timdraft #4: Movie Category Draft (1 Viewer)

[BobbyLayne]

Softcore porn ok, right?

IKIWISI

 

[timschochet]

In so far: (drafters)

timschochet

jwb

Time Kibitzer

rikishiboy

BobbyLayne (looking for partner)

Karma Police

AcerFC

Tish

higgins

DougB

Kumerica

joffer

Andy Dufresne

Usual21

Aerial Assault

hooter311

krista4

That's 17. Suggest we max out at 25. Any objections?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I;m in for this one

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Am I the only one who thinks drafting movie scenes is way too fickle? Like for starters, many scenes don't really stand up to being relevant if you ignore the rest of the film. Like for best dance scene, what can make a dance scene great is all the stuff that happens in the film prior to that scene, focusing on just a 5min clip would likely cause the viewer to miss out on what actually makes this scene memorable/interesting. And how would you go about defining what a scene is? Some last just 1-2min, others for 10-20+ min, how is one supposed to compare such differences? Not to mention if you have to find the scene clip on youtube you're really restricting what the drafters can take, and really it'd give the drafters a pretty big incentive to draft more mainstream Hollywood films since it'd be way easier to find; maybe some would prefer that but personally those aren't the kind of films I'm generally interested in.

I like a lot of KP's ideas for movie categories like movies that start with the end scene, movies where an actor plays multiple roles, movies that under 90min in length, etc., but personally I don't think the drafting of scenes idea would work all that well.

 

[timschochet]

OK, after reviewing the categories, I am going to suggest we divide it 3 ways: 10 categories for movies, 14 categories for scenes, 6 categories for portrayals.

Movies

1. Adultery/sex

2. Drugs

3. England

4. Spies

5. Nazis

6. New York

7. Outer Space

8. Rock and Roll

9. Superheroes

10. No idea what this movie is about

Scenes

1. shocking scene

2. Dance scene

3. romantic gesture

4. shootout

5. fight scene

6. gambling scene

7. car chase

8. monologue (speech)

9. courtroom scene

10. classroom scene

11. most dramatic sports scene

12. most realistic sports scene

13. dream sequence

14. scene that scared you as a kid

Portayals

1. worst movie parent

2. best movie parent

3. dramatic actor in a comedic role

4. comedic actor in a dramatic role

5. best performance by child actor

6. best portrayal of a real/historical person

These are the ones I believe would work the best and be the most interesting. But let me know what you guys think.

 

[timschochet]

Am I the only one who thinks drafting movie scenes is way too fickle? Like for starters, many scenes don't really stand up to being relevant if you ignore the rest of the film. Like for best dance scene, what can make a dance scene great is all the stuff that happens in the film prior to that scene, focusing on just a 5min clip would likely cause the viewer to miss out on what actually makes this scene memorable/interesting. And how would you go about defining what a scene is? Some last just 1-2min, others for 10-20+ min, how is one supposed to compare such differences? Not to mention if you have to find the scene clip on youtube you're really restricting what the drafters can take, and really it'd give the drafters a pretty big incentive to draft more mainstream Hollywood films since it'd be way easier to find; maybe some would prefer that but personally those aren't the kind of films I'm generally interested in.

I'd like to try it out. No one's done anything like it before, so far as I know. I think it could work.

 

[timschochet]

I left out a few categories like mulitple characters played by one actor, and movies that begin with the end. These are interesting subjects, but they're top heavy. My experience after doing enough of these drafts is that we should avoid categories that are obviously top heavy.

 

[timschochet]

NO mulligans.

NO category switching.

You draft it, you own it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Am I the only one who thinks drafting movie scenes is way too fickle? Like for starters, many scenes don't really stand up to being relevant if you ignore the rest of the film. Like for best dance scene, what can make a dance scene great is all the stuff that happens in the film prior to that scene, focusing on just a 5min clip would likely cause the viewer to miss out on what actually makes this scene memorable/interesting. And how would you go about defining what a scene is? Some last just 1-2min, others for 10-20+ min, how is one supposed to compare such differences? Not to mention if you have to find the scene clip on youtube you're really restricting what the drafters can take, and really it'd give the drafters a pretty big incentive to draft more mainstream Hollywood films since it'd be way easier to find; maybe some would prefer that but personally those aren't the kind of films I'm generally interested in.

I get what you are saying about how to define a "scene". I think I am 50/50 - there are great scenes in movies that I don't consider to be that good that stand on their own. Without being too specific - especially comedy movies. There are a lot of funny things that stand out to me. If we just draft comedy movies - it will be the same #### we see on every list. Mixing in scenes in there would broaden the movies taken and give us more variety (maybe, or maybe people will just take a scene from the usual "funny" movies). Maybe we have to limit it - say nothing over 5 mins so the scene stands on it's own? I think it is definitely doable. I don't think something MUST be on youtube to be able to draft it, but it would help the judges. Most we will know, or find on youtube - but I bet judges can get their hands on the material through netflix, the library, etc..

 

[Doug B]

Not to mention if you have to find the scene clip on youtube you're really restricting what the drafters can take, and really it'd give the drafters a pretty big incentive to draft more mainstream Hollywood films since it'd be way easier to find; maybe some would prefer that but personally those aren't the kind of films I'm generally interested in.

... I don't think the drafting of scenes idea would work all that well.

One of the factors that make movie judging difficult, as mentioned upthread by KP, is feeling like one has to watch the full length all of the movies drafted in order to render judgment**. Narrowing it down to scenes was a way to lessen that burden.** I, on the other hand, feel there's nothing wrong with "reputational judging", where a judge may research criticisms of a movie he/she hasn't seen, refer to lists, etc., and pass judgment largely based on the movie's prevailing reputation.

 

[KarmaPolice]

OK, after reviewing the categories, I am going to suggest we divide it 3 ways: 10 categories for movies, 14 categories for scenes, 6 categories for portrayals.

Movies

1. Adultery/sex

2. Drugs

3. England

4. Spies

5. Nazis

6. New York

7. Outer Space

8. Rock and Roll

9. Superheroes

10. No idea what this movie is about

Scenes

1. shocking scene

2. Dance scene

3. romantic gesture

4. shootout

5. fight scene

6. gambling scene

7. car chase

8. monologue (speech)

9. courtroom scene

10. classroom scene

11. most dramatic sports scene

12. most realistic sports scene

13. dream sequence

14. scene that scared you as a kid

Portayals

1. worst movie parent

2. best movie parent

3. dramatic actor in a comedic role

4. comedic actor in a dramatic role

5. best performance by child actor

6. best portrayal of a real/historical person

These are the ones I believe would work the best and be the most interesting. But let me know what you guys think.

I am a big advocate of putting in long take somehow and I would even be willing to judge that one. The ones I would vote to replace are most dramatic sports scene, since that is basically every single one of them and maybe the scene that scared you as a kid could be another one that is tricky to judge. Also don't know if doubling up on the comedic actor/dramatic role and the parent categories might be a little redundant too.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

When do I pick?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Also, maybe I am just too focused on narrowing it down - WTF are you getting at with categories like "nazis". Nazi occupied countries, featuring nazis, about Hitler, nazi zombies, up to the judge, all of the above? I guess I am just not getting the broad movie categories, and am trying to avoid BS arguments we saw in the song draft - I know, good luck with that.

 

[timschochet]

Also, maybe I am just too focused on narrowing it down - WTF are you getting at with categories like "nazis". Nazi occupied countries, featuring nazis, about Hitler, nazi zombies, up to the judge, all of the above? I guess I am just not getting the broad movie categories, and am trying to avoid BS arguments we saw in the song draft - I know, good luck with that.

All of those work. If there's a swastika, draft it. I will judge.

 

[KarmaPolice]

OK, after reviewing the categories, I am going to suggest we divide it 3 ways: 10 categories for movies, 14 categories for scenes, 6 categories for portrayals.

Movies

1. Adultery/sex

2. Drugs

3. England

4. Spies

5. Nazis

6. New York

7. Outer Space

8. Rock and Roll

9. Superheroes

10. No idea what this movie is about

Scenes

1. shocking scene

2. Dance scene

3. romantic gesture

4. shootout

5. fight scene

6. gambling scene

7. car chase

8. monologue (speech)

9. courtroom scene

10. classroom scene Replace one with scene in movie where they are shooting a movie?

11. most dramatic sports scene Replace with long take?

12. most realistic sports scene

13. dream sequence

14. scene that scared you as a kid

Portayals

1. worst movie parent

2. best movie parent

3. dramatic actor in a comedic role

4. comedic actor in a dramatic role Replace one with Multiple performances in a movie?

5. best performance by child actor

6. best portrayal of a real/historical person

These are the ones I believe would work the best and be the most interesting. But let me know what you guys think.

I posted my couple suggestions. I like the idea of breaking them up into categories like that. IMO I wish we could feature directors a little more somehow though - debut, swan song, maybe the long take goes in there, etc.. Just spitballin' here.

 

[timschochet]

OK, after reviewing the categories, I am going to suggest we divide it 3 ways: 10 categories for movies, 14 categories for scenes, 6 categories for portrayals.

Movies

1. Adultery/sex

2. Drugs

3. England

4. Spies

5. Nazis

6. New York

7. Outer Space

8. Rock and Roll

9. Superheroes

10. No idea what this movie is about

Scenes

1. shocking scene

2. Dance scene

3. romantic gesture

4. shootout

5. fight scene

6. gambling scene

7. car chase

8. monologue (speech)

9. courtroom scene

10. classroom scene Replace one with scene in movie where they are shooting a movie?

11. most dramatic sports scene Replace with long take?

12. most realistic sports scene

13. dream sequence

14. scene that scared you as a kid

Portayals

1. worst movie parent

2. best movie parent

3. dramatic actor in a comedic role

4. comedic actor in a dramatic role Replace one with Multiple performances in a movie?

5. best performance by child actor

6. best portrayal of a real/historical person

These are the ones I believe would work the best and be the most interesting. But let me know what you guys think.

I posted my couple suggestions. I like the idea of breaking them up into categories like that. IMO I wish we could feature directors a little more somehow though - debut, swan song, maybe the long take goes in there, etc.. Just spitballin' here.

Sounds good to me, except fpr multiple performances- too top heavy. Let me work on it some more.

 

[KarmaPolice]

My concern about a couple of the movie categories = we will get 15 picks featuring 3 movie franchises.

 

[Tiananmen Tank]

I'd like the join, if possible.

 

[KarmaPolice]

NO mulligans.NO category switching.You draft it, you own it.

I guess I would say you draft the movie, you own it but you could move it if need be. you are the law though.

 

[timschochet]

My concern about a couple of the movie categories = we will get 15 picks featuring 3 movie franchises.

then let's not allow it. You get one film from a franchise. Once the film is taken, no other picks from that franchise are allowed.

 

[mad sweeney]

My unsolicited, uninvolved two cents:

Switching categories should be allowed, its s valuable tool.

Top heavy categories are fine, it's part of draft strategy to decide when/if to take the clear top slots. It's not like real life drafts don't have top heavy positions.

 

[higgins]

NO mulligans.

NO category switching.

You draft it, you own it.

I don't think most would have a problem with these, tim. But it would be nice to have the judges state their criteria in advance, and I'm all for delaying the draft a couple/few days to allow for this.

 

[timschochet]

My unsolicited, uninvolved two cents:Switching categories should be allowed, its s valuable tool. Top heavy categories are fine, it's part of draft strategy to decide when/if to take the clear top slots. It's not like real life drafts don't have top heavy positions.

Good points. OK, we'll allow switching and I'll find room for multiple performances.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Haven't drafted in a while, and never in a Timdraft. If there is a slot, I would like to be in.

 

[KarmaPolice]

My unsolicited, uninvolved two cents:

Switching categories should be allowed, its s valuable tool.

Top heavy categories are fine, it's part of draft strategy to decide when/if to take the clear top slots. It's not like real life drafts don't have top heavy positions.

This. Plus you never know with the judge where the value will be placed. Is it on the best performance, the best example of a movie with that performance, a mix thereof, just the best movie selected, etc..

Also, what has helped in the past is trying to get as many of the categories assigned to judges right away - then they could post criteria, answer questions, etc..

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Not to mention if you have to find the scene clip on youtube you're really restricting what the drafters can take, and really it'd give the drafters a pretty big incentive to draft more mainstream Hollywood films since it'd be way easier to find; maybe some would prefer that but personally those aren't the kind of films I'm generally interested in.

... I don't think the drafting of scenes idea would work all that well.

One of the factors that make movie judging difficult, as mentioned upthread by KP, is feeling like one has to watch the full length all of the movies drafted in order to render judgment**. Narrowing it down to scenes was a way to lessen that burden.** I, on the other hand, feel there's nothing wrong with "reputational judging", where a judge may research criticisms of a movie he/she hasn't seen, refer to lists, etc., and pass judgment largely based on the movie's prevailing reputation.

Well if 'reputational judging' is allowed, judging scenes would likely be a greater burden than judging movies since you're less likely to find individual movie scenes being discussed/ranked online than you are full movies. Then there's the added burden of drafters having to find clips on youtube, and then judges finding copies of the film if the scenes aren't already on youtube.Though really, I think perhaps the chief problem with drafting scenes is that, as KP hinted at earlier, although it might work fine with the majority of comedic scenes, many scenes from more dramatic films don't really hold up as stand alone 5 minute clips, it's only in proper context that they're memorable/interesting.

 

[KarmaPolice]

My concern about a couple of the movie categories = we will get 15 picks featuring 3 movie franchises.

then let's not allow it. You get one film from a franchise. Once the film is taken, no other picks from that franchise are allowed.

Period? So if I draft Leprechaun as an Irish movie, nobody else can draft that or any other movie in the franchise for another category? Ie somebody else can't have Leprechaun in the Hood as scariest scene?

 

[timschochet]

My concern about a couple of the movie categories = we will get 15 picks featuring 3 movie franchises.

then let's not allow it. You get one film from a franchise. Once the film is taken, no other picks from that franchise are allowed.

Period? So if I draft Leprechaun as an Irish movie, nobody else can draft that or any other movie in the franchise for another category? Ie somebody else can't have Leprechaun in the Hood as scariest scene?

Sure, why not?

 

[Brony]

shlong shotbest performance by a child actor

I would like to judge this.

 

[KarmaPolice]

My concern about a couple of the movie categories = we will get 15 picks featuring 3 movie franchises.

then let's not allow it. You get one film from a franchise. Once the film is taken, no other picks from that franchise are allowed.

Period? So if I draft Leprechaun as an Irish movie, nobody else can draft that or any other movie in the franchise for another category? Ie somebody else can't have Leprechaun in the Hood as scariest scene?

Sure, why not?

I am down with it. Make us mix it up or strategize more.

 

[KarmaPolice]

shlong shotbest performance by a child actor

I would like to judge this.

Just hope you didn't combine those 2 categories.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not to mention if you have to find the scene clip on youtube you're really restricting what the drafters can take, and really it'd give the drafters a pretty big incentive to draft more mainstream Hollywood films since it'd be way easier to find; maybe some would prefer that but personally those aren't the kind of films I'm generally interested in.

... I don't think the drafting of scenes idea would work all that well.

One of the factors that make movie judging difficult, as mentioned upthread by KP, is feeling like one has to watch the full length all of the movies drafted in order to render judgment**. Narrowing it down to scenes was a way to lessen that burden.** I, on the other hand, feel there's nothing wrong with "reputational judging", where a judge may research criticisms of a movie he/she hasn't seen, refer to lists, etc., and pass judgment largely based on the movie's prevailing reputation.

Well if 'reputational judging' is allowed, judging scenes would likely be a greater burden than judging movies since you're less likely to find individual movie scenes being discussed/ranked online than you are full movies. Then there's the added burden of drafters having to find clips on youtube, and then judges finding copies of the film if the scenes aren't already on youtube.Though really, I think perhaps the chief problem with drafting scenes is that, as KP hinted at earlier, although it might work fine with the majority of comedic scenes, many scenes from more dramatic films don't really hold up as stand alone 5 minute clips, it's only in proper context that they're memorable/interesting.

But a lot of the suggestions for the scene categories will stand on their own- is best car chase, best shoot out, etc...

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'll be in for this one if there's still room.

 

[timschochet]

OK, a few changes:

Movies

1. Adultery/sex

2. Drugs

3. England

4. Spies

5. Nazis

6. New York

7. Outer Space

8. Rock and Roll

9. Superheroes

10. No idea what this movie is about

Scenes

1. shocking scene

2. Dance scene

3. romantic gesture

4. shootout

5. fight scene

6. gambling scene

7. car chase

8. monologue (speech)

9. courtroom scene

10. classroom scene

11. shooting a movie scene

12. most realistic sports scene

13. dream sequence

14. scene that scared you as a kid

15. long take

Portayals

1. multiple performances in a movie

2. best movie parent

3. dramatic actor in a comedic role

4. best performance by child actor

5. best portrayal of a real/historical person

 

[Aerial Assault]

So the answer to my question from earlier is what? Are judges expected to watch the movies in their categories? How does this aspect work, anybody? I tried to be self-deprecating in asking this before, but that didn't work out, so now I'll just be a doosh.

 

[timschochet]

So the answer to my question from earlier is what? Are judges expected to watch the movies in their categories? How does this aspect work, anybody? I tried to be self-deprecating in asking this before, but that didn't work out, so now I'll just be a doosh.

I'm not going to demand of any judge that they sit through every movie- otherwise we'll never get to the judging. I would hope they are familar with the film and have seen it in the past. If not, perhaps in those rare cases we could request a guest judge who has seen the film to give it a proper ranking.For the scene categories, I would like each judge to watch each scene on Youtube. I would hope that everyone who volunteers to be a judge will know something about the subject. I'm judging Nazi flicks and I feel pretty confident about that, since I think I've seen just about every major Nazi flick that's ever come out (and most minor ones as well). I would not be a good judge for the drug movies, since I've only seen a few of those.

 

[Aerial Assault]

So the answer to my question from earlier is what? Are judges expected to watch the movies in their categories? How does this aspect work, anybody? I tried to be self-deprecating in asking this before, but that didn't work out, so now I'll just be a doosh.

I'm not going to demand of any judge that they sit through every movie- otherwise we'll never get to the judging. I would hope they are familar with the film and have seen it in the past. If not, perhaps in those rare cases we could request a guest judge who has seen the film to give it a proper ranking.For the scene categories, I would like each judge to watch each scene on Youtube. I would hope that everyone who volunteers to be a judge will know something about the subject. I'm judging Nazi flicks and I feel pretty confident about that, since I think I've seen just about every major Nazi flick that's ever come out (and most minor ones as well). I would not be a good judge for the drug movies, since I've only seen a few of those.

Well-explained. Thank you, tim. I apologize for my novicehood.

 

[KarmaPolice]

My concern about a couple of the movie categories = we will get 15 picks featuring 3 movie franchises.

then let's not allow it. You get one film from a franchise. Once the film is taken, no other picks from that franchise are allowed.

Period? So if I draft Leprechaun as an Irish movie, nobody else can draft that or any other movie in the franchise for another category? Ie somebody else can't have Leprechaun in the Hood as scariest scene?

Sure, why not?

Superhero category gets interesting b/c of this...

 

[JZilla]

I'm not drafting but I can judge a cat if you want, like say Rock & Roll

 

[Aerial Assault]

I hereby offer to judge superheroes (movies) and dream sequences (scenes), if no one else has already done so. If this flies, I will post judging criteria in advance of the draft, because that seems to be a really good idea and will cut down on (some of) the sniping. (Although that might be too bad since some of the sniping is hilarious.)

 

[timschochet]

Here's my criteria for Nazi flicks.

1. The film needs to be about Nazis. Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, or submarine officers are not necessarily Nazis. Nazis means Hitler and his buddies, members of the SS, Gestapo, storm troopers, or Nazi party in general. Modern day Nazis are fine.

2. The more entertaining the film, the better it will do. If you select some artsy flick that is great on style but low on drama, expect to be punished. I don't want to be bored.

3. That's all.

 

[AcerFC]

What is a long take

 

[KarmaPolice]

What is a long take

Continous, unedited, uninterrupted shot.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I will judge long take and probably one other category.

 

[Aerial Assault]

I will judge long take and probably one other category.

Good thing you know what a long take is.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Not to mention if you have to find the scene clip on youtube you're really restricting what the drafters can take, and really it'd give the drafters a pretty big incentive to draft more mainstream Hollywood films since it'd be way easier to find; maybe some would prefer that but personally those aren't the kind of films I'm generally interested in.

... I don't think the drafting of scenes idea would work all that well.

One of the factors that make movie judging difficult, as mentioned upthread by KP, is feeling like one has to watch the full length all of the movies drafted in order to render judgment**. Narrowing it down to scenes was a way to lessen that burden.** I, on the other hand, feel there's nothing wrong with "reputational judging", where a judge may research criticisms of a movie he/she hasn't seen, refer to lists, etc., and pass judgment largely based on the movie's prevailing reputation.

Well if 'reputational judging' is allowed, judging scenes would likely be a greater burden than judging movies since you're less likely to find individual movie scenes being discussed/ranked online than you are full movies. Then there's the added burden of drafters having to find clips on youtube, and then judges finding copies of the film if the scenes aren't already on youtube.Though really, I think perhaps the chief problem with drafting scenes is that, as KP hinted at earlier, although it might work fine with the majority of comedic scenes, many scenes from more dramatic films don't really hold up as stand alone 5 minute clips, it's only in proper context that they're memorable/interesting.

But a lot of the suggestions for the scene categories will stand on their own- is best car chase, best shoot out, etc...

Yeah a bunch of them should be fine with standing on their own, but stuff like dance scene, romantic gesture, shocking scene, courtroom scene, long take, etc., not so much imo.

 

[Frostillicus]

I'll judge sports scene if we can make it just "best sports scene" as a combo of most dramatic and most realistic.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'll judge sports scene if we can make it just "best sports scene" as a combo of most dramatic and most realistic.

As a rule, I am not a fan of sports movies because they are usually dramatized to the point of silliness. I am a fan of 'realistic' scene as a category.

 

[ScottNorwood]

I'll tag up with Roberto Layne. Make it so.

 

[Aerial Assault]

I'll tag up with Roberto Layne. Make it so.

This and your recent observation in one of the Pickles threads that "engage" was still a proper usage when ordering warp speed has convinced me that you're a TNG fan. True?