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timschochet's thread- Mods, please move this thread to the Politics Subforum, thank you (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Who do you guys think had the most ragged unkempt ######s in American History?
My top 3
1. Sacagawea
2. Harriet Tubman
3. Susan B. Anthony
My top 3
1. Sacagawea
2. Harriet Tubman
3. Susan B. Anthony
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
timschochet
Footballguy
78. Harriet Beecher Stowe
I did not write it. God wrote it. I merely took His dictation.
The above quote refers of course to Uncle Tom's Cabin, though it could have been written by Mohammad or Joseph Smith. It does seem like an odd quote for a novelist, but Stowe WAS deeply religious and her faith shaped her work. Though there were a few noteworthy atheists and deists who were famous abolitionists, the bulk of the movement was a Christian one, and this is important because it helps to explain why, IMO, Christianity has been a morally superior religion to Islam at least in the last 300 years, since the time of the Enlightenment. Christianity and Judaism, the two religions of the west, absorbed the ideas and ideals of the Enlightenment; Islam being in the east did not. Consequently, at least some American Christians in the 19th century found that they could not live with slavery and thus fought to get rid of it. Without the religious beliefs of the Quakers, the Congregationalists, the northern Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists, the abolitionist movement would not have been possible. (Few Catholics were involved in this movement, for complicated political and social reasons. Catholics tended to be immigrants, from Ireland and Germany, and were concerned that free blacks would threaten their jobs. They also faced discrimination from many of the same groups who formed the heart of abolitionism.)
Whether Stowe actually wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin or dictated it from God, the fact that it was a novel makes it a product of the 19th century and not before. The 19th century represented the mass publication of novels to a readership far beyond the upper classes, and this allowed political writers to change public opinion. This was not a phenomenon specific to the United States; in France, Victor Hugo's Les Miserables changed attitudes about poverty. In England, Dickens' Oliver Twist was an attack on the misery of poorhouses; Dickens would write many more books in a similar vein, criticizing Victorian England while telling a good story at the same time.
But no novel, probably before or since, has ever had as profound an effect on politics as Uncle Tom's Cabin. Stowe put a human face to slavery with her characters, much in the same way as, a century later, The Diary of Anne Frank put a human face on the Holocaust. It is human nature to pay attention to the individual; if you tell us that thousands of slaves are suffering, or that millions of Jews are being put to death, we might be intellectually repelled but we don't react emotionally. If you tell us one story about a few people who we come to know and can sympathize with, then we react emotionally. This will ever be true.
It's important to point out that the "Uncle Tom" of the novel was a strong-willed, heroic man, and bears no resemblance to the caricature of "Uncle Tom" we think of today- meaning a weak-kneed black man eager to accept a subservient role in society. That latter "Uncle Tom" was created decades after Stowe's novel, when "blackface" minstrel shows told the novel's story on stage, often in a mocking way. Stowe's novel was pure melodrama, a classic American story of good vs. evil without much nuance, but it's images were powerful and not intended to be used for mockery.
Uncle Tom's Cabin brought thousands into the abolitionist movement, and convinced thousands more that slavery was a great evil which had to go. It also angered the South greatly and increased it's resentment against northern do-gooders who, they believed, had no real concept of southern society.
Up next...The "Queen of All Media"...
I did not write it. God wrote it. I merely took His dictation.
The above quote refers of course to Uncle Tom's Cabin, though it could have been written by Mohammad or Joseph Smith. It does seem like an odd quote for a novelist, but Stowe WAS deeply religious and her faith shaped her work. Though there were a few noteworthy atheists and deists who were famous abolitionists, the bulk of the movement was a Christian one, and this is important because it helps to explain why, IMO, Christianity has been a morally superior religion to Islam at least in the last 300 years, since the time of the Enlightenment. Christianity and Judaism, the two religions of the west, absorbed the ideas and ideals of the Enlightenment; Islam being in the east did not. Consequently, at least some American Christians in the 19th century found that they could not live with slavery and thus fought to get rid of it. Without the religious beliefs of the Quakers, the Congregationalists, the northern Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists, the abolitionist movement would not have been possible. (Few Catholics were involved in this movement, for complicated political and social reasons. Catholics tended to be immigrants, from Ireland and Germany, and were concerned that free blacks would threaten their jobs. They also faced discrimination from many of the same groups who formed the heart of abolitionism.)
Whether Stowe actually wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin or dictated it from God, the fact that it was a novel makes it a product of the 19th century and not before. The 19th century represented the mass publication of novels to a readership far beyond the upper classes, and this allowed political writers to change public opinion. This was not a phenomenon specific to the United States; in France, Victor Hugo's Les Miserables changed attitudes about poverty. In England, Dickens' Oliver Twist was an attack on the misery of poorhouses; Dickens would write many more books in a similar vein, criticizing Victorian England while telling a good story at the same time.
But no novel, probably before or since, has ever had as profound an effect on politics as Uncle Tom's Cabin. Stowe put a human face to slavery with her characters, much in the same way as, a century later, The Diary of Anne Frank put a human face on the Holocaust. It is human nature to pay attention to the individual; if you tell us that thousands of slaves are suffering, or that millions of Jews are being put to death, we might be intellectually repelled but we don't react emotionally. If you tell us one story about a few people who we come to know and can sympathize with, then we react emotionally. This will ever be true.
It's important to point out that the "Uncle Tom" of the novel was a strong-willed, heroic man, and bears no resemblance to the caricature of "Uncle Tom" we think of today- meaning a weak-kneed black man eager to accept a subservient role in society. That latter "Uncle Tom" was created decades after Stowe's novel, when "blackface" minstrel shows told the novel's story on stage, often in a mocking way. Stowe's novel was pure melodrama, a classic American story of good vs. evil without much nuance, but it's images were powerful and not intended to be used for mockery.
Uncle Tom's Cabin brought thousands into the abolitionist movement, and convinced thousands more that slavery was a great evil which had to go. It also angered the South greatly and increased it's resentment against northern do-gooders who, they believed, had no real concept of southern society.
Up next...The "Queen of All Media"...
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
dparker713
Footballguy
It's like Tim is trying to destroy his own thread at this point.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
John Kennedy is our most overrated President. I don't know if there is a close second.timschochet said:
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
We've hit the 1920's. And with it the end of the 3rd 50 year period of America. The leaders of the revolution became our first Presidents. The next 50 years saw Civil War. This third 50 years ushered in the 20th century, World War and had America on the verge of becoming the world power that we know it today. As we begin the track the next 50 year span through to Jimmy Carter, the world is going to change drastically more. Humanity will change, having finally become capable of destroying itself, with America leading the charge.
The raw scoring currently sits at:
Lincoln 67
Washington 64
T. Roosevelt 60
Monroe 59
Polk 55
McKinley 52
Wilson 52
Jefferson 50
Adams 49
JAckson 44
Grant 44
Madison 39
Cleveland 37
Taft 35
B. Harrison 32
Van Buren 29
Tyler 29
Hayes 28
Q. Adams 27
Arthur 20
Taylor 19
Garfield 19
Fillmore 18
WH Harrison 12
Buchanan 11
Pierce 10
A. Johnson 8
Obvious tiers are beginning to make themselves known, and the mean is sitting probably where it should. I already see about 5 guys that have to move in various ways in my opinion, but the next 50 years are going to have guys all over the map. At the end of this next 50 years, ending with Jimmy Carter, we are going to approach the Presidents that I am going to have a supremely difficult time ranking. History of their exploits is still far too recent to judge properly. Their scores are going to be given and their rankings known, but all of them will have an asterick for a score and ultimate ranking that is fluid at best for at least another 20 years.
But for now, we set our sights on the roaring 20's, another death in office, a great man who failed, another ultimate legend who saved the world, the guys that followed him into Korea, Vietnam and ultimately a fractured middle east that we are suffering for now. We also see a tremendous change in American culture itself and with it the Office of the President once again.
The raw scoring currently sits at:
Lincoln 67
Washington 64
T. Roosevelt 60
Monroe 59
Polk 55
McKinley 52
Wilson 52
Jefferson 50
Adams 49
JAckson 44
Grant 44
Madison 39
Cleveland 37
Taft 35
B. Harrison 32
Van Buren 29
Tyler 29
Hayes 28
Q. Adams 27
Arthur 20
Taylor 19
Garfield 19
Fillmore 18
WH Harrison 12
Buchanan 11
Pierce 10
A. Johnson 8
Obvious tiers are beginning to make themselves known, and the mean is sitting probably where it should. I already see about 5 guys that have to move in various ways in my opinion, but the next 50 years are going to have guys all over the map. At the end of this next 50 years, ending with Jimmy Carter, we are going to approach the Presidents that I am going to have a supremely difficult time ranking. History of their exploits is still far too recent to judge properly. Their scores are going to be given and their rankings known, but all of them will have an asterick for a score and ultimate ranking that is fluid at best for at least another 20 years.
But for now, we set our sights on the roaring 20's, another death in office, a great man who failed, another ultimate legend who saved the world, the guys that followed him into Korea, Vietnam and ultimately a fractured middle east that we are suffering for now. We also see a tremendous change in American culture itself and with it the Office of the President once again.
Sweet J
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Hes talking about one of our greatest humanitarians, a man who literally saved Europe from mass starvation, and should be regarded as one of our greatest heroes (barely missing my top 100 in fact)- but due to a combination of terrible luck and incompetence was a lousy President.
Sweet J
Footballguy
yeah, my first thought was Carter. But then I thought maybe he was listing folks in chronological order, and he was listed before korea and veitnam.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Bill Jean King more important to American History than Herbert Hoover.
I'm speechless.
timschochet
Footballguy
77. Oprah Winfrey
The biggest adventure you can take is to live the life of your dreams.
How'd she do it? This amazing woman, born into rural poverty, raped at age 9, pregnant by 14, landed a job on radio in high school. Then she was anchoring the news by the age of 19. Then she started her own local talk show in Chicago. Then it rose to first place. Then it was syndicated. Then internationally syndicated. And from there she created an empire.
Oprah Winfrey is now a billionaire, thought to be the richest woman and richest black person in America. But even beyond that, she is a woman of extraordinary influence and power. For years authors begged her to read their books, because if she chose to mention them on air the boost in sales was tremendous. This got to be so popular that finally Oprah established a book club, filled with the stuff she liked best, guaranteeing each book was an instant best-seller. Celebrities fought to appear on her show, knowing that whatever movie or TV show they were in would be an instant hit. Inventors, chefs, doctors, anyone with something to promote or sell fought for an appearance. Yet Oprah somehow kept it interesting for her audience, which demographics suggest was largely female.
Her influence was not limited to culture. In late 2006, Oprah decided that she preferred Barack Obama to be the President over Hillary Clinton. Oprah's subsequent endorsement of Obama was perhaps the most important political endorsement in modern American history, having a huge impact on Democratic voters and especially on African-American voters. The Clintons were angry and bitter about what they regarded as a "betrayal" and I have no idea if the rift has been healed at this point. So far, Oprah has been silent during this latest election cycle. It will be fascinating to see if she stays that way.
Yet although Oprah has always been a professed liberal (trivial point- she was, for a short time, a member of Jeremiah Wright's church), her appeal to American conservatives has always been at least as strong as it has been to liberals and independents. Anecdotally, I know plenty of very conservative women who love Oprah and who watched her religiously. She has a strong connection to women in particular.
Her show's been over for 4 years now, so she's less in the news, despite still having a magazine and several other enterprises. She's only 61, so there's still plenty more to do.
Next up: This man, whom most Americans have probably never heard of, did more to advance the sexual revolution in this country than anybody else...
The biggest adventure you can take is to live the life of your dreams.
How'd she do it? This amazing woman, born into rural poverty, raped at age 9, pregnant by 14, landed a job on radio in high school. Then she was anchoring the news by the age of 19. Then she started her own local talk show in Chicago. Then it rose to first place. Then it was syndicated. Then internationally syndicated. And from there she created an empire.
Oprah Winfrey is now a billionaire, thought to be the richest woman and richest black person in America. But even beyond that, she is a woman of extraordinary influence and power. For years authors begged her to read their books, because if she chose to mention them on air the boost in sales was tremendous. This got to be so popular that finally Oprah established a book club, filled with the stuff she liked best, guaranteeing each book was an instant best-seller. Celebrities fought to appear on her show, knowing that whatever movie or TV show they were in would be an instant hit. Inventors, chefs, doctors, anyone with something to promote or sell fought for an appearance. Yet Oprah somehow kept it interesting for her audience, which demographics suggest was largely female.
Her influence was not limited to culture. In late 2006, Oprah decided that she preferred Barack Obama to be the President over Hillary Clinton. Oprah's subsequent endorsement of Obama was perhaps the most important political endorsement in modern American history, having a huge impact on Democratic voters and especially on African-American voters. The Clintons were angry and bitter about what they regarded as a "betrayal" and I have no idea if the rift has been healed at this point. So far, Oprah has been silent during this latest election cycle. It will be fascinating to see if she stays that way.
Yet although Oprah has always been a professed liberal (trivial point- she was, for a short time, a member of Jeremiah Wright's church), her appeal to American conservatives has always been at least as strong as it has been to liberals and independents. Anecdotally, I know plenty of very conservative women who love Oprah and who watched her religiously. She has a strong connection to women in particular.
Her show's been over for 4 years now, so she's less in the news, despite still having a magazine and several other enterprises. She's only 61, so there's still plenty more to do.
Next up: This man, whom most Americans have probably never heard of, did more to advance the sexual revolution in this country than anybody else...
timschochet
Footballguy
You've been speechless about my picks for several weeks now. Yet you keep typing about them!
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I'm finding it hard to understand how you can be making this worse as you go along but you are. It's truly remarkable.You've been speechless about my picks for several weeks now. Yet you keep typing about them!
timschochet
Footballguy
Takes a skill, doesn't it?I'm finding it hard to understand how you can be making this worse as you go along but you are. It's truly remarkable.You've been speechless about my picks for several weeks now. Yet you keep typing about them!
Shankopotamus
Footballguy
Bogeys
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Random thoughts for the day:
(Note- I plan to do this as often as I can rather than start a new thread each time. I am hoping, though, that people reading this will choose to discuss some of these issues- that's why I'm posting them.)
1. Jeb Bush has raised 100 million and plans to start spending NOW- $10 million spread throughout the first 3 states (Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina), all in commercials, hoping to reintroduce himself as a conservative governor who can get things done, rather than "just another Bush." He's the first candidate in either party to actually start spending money on commercials, and it's a little early compared to 2011 (Romney started in November.) What affect will this have, if any? I kind of think that, so early on, he's just wasting money. It's not like he needs the name recognition. But he is currently way down in the polls so maybe this makes sense....
2. My teenage daughters are obsessed with these Youtube celebs- Joey Graffaceta (I didn't spell that right but who cares?) and the other dude. I really don't get it. From the few minutes I've seen, they appear to offer no talent other than screaming and trying to act as flamboyantly gay as possible. What is the attraction? My daughters can't explain it but they seem to be totally hooked; they watch it more than TV.
3. My comment about Mike Trout last night, which Dr. Detroit called me on, was a little biased. (I wrote that he was the best baseball player in the last 50 years, since Mickey Mantle got hurt.) I am an Angels fan, all right? DD immediately brought up Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr. I have spoken to a huge Griffey fan who asserts that Griffey was faster in the field but that Trout is already a better overall player. As for Bonds- well I hate Barry Bonds, and I hate the Giants. So I don't want to give him any respect. He's a cheater anyhow. #### Barry Bonds.
4. I'm reading The Rosie Project- about a guy with aspergers looking for the perfect wife. Very funny, very well written. Next up: Being Nixon, by Evan Thomas. Yet another look at one of our more underrated Presidents...
5. More and more I'm convinced that Jon Snow is not dead.
6. Weight Watchers scores 4 pieces of sashimi, not salmon, as 1 point. 4 pieces of salmon sashimi = 2 points. Is salmon so much fattier than other fish?
7. Since my brother died, I have had to go through all sorts of hoops with his bank accounts and credit cards and last bills, showing them death certificates and sending them notarized affidavits, etc. But NOBODY has given me the amount of heartache as Apple. My brother left behind an IPhone 5, and I wanted to give it to my oldest daughter. Apple demanded I send them 4 documents which they have taken a month to review. Now, the reviewer, who I can't talk to directly, is rejecting the death certificate because he says it's not official. It is official, this guy's just not familiar with California forms. So now they're reviewing it again, and asking for more documents. All to clear an account on a $400 iPhone. It's aggravating.
8. My brother's favorite band growing up was Kansas, so I started listening to them again out of nostalgia. Beyond the familiar hits, they're really quite good. In a progressive mode like Yes or Rush, but a little more melodic than those bands IMO. I think they're underrated as a 70s band.
9. The more I hear Donald Trump joke around, the more I think of Greg Stillson.
10. Ted Cruz's people say he is looking forward to the government shutdown in October over Planned Parenthood because it will establish Ted as the leader of the Tea Party crowd who stands up to the GOP establishment. Swell.
(Note- I plan to do this as often as I can rather than start a new thread each time. I am hoping, though, that people reading this will choose to discuss some of these issues- that's why I'm posting them.)
1. Jeb Bush has raised 100 million and plans to start spending NOW- $10 million spread throughout the first 3 states (Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina), all in commercials, hoping to reintroduce himself as a conservative governor who can get things done, rather than "just another Bush." He's the first candidate in either party to actually start spending money on commercials, and it's a little early compared to 2011 (Romney started in November.) What affect will this have, if any? I kind of think that, so early on, he's just wasting money. It's not like he needs the name recognition. But he is currently way down in the polls so maybe this makes sense....
2. My teenage daughters are obsessed with these Youtube celebs- Joey Graffaceta (I didn't spell that right but who cares?) and the other dude. I really don't get it. From the few minutes I've seen, they appear to offer no talent other than screaming and trying to act as flamboyantly gay as possible. What is the attraction? My daughters can't explain it but they seem to be totally hooked; they watch it more than TV.
3. My comment about Mike Trout last night, which Dr. Detroit called me on, was a little biased. (I wrote that he was the best baseball player in the last 50 years, since Mickey Mantle got hurt.) I am an Angels fan, all right? DD immediately brought up Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr. I have spoken to a huge Griffey fan who asserts that Griffey was faster in the field but that Trout is already a better overall player. As for Bonds- well I hate Barry Bonds, and I hate the Giants. So I don't want to give him any respect. He's a cheater anyhow. #### Barry Bonds.
4. I'm reading The Rosie Project- about a guy with aspergers looking for the perfect wife. Very funny, very well written. Next up: Being Nixon, by Evan Thomas. Yet another look at one of our more underrated Presidents...
5. More and more I'm convinced that Jon Snow is not dead.
6. Weight Watchers scores 4 pieces of sashimi, not salmon, as 1 point. 4 pieces of salmon sashimi = 2 points. Is salmon so much fattier than other fish?
7. Since my brother died, I have had to go through all sorts of hoops with his bank accounts and credit cards and last bills, showing them death certificates and sending them notarized affidavits, etc. But NOBODY has given me the amount of heartache as Apple. My brother left behind an IPhone 5, and I wanted to give it to my oldest daughter. Apple demanded I send them 4 documents which they have taken a month to review. Now, the reviewer, who I can't talk to directly, is rejecting the death certificate because he says it's not official. It is official, this guy's just not familiar with California forms. So now they're reviewing it again, and asking for more documents. All to clear an account on a $400 iPhone. It's aggravating.
8. My brother's favorite band growing up was Kansas, so I started listening to them again out of nostalgia. Beyond the familiar hits, they're really quite good. In a progressive mode like Yes or Rush, but a little more melodic than those bands IMO. I think they're underrated as a 70s band.
9. The more I hear Donald Trump joke around, the more I think of Greg Stillson.
10. Ted Cruz's people say he is looking forward to the government shutdown in October over Planned Parenthood because it will establish Ted as the leader of the Tea Party crowd who stands up to the GOP establishment. Swell.
Apple sucks, no question. I have a bunch of Apple Store gift cards, with no receipt, since, you know, they were gifts. The card activation doesn't work on any of them, and Apple won't activate them without a receipt. Apple's claim is that they can't activate them because they don't know how much they should be, even though the amount is printed right on the cards!
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Condolences on the loss of your brother.
Your daughters are just doing their part to prevent gay teen suicide.
I can go the rest of my life without hearing from another Bush or Clinton so how Jeb spends his money does not really cause me pause.
I don't think much of Ted Cruz. I do think Planned Parenthood should be defunded. I do, however, think that it would be a shame if they could not survive in the free market.
Kansas had some talent, as did Boston and Peter Frampton. Just because they became popular to the point of becoming cliché` does not negate their talent.
Thus far I have avoided listening to or following the Donald.
Your daughters are just doing their part to prevent gay teen suicide.
I can go the rest of my life without hearing from another Bush or Clinton so how Jeb spends his money does not really cause me pause.
I don't think much of Ted Cruz. I do think Planned Parenthood should be defunded. I do, however, think that it would be a shame if they could not survive in the free market.
Kansas had some talent, as did Boston and Peter Frampton. Just because they became popular to the point of becoming cliché` does not negate their talent.
Thus far I have avoided listening to or following the Donald.
timschochet
Footballguy
Interesting that you'd mention Peter Frampton, because he's not somebody I think about in connection with Kansas. I liked his live hits, don't know too much else about him (except wasn't he the guitarist for Humble Pie? I like Humble Pie.)
Boston's first album is among my all time favorites. I can listen to it again and again, never gets old. Their second album is pretty lame other than the title song. Their third album is worse than lame. So I sort of see them as a one album monster.
The band which reminds me most of Kansas is Styx, but only prior to Pieces of Eight. After that they got pretty schmaltzy.
Boston's first album is among my all time favorites. I can listen to it again and again, never gets old. Their second album is pretty lame other than the title song. Their third album is worse than lame. So I sort of see them as a one album monster.
The band which reminds me most of Kansas is Styx, but only prior to Pieces of Eight. After that they got pretty schmaltzy.
dparker713
Footballguy
I think I've figured it out. Its not greatest, its not most important or influential. Its the most popular. So, Elvis will be #1 overall. Maybe Mickey Mouse. Eh, probably Mickey Mouse.I'm finding it hard to understand how you can be making this worse as you go along but you are. It's truly remarkable.You've been speechless about my picks for several weeks now. Yet you keep typing about them!
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
dparker713
Footballguy
Bonds is the best baseball player since Ruth. And Trout is better than Griffey was.
whoknew
Footballguy
Plus Mays played until 1973. So Tim's post implies that Mantle was better than Mays. Do we agree? I'm not sure about that.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
Public Acumen/Persuasion
True story, he wasn’t the front runner for the Republican nomination in 1921, but he had the biggest power broker behind him and it was ultimately determined that he was the best looking guy in the field, something republicans thought was important given that women were going to be voting in this election. Harding was a decent politician but always consulted with his closest friends that he felt the job was bigger than him and that he truly despised it once he got into office. He promised that his cabinet would be full of the best minds of the nation and not just political cronies. His three most important cabinet members, Charles Evans Hughes in State, Andrew Mellon in Treasury and Herbert Hoover in Commerce were those men. The rest of his cabinet though? They descended into corruption.
Harding’s first official act as President after being sworn in was to announce that he was taking a vacation which he did until basically the end of the year to play golf. And poker. He was a huge poker player. And ultimately he just wanted to be liked by everyone, which made him a very weak president in almost every respect. But in general he was well liked and when he died unexpectedly he was mourned throughout the nation. Until word of all scandals during his time in office broke. Within a few years, his administration was considered nothing but bribery and scam and his ultimate place in history has taken a hit for it.
And we literally just found out this week that he did, indeed, have a love child while in the White House. For documentary evidence of this event, I would recommend the learned teachings of the John Oliver and his HBO series that was on last night. He does a completely marvelous job of reviewing the issue in depth.
War & Crisis
How do you move on after a World War. Harding faced that question upon entering office. He didn’t support the League of Nations nor most of Wilson’s policies and he left almost all foreign affairs issues to his SecState. Recognizing and trading with the new Russian government was an issue that was becoming more of a problem under Harding but he died before he truly did anything about it.
Harding also entered office in the midst of a post war depression and was hard pressed to lead any policy on it. If not for his cabinet it could have been worse by the time he died, but they effectively passed some tax cuts and would eventually help the economy for Coolidge. Overall, the crisis’ that his administration would face were their own and happened after he died when the corruption scandals exploded.
Economy
The economy was just starting to recover when he died and with his policies in place thanks to the leadership of Mellon, the economy exploded in the rest of the 20’s until, well, you know. Most of the changes in the economy though weren’t due to his leadership but to Mellon’s relationships with business leaders. Harding believed that government should help business and was about as diametrically opposed to the trust busting policies of previous administrations as you could be. With Mellon fighting for more and more pro business tax and tariff policies, Harding went along and helped to get the economy rolling again.
Foreign Policy
With help from Hughes and Hoover, Harding’s plan on foreign policy was to use American money to be the strength of the nation and not its military might. He allowed them to get the first solid oil treaty with middle east countries to feed the growing development of America. Harding believed in helping Europe recover from the war and sought congressional backing to refinance and renegotiate war debts. He was ultimately successful with England, but congress balked at the first plan with Germany. Eventually though, Harding pushed for and got the Dawes Plan passed to lower Germany’s payments which helped the German economy for a time. Most of the rest of Europe got similar deals to help the economies there as well.
With Harding’s support, SecState Hughes also began the first real disarmarment talks with world powers to scale down military power in those nations. Eventually an agreement was passed to decrease the growth of naval power which resulted ultimately in Japan coming out of the treaty with the ability to have the most powerful navy in the pacific. The treaty also ratified America’s belief that China should be treated as an open door, which had been American policy for some time. Harding also eased up on Latin America issues, especially in Mexico where Harding ultimately gave Mexico what it was looking for and it gained American recognition of its government again. Overall, Harding was more peacemaker than imperialist.
Executive Skills/Congress
Harding believed that Congress should so all the hard work in the nation. And his pledge to have the best minds in his cabinet was fulfilled as above, but the rest of the seats in his government were awful and have damaged his standing in history. Congress passed most of the republican agenda leading into the 1923 midterms but democrats took a ton of seats back showing that people were ok with Harding’s administration but not so much as to give him a rubber stamp. Seeing the loss of power in Washington, Harding finally sought to be more of a leader and began a nationwide tour to talk to the people about republican policies and set the stage for his re-election. The trip is probably what ended up killing him.
And after his death, the corruption of his staff and cabinet became clear. His Ohio Gang of close friends ruined his reputation. The Veteran’s Bureau scandal was a mess. It was later learned that Harding knew a little of the problems there and went to Herbert Hoover for advice over it but wouldn’t give Hoover any details. Of course, he also was sitting in the Oval during the TeaPot Dome scandal as well though it appears that he really didn’t know anything about it. But it did ultimate result in one of his cabinet members being the first to be arrested and imprisoned for a scandal.
And the justice department was a mess a biblical proportions. Overall, Harding’s trust of the wrong people is not unlike Grant’s. But history has been able to piece together than while Harding didn’t know everything that was going on, he probably knew enough and let it go to and as a result has to get a hit for his cabinet and how they worked with Congress. Democrats of course latched on to anything they could find to hit Harding, even after his death and hoped that some of it would hit Vice President Coolidge as well.
Justice/Rights
Harding was actually an ok civil rights President. He spoke to a mixed crowd in Alabama pleading for equal treatment of all people. He actually said that literacy tests for voting were ok if they were applied equally to the races. Though in the end little was done in his short time in office on black rights. On immigration he supported a bill that restricted immigration into the country. When you look deeper at his bills and the rest of the anti-immigration stuff that was happening in the 1920’s was that the parties supported the immigration of people that would most likely vote for their party and tried to limit the other sides immigrants. Harding fell in line there.
Context
The job was too big for Harding. The successes of his administration weren’t because of his leadership but because of Mellon, Hughes and Hoover. If the President’s job was more public relations and less actual work, Harding would have been one of the better guys most likely. He’d rather play cards and golf than deal with policy and the public. And while he managed to keep a solid standing during his life, almost immediately after he did the public saw the problems that his administration caused. With the country coming out of the World War and getting poised to be an international power, Harding took the opportunity to use more peace, diplomacy and commerce instead of military power and he gets decent grades for that. You have to wonder if the reduction on naval power was a signal to Japan that was answered in 1941 or not.
Conclusion
Solid but unspectacular is about the best you can probably give Harding, until you give him credit for what his administration did that wasn’t realized until after his death. Harding was the President that openly began using immigration policy for presidential electoral reasons. His pro-business policies and belief that government should help business began the roaring 20’s which collapsed onto themselves. But his Europe policy was humanitarian in many respects. On persuasion he gets a 3, on crisis he gets a 3, on economy 6, on foreign policy 7, on Congress 2, civil rights 5, and context 2. 28 total points. Probably a bit more generous than most historians would give him. Maybe not. Middle of the pack at best. It’s hard to imagine, given what we know about him, that he didn’t know about all the scandals in his administration. It’s more fair to believe that he knew, but didn’t know the depth of them or what they would mean, and that he didn’t think that they were really that bad for the most part. That hurts his legacy and deservedly so.
Public Acumen/Persuasion
True story, he wasn’t the front runner for the Republican nomination in 1921, but he had the biggest power broker behind him and it was ultimately determined that he was the best looking guy in the field, something republicans thought was important given that women were going to be voting in this election. Harding was a decent politician but always consulted with his closest friends that he felt the job was bigger than him and that he truly despised it once he got into office. He promised that his cabinet would be full of the best minds of the nation and not just political cronies. His three most important cabinet members, Charles Evans Hughes in State, Andrew Mellon in Treasury and Herbert Hoover in Commerce were those men. The rest of his cabinet though? They descended into corruption.
Harding’s first official act as President after being sworn in was to announce that he was taking a vacation which he did until basically the end of the year to play golf. And poker. He was a huge poker player. And ultimately he just wanted to be liked by everyone, which made him a very weak president in almost every respect. But in general he was well liked and when he died unexpectedly he was mourned throughout the nation. Until word of all scandals during his time in office broke. Within a few years, his administration was considered nothing but bribery and scam and his ultimate place in history has taken a hit for it.
And we literally just found out this week that he did, indeed, have a love child while in the White House. For documentary evidence of this event, I would recommend the learned teachings of the John Oliver and his HBO series that was on last night. He does a completely marvelous job of reviewing the issue in depth.
War & Crisis
How do you move on after a World War. Harding faced that question upon entering office. He didn’t support the League of Nations nor most of Wilson’s policies and he left almost all foreign affairs issues to his SecState. Recognizing and trading with the new Russian government was an issue that was becoming more of a problem under Harding but he died before he truly did anything about it.
Harding also entered office in the midst of a post war depression and was hard pressed to lead any policy on it. If not for his cabinet it could have been worse by the time he died, but they effectively passed some tax cuts and would eventually help the economy for Coolidge. Overall, the crisis’ that his administration would face were their own and happened after he died when the corruption scandals exploded.
Economy
The economy was just starting to recover when he died and with his policies in place thanks to the leadership of Mellon, the economy exploded in the rest of the 20’s until, well, you know. Most of the changes in the economy though weren’t due to his leadership but to Mellon’s relationships with business leaders. Harding believed that government should help business and was about as diametrically opposed to the trust busting policies of previous administrations as you could be. With Mellon fighting for more and more pro business tax and tariff policies, Harding went along and helped to get the economy rolling again.
Foreign Policy
With help from Hughes and Hoover, Harding’s plan on foreign policy was to use American money to be the strength of the nation and not its military might. He allowed them to get the first solid oil treaty with middle east countries to feed the growing development of America. Harding believed in helping Europe recover from the war and sought congressional backing to refinance and renegotiate war debts. He was ultimately successful with England, but congress balked at the first plan with Germany. Eventually though, Harding pushed for and got the Dawes Plan passed to lower Germany’s payments which helped the German economy for a time. Most of the rest of Europe got similar deals to help the economies there as well.
With Harding’s support, SecState Hughes also began the first real disarmarment talks with world powers to scale down military power in those nations. Eventually an agreement was passed to decrease the growth of naval power which resulted ultimately in Japan coming out of the treaty with the ability to have the most powerful navy in the pacific. The treaty also ratified America’s belief that China should be treated as an open door, which had been American policy for some time. Harding also eased up on Latin America issues, especially in Mexico where Harding ultimately gave Mexico what it was looking for and it gained American recognition of its government again. Overall, Harding was more peacemaker than imperialist.
Executive Skills/Congress
Harding believed that Congress should so all the hard work in the nation. And his pledge to have the best minds in his cabinet was fulfilled as above, but the rest of the seats in his government were awful and have damaged his standing in history. Congress passed most of the republican agenda leading into the 1923 midterms but democrats took a ton of seats back showing that people were ok with Harding’s administration but not so much as to give him a rubber stamp. Seeing the loss of power in Washington, Harding finally sought to be more of a leader and began a nationwide tour to talk to the people about republican policies and set the stage for his re-election. The trip is probably what ended up killing him.
And after his death, the corruption of his staff and cabinet became clear. His Ohio Gang of close friends ruined his reputation. The Veteran’s Bureau scandal was a mess. It was later learned that Harding knew a little of the problems there and went to Herbert Hoover for advice over it but wouldn’t give Hoover any details. Of course, he also was sitting in the Oval during the TeaPot Dome scandal as well though it appears that he really didn’t know anything about it. But it did ultimate result in one of his cabinet members being the first to be arrested and imprisoned for a scandal.
And the justice department was a mess a biblical proportions. Overall, Harding’s trust of the wrong people is not unlike Grant’s. But history has been able to piece together than while Harding didn’t know everything that was going on, he probably knew enough and let it go to and as a result has to get a hit for his cabinet and how they worked with Congress. Democrats of course latched on to anything they could find to hit Harding, even after his death and hoped that some of it would hit Vice President Coolidge as well.
Justice/Rights
Harding was actually an ok civil rights President. He spoke to a mixed crowd in Alabama pleading for equal treatment of all people. He actually said that literacy tests for voting were ok if they were applied equally to the races. Though in the end little was done in his short time in office on black rights. On immigration he supported a bill that restricted immigration into the country. When you look deeper at his bills and the rest of the anti-immigration stuff that was happening in the 1920’s was that the parties supported the immigration of people that would most likely vote for their party and tried to limit the other sides immigrants. Harding fell in line there.
Context
The job was too big for Harding. The successes of his administration weren’t because of his leadership but because of Mellon, Hughes and Hoover. If the President’s job was more public relations and less actual work, Harding would have been one of the better guys most likely. He’d rather play cards and golf than deal with policy and the public. And while he managed to keep a solid standing during his life, almost immediately after he did the public saw the problems that his administration caused. With the country coming out of the World War and getting poised to be an international power, Harding took the opportunity to use more peace, diplomacy and commerce instead of military power and he gets decent grades for that. You have to wonder if the reduction on naval power was a signal to Japan that was answered in 1941 or not.
Conclusion
Solid but unspectacular is about the best you can probably give Harding, until you give him credit for what his administration did that wasn’t realized until after his death. Harding was the President that openly began using immigration policy for presidential electoral reasons. His pro-business policies and belief that government should help business began the roaring 20’s which collapsed onto themselves. But his Europe policy was humanitarian in many respects. On persuasion he gets a 3, on crisis he gets a 3, on economy 6, on foreign policy 7, on Congress 2, civil rights 5, and context 2. 28 total points. Probably a bit more generous than most historians would give him. Maybe not. Middle of the pack at best. It’s hard to imagine, given what we know about him, that he didn’t know about all the scandals in his administration. It’s more fair to believe that he knew, but didn’t know the depth of them or what they would mean, and that he didn’t think that they were really that bad for the most part. That hurts his legacy and deservedly so.
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
So with Madonna... should anyone be listed here that moved to England and affects a British accent?
dparker713
Footballguy
Young Mickey vs. Young Mays is close enough that I don't think there's a right answer. Once Mick got hurt it was no contest, but early on they were both amazing. Its still silly to think that Duke Snyder was the third best CFer in NYC at the time. Unreal.
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
Care to unpack this for a "haven't read the books" guy?
Follow-up: Have you read the books?
timschochet
Footballguy
The first 3. But I read a George RR Martin interview and he refused to confirm it and even responded with a Yoda like question: "So you think Jon Snow's dead do you?"
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
Public Acumen/Persuasion
Coolidge came out of nowhere. Most people knew little about him and he wasn’t an important part of the Harding administration. When he ascended to the Presidency no one knew what to make of him and it almost immediately recognized that he wouldn’t be the President after the next election.
But people learned quick. For the remainder of Harding’s term he kept to Harding’s policies. The scandals of Harding didn’t touch Coolidge. While many people thought that he didn’t attack the corruption enough, he was methodical about the investigation and prosecution of the scandals. The public ended up respecting and liking him as a cool head who would get the job done. The public spoke in the next election too. With a great backroom political skill, Coolidge immediately starting working with his supporters to clear the republican party of all challengers and by the time of the convention he ruled over it like a king. The republicans used the media perfectly, told their story on a pretty unified front, expressed policy positions and all the while Coolidge stood above ugly politics and kept an aura of just being a calm guy that was cool headed. The democrats were a mess and held the worst convention in American history. And as a result Coolidge obliterated them in the election and took office on his own.
War & Crisis
Coolidge’s main focus while in office was economic and tax policy. He continued Harding’s attempts to ease rebuilding from after the war in Europe and he worked with Latin America to ease tensions there. About the biggest crisis he faced was the prosecution of scandals from Harding’s administration, and in that he wasn’t a forceful leader but a reserved one who let the system do its job.
If you want to look for something crisis worthy the Mississippi River flooded in 1927 in the worst domestic natural disaster in America not equaled really until Hurricane Katrina. Coolidge sent Hoover there to try to help everyone and Hoover’s response to ask for a federal program and money to help the people effected. Coolidge first opposed using the federal government to help states in the crisis but backed down and a compromise was reached to assist the areas effected.
Economy
Coolidge believed that the president shouldn’t be active in policy but he was a hard worker. Focusing on the economy, he fought for the Revenue Acts of 1924 and 1926 sharply cutting all taxes across the board. His policies did little to stem speculation and really in many ways just let the economy grow without checks or worry about any imbalance. The economy exploded obviously, but it was going to come crashing down. He didn’t believe in too much regulation, keeping with Harding’s desire to have government work with business instead of against it.
Coolidge did little to lead a national policy to help farmers at the same time. Bills brought before Congress to assist them were vetoed by Coolidge but he failed to come up with any alternate plans. When the depression hit, the Coolidge’s policies probably made it worse for them. You can look at Coolidge and say that he was a typical conservative republican who wanted the markets to run themselves and stayed away from as much regulation and taxes as possible. It worked. For about 6 years. And then it all came crashing down.
Foreign Policy
He had little background in international affairs, didn’t really focus on them and left almost all of it to Hughes. He did not support the League of Nations and wanted to focus on American economic gains in the world. He supported the Kellogg Braine Pact which called for an understanding that war solves no problems in the world. But as a declaration it had no enforcement power and did little to stop the events of the next 10 years.
In what might be one of his greatest moves, at the time, he actually handled Latin America. Growing resentment in the region over American policy and increased pressure from American money interests in the region forced the nations there to call for a regional conference where the more militant leaders wanted to demand changes in American policy. Held in Havanna, Cuba, Coolidge actually traveled there himself to address the caucus. With his leadership eventually a resolution was agreed that called for America to not use direct military power in the region. It formed the basis for FDR’s policy in Latin America in his term.
Executive Skills/Congress
Keeping the better heads of Harding’s cabinet, Coolidge was a very successful President. Congress worked with his economic plans and passed sweeping tax legislation that changed the economy for the good – for a time. He will get a solid grade here but not a great one.
Justice/Rights
He signed an anti-immigration act. He only mildly attacked the KKK when the marched in Washington. He supported more civil rights for blacks but never pushed for anything to get them there. At a time when society was changing in a more open and progressive way, there was considerable push back and Coolidge never really stood above the times to do anything here.
Context
Coolidge was a fairly run of the mill cool headed guy for the roaring 20’s which may have ultimately been what the country in general wanted. Society was changing with women’s rights starting to become an issue. Europe was rebuilding and there were no wars to be had. The focus of the time was growing the economy. He certainly did that. But far too much way to fast at the end of the day.
On most issues of the day though Coolidge kept a low profile. That does not make a fantastic leader
Conclusion
On persuasion Silent Cal is going to clock in at 5, on crisis 4, economy 5, foreign policy 5, congress 7, civil rights 4 and context 6. 36 total points. You can’t not hit him for the coming depression. His economic policies opened the door for it. And because of that and the lack of anything bigger than the times he isn’t going to score with the greats.
Public Acumen/Persuasion
Coolidge came out of nowhere. Most people knew little about him and he wasn’t an important part of the Harding administration. When he ascended to the Presidency no one knew what to make of him and it almost immediately recognized that he wouldn’t be the President after the next election.
But people learned quick. For the remainder of Harding’s term he kept to Harding’s policies. The scandals of Harding didn’t touch Coolidge. While many people thought that he didn’t attack the corruption enough, he was methodical about the investigation and prosecution of the scandals. The public ended up respecting and liking him as a cool head who would get the job done. The public spoke in the next election too. With a great backroom political skill, Coolidge immediately starting working with his supporters to clear the republican party of all challengers and by the time of the convention he ruled over it like a king. The republicans used the media perfectly, told their story on a pretty unified front, expressed policy positions and all the while Coolidge stood above ugly politics and kept an aura of just being a calm guy that was cool headed. The democrats were a mess and held the worst convention in American history. And as a result Coolidge obliterated them in the election and took office on his own.
War & Crisis
Coolidge’s main focus while in office was economic and tax policy. He continued Harding’s attempts to ease rebuilding from after the war in Europe and he worked with Latin America to ease tensions there. About the biggest crisis he faced was the prosecution of scandals from Harding’s administration, and in that he wasn’t a forceful leader but a reserved one who let the system do its job.
If you want to look for something crisis worthy the Mississippi River flooded in 1927 in the worst domestic natural disaster in America not equaled really until Hurricane Katrina. Coolidge sent Hoover there to try to help everyone and Hoover’s response to ask for a federal program and money to help the people effected. Coolidge first opposed using the federal government to help states in the crisis but backed down and a compromise was reached to assist the areas effected.
Economy
Coolidge believed that the president shouldn’t be active in policy but he was a hard worker. Focusing on the economy, he fought for the Revenue Acts of 1924 and 1926 sharply cutting all taxes across the board. His policies did little to stem speculation and really in many ways just let the economy grow without checks or worry about any imbalance. The economy exploded obviously, but it was going to come crashing down. He didn’t believe in too much regulation, keeping with Harding’s desire to have government work with business instead of against it.
Coolidge did little to lead a national policy to help farmers at the same time. Bills brought before Congress to assist them were vetoed by Coolidge but he failed to come up with any alternate plans. When the depression hit, the Coolidge’s policies probably made it worse for them. You can look at Coolidge and say that he was a typical conservative republican who wanted the markets to run themselves and stayed away from as much regulation and taxes as possible. It worked. For about 6 years. And then it all came crashing down.
Foreign Policy
He had little background in international affairs, didn’t really focus on them and left almost all of it to Hughes. He did not support the League of Nations and wanted to focus on American economic gains in the world. He supported the Kellogg Braine Pact which called for an understanding that war solves no problems in the world. But as a declaration it had no enforcement power and did little to stop the events of the next 10 years.
In what might be one of his greatest moves, at the time, he actually handled Latin America. Growing resentment in the region over American policy and increased pressure from American money interests in the region forced the nations there to call for a regional conference where the more militant leaders wanted to demand changes in American policy. Held in Havanna, Cuba, Coolidge actually traveled there himself to address the caucus. With his leadership eventually a resolution was agreed that called for America to not use direct military power in the region. It formed the basis for FDR’s policy in Latin America in his term.
Executive Skills/Congress
Keeping the better heads of Harding’s cabinet, Coolidge was a very successful President. Congress worked with his economic plans and passed sweeping tax legislation that changed the economy for the good – for a time. He will get a solid grade here but not a great one.
Justice/Rights
He signed an anti-immigration act. He only mildly attacked the KKK when the marched in Washington. He supported more civil rights for blacks but never pushed for anything to get them there. At a time when society was changing in a more open and progressive way, there was considerable push back and Coolidge never really stood above the times to do anything here.
Context
Coolidge was a fairly run of the mill cool headed guy for the roaring 20’s which may have ultimately been what the country in general wanted. Society was changing with women’s rights starting to become an issue. Europe was rebuilding and there were no wars to be had. The focus of the time was growing the economy. He certainly did that. But far too much way to fast at the end of the day.
On most issues of the day though Coolidge kept a low profile. That does not make a fantastic leader
Conclusion
On persuasion Silent Cal is going to clock in at 5, on crisis 4, economy 5, foreign policy 5, congress 7, civil rights 4 and context 6. 36 total points. You can’t not hit him for the coming depression. His economic policies opened the door for it. And because of that and the lack of anything bigger than the times he isn’t going to score with the greats.
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
76. Gregory Pincus
This is the first guy on my list who I can't find any quotes for. He may not by the last, guess we'll see.
Gregory Pincus was an obscure biologist from New Jersey who attended Cornell and then Harvard. He lived a mostly quiet life tinkering in the lab until in the early 1950s he met Margaret Sanger of Planned Parenthood fame, who gave Dr. Pincus a grant to study ways to chemically prevent reproduction. The result was that Pincus produced Enovid, a contraceptive pill, better known as simply "The Pill."
And so a social revolution began, not just in America but in the entire western world. Today, The Pill (slightly altered and evolved from Pincus' original formula) is used by 12 million women in the USA and over 100 million women worldwide. Wikipedia does a decent job of describing the long term effects to society:
Claudia Goldin, among others, argue that this new contraceptive technology was a key player in forming women's modern economic role, in that it prolonged the age at which women first married allowing them to invest in education and other forms of human capital as well as generally become more career-oriented. Soon after the birth control pill was legalized, there was a sharp increase in college attendance and graduation rates for women.[138] From an economic point of view, the birth control pill reduced the cost of staying in school. The ability to control fertility without sacrificing sexual relationships allowed women to make long term educational and career plans.
Because the Pill was so effective, and soon so widespread, it also heightened the debate about the moral and health consequences of pre-marital sex and promiscuity. Never before had sexual activity been so divorced from reproduction. For a couple using the Pill, intercourse became purely an expression of love, or a means of physical pleasure, or both; but it was no longer a means of reproduction. While this was true of previous contraceptives, their relatively high failure rates and their less widespread use failed to emphasize this distinction as clearly as did the Pill. The spread of oral contraceptive use thus led many religious figures and institutions to debate the proper role of sexuality and its relationship to procreation. The Roman Catholic Church in particular, after studying the phenomenon of oral contraceptives, re-emphasized the stated teaching on birth control in the 1968 papal encyclical Humanae vitae. The encyclical reiterated the established Catholic teaching that artificial contraception distorts the nature and purpose of sex.
Not mentioned here is the potential positive effects to human overpopulation (though in the countries that suffer most from this, often in Asia, the Pill is still little in evidence.
Pincus died in 1967, just as the Pill had reached widespread use. It's doubtful he realized the massive changes to society that he made possible. Despite that, Pincus is an inevitable and worthy name on this list.
Next up: The real life Howard Roark...
This is the first guy on my list who I can't find any quotes for. He may not by the last, guess we'll see.
Gregory Pincus was an obscure biologist from New Jersey who attended Cornell and then Harvard. He lived a mostly quiet life tinkering in the lab until in the early 1950s he met Margaret Sanger of Planned Parenthood fame, who gave Dr. Pincus a grant to study ways to chemically prevent reproduction. The result was that Pincus produced Enovid, a contraceptive pill, better known as simply "The Pill."
And so a social revolution began, not just in America but in the entire western world. Today, The Pill (slightly altered and evolved from Pincus' original formula) is used by 12 million women in the USA and over 100 million women worldwide. Wikipedia does a decent job of describing the long term effects to society:
Claudia Goldin, among others, argue that this new contraceptive technology was a key player in forming women's modern economic role, in that it prolonged the age at which women first married allowing them to invest in education and other forms of human capital as well as generally become more career-oriented. Soon after the birth control pill was legalized, there was a sharp increase in college attendance and graduation rates for women.[138] From an economic point of view, the birth control pill reduced the cost of staying in school. The ability to control fertility without sacrificing sexual relationships allowed women to make long term educational and career plans.
Because the Pill was so effective, and soon so widespread, it also heightened the debate about the moral and health consequences of pre-marital sex and promiscuity. Never before had sexual activity been so divorced from reproduction. For a couple using the Pill, intercourse became purely an expression of love, or a means of physical pleasure, or both; but it was no longer a means of reproduction. While this was true of previous contraceptives, their relatively high failure rates and their less widespread use failed to emphasize this distinction as clearly as did the Pill. The spread of oral contraceptive use thus led many religious figures and institutions to debate the proper role of sexuality and its relationship to procreation. The Roman Catholic Church in particular, after studying the phenomenon of oral contraceptives, re-emphasized the stated teaching on birth control in the 1968 papal encyclical Humanae vitae. The encyclical reiterated the established Catholic teaching that artificial contraception distorts the nature and purpose of sex.
Not mentioned here is the potential positive effects to human overpopulation (though in the countries that suffer most from this, often in Asia, the Pill is still little in evidence.
Pincus died in 1967, just as the Pill had reached widespread use. It's doubtful he realized the massive changes to society that he made possible. Despite that, Pincus is an inevitable and worthy name on this list.
Next up: The real life Howard Roark...
Uwe Blab
Footballguy
Jeez, I'll say...They had the freaking Klan practically running the convention.
This is what has been great about your write-ups Yankee, I just spent a half hour only reading about that convention and how ridiculous it was. There have been scores of those throughout your president break downs. Thanks for all the interesting nuggets.
I think it is more how Tim feels about their impotance on things Tim sees as important. Trying to apply some logical criteria to the list is fruitless, so to speak.I think I've figured it out. Its not greatest, its not most important or influential. Its the most popular. So, Elvis will be #1 overall. Maybe Mickey Mouse. Eh, probably Mickey Mouse.I'm finding it hard to understand how you can be making this worse as you go along but you are. It's truly remarkable.You've been speechless about my picks for several weeks now. Yet you keep typing about them!
timschochet
Footballguy
Great question. I have at least one person on this list who would regard nearly everybody else on this list as an illegal alien.
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
I'd buy TimSchochet a beer after he beats Oats and Woz in the pretend losing weight thread.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
Public Acumen/Persuasion
There are few people in our political history that can be considered a better man than Herbert Hoover. Because of the catastrophe of the Great Depression he is mostly an afterthought in speaking about Presidents, and he isn’t going to score with the greats. But he was a great political leader in America and we should honor him somehow, more than we have, for his work for our country and ultimately the world.
But we are looking at his presidency. Coming off the heals of serving Presidents Harding and Coolidge, Hoover was the front runner for the Republican nomination almost without equal. The Democrats were still split in the party without a central power base and it resulted in Hoover decimating them in the election. Hoover promised an end to poverty during his time in office. HE was supported by business, women and every corner of the Republican power base. He turned it into winning southern states by large margins. Hoover’s first nine months in office were tending toward well above average. He signaled new federal Indian policy, he fought for tariff reform, he got the federal Farm Board established to help the agriculture sector that was still having problems. He convened several commissions to study on and work towards solving the problems of the day and he believed that the federal government should be a small efficient machine that helped all sectors of the nation succeed for their individualism. Hoover knew that the economy was tilting towards instability as did most of his very sound cabinet but none of them foresaw the depth of the problem until it was way too late.
But for those first 9 months, Hoover was the President that everyone who voted for him wanted. He ran the country and the government well and was liked and admired in various sectors of the nation. He would default to about a 7 here. His loss of the entire nation just three months later will decimate that score.
War & Crisis
The Great Depression was not solely the fault of any one policy in America. The world economy played just as an important role, but America didn’t help itself. By the time Hoover took the White House, we know now, that the entire American economy was a house of cards. Speculation in the market was rampant, investors playing with fake money thinking the gravy train would never end; wages never grew with profits, creating fewer and fewer consumers for the massive amounts of good our factories were producing; Europe, though given some relief by previous presidents, simply couldn’t afford to rebuild itself, especially Germany, and their economies started to stall considerably; and the Federal Reserve drastically cut interest rates to foster a continued boom with no support in the base of the economy to sustain that growth. Factories produced more and more items that couldn’t be sold, the agriculture sector couldn’t grow and there ended up being no consumers for the products that America was creating – here or abroad.
In October 1929, it all came crashing down. And when it crashed, no one knew how far it would fall. After the first crash Hoover publically told the country that America was on good financial footing and that it was just a slight problem. Privately, Hoover worked with every corner of the business sector to counteract the problem. He called for a reduction in taxes to help stimulate the economy, he got the Federal Reserve to loosen credit lending to get more money into the system, he begged state and local leaders to invest in public works projects to create jobs, and he organized a series of conferences with labor and business to get everyone to work together to stall the coming calamity. He got business leaders to agree to not cut jobs or wages and got labor to agree to not strike for more wages. It was a phenomenal plan in theory and not very much different from what FDR ultimately did, and few people in history give Hoover credit for it.
But his basis for his plan was that the downturn was temporary and not nearly as bad as he thought it was. By December of 1929, federal studies showed that the economy was in for even worse times and millions were losing their jobs. In early 1930 Hoover signed the Smoot Hawley Tariff which raised tariffs to historic highs. Democrats ultimately blamed the depression on that single act, but the depression was already well underway. After the passage of the tariff business and labor leaders informed Hoover that the worst of the crash was over and that the economy was going to rebound, which Hoover informed the nation of. This announcement ended up being his downfall because it wasn’t remotely true and the public blamed Hoover for everything that happened after as a result.
After the midterms Hoover changed course as the economy was not picking up as he was told it would and led a fight to raise taxes which hurt him in every corner of the country. He also led the charge for the Revenue Act of 1932 which included a sales tax designed to raise revenue to close the federal budget gap from the deficit spending he started in 1929. The fight over that bill poisoned the Republican party and with it severely hurt Hoover even more. The bill ultimately passed without the sales tax. The economy kept getting worse and not better and Hoover seemed to portray an air of a President who had no idea what he was doing.
And then the Bonus Army. History is clear – Hoover gave specific instructions to allow the veterans to protest and ordered the military to peacefully escort the protestors to their camps and keep the peace. SecWar Harley didn’t listen and ordered General McArthur to use force to move them into camps. McArthur then exceeded his orders and attempted to force them out of Washington altogether. With his cabinet and military commander specifically not listening to him, Hoover fell on the sword with the public and took the blame for the actions of his underlings and the public hated him for it. Hoover’s legacy was destroyed in that moment of leadership for taking the blame, and failure to lead his own subordinates.
Hoover had little to no chance to win reelection and Franklin Roosevelt took the Democratic Party into the White House blaming every single thing wrong in the country on Hoover.
Economy
Hoover’s first attempt to fix the economy in 1930 was reasonable and frankly good policy for the times. He simply failed to understand the depth of the problem. When he changed course in 1931 and worried about the deficit instead of the basic economy he lost sight of the problem and the goal. His ultimate failure is a bad one because Hoover knew commerce. He knew how to feed nations in the worst of times. He knew how to help rebuild destroyed economies and he knew how to work with business. And those talents escaped him once he was President.
Foreign Policy
When the depression started Hoover called for a halt to all intergovernment payments of war debt which was very well received in Europe. As the economy in America got worse more and more leaders demanded that Europe be forced to pay their debts to America. He worked on disarmarment internationally. He engineered the Good Neighbor Policy with Latin America – something that FDR gets ultimate credit for in history without mention that it was Hoover that started it for sure. And then in the midst of everything he had to deal with Japan invading China. Hoover did not want and could not fight a war. Eventually he supported a move to threaten Japan that if they continued America would renounce the agreement to disarm the pacific and begin to move in the other direction. FDR would have to deal with the consequences.
Executive Skills/Congress
If not for the Great Depression he would get a 10 here. He was a great executive. He worked well with Congress for the first 9 months and then began a solid economic plan throughout all sectors of government that might have worked had they continued focusing on the economy. But by the midterms, Hoover was being hit from all sides, disagreed with his cabinet, listened to the wrong people and was ultimately unable to stop the country from falling even further into depression.
Justice/Rights
He fell on the sword with the Bonus Army but he didn’t order what happened. His Indian policies were far more humanitarian than any other president before him. But he pretty much ignored all other civil liberty issues because of the crisis of the day.
Context
Hoover failed to lead in a dark time and eventually failed to understand the true problem. Or maybe he did understand it but simply couldn’t fix it. Maybe it wasn’t fixable. Europe wasn’t going to recover immediately so the market to buy American goods was going to be weak. But failing to see the true nature of the problem is a massive hit on Hoover’s legacy. He was poised to be a good to great President those first 9 months. And then everything came crashing down.
Conclusion
IF this exercise were scoring the Presidents on the entirety of their service to the country then the top three would be Adams, Washington and arguably Hoover. That Hoover wasn’t able to take the already great legacy of his as a leader into the White House and deal with the Great Depression is one of the great tragedies of our political history. You can certainly argue that the policies of the previous 10 years before he got in office made the Depression inevitable, especially when you factor in Europe, and you would be more right than wrong. With that, you can’t fault Hoover for the Depression starting. But you have to fault him for failing to understand the crisis. And unlike FDR, he didn’t have a World War to bring about a renewed energy in the economy. Hoover’s initial plans to deal with the crisis weren’t that dissimilar from FDR’s but they didn’t work in the end, and he dropped the ball after the midterms and lost focus on the true issues.
He also gets too much blame for the Bonus Army fiasco. He probably and should have handled it better, but that falls into Douglas McArthur’s lap. He was egomaniac that was a problem for more than one President. Still, Hoover isn’t going to score great as a President. On persuasion he gets a 3, on crisis he gets a 3, economy 2, foreign policy 6, congress 4, civil rights 4 and context 4. 26 total points. We have a lot in history to be thankful for in the service of Herbert Hoover. His presidency though is going to be engulfed by the legend of the guy that followed him.
Public Acumen/Persuasion
There are few people in our political history that can be considered a better man than Herbert Hoover. Because of the catastrophe of the Great Depression he is mostly an afterthought in speaking about Presidents, and he isn’t going to score with the greats. But he was a great political leader in America and we should honor him somehow, more than we have, for his work for our country and ultimately the world.
But we are looking at his presidency. Coming off the heals of serving Presidents Harding and Coolidge, Hoover was the front runner for the Republican nomination almost without equal. The Democrats were still split in the party without a central power base and it resulted in Hoover decimating them in the election. Hoover promised an end to poverty during his time in office. HE was supported by business, women and every corner of the Republican power base. He turned it into winning southern states by large margins. Hoover’s first nine months in office were tending toward well above average. He signaled new federal Indian policy, he fought for tariff reform, he got the federal Farm Board established to help the agriculture sector that was still having problems. He convened several commissions to study on and work towards solving the problems of the day and he believed that the federal government should be a small efficient machine that helped all sectors of the nation succeed for their individualism. Hoover knew that the economy was tilting towards instability as did most of his very sound cabinet but none of them foresaw the depth of the problem until it was way too late.
But for those first 9 months, Hoover was the President that everyone who voted for him wanted. He ran the country and the government well and was liked and admired in various sectors of the nation. He would default to about a 7 here. His loss of the entire nation just three months later will decimate that score.
War & Crisis
The Great Depression was not solely the fault of any one policy in America. The world economy played just as an important role, but America didn’t help itself. By the time Hoover took the White House, we know now, that the entire American economy was a house of cards. Speculation in the market was rampant, investors playing with fake money thinking the gravy train would never end; wages never grew with profits, creating fewer and fewer consumers for the massive amounts of good our factories were producing; Europe, though given some relief by previous presidents, simply couldn’t afford to rebuild itself, especially Germany, and their economies started to stall considerably; and the Federal Reserve drastically cut interest rates to foster a continued boom with no support in the base of the economy to sustain that growth. Factories produced more and more items that couldn’t be sold, the agriculture sector couldn’t grow and there ended up being no consumers for the products that America was creating – here or abroad.
In October 1929, it all came crashing down. And when it crashed, no one knew how far it would fall. After the first crash Hoover publically told the country that America was on good financial footing and that it was just a slight problem. Privately, Hoover worked with every corner of the business sector to counteract the problem. He called for a reduction in taxes to help stimulate the economy, he got the Federal Reserve to loosen credit lending to get more money into the system, he begged state and local leaders to invest in public works projects to create jobs, and he organized a series of conferences with labor and business to get everyone to work together to stall the coming calamity. He got business leaders to agree to not cut jobs or wages and got labor to agree to not strike for more wages. It was a phenomenal plan in theory and not very much different from what FDR ultimately did, and few people in history give Hoover credit for it.
But his basis for his plan was that the downturn was temporary and not nearly as bad as he thought it was. By December of 1929, federal studies showed that the economy was in for even worse times and millions were losing their jobs. In early 1930 Hoover signed the Smoot Hawley Tariff which raised tariffs to historic highs. Democrats ultimately blamed the depression on that single act, but the depression was already well underway. After the passage of the tariff business and labor leaders informed Hoover that the worst of the crash was over and that the economy was going to rebound, which Hoover informed the nation of. This announcement ended up being his downfall because it wasn’t remotely true and the public blamed Hoover for everything that happened after as a result.
After the midterms Hoover changed course as the economy was not picking up as he was told it would and led a fight to raise taxes which hurt him in every corner of the country. He also led the charge for the Revenue Act of 1932 which included a sales tax designed to raise revenue to close the federal budget gap from the deficit spending he started in 1929. The fight over that bill poisoned the Republican party and with it severely hurt Hoover even more. The bill ultimately passed without the sales tax. The economy kept getting worse and not better and Hoover seemed to portray an air of a President who had no idea what he was doing.
And then the Bonus Army. History is clear – Hoover gave specific instructions to allow the veterans to protest and ordered the military to peacefully escort the protestors to their camps and keep the peace. SecWar Harley didn’t listen and ordered General McArthur to use force to move them into camps. McArthur then exceeded his orders and attempted to force them out of Washington altogether. With his cabinet and military commander specifically not listening to him, Hoover fell on the sword with the public and took the blame for the actions of his underlings and the public hated him for it. Hoover’s legacy was destroyed in that moment of leadership for taking the blame, and failure to lead his own subordinates.
Hoover had little to no chance to win reelection and Franklin Roosevelt took the Democratic Party into the White House blaming every single thing wrong in the country on Hoover.
Economy
Hoover’s first attempt to fix the economy in 1930 was reasonable and frankly good policy for the times. He simply failed to understand the depth of the problem. When he changed course in 1931 and worried about the deficit instead of the basic economy he lost sight of the problem and the goal. His ultimate failure is a bad one because Hoover knew commerce. He knew how to feed nations in the worst of times. He knew how to help rebuild destroyed economies and he knew how to work with business. And those talents escaped him once he was President.
Foreign Policy
When the depression started Hoover called for a halt to all intergovernment payments of war debt which was very well received in Europe. As the economy in America got worse more and more leaders demanded that Europe be forced to pay their debts to America. He worked on disarmarment internationally. He engineered the Good Neighbor Policy with Latin America – something that FDR gets ultimate credit for in history without mention that it was Hoover that started it for sure. And then in the midst of everything he had to deal with Japan invading China. Hoover did not want and could not fight a war. Eventually he supported a move to threaten Japan that if they continued America would renounce the agreement to disarm the pacific and begin to move in the other direction. FDR would have to deal with the consequences.
Executive Skills/Congress
If not for the Great Depression he would get a 10 here. He was a great executive. He worked well with Congress for the first 9 months and then began a solid economic plan throughout all sectors of government that might have worked had they continued focusing on the economy. But by the midterms, Hoover was being hit from all sides, disagreed with his cabinet, listened to the wrong people and was ultimately unable to stop the country from falling even further into depression.
Justice/Rights
He fell on the sword with the Bonus Army but he didn’t order what happened. His Indian policies were far more humanitarian than any other president before him. But he pretty much ignored all other civil liberty issues because of the crisis of the day.
Context
Hoover failed to lead in a dark time and eventually failed to understand the true problem. Or maybe he did understand it but simply couldn’t fix it. Maybe it wasn’t fixable. Europe wasn’t going to recover immediately so the market to buy American goods was going to be weak. But failing to see the true nature of the problem is a massive hit on Hoover’s legacy. He was poised to be a good to great President those first 9 months. And then everything came crashing down.
Conclusion
IF this exercise were scoring the Presidents on the entirety of their service to the country then the top three would be Adams, Washington and arguably Hoover. That Hoover wasn’t able to take the already great legacy of his as a leader into the White House and deal with the Great Depression is one of the great tragedies of our political history. You can certainly argue that the policies of the previous 10 years before he got in office made the Depression inevitable, especially when you factor in Europe, and you would be more right than wrong. With that, you can’t fault Hoover for the Depression starting. But you have to fault him for failing to understand the crisis. And unlike FDR, he didn’t have a World War to bring about a renewed energy in the economy. Hoover’s initial plans to deal with the crisis weren’t that dissimilar from FDR’s but they didn’t work in the end, and he dropped the ball after the midterms and lost focus on the true issues.
He also gets too much blame for the Bonus Army fiasco. He probably and should have handled it better, but that falls into Douglas McArthur’s lap. He was egomaniac that was a problem for more than one President. Still, Hoover isn’t going to score great as a President. On persuasion he gets a 3, on crisis he gets a 3, economy 2, foreign policy 6, congress 4, civil rights 4 and context 4. 26 total points. We have a lot in history to be thankful for in the service of Herbert Hoover. His presidency though is going to be engulfed by the legend of the guy that followed him.
timschochet
Footballguy
I agree that Hoover received too much blame for the Bonus Army. And yes, MacArthur was an egomaniac. I'll discuss him a little later.
Pretty good writeup, Yankee. The only thing I would add is that Hoover deserves some major criticism for his transition period with FDR- with the exception of Buchanan and Lincoln, it might have been the most crucial transition in American history, because the banks were failing left and right. Hoover did not handle it well. He detested FDR and tried to bind him to previous policies, which made the panic worse.
Pretty good writeup, Yankee. The only thing I would add is that Hoover deserves some major criticism for his transition period with FDR- with the exception of Buchanan and Lincoln, it might have been the most crucial transition in American history, because the banks were failing left and right. Hoover did not handle it well. He detested FDR and tried to bind him to previous policies, which made the panic worse.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
Public Acumen/Persuasion
We are now in the era of Presidents where anyone that is truly following this exercise knows enough about them that long paragraphs aren’t always going to be necessary. And there have been libraries of books written about every aspect of Franklin Roosevelt, his life, his presidency and his legacy. He is going to score in the top of the class whether anyone truly likes it or not.
How do you score a President who ran four times and won all 4 in convincing fashion? How do you score a president who lead the nation and ultimately the world through the worst global war in human history? How do you measure the persuasive power of a President who delivered what is remembered as one of the most powerful and important lines in American political history? You give him a 10. Even if you don’t like the guy. FDR did what no one before could do and only maybe 2 guys could after if the rules didn’t change. FDR took the lessons of Woodrow Wilson and the failures of Herbert Hoover and turned them into the most powerful presidential administration since Abraham Lincoln – war does that. But FDR was a towering figure that his political opponents simply couldn’t unseat. The only reason he wasn’t considered for a 5th term is that he died. FDR gets a perfect score here.
War & Crisis
We know about the Great Depression. FDR’s first term and his New Deal started a domestic policy campaign to attack the problem. By the end of his first term though the economy was still in bad shape. In his second term growing tensions in Europe began towering over even the depression. The second new deal round of policies began in earnest what everyone considers the New Deal. By the end of his second term, Germany’s Adolf Hitler was going to change the world.
You can’t argue that FDR didn’t attack the depression. He more interventionist into the American economy than any other president. Yet for all the intervention, many of the policies are and were conservative in nature. But by 1939, global war was the more important issue and it was the issue that finally broke the depression and turned around the American economy.
World War II was no unlike previous wars in many ways, especially as it relates to Germany, England, France, western Europe and even Russia. European history is full of such massive scale wars. On the heals of the end of World War I Europe was no stranger to full mobilization. But what makes World War II different is that it became the first war that humanity discovered the ability to destroy itself completely. And FDR led the charge for the weapons do it. Reviewing how he handled the war is a waste of time. The history is pretty set on that, save the continued stories about the possibilities that he knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen and/or wanted it to happen. Even if you were going to hit him for that the rest of the scoring here pulls his total back up.
Any ideal of America being isolationist ended with World War II and the entirety of global politics changed as a result. The world that FDR led in 1943 was a vastly different world by 1945 and the years that followed. But for his time in office, with the two most important issues of American history after the revolution and the civil war, FDR led the nation to ultimate victory over both.
Economy
You could argue that no President before FDR dealt with the economy so forcefully. If we listed the various policies, programs, government agencies and commissions that he formed to deal with the depression and then mobilization for war the list would take several pages. But we should be mindful that all of his policies directly attacking the depression did not end the economic crisis. The war did. And while FDR didn’t start the war, he certainly used it to reshape the American economy. He has to get top grades here as well because again if our basic fallback is whether or not the economy was better when he left office, there might not be a clearer definition of that change in any administration than his.
Foreign Policy
Another top grade here for FDR as well. Of course his foreign policy was World War II and his Latin America policy started under Hoover and then was controlled by events of the war anyway, but again, going through each and every issue here is a waste of time. We know what his policy was – the unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan and while he didn’t live to see the ultimate end of the war, he certainly fought like hell for it.
And the fact that FDR had to work closely with Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin and came away from that moment in history seen as a global leader is a testament to his legacy.
Executive Skills/Congress
How do you not give him a 10 here? Sure, he rotated Vice Presidents like some do socks. And his “attack” on the Supreme Court was ultimately foolish and ill advised. But his first 100 days, the total reimagining of the American economy, the mobilization of war and everything in between shows him to be a leader. What Woodrow Wilson could only dream of power wise FDR accomplished.
Justice/Rights
But then we hit this part. His New Deal included better treatment for Indian issues. He failed to support anti-lynching bills in order to keep the south in his corner. His decree that the federal government would not discriminate in the hiring and awarded of defense contracts on the basis of race became the under pinnings of Title VII of the Civil Rights act decades later. His run for a third and then a fourth term was seen in some circles as the beginning of a republican king that had been feared since Washington. And there are still parts of the globe today that blame him for not fully understanding nor doing anything about the Holocaust. I argue these ultimately are small potatoes. The crisis’ that he dealt with were simply too big and complex and dwarf these issues in their moment.
Except his handling of Japanese people in America. Executive Order 9066 is the most grotesque federal policy and direct attack on civil liberties in this country’s history after the slavery years of the 19th century. Roger Taney himself couldn’t have come up with a more repulsive order. FDR’s creation of internment camps for peoples of Japanese ancestry on the West Coast is a vile reminder of the dangers our democracy faces whenever crisis is before us. The balance of safety and security is the most difficult and time honored problem our country faces in every era. War measures designed to protect America are always going to ultimately fall into the security camp a lot more than the freedom camp by their very nature. And we all know from recent history that we can go too far and have gone too far at times.
FDR went way too far. It was a war measure, seeing his birth from John Adams’ Alien and Sedition Acts, Lincoln’s suspension of Habeas Corpus and Wilson’s use of the media and military to attack anyone that disagreed with the war effort. He wasn’t breaking new ground. He was simply building a massively bigger hole to throw civil liberties into. America’s history deserves a massive hit on our honor for this act and FDR deserves to be hit for it, and hit hard.
Context
When he took office, American prosperity that gave rise to American exceptionalism was destroyed. Europe was in economic and eventually military chaos. FDR took the reigns of power in a way that no other President before him even dared, and ultimately led the nation and the world into a new beginning. He towers so far over his times that we barely remember the other leaders of the time save Churchill, Hitler and Stalin. The Great Depression, World War II, the 1930’s and the first half of the 1940’s are written in history through FDR’s eyes. The federal government was never going to be the same again. The military power of the United States was never going to be anything other than globally dominate again. And humanity was never going to be able to put extinction back in Pandora’s Box.
Conclusion
On persuasion FDR gets a 10, on crisis 10, on economy 8, on foreign policy 10, Congress 10, civil rights 2 and context 10. It will be argued that the civil rights score is too unfair. It’s not. There is a line between freedom and security that even when we cross we almost never lose complete sight of. FDR did. 60 total points is going to put him, deservedly so, in the top pantheon of our greatest Presidents. But his story is also one of warning to the American people – even our greatest leaders are going to falter and fail. The beauty of the system that Washington fought for with a gun, Adams fought for with words, and Lincoln fought for with steel determination is that even in those darkest times there is a mechanism, however weak at times, to fix such an awful wrong. We fixed FDR’s one true great failure, and we and the rest of the world have also enjoyed the result of his many great successes.
Public Acumen/Persuasion
We are now in the era of Presidents where anyone that is truly following this exercise knows enough about them that long paragraphs aren’t always going to be necessary. And there have been libraries of books written about every aspect of Franklin Roosevelt, his life, his presidency and his legacy. He is going to score in the top of the class whether anyone truly likes it or not.
How do you score a President who ran four times and won all 4 in convincing fashion? How do you score a president who lead the nation and ultimately the world through the worst global war in human history? How do you measure the persuasive power of a President who delivered what is remembered as one of the most powerful and important lines in American political history? You give him a 10. Even if you don’t like the guy. FDR did what no one before could do and only maybe 2 guys could after if the rules didn’t change. FDR took the lessons of Woodrow Wilson and the failures of Herbert Hoover and turned them into the most powerful presidential administration since Abraham Lincoln – war does that. But FDR was a towering figure that his political opponents simply couldn’t unseat. The only reason he wasn’t considered for a 5th term is that he died. FDR gets a perfect score here.
War & Crisis
We know about the Great Depression. FDR’s first term and his New Deal started a domestic policy campaign to attack the problem. By the end of his first term though the economy was still in bad shape. In his second term growing tensions in Europe began towering over even the depression. The second new deal round of policies began in earnest what everyone considers the New Deal. By the end of his second term, Germany’s Adolf Hitler was going to change the world.
You can’t argue that FDR didn’t attack the depression. He more interventionist into the American economy than any other president. Yet for all the intervention, many of the policies are and were conservative in nature. But by 1939, global war was the more important issue and it was the issue that finally broke the depression and turned around the American economy.
World War II was no unlike previous wars in many ways, especially as it relates to Germany, England, France, western Europe and even Russia. European history is full of such massive scale wars. On the heals of the end of World War I Europe was no stranger to full mobilization. But what makes World War II different is that it became the first war that humanity discovered the ability to destroy itself completely. And FDR led the charge for the weapons do it. Reviewing how he handled the war is a waste of time. The history is pretty set on that, save the continued stories about the possibilities that he knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen and/or wanted it to happen. Even if you were going to hit him for that the rest of the scoring here pulls his total back up.
Any ideal of America being isolationist ended with World War II and the entirety of global politics changed as a result. The world that FDR led in 1943 was a vastly different world by 1945 and the years that followed. But for his time in office, with the two most important issues of American history after the revolution and the civil war, FDR led the nation to ultimate victory over both.
Economy
You could argue that no President before FDR dealt with the economy so forcefully. If we listed the various policies, programs, government agencies and commissions that he formed to deal with the depression and then mobilization for war the list would take several pages. But we should be mindful that all of his policies directly attacking the depression did not end the economic crisis. The war did. And while FDR didn’t start the war, he certainly used it to reshape the American economy. He has to get top grades here as well because again if our basic fallback is whether or not the economy was better when he left office, there might not be a clearer definition of that change in any administration than his.
Foreign Policy
Another top grade here for FDR as well. Of course his foreign policy was World War II and his Latin America policy started under Hoover and then was controlled by events of the war anyway, but again, going through each and every issue here is a waste of time. We know what his policy was – the unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan and while he didn’t live to see the ultimate end of the war, he certainly fought like hell for it.
And the fact that FDR had to work closely with Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin and came away from that moment in history seen as a global leader is a testament to his legacy.
Executive Skills/Congress
How do you not give him a 10 here? Sure, he rotated Vice Presidents like some do socks. And his “attack” on the Supreme Court was ultimately foolish and ill advised. But his first 100 days, the total reimagining of the American economy, the mobilization of war and everything in between shows him to be a leader. What Woodrow Wilson could only dream of power wise FDR accomplished.
Justice/Rights
But then we hit this part. His New Deal included better treatment for Indian issues. He failed to support anti-lynching bills in order to keep the south in his corner. His decree that the federal government would not discriminate in the hiring and awarded of defense contracts on the basis of race became the under pinnings of Title VII of the Civil Rights act decades later. His run for a third and then a fourth term was seen in some circles as the beginning of a republican king that had been feared since Washington. And there are still parts of the globe today that blame him for not fully understanding nor doing anything about the Holocaust. I argue these ultimately are small potatoes. The crisis’ that he dealt with were simply too big and complex and dwarf these issues in their moment.
Except his handling of Japanese people in America. Executive Order 9066 is the most grotesque federal policy and direct attack on civil liberties in this country’s history after the slavery years of the 19th century. Roger Taney himself couldn’t have come up with a more repulsive order. FDR’s creation of internment camps for peoples of Japanese ancestry on the West Coast is a vile reminder of the dangers our democracy faces whenever crisis is before us. The balance of safety and security is the most difficult and time honored problem our country faces in every era. War measures designed to protect America are always going to ultimately fall into the security camp a lot more than the freedom camp by their very nature. And we all know from recent history that we can go too far and have gone too far at times.
FDR went way too far. It was a war measure, seeing his birth from John Adams’ Alien and Sedition Acts, Lincoln’s suspension of Habeas Corpus and Wilson’s use of the media and military to attack anyone that disagreed with the war effort. He wasn’t breaking new ground. He was simply building a massively bigger hole to throw civil liberties into. America’s history deserves a massive hit on our honor for this act and FDR deserves to be hit for it, and hit hard.
Context
When he took office, American prosperity that gave rise to American exceptionalism was destroyed. Europe was in economic and eventually military chaos. FDR took the reigns of power in a way that no other President before him even dared, and ultimately led the nation and the world into a new beginning. He towers so far over his times that we barely remember the other leaders of the time save Churchill, Hitler and Stalin. The Great Depression, World War II, the 1930’s and the first half of the 1940’s are written in history through FDR’s eyes. The federal government was never going to be the same again. The military power of the United States was never going to be anything other than globally dominate again. And humanity was never going to be able to put extinction back in Pandora’s Box.
Conclusion
On persuasion FDR gets a 10, on crisis 10, on economy 8, on foreign policy 10, Congress 10, civil rights 2 and context 10. It will be argued that the civil rights score is too unfair. It’s not. There is a line between freedom and security that even when we cross we almost never lose complete sight of. FDR did. 60 total points is going to put him, deservedly so, in the top pantheon of our greatest Presidents. But his story is also one of warning to the American people – even our greatest leaders are going to falter and fail. The beauty of the system that Washington fought for with a gun, Adams fought for with words, and Lincoln fought for with steel determination is that even in those darkest times there is a mechanism, however weak at times, to fix such an awful wrong. We fixed FDR’s one true great failure, and we and the rest of the world have also enjoyed the result of his many great successes.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
timschochet
Footballguy
75. Frank Lloyd Wright
Early in life I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose the former and have seen no reason to change.
Frank Lloyd Wright is generally regarded as our greatest architect, and one of the greatest architects of all time. He was a modernist, a believer in "organic architecture",
(designing structures in harmony with humanity and the environment.) As I mentioned, Lloyd Wright was the basis for Howard Roark, the protagonist of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, though the similarity ends with the style of the artist- their personal stories, and philosophy of life, were totally different.
Lloyd Wright is somewhat of a unique figure on this list- despite his large influence on architecture, he's not nearly as influential on American life as many others that have been or will be named here. In terms of his overall "greatness", it's hard to measure building design as opposed to other great artists, inventors, businessmen, political statesmen, etc. Yet I believe there is no question that he belongs. He is arguably our most brilliant artist, period. Rather than continue to describe his achievements, I'd rather link to a few of his most famous:
Fallingwater (1935)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallingwater#/media/File:Fallingwater_-_DSC05639.JPG
The Walter Gale House (1893)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lloyd_Wright#/media/File:Oak_Park_Il_Walter_Gale_House4.jpg
The William H. Winslow House (1893)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lloyd_Wright#/media/File:William_H._Winslow_House_Front_Facade.jpg
The Guggenheim Museum (1959)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lloyd_Wright#/media/File:Guggenheim_museum_exterior.jpg
Next up: the Supreme Court Justice that I ranked higher than John Marshall...
Early in life I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose the former and have seen no reason to change.
Frank Lloyd Wright is generally regarded as our greatest architect, and one of the greatest architects of all time. He was a modernist, a believer in "organic architecture",
(designing structures in harmony with humanity and the environment.) As I mentioned, Lloyd Wright was the basis for Howard Roark, the protagonist of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, though the similarity ends with the style of the artist- their personal stories, and philosophy of life, were totally different.
Lloyd Wright is somewhat of a unique figure on this list- despite his large influence on architecture, he's not nearly as influential on American life as many others that have been or will be named here. In terms of his overall "greatness", it's hard to measure building design as opposed to other great artists, inventors, businessmen, political statesmen, etc. Yet I believe there is no question that he belongs. He is arguably our most brilliant artist, period. Rather than continue to describe his achievements, I'd rather link to a few of his most famous:
Fallingwater (1935)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallingwater#/media/File:Fallingwater_-_DSC05639.JPG
The Walter Gale House (1893)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lloyd_Wright#/media/File:Oak_Park_Il_Walter_Gale_House4.jpg
The William H. Winslow House (1893)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lloyd_Wright#/media/File:William_H._Winslow_House_Front_Facade.jpg
The Guggenheim Museum (1959)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lloyd_Wright#/media/File:Guggenheim_museum_exterior.jpg
Next up: the Supreme Court Justice that I ranked higher than John Marshall...
dparker713
Footballguy
Can we get a recap to this point tim, you're a quarter of the way through
timschochet
Footballguy
Sure.
100. Billie Jean King
99. John Brown
98. Joseph R. McCarthy
97. Eli Whitney
96. Huey Long
95. George Gershwin
94. Billy Graham
93. Madonna
92. John L. Lewis
91. Rachel Carson
90. Marilyn Monroe
89. Ray Kroc
88. Brigham Young
87. John Marshall
86. Howard Hughes
85. Clarence Darrow
84. Andrew Carnegie
83. Jim Thorpe
82. John Wayne
81. Stonewall Jackson
80. Dr. Seuss
79. Winfield Scott
78. Harriet Beecher Stowe
77. Oprah Winfrey
76. Gregory Pincus
75. Frank Lloyd Wright
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