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When you say "Latinos" what do you mean?
Many people from (or with relatives from) Latin America are highly suspicious of socialism, and socialism in this country is largely associated with the Democratic Party. That's an obstacle for Democrats seeking wider support from people with Latin American ties than they're currently getting.
maybe you need to reaccess your view of your side. Its wheels may come off. If trump can get 20 percent of black vote to switch or just not vote. It would be pretty bad for dems.
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/14/florida-latinos-disinformation-413923?__twitter_impression=true
If 20% of Black voters vote Republican (or don't vote), it won't be a sign that Democratic wheels have fallen off; it will just be a reversion to the mean.
Well that may be part of my misconception.
I always need to reassess my views. That never stops. Perhaps my biggest criticism of our President is that he appears to be a man who never reassesses his views.
The image of Castro is as forgotten by Cubans here in Florida as Hillary Clinton is with the GOP in general. They preach to their kids, actively, from birth until the day they die. I observe this at every single holiday gathering we go to with my wife's family. They are absolutely NOT going to forget or grow out of it. Now it remains to be seen what happens with the Puerto Ricans here in the state. Don't know how that's going to play out.
You’re looking at this from the wrong angle. I know you probably don’t want to hear this, but it’s not about the Republican Party. The reason why polling with Latinos for Biden is so much worse than in the past (besides him being a terrible candidate) is because the Democratic Party has been coddling socialists and marxists and promoting constant protests.
Well I think it kind of should matter, don’t you? Joe Biden is a longtime politician, liberal certainly but he’s never been close to being a Marxist.
this is true, but no one who's being honest with themselves should be surprised that the continual proliferation of woke radical thinking throughout the modern Democratic party would create this kind of backlash from people whove lived under and seen the oppression of actual socialist and communist regimes. I won't vote Trump, but I'm not voting Biden or any other Democrat either until they show they have the spine to stand up to and repudiate that stuff. I think the quasi-religion of woke dogma, identity politics, and this neo-Marxist radicalism that's wormed its way into prominence is cancer to traditional liberal values like tolerance, the value of an unrestricted marketplace of ideas and and freedom of expression, and the Democrats have been coddling and capitulating to the people espousing those principles for so long in an attempt to buy their votes, its now become part of the accepted bedrock of the party.
That is not the drift of the catholic church. Huge lurch to the left in recent years. I stopped going even before covid. I was considering the eastern orthodox church.
This is an excellent point. The Latino group Cuban-Americans, mostly first generation in the states, who have seen first hand the lies and hypocrisy of socialism first hand, are polling heavily favorable for Trump, even though they don't particularly like him. The Latino group Mexican-Americans in California, many of whom are second or third generation, continue to poll for Biden. Of course, many of them have only lived in the U.S. so they have years of U.S. Media consumption rattling around in their heads.
This. This. And This 100%. This is a FANTASTIC POST!
Yeah I don’t think so.
I disagree with this. Most Americans are anti-science in numerous ways. "Scientists are dumb, what about global cooling?" is a winning message, politically.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
You guys are both missing the obvious debate responses:
Not sure what you mean here Possum. Those who lived (and still have family living under) actual socialist/communist regimes are flooding into this country because they know what we have here isn't close to those ideals regardless of what the GOP says. My wife has some very conservative Cuban family members and even they scoff at this notion that socialism is taking over this country. They laugh at what people here label socialism. That's not to say they don't have significant problems with the Democratic party. They do, but it seems to have more to do with their attitudes towards specific countries like Cuba. For instance, they were absolutely livid that the Obama administration opened up travel the little bit it did. There's a weird paradox among them when it comes to immigration too. That's probably for another thread though.
Honestly I had forgotten that this took place during the Obama years. Now I wonder if this action isn’t a key reason that Biden is having trouble with this community.
Frankly I would love that because he would have to moderate his behavior at the least but more than likely make some substantive policy changes that benefited black folks.
Many latinos are not falling for the oppressed victim rhetoric or the police are out hunting down minorities bs.
It's an often cited reason in my anecdotal experience. That's all I can say about it...it's FAR more accurate to attribute their negativity to this than "fear of socialism"...they pretty much scoff at the suggestion.timschochet said:
Trump is Lonzo Ball circa 2018, and Team B is gonna let him throw up bricks all day.timschochet said:
Very true.Maurile Tremblay said:
Based on anecdotal experience, it's the second one
warning, man: this is going to be long and potentially incoherentThe Commish said:
thanks, I hope it was somewhat understandable. It's just that from my perspective, the undesirable quasi-religious elements of the Democratic party that I mentioned have now become at least as powerful, strident, authoritarian and repressive as the religious "moral majority" was in the Reagan, Bush and W years, and their way of thinking is cancerous to traditional liberal principles. I can't support the Republicans, but I also can't support the Democrats until someone steps up and starts pushing back against this stuff.
Sure....i get it and even agree with a good bit of it. It's my belief that this is what happens when we compare candidates to each other rather than measure them to a standard. It was only a matter of time the dems followed suit after seeing the success the GOP had and continues to have with the approach
I think this is definitely a good point. But keep in mind a lot of this cancel culture stuff and radical thinking first gained prominence early in President Obama's second term, so I also think that in large part Trump's presidency is a symptom of the amount of dislike and pushback among the electorate to these elements that are perceived (rightly, for the most part) to be influencing the thought processes of the current Democratic party.
We can draw personal lines of "cancel culture" (though I STILL don't really understand what it means really) all day. Is it "cancel culture" to suggest the "goal" of one group is to not let a single piece of legislation get passed by the sitting President? Does it go back to lobbyists saying "if you don't sign on to initiative X, I'll make sure you are a one term rep"? I'm beginning to loathe the term as it too simply seems to mean "something I don't agree with". It's hard for me to understand what these things are without specific examples. What events/policies are you referring to from that timeframe? It'll help me understand what this term means (maybe).
that's my bad, I tend to think that the term cancel culture (also known as call-out culture) is pretty widespread and well-known at this point, due to all the discussion that's been had about it in a lot of media outlets and online on forums and social media over the past couple of years. But if you're not aware, cancel culture as I'm using it refers to the phenomenon of using social media mobs to publically shame, condemn and punish both public figures and private citizens for actions, statements or viewpoints that disagree with or are incompatible with current woke/left-wing politics and/or can be interpreted as racist, misogynist, transphobic or otherwise discriminatory in some way.
That's the end result of Socialism. We've had the entire 20th century to show us how that turns out (famine, poverty and high body counts). That's the whole point.
This should end the thread right here.warning, man: this is going to be long and potentially incoherent
I'm not trying to say that our government here is close to socialism yet, and I personally support stuff like free healthcare that's not very capitalistic of me. A moderate progressive style of Democratic policies or even a lot of quasi-socialist governance like you'd see in Canada or the UK isn't the issue for me - I'm talking about the radicalized thinking that's begun reaching new heights over the last ten years or so (fourth wave feminism, identity politics, woke dogma, equity instead of equality) and the rabid inability of adherents of these schools of thought to respect and tolerate differing opinions, their insistence that the rest of us are somehow flawed (and racist, white supremacist, or otherwise evil in many cases) human beings for holding viewpoints or voting for policies that run counter to theirs, and the growing efforts to censor, censure and shame voices that don't share or disagree their conclusions for how society should operate.
intertwined with the majority of this stuff is generally a moderate to high degree of anti-American sentiment and some level of Marxist theory. The communist stuff has always been a part of the radical left here and probably isn't significantly more influential now than it used to be in the 20s or 60s. But I think because those folks have now allied themselves with the woke thinking movement and protests for social justice, they're more visible now than ever. That - along with recognition and rejection of the authoritarian hypocrisy of the woke school of thought - is starting to create a vociferous response from people who've been through authoritarian communist/socialist regimes in other countries. Plus the whole "equity not equality" mindset that's growing pretty fast on the left is basically just renamed enforced redistribution of wealth.
but I'm not trying to say that any of the stuff above about political groups trying to shame, silence and harass the people with opposing viewpoints is new in this country - that's always been around. What's different now, though, is that for almost all of my life its been the right - mainly the religious right - trying to do the censoring and silencing of the people, speech and thought they didn't like. I always have believed that was wrong, and classic liberal values like tolerance for our differences, individuality, belief in equality and freedom of expression were things that drew me to lean towards and associate myself with the Democratic party. Plus I grew up in a super religious, super restrictive deep South Baptist family and saw firsthand a lot of things about religion that made me mistrust it and the way the Republicans tried to shoehorn religious beliefs into politics.
now, (and I apologize but I'm gonna rant a bit) we're seeing that the Democrats have fully embraced a role as the cool, hip party of youth and political correctness, the news media has fallen apart under the economic realities of the digital age, slid further into bias on all sides and turned into a gaggle of carnival barkers shilling outrage to whoever they can make a buck off, and social media has become the drug of choice for millions of Americans and is currently treated as some sort of oracle of national opinion despite being almost completely based on emotion over logic, filled with unreliable narrators, bereft of context and representative of a small and continuously more polarized number of citizens.
so the majority of leaders on the left have become weak, hesitant and ineffectual, desperate to be perceived as cool and relevant to the under 30 set, twisting in the wind with whatever Twitter or CNN are saying on a given day, and unwilling to take a stand on any principles with a chance of offending somebody (and everyone, everywhere, is offended all the time anyway these days). And because they're so concerned with creating offense, being criticized and perceived as not cool, they've allowed these very illiberal schools of thought from the far left - with attendant principles like censorship of free expression and state sponsored preference based on biological traits - to proliferate at all levels of the party zeitgeist with no opposition or debate at all.
and having grown up in a church, I see the clear religious parallels of woke thinkers in their refusal to self-examine and criticize their own ideology for logical flaws - they prefer to shout down and censor any criticism at all and to silence different viewpoints by labelling speech as violence - and in their constant redefinition of accepted terms to fit whatever interpretation is needed at a given time.
I think this stuff is hypocritical, authoritarian and dangerous, and I think that it was a colossal mistake to allow it to percolate up as far as it has in the left's national identity, because the majority of Americans have been shown to have a strong aversion and dislike for it, and in my opinion they're not wrong at all for that. Just like we constantly - and correctly - call for the Republicans and Trump to address and condemn the white supremacists on the far right, I personally can't support the Democrats until they start standing up to and cutting out this anathema to liberal principles. But unfortunately I have very, very little confidence that anyone currently in a leadership position in the party has the stones and the principles to actually do that.
