 years (Hogan, Palmer, Watson). We've seen the one last hurrah (Trevino in 1984, Nicklaus in 1986), but those were one-shot deals, not a second sustained career like Woods is attempting to accomplish.All that said, he's been doing incredible things we never thought we'd see for 20 years. The odds are he doesn't catch Jack and doesn't have the sustained second career, simply because it's never been done. Yet it wouldn't surprise very many if he did exactly that - go out and reclaim his dominant in majors perch after a 5 year absence. I hope he does, because I've gotten more joy out of watching him compete than any other athlete of my lifetime.

I'd be shocked if Tiger's career post-40 doesn't blow Jacks out of the water. Nicklaus only won 2 PGA events and a Masters. He just wasn't motivated to play. Tiger will be. It'll be fun to watch the chase.

Very true. Jack was, as Chi Chi used to say, a legend in his spare time. After he broke Bobby Jones record ('75 PGA), he would play 12-14 events a year while everybody else was grinding 28-35 times a year. Designing 10 courses a year, manufacturing his own club line, etc. TW has two (stalled) courses to his credit with no desire to expand his architecture like Norman or Palmer, and while he does tons of endorsements, he has people that do a lot more for him than Jack or Arnie could ever count on.Health and putting yips - either one could derail him. But I don't think it will be distractions.

 

[Otis]

It's big news because its a harbinger of things to come (projected). For me, it's a big deal because of how dismissive many of the doubters have been about his ability to get back here. When someone pointed out the knee surgery, divorce, swing change etc, those were called excuses.

I have consistently argued that he could easily get 'back' and that his step off the pedestal was not a natural age-related decline, but an understandable consequence of the factors I just outlined. We are, as a society, far too willing to make a long-term determination on short term analysis. Therefore, I'm willing to say that his recent performance shows me that he can win multiple majors in the next year or two. I haven't felt that until his recent play.

And, I watch his play, not just the results. His game is back, at least right now. It could be gone tomorrow, but as the culmination of a 4 year process, I see a solid game that's similar to his dominant years.

Projected? Okay. Personally, I won't be surprised if he wins a Major this year, but I also won't be surprised if he doesn't either. Meanwhile, some of you are acting like it is a foregone conclusion.

This argument borders on idiotic. What will they say after he wins a major this year? He didn't win enough majors yet to be more than competitive?

Laughable.

Serious question: What will you say if he doesn't win a Major this year?

I covered this earlier. If he never wins more majors but remains the best golfer in the world, then Fin was half right. Or course he's not "done" or simply " competitive." Fin already struck out on those counts. But if he doesn't win any more majors than Jack's record would be looking safer and safer over time. But he'll win more majors. Plenty of them. Jack isn't out of the woods.

 

[derek245583]

Actually, when I remember back in 2002 at Murifield...Tiger got some bad breaks in the 3rd round or he probably would have won there as well..

So now, I am thinking 3 of the 4 majors are a :IBTL: ...the pressure cooker at the PGA championship will be immense. Tiger sucked last time at Oak Hill, so I am hesitant to call for a grand slam...this year.

Watch the #### out in 2014

 

[JuniorNB]

So now, I am thinking 3 of the 4 majors are a :IBTL: ...the pressure cooker at the PGA championship will be immense. Tiger sucked last time at Oak Hill, so I am hesitant to call for a grand slam...this year.

If he wins even two, he will be 'back' to the dominant Tiger of old.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Actually, when I remember back in 2002 at Murifield...Tiger got some bad breaks in the 3rd round or he probably would have won there as well..

The internet can help a faulty memory.My link

7 bogeys and 2 doubles is not a bad break or two. It was a tough day, but Els got around in 72, and only a handful did worse than TW.

Going into Muirfield, Woods had won 7 of 11 majors (best run of the modern era), and completed the Tiger slam - held all four titles at once. Muirfield was the first of a 10 major drought, third longest of his career. [ETA: 2nd longest; after his rookie year he also had 10 major winless streak between #1 and #2. Current drought is 18]

Saying he's a slam dunk for the Masters, or thinking he's a lock to win 2 or 3 this year, is overly simplistic and probably just trolling. It's pretty hard just to win one.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

The guy is a beast!

 

[Worm]

It's pretty hard just to win one.

Well, maybe for you.

 

[AAABatteries]

I hope he wins every non-major event he plays for the next 4 years but wins no majors. Will make this thread very entertaining for the rest of us.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I hope he wins every non-major event he plays for the next 4 years but wins no majors. Will make this thread very entertaining for the rest of us.

You may get your wish.If ends up with 90-100 wins, and 15-17 majors, the GoAT debate will never end.

 

[Apple Jack]

Gotta appreciate his new attempt to sell himself as more humble. It's brilliant. Keeps saying he's won five, now six, times "in the last couple years", instead of in the last year, now 53 weeks. He's deliberately downplaying it. That's new. Then in his press conference he was asked to compare his play now with the past and mentioned the big streak and said he won six in a row. It was seven, but who's counting. The latter actually came off as genuine. The former, not as much. He's definitely prepping to get back to his endorsement numbers as well.

ETA: One element of the GOAT has already been put to bed and that is that Tiger has played the best golf ever played. The greatest career of all-time is different.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Gotta appreciate his new attempt to sell himself as more humble. It's brilliant. Keeps saying he's won five, now six, times "in the last couple years", instead of in the last year, now 53 weeks. He's deliberately downplaying it. That's new. Then in his press conference he was asked to compare his play now with the past and mentioned the big streak and said he won six in a row. It was seven, but who's counting. The latter actually came off as genuine. The former, not as much. He's definitely prepping to get back to his endorsement numbers as well.

Based on his response to the question the sideline reporter asked him after Bay Hill about 'are you back without winning a major' I'd say Tiger has got a slow burn going no matter what fake humble he's showing on the outside.Seemed like he wanted to say '#### you sideline reporter, I just won for the third time in four starts.' But he gave some decidedly non '#### you' answer and said 'and that's enough about that.'No idea if that works to drive him or gets in the way of him winning, but I think he's pissed off about it all.

 

[Apple Jack]

Gotta appreciate his new attempt to sell himself as more humble. It's brilliant. Keeps saying he's won five, now six, times "in the last couple years", instead of in the last year, now 53 weeks. He's deliberately downplaying it. That's new. Then in his press conference he was asked to compare his play now with the past and mentioned the big streak and said he won six in a row. It was seven, but who's counting. The latter actually came off as genuine. The former, not as much. He's definitely prepping to get back to his endorsement numbers as well.

Based on his response to the question the sideline reporter asked him after Bay Hill about 'are you back without winning a major' I'd say Tiger has got a slow burn going no matter what fake humble he's showing on the outside.Seemed like he wanted to say '#### you sideline reporter, I just won for the third time in four starts.' But he gave some decidedly non '#### you' answer and said 'and that's enough about that.'No idea if that works to drive him or gets in the way of him winning, but I think he's pissed off about it all.

Somebody brings up "back" everywhere he goes where there is media. How he hasn't snapped yet and called them out for being idiots for playing into the utterly ridiculous back conversation is impressive. But he knows that a) they need a narrative to write and talk about because most people aren't interested in just watching and appreciating great play; they need to manufacture other drama and people seem to like that. 2) if he responds how any normal person would respond, it will cost him money and bring on annoyances. I love that he has not once given them the quote they want. He won't say it.

 

[Abraham]

Gotta appreciate his new attempt to sell himself as more humble. It's brilliant. Keeps saying he's won five, now six, times "in the last couple years", instead of in the last year, now 53 weeks. He's deliberately downplaying it. That's new. Then in his press conference he was asked to compare his play now with the past and mentioned the big streak and said he won six in a row. It was seven, but who's counting. The latter actually came off as genuine. The former, not as much. He's definitely prepping to get back to his endorsement numbers as well.

Based on his response to the question the sideline reporter asked him after Bay Hill about 'are you back without winning a major' I'd say Tiger has got a slow burn going no matter what fake humble he's showing on the outside.Seemed like he wanted to say '#### you sideline reporter, I just won for the third time in four starts.' But he gave some decidedly non '#### you' answer and said 'and that's enough about that.'No idea if that works to drive him or gets in the way of him winning, but I think he's pissed off about it all.

My perception is that he is mad about the idea that anyone in the world is a better golfer than he is. We saw it years ago when Vijay took over #1. He did an interview with 60 Minutes or Outside the Lines or someone about his swing overhaul and he was asked, "is Vijay the best golfer in the world?" to which he answered "He's ranked number one." Reporter asked again, "So is he the best golfer in the world?" Tiger smiled and said, "He's ranked number one." Then he went on a rein of terror and reclaimed the top spot. Who knows what motivates these guys. My opinion is that Tiger has had a lifelong obsession with being thought of as the best golfer ever to play. But its hard to keep that focus and energy for long periods of time....how many days can you wake up to go hit more range balls 'chasing the ghost of Jack!' But put it in the newspaper and on Sportscenter and on the internet that Rory McEllroy is the best there is, the new Tiger? Put Vijay Singh at the top of the rankings? Spend precious time covering (well-deserved) up and comers? Focus on Steve Williams being better off with Adam Scott? Now there is something specific to focus on. And he gets it back and wants to shut down the conversation about anyone other than him being the best golfer on the planet......and that's how we get where we are today.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Nicklaus was written off several times: winter of 1969-70 (hadn't won a major since the '67 US Open), after the winless 1979 season, which broke a 17 year streak (1962-78) of winning at least two events a year, much of the early 80s. The week he won his last Masters, he kept a recent article about him being finished taped to his refrigerator.

It's pretty obvious in post round interviews there are certain writers Tiger considers "pros" (Al Barkow, Dan Jenkins), and he has difficulty hiding his disdain for hacks or someone who has written/said anything critical (Alex Miceli). Hell, he wouldn't give Peter Kostis an interview for two plus years just because he didn't like the way he once broke down his swing on Konica Minolta Swing Vision.

 

[Doug B]

I hope he wins every non-major event he plays for the next 4 years but wins no majors. Will make this thread very entertaining for the rest of us.

For anyone who really roots against Tiger ... this is what you should be rooting for in terms of rooting for realistic "it could happen" outcomes. Root for for Tiger to basically turn into Greg Norman.

 

[dhockster]

What have we seen thus far that would lead us to believe he won't win a major this year? I'll hang up and listen.

He's struggling with right to left shots and will insist on trying to hit them, possibly with dire consequences. Historically, he's an extremely streaky putter and there's no telling when this streak will end. What if he becomes a sucker for Lindsey and she bails on him, which wouldn't surprise me at all. What if she catches him with his #### in the ### of a Wawa attendant at Merion and takes a 6-iron to him? Finally, Majors are hard to win. Oftentimes, it can come down to a random lucky break on Friday morning being the difference between winning and second place.

I love the use of the WaWa attendent since Merion is in the Philadelphia area. Nice work.

 

[James Daulton]

It's big news because its a harbinger of things to come (projected). For me, it's a big deal because of how dismissive many of the doubters have been about his ability to get back here. When someone pointed out the knee surgery, divorce, swing change etc, those were called excuses.

I have consistently argued that he could easily get 'back' and that his step off the pedestal was not a natural age-related decline, but an understandable consequence of the factors I just outlined. We are, as a society, far too willing to make a long-term determination on short term analysis. Therefore, I'm willing to say that his recent performance shows me that he can win multiple majors in the next year or two. I haven't felt that until his recent play.

And, I watch his play, not just the results. His game is back, at least right now. It could be gone tomorrow, but as the culmination of a 4 year process, I see a solid game that's similar to his dominant years.

Projected? Okay. Personally, I won't be surprised if he wins a Major this year, but I also won't be surprised if he doesn't either. Meanwhile, some of you are acting like it is a foregone conclusion.

This argument borders on idiotic. What will they say after he wins a major this year? He didn't win enough majors yet to be more than competitive?

Laughable.

Serious question: What will you say if he doesn't win a Major this year?

I covered this earlier. If he never wins more majors but remains the best golfer in the world, then Fin was half right. Or course he's not "done" or simply " competitive." Fin already struck out on those counts. But if he doesn't win any more majors than Jack's record would be looking safer and safer over time. But he'll win more majors. Plenty of them. Jack isn't out of the woods.

For the last time, when NostraFinless made his amazing prediction, Tiger was winning regular golf events and majors at a clip never before seen. He'd just about never blown a 54 hole lead in a major. When he was in the lead it was a foregone conclusion that he would win, other players would openly talk about him being unbeatable when he had the lead. He was set to crush Jack's records and re-write all others.Fast forward to today, he hasn't won another major. No one talks about fearing him anymore. He's lost 54 hole leads. He's currenntly winning tourneys at a good clip, but we've seen other players duplicate this kind of run for a short time. He will not be BACK until he wins another major. When he does that, we can say he's BACK.

 

[Apple Jack]

It's big news because its a harbinger of things to come (projected). For me, it's a big deal because of how dismissive many of the doubters have been about his ability to get back here. When someone pointed out the knee surgery, divorce, swing change etc, those were called excuses.

I have consistently argued that he could easily get 'back' and that his step off the pedestal was not a natural age-related decline, but an understandable consequence of the factors I just outlined. We are, as a society, far too willing to make a long-term determination on short term analysis. Therefore, I'm willing to say that his recent performance shows me that he can win multiple majors in the next year or two. I haven't felt that until his recent play.

And, I watch his play, not just the results. His game is back, at least right now. It could be gone tomorrow, but as the culmination of a 4 year process, I see a solid game that's similar to his dominant years.

Projected? Okay. Personally, I won't be surprised if he wins a Major this year, but I also won't be surprised if he doesn't either. Meanwhile, some of you are acting like it is a foregone conclusion.

This argument borders on idiotic. What will they say after he wins a major this year? He didn't win enough majors yet to be more than competitive?

Laughable.

Serious question: What will you say if he doesn't win a Major this year?

I covered this earlier. If he never wins more majors but remains the best golfer in the world, then Fin was half right. Or course he's not "done" or simply " competitive." Fin already struck out on those counts. But if he doesn't win any more majors than Jack's record would be looking safer and safer over time. But he'll win more majors. Plenty of them. Jack isn't out of the woods.

For the last time, when NostraFinless made his amazing prediction, Tiger was winning regular golf events and majors at a clip never before seen. He'd just about never blown a 54 hole lead in a major. When he was in the lead it was a foregone conclusion that he would win, other players would openly talk about him being unbeatable when he had the lead. He was set to crush Jack's records and re-write all others.Fast forward to today, he hasn't won another major. No one talks about fearing him anymore. He's lost 54 hole leads. He's currenntly winning tourneys at a good clip, but we've seen other players duplicate this kind of run for a short time. He will not be BACK until he wins another major. When he does that, we can say he's BACK.

He made his predication based on nothing that had anything to do with his slump and ended up getting lucky. You think he saw his personal life falling apart, additional injuries, and a swing change coming? No, I don't read his comments as suggesting that. ANd even through the biggest slump of his career he was still more competitive than any other non-winner in those Majors cumulatively. You guys are giving this Finless person way too much credit for getting lucky. The reality is that the swing change took just a little bit longer than the prior changes to show results, with an additional time factor a result of injuries.

 

[Brony]

Fast forward to today, he hasn't won another major. No one talks about fearing him anymore. He's lost 54 hole leads. He's currenntly winning tourneys at a good clip, but we've seen other players duplicate this kind of run for a short time. He will not be BACK until he wins another major. When he does that, we can say he's BACK.

You know why they're not talking about fearing him: 'cause they're scared. THAT is how good the new Tiger is.

 

[derek245583]

Here is who I predict to come in second place at the majors this year:

Masters: Brandt Snedeker

US Open: Michael Thompson

British Open: Chris Kirk

PGA Championship: Rory Mcilroy

 

[Apple Jack]

Here is who I predict to come in second place at the majors this year:Masters: Louie OostheisenUS Open: Tiger WoodsBritish Open: Justin RosePGA Championship: Otis

FIFY

 

[James Daulton]

It's big news because its a harbinger of things to come (projected). For me, it's a big deal because of how dismissive many of the doubters have been about his ability to get back here. When someone pointed out the knee surgery, divorce, swing change etc, those were called excuses.

I have consistently argued that he could easily get 'back' and that his step off the pedestal was not a natural age-related decline, but an understandable consequence of the factors I just outlined. We are, as a society, far too willing to make a long-term determination on short term analysis. Therefore, I'm willing to say that his recent performance shows me that he can win multiple majors in the next year or two. I haven't felt that until his recent play.

And, I watch his play, not just the results. His game is back, at least right now. It could be gone tomorrow, but as the culmination of a 4 year process, I see a solid game that's similar to his dominant years.

Projected? Okay. Personally, I won't be surprised if he wins a Major this year, but I also won't be surprised if he doesn't either. Meanwhile, some of you are acting like it is a foregone conclusion.

This argument borders on idiotic. What will they say after he wins a major this year? He didn't win enough majors yet to be more than competitive?

Laughable.

Serious question: What will you say if he doesn't win a Major this year?

I covered this earlier. If he never wins more majors but remains the best golfer in the world, then Fin was half right. Or course he's not "done" or simply " competitive." Fin already struck out on those counts. But if he doesn't win any more majors than Jack's record would be looking safer and safer over time. But he'll win more majors. Plenty of them. Jack isn't out of the woods.

For the last time, when NostraFinless made his amazing prediction, Tiger was winning regular golf events and majors at a clip never before seen. He'd just about never blown a 54 hole lead in a major. When he was in the lead it was a foregone conclusion that he would win, other players would openly talk about him being unbeatable when he had the lead. He was set to crush Jack's records and re-write all others.Fast forward to today, he hasn't won another major. No one talks about fearing him anymore. He's lost 54 hole leads. He's currenntly winning tourneys at a good clip, but we've seen other players duplicate this kind of run for a short time. He will not be BACK until he wins another major. When he does that, we can say he's BACK.

He made his predication based on nothing that had anything to do with his slump and ended up getting lucky. You think he saw his personal life falling apart, additional injuries, and a swing change coming? No, I don't read his comments as suggesting that. ANd even through the biggest slump of his career he was still more competitive than any other non-winner in those Majors cumulatively. You guys are giving this Finless person way too much credit for getting lucky. The reality is that the swing change took just a little bit longer than the prior changes to show results, with an additional time factor a result of injuries.

You are correct. NostraFinless made his amazing prediction based on nothing but his own incredible powers.

 

[Judge Smails]

It's also possible that Woods will press on Sunday the way mortal players in contention do. I think we've actually seen some of that already last year.I wouldn't bet on that happening, but if I were looking for reasons he might not win a major that'd be the top of my list.

Great point. In the last 2 tournaments he has won he has tightened up a bit at the end. Maybe it's managing his game, avoiding areas where he can take big numbers, but his swing changed a bit too. More defensive. Gets in fairway and greenside bunkers that he didn't get into for the first 15 holes. But then he nails a huge putt or hits a monster iron out of a trap over water to the perfect spot on the green. So he's not choking, but he is thinking about it a bit more.

 

[BobbyLayne]

It's also possible that Woods will press on Sunday the way mortal players in contention do. I think we've actually seen some of that already last year.

I wouldn't bet on that happening, but if I were looking for reasons he might not win a major that'd be the top of my list.

Great point. In the last 2 tournaments he has won he has tightened up a bit at the end. Maybe it's managing his game, avoiding areas where he can take big numbers, but his swing changed a bit too. More defensive. Gets in fairway and greenside bunkers that he didn't get into for the first 15 holes. But then he nails a huge putt or hits a monster iron out of a trap over water to the perfect spot on the green. So he's not choking, but he is thinking about it a bit more.

Loved that decision, especially right on top of Ricky dunking it. He knew Rose had just birdied #16 so he never thought about laying up there - wasn't an easy two-putt from the top shelf, but he knew birdie would push it back to 3, no need to go at that sucker pin and make eagle.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

A couple of things to consider here:

Was Tiger "back" when he won four times at Bay Hill since his last victory at Augusta, or three times in the last four years since his last major victory?

Winning Arnie's tournament never has been a pre-cursor to future success. Tiger has never won Bay Hill and the Masters in the same year. Bay Hill is one the handful of courses he simply dominates, much like Muirfield. He's won the Memorial five times, including last year, getting everyone lathered up. But only once did he followed that up with a win in the U.S. Open, and that was back in 2000.

Of course, Augusta is one of the other courses where he has piled up a bunch of wins, but none since 2005. I'll reserve judgment for a couple more weeks.

 

[TobiasFunke]

A couple of things to consider here:

Was Tiger "back" when he won four times at Bay Hill since his last victory at Augusta, or three times in the last four years since his last major victory?

Winning Arnie's tournament never has been a pre-cursor to future success. Tiger has never won Bay Hill and the Masters in the same year. Bay Hill is one the handful of courses he simply dominates, much like Muirfield. He's won the Memorial five times, including last year, getting everyone lathered up. But only once did he followed that up with a win in the U.S. Open, and that was back in 2000.

Of course, Augusta is one of the other courses where he has piled up a bunch of wins, but none since 2005. I'll reserve judgment for a couple more weeks.

Good idea. Don't judge a guy based on one tournament. Instead, wait a couple weeks, then judge a guy based on one tournament.

 

[Dark Matter]

For the last time...

 

[dparker713]

I hope he wins every non-major event he plays for the next 4 years but wins no majors. Will make this thread very entertaining for the rest of us.

You may get your wish.If ends up with 90-100 wins, and 15-17 majors, the GoAT debate will never end.

He's already the GOAT.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

A couple of things to consider here:

Was Tiger "back" when he won four times at Bay Hill since his last victory at Augusta, or three times in the last four years since his last major victory?

Winning Arnie's tournament never has been a pre-cursor to future success. Tiger has never won Bay Hill and the Masters in the same year. Bay Hill is one the handful of courses he simply dominates, much like Muirfield. He's won the Memorial five times, including last year, getting everyone lathered up. But only once did he followed that up with a win in the U.S. Open, and that was back in 2000.

Of course, Augusta is one of the other courses where he has piled up a bunch of wins, but none since 2005. I'll reserve judgment for a couple more weeks.

Good idea. Don't judge a guy based on one tournament. Instead, wait a couple weeks, then judge a guy based on one tournament.

But I wouldn't be judging him only on a win at Augusta. That would be the finishing touch on an impressive body of work. Do you think if Tiger doesn't win the Masters, he's going to say, "Well, at least I won at Bay Hill" ?

 

[sho nuff]

It wasn't about winning bay hill.

Its about the control he is showing with his irons and how he is putting right now.

 

[dparker713]

It's also possible that Woods will press on Sunday the way mortal players in contention do. I think we've actually seen some of that already last year.I wouldn't bet on that happening, but if I were looking for reasons he might not win a major that'd be the top of my list.

Great point. In the last 2 tournaments he has won he has tightened up a bit at the end. Maybe it's managing his game, avoiding areas where he can take big numbers, but his swing changed a bit too. More defensive. Gets in fairway and greenside bunkers that he didn't get into for the first 15 holes. But then he nails a huge putt or hits a monster iron out of a trap over water to the perfect spot on the green. So he's not choking, but he is thinking about it a bit more.

He's been playing defensive golf at the end of his last two tournaments because his lead has allowed him to.

 

[TobiasFunke]

A couple of things to consider here:

Was Tiger "back" when he won four times at Bay Hill since his last victory at Augusta, or three times in the last four years since his last major victory?

Winning Arnie's tournament never has been a pre-cursor to future success. Tiger has never won Bay Hill and the Masters in the same year. Bay Hill is one the handful of courses he simply dominates, much like Muirfield. He's won the Memorial five times, including last year, getting everyone lathered up. But only once did he followed that up with a win in the U.S. Open, and that was back in 2000.

Of course, Augusta is one of the other courses where he has piled up a bunch of wins, but none since 2005. I'll reserve judgment for a couple more weeks.

Good idea. Don't judge a guy based on one tournament. Instead, wait a couple weeks, then judge a guy based on one tournament.

But I wouldn't be judging him only on a win at Augusta. That would be the finishing touch on an impressive body of work. Do you think if Tiger doesn't win the Masters, he's going to say, "Well, at least I won at Bay Hill" ?

No. But it's not going to change the fact that he's easily the best golfer in the world right now and that he's on an impressive run of results over the last year or so. It has very little to do with Bay Hill; that was just one more win, one more top ten finish in what is now a long string of them. Everyone wants to ask a different question, but to me the main question in this thread and for all sports fans was/is this "will Tiger ever be the guy everyone in the sport is looking up at again, the guy who's the favorite in every tournament he enters?" The answer is obviously yes. He's there now. In fact I think he was there before Bay Hill. He might need a major win to validate his "return" for casual fans, argumentative people and for history. But everyone else already knows he's the best again.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Go back to roughly Page 34-35 of this thread and you'll see a lot of comments about dominating the field, great putting, he's got "the look", etc. etc. etc. That was after last year's Bay Hill. Two weeks later, he was +5 and T40 at Augusta.

I'd venture to guess that Tiger was the "favorite" to win at least half of the majors in the last four years, if not more. I know he was the Vegas favorite last year. Didn't mean a thing once they teed it up Thursday morning.

He could easily win at Augusta in two weeks, or his "slump" could continue. Dominating Bay Hill again doesn't convince me one way or another of which one will happen.

 

[Apple Jack]

Go back to roughly Page 34-35 of this thread and you'll see a lot of comments about dominating the field, great putting, he's got "the look", etc. etc. etc. That was after last year's Bay Hill. Two weeks later, he was +5 and T40 at Augusta.I'd venture to guess that Tiger was the "favorite" to win at least half of the majors in the last four years, if not more. I know he was the Vegas favorite last year. Didn't mean a thing once they teed it up Thursday morning. He could easily win at Augusta in two weeks, or his "slump" could continue. Dominating Bay Hill again doesn't convince me one way or another of which one will happen.

Six wins in 53 weeks is really a wicked slump. No worse bottom for a slump than 100 putts in 72 holes and winning three out of four stroke play events.There's a difference between winning his first tour event in 2+ years and winning that event again the following year as the sixth in 53 weeks. It has nothing to do with Bay Hill. It has everything to do with the state of his golf game.

 

[sho nuff]

Go back to roughly Page 34-35 of this thread and you'll see a lot of comments about dominating the field, great putting, he's got "the look", etc. etc. etc. That was after last year's Bay Hill. Two weeks later, he was +5 and T40 at Augusta.I'd venture to guess that Tiger was the "favorite" to win at least half of the majors in the last four years, if not more. I know he was the Vegas favorite last year. Didn't mean a thing once they teed it up Thursday morning. He could easily win at Augusta in two weeks, or his "slump" could continue. Dominating Bay Hill again doesn't convince me one way or another of which one will happen.

He wasn't putting like this then. Not even close.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

How many players have won three times in four starts in, say, the last ten years?

 

[-jb-]

I've been unsuccessful in finding how many courses Woods has won on. Not tournaments, courses. Anyone know?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Go back to roughly Page 34-35 of this thread and you'll see a lot of comments about dominating the field, great putting, he's got "the look", etc. etc. etc. That was after last year's Bay Hill. Two weeks later, he was +5 and T40 at Augusta.

I'd venture to guess that Tiger was the "favorite" to win at least half of the majors in the last four years, if not more. I know he was the Vegas favorite last year. Didn't mean a thing once they teed it up Thursday morning.

He could easily win at Augusta in two weeks, or his "slump" could continue. Dominating Bay Hill again doesn't convince me one way or another of which one will happen.

Sure. But this has been true at every stage of Tiger's career, and at every stage of the career of every great golfer ever. It's the nature of the game. The only golfer who's ever been close to the odds-on favorite to win a particular tournament was Tiger in 2000-2001, and nobody's ever argued about whether he'd reach that level again, because the answer is obvious.You seem to be evaluating greatness based on a single result, or in the case of last year's majors, a small handful of results. If you want to ask the question of whether Tiger will ever win this tournament or that tournament again, fine, but the answer will always be couched in terms of probabilities, not certainty. Because like I said, that's how the sport works. It's likely that nobody is ever gonna be a true odds-on favorite to win a tournament; anyone who's ever bet on the sport will tell you that if you see anything remotely close to even money on anyone in any tournament, it's a sucker's bet. So I don't even know what question you'd be answering with one or a small handful of results. IMO the only useful question since the injuries and the skanks and the divorce was whether he'd be the best in the world again, the favorite in every tournament he enters. He's there now, case closed.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I've been unsuccessful in finding how many courses Woods has won on. Not tournaments, courses. Anyone know?

Looks like he's won at least 29 different tournaments on the PGA Tour. So assuming some of his PGA and US Open wins were on different courses it should be more than 30 not counting any of his overseas wins. Maybe around 40 total?

 

[Otis]

So now, I am thinking 3 of the 4 majors are a :IBTL: ...the pressure cooker at the PGA championship will be immense. Tiger sucked last time at Oak Hill, so I am hesitant to call for a grand slam...this year.

If he wins even two, he will be 'back' to the dominant Tiger of old.

What about one?

 

[gump]

Dominating Bay Hill again doesn't convince me one way or another of which one will happen.

Me either. Winning 6 times in 20 with 5 other top 5s does though.

 

[Apple Jack]

I've been unsuccessful in finding how many courses Woods has won on. Not tournaments, courses. Anyone know?

No, but assuming PGA Tour events my guess would be 30-35.ETA: Counting Disney, Vegas, Pebble, Torrey, etc as one course.