Tom Brady MVP? (1 Viewer)

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

I am a big fan of both Qbs and haven't rooted for either of their teams to win since Brady Qb'd my Wolverines. If I had to pick who I've rooted for the most out of these two in their history of battles against each other, probably Manning. I'd say mostly for me because Manning played for a slightly lesser team IMO early on in his career compared to a more well rounded Patriot team.So with that said, we do this to often, take 1 game and try to use it as evidence to prove a career's worth of playing.

Joe Montana was not the same QB in Kansas City, he was OK, probably even good but hardly the greatest of all time. Tom Brady isn't washed up, but he's not in his prime either. Regardless of what he does for the rest of his career, you cannot take away from what he's earned as a NFL QB or how great he was when he was doing it.

The truth is neither Manning nor Brady will go down as The Greatest. They may be your greatest and favorite, and that is OK, but they've both lost too many SBs to clearly be labeled The Greatest of all time. They will be called two of the greatest and the two greatest in their era and again that is OK, in fact it's pretty awesome.

I can remember hating Larry Bird as a huge Pistons fan back when The Bad Boys couldn't get past them, just prior to the Jordan days. Anyway, I spent so much energy complaining of him, that I never truly enjoyed him for his greatness until it was too late, when he retired from the game and I realized the game was much better with him in it than without him.

It won't be long, a blink of an eye and these two Qbs that so many of us love to tear down will be gone. Do yourself a favor and try to enjoy what these two special players bring to the table these next couple of years, they won't be around forever.

 

[T with T]

yea all them championships he earned from being on a cheating organization.. Your right you can't forget that....He is an avg qb in a great system and it's finally showing now that he doesn't have his weapons no moss, no welker, no hernandez.... He's not that special brady jock lovers..... MVP, ha that's a joke in itself, and thread should be banned on that total nonsense.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

yea all them championships he earned from being on a cheating organization.. Your right you can't forget that....He is an avg qb in a great system and it's finally showing now that he doesn't have his weapons no moss, no welker, no hernandez.... He's not that special brady jock lovers..... MVP, ha that's a joke in itself, and thread should be banned on that total nonsense.

How do you ban a thread? So much hate.

 

[lbouchard]

It won't be long, a blink of an eye and these two Qbs that so many of us love to tear down will be gone. Do yourself a favor and try to enjoy what these two special players bring to the table these next couple of years, they won't be around forever.

I posted something like this earlier in the thread. These guys are two of the top 5 QBs of all time. We should enjoy them while they're still playing.

 

[Faust]

For Halloween Tom Brady is the Cowardly Lion, Gisele is Dorothy

 

[Adam Harstad]

For Halloween Tom Brady is the Cowardly Lion, Gisele is Dorothy

Don't ever change, Faust.

 

[Faust]

For Halloween Tom Brady is the Cowardly Lion, Gisele is Dorothy

Don't ever change, Faust.

 

[Zow]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

I am a big fan of both Qbs and haven't rooted for either of their teams to win since Brady Qb'd my Wolverines. If I had to pick who I've rooted for the most out of these two in their history of battles against each other, probably Manning. I'd say mostly for me because Manning played for a slightly lesser team IMO early on in his career compared to a more well rounded Patriot team.So with that said, we do this to often, take 1 game and try to use it as evidence to prove a career's worth of playing.

Joe Montana was not the same QB in Kansas City, he was OK, probably even good but hardly the greatest of all time. Tom Brady isn't washed up, but he's not in his prime either. Regardless of what he does for the rest of his career, you cannot take away from what he's earned as a NFL QB or how great he was when he was doing it.

The truth is neither Manning nor Brady will go down as The Greatest. They may be your greatest and favorite, and that is OK, but they've both lost too many SBs to clearly be labeled The Greatest of all time. They will be called two of the greatest and the two greatest in their era and again that is OK, in fact it's pretty awesome.

I can remember hating Larry Bird as a huge Pistons fan back when The Bad Boys couldn't get past them, just prior to the Jordan days. Anyway, I spent so much energy complaining of him, that I never truly enjoyed him for his greatness until it was too late, when he retired from the game and I realized the game was much better with him in it than without him.

It won't be long, a blink of an eye and these two Qbs that so many of us love to tear down will be gone. Do yourself a favor and try to enjoy what these two special players bring to the table these next couple of years, they won't be around forever.

I don't think that's the truth.

 

[Zow]

yea all them championships he earned from being on a cheating organization.. Your right you can't forget that....He is an avg qb in a great system and it's finally showing now that he doesn't have his weapons no moss, no welker, no hernandez.... He's not that special brady jock lovers..... MVP, ha that's a joke in itself, and thread should be banned on that total nonsense.

How do you ban a thread? So much hate.

Now, imagine Brady is George Zimmerman

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

HIYOOOOO

 

[drummer]

Bump for Nick Foles

 

[msudaisy26]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

He was. Now he isn't.

Exactly, they are both great quarterbacks this year Manning is a lot better then Brady, but ask Manning or any other quarterback if they would rather have Bradys career or Mannings career I bet most if not all would say I would take either but give me Brady over Manning. cvnpoka has trouble seeing the difference between fantasy football and real football.

 

[moleculo]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

He was. Now he isn't.

Exactly, they are both great quarterbacks this year Manning is a lot better then Brady, but ask Manning or any other quarterback if they would rather have Bradys career or Mannings career I bet most if not all would say I would take either but give me Brady over Manning. cvnpoka has trouble seeing the difference between fantasy football and real football.

by "career", you mean "surrounded with a great defense and a competent kicker", right?

 

[msudaisy26]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

He was. Now he isn't.

Exactly, they are both great quarterbacks this year Manning is a lot better then Brady, but ask Manning or any other quarterback if they would rather have Bradys career or Mannings career I bet most if not all would say I would take either but give me Brady over Manning. cvnpoka has trouble seeing the difference between fantasy football and real football.

by "career", you mean "surrounded with a great defense and a competent kicker", right?

I am sure Brady would have loved to have Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark for his first 6 years instead of Reche Caudwell, Deion Branch, David Patton, David Givens, Daniel Graham, and Ben Watson.

Seriously, we could do this back and forth all day. They are both great quarterbacks on different teams, but the fact is to this point Brady has won more titles, and has a better winning percentage in the regular season. Since most NFL quarterbacks play to win I have a feeling they would pick Brady over Manning but would take either one.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Understanding the NFL salary cap is hard.

 

[SacramentoBob]

HIYOOOOO

He's the Carolina MVP right now.

 

[drummer]

This really belongs to Geno Smith

 

[Ghost Rider]

Brady has moved up to 18th in passer rating and 16th in QBR this year. MVP!!!!

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Bump for tonight!

 

[drummer]

Bump for tonight!

 

[Dr Oadi]

Bump for tonight!

 

[General Tso]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

He was. Now he isn't.

My favorite post from this thread. LOL

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Looks like Peyton can't handle the cold, only a warm-weather MVP candidate.

 

[drummer]

 

[Run It Up]

Courtesy bump

 

[ffldrew]

Courtesy bump

Missed Tom out there getting the ball after it hit Carter

 

[Run It Up]

Courtesy bump

Missed Tom out there getting the ball after it hit Carter

You see when Brady got stripped for the 2nd of 3 fumbles lost?

Or how about the 28 unanswered points?

 

[moleculo]

if Brady and Manning had played like that in the previous 10 games, I'd agree that Brady would be an MVP candidate.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

if Brady and Manning had played like that in the previous 10 games, I'd agree that Brady would be an MVP candidate.

TRANSLATION: Manning is lucky he doesn't have to play against a Patriots defense each week.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Brady has moved up to 18th in passer rating and 16th in QBR this year. MVP!!!!

Update? How much did Manning's 70.4 qbr hurt his rankings???

QBR is a pretty ####ty stat anyway.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Brady has moved up to 18th in passer rating and 16th in QBR this year. MVP!!!!

Update? How much did Manning's 70.4 qbr hurt his rankings???

QBR is a pretty ####ty stat anyway.

I'll let you know when ESPN updates the rankings.

 

[moleculo]

if Brady and Manning had played like that in the previous 10 games, I'd agree that Brady would be an MVP candidate.

TRANSLATION: Manning is lucky he doesn't have to play against a Patriots defense each week.

ALTERNATE TRANSLATION: Brady is unlucky that he has to go on the road sometimes.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Brady >>> Manning

 

[msudaisy26]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

He was. Now he isn't.

My favorite post from this thread. LOL

Mine too, translation Manning has won me more money playing fantasy football, so he is the better quarterback.

 

[Raider Nation]

Looks like he just needed to get his weapons back. Go figure.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Brady has moved up to 18th in passer rating and 16th in QBR this year. MVP!!!!

Update? How much did Manning's 70.4 qbr hurt his rankings???

QBR is a pretty ####ty stat anyway.

I'll let you know when ESPN updates the rankings.

Manning is now 2nd in QBR, behind Josh McCown. Still at 79.4.

Brady is still 16th at 58.2.

Manning and Brady now both have the same number of interceptions (7), but Peyton has thrown 19 more touchdown passes (36-17).

Manning having the Broncos at 9-2 despite having the 27th ranked defense is almost as impressive as when Aaron Rodgers got the Packers to 15-1 two years ago with the worst defense in the league.

 

[Faust]

Patriots' secret weapon: 'Cougar! Cougar! Linda!'

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think he's a candidate now.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I think he's a candidate now.

It's probably too little too late, but if he puts up crazy numbers this last month it could get interesting.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think he's a candidate now.

It's probably too little too late, but if he puts up crazy numbers this last month it could get interesting.

I don't think he'll get it, but I think his recent play puts his poor numbers in the past in context. There were some gays where he definitely did not play well, but the fact that he starts to pick it up right when all these guys come back is not exactly a coincidence, so to some extent, it gives him a pass for his previous performances. It's an easy, maybe even lazy, narrative: "Brady struggled, carried this team on his back to a 7-2 record, and now that he's got his guys back, he's playing better than anyone in the league." Etc.Meanwhile Manning is doing the NFL equivalent to driving around a top end sports car.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I think he's a candidate now.

It's probably too little too late, but if he puts up crazy numbers this last month it could get interesting.

I don't think he'll get it, but I think his recent play puts his poor numbers in the past in context. There were some gays where he definitely did not play well, but the fact that he starts to pick it up right when all these guys come back is not exactly a coincidence, so to some extent, it gives him a pass for his previous performances. It's an easy, maybe even lazy, narrative: "Brady struggled, carried this team on his back to a 7-2 record, and now that he's got his guys back, he's playing better than anyone in the league." Etc.Meanwhile Manning is doing the NFL equivalent to driving around a top end sports car.

It's not maybe lazy, it's definitely lazy.

 

[moleculo]

If Manning has more games like he did the past couple games andif Brady has more games like he did on Sunday, andif NE ends up with the #1 seed, he probably deserves it.

If Broncos win out and keep the #1 seed andif Manning ends up with >45 TD passes, it's Mannings without a doubt.

 

[Run It Up]

If the Broncos, Chiefs and Patriots all finish 13-3 what would the Pats have to do to take the #1 seed? Would the Pats not automatically win it since the Broncos have a better division record than the Chiefs and the Pats beat the Broncos?

Think the Broncos could lose to the Chiefs or Chargers potentially, unlikely.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If Manning has more games like he did the past couple games andif Brady has more games like he did on Sunday, andif NE ends up with the #1 seed, he probably deserves it.

If Broncos win out and keep the #1 seed andif Manning ends up with >45 TD passes, it's Mannings without a doubt.

I don't know, man. You could argue that this past weekend show how valuable Manning is to the Broncos, since they got a great running game and a bunch of turnovers and still couldn't win. The Broncos need Manning to play great to win. The Patriots have shown that they can win games this year even if Brady doesn't play well (see: the Jets and Dolphins games). That alone makes Manning far more valuable, even his far better numbers notwithstanding.

 

[Run It Up]

I don't know, man.

Whats not to know, he just wins games.

If Tebow has anything going for him its his Manningesque ability to just win games, despite all odds.

Its not like anyone could just go and put up those kinds of numbers with the best receiving corp in all of football.

 

[Bobtender]

its pretty amazing how people actually argued he was better than manning.

He was. Now he isn't.

Exactly, they are both great quarterbacks this year Manning is a lot better then Brady, but ask Manning or any other quarterback if they would rather have Bradys career or Mannings career I bet most if not all would say I would take either but give me Brady over Manning. cvnpoka has trouble seeing the difference between fantasy football and real football.

by "career", you mean "surrounded with a great defense and a competent kicker", right?

As far as the MVP question... I think it will come down to who gets the #1 seed.

The who is better debate... see below bolded. END OF DISCUSSION!!!

I am sure Brady would have loved to have Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark for his first 6 years instead of Reche Caudwell, Deion Branch, David Patton, David Givens, Daniel Graham, and Ben Watson.

Seriously, we could do this back and forth all day. They are both great quarterbacks on different teams, but the fact is to this point Brady has won more titles, and has a better winning percentage in the regular season. Since most NFL quarterbacks play to win I have a feeling they would pick Brady over Manning but would take either one.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

The only ones comparing WR's are the Brady nuthuggers. The only ridiculous claims being made are those clinging to the Patriot dropped passes, while ignoring the simple fact that other teams have had dropped passes too, including Manning.

Ok Brady-hater, keep thinking that the level of experience of the WR's on these teams means nothing, using NFL rankings which is based on yardage I believe:

Total Points (Rush TD / Rec TD / Ret TD / Def TD)

Broncos 6-0 [1st in total offense; 1st in passing; 15th in rushing; 31% Opp Win-PCT; 29th in Total Defense; 1st in Total Points (9/22/2/1)]

Chiefs 6-0 [25th in total offense; 26th in passing; 12th in rushing; 31% Opp Win-PCT; 5th in Total Defense; t7th in Total Points (5/7/1/4)]

Seahawks 6-1 (lost to the Colts) [11th in total offense; 24th in passing; 2nd in rushing; 43% Opp Win-PCT; 2nd in Total Defense; t3rd in Total Points (7/12/0/1)]

Patriots 5-1 (lost to Bengals, beat the Saints - the only common top 5 team opponent) [14th in total offense; 19th in passing; 11th in rushing; 44% Opp Win-PCT; 14th in Total Defense; t27th in Total Points (3/8/0/0)]

Saints 5-1 (lost to the Patriots) [5th in total offense; 3rd in passing; 23rd in rushing; 47% Opp Win-PCT; 12th in Total Defense; t7th in Total Points (3/14/0/0)]

Aside from the Saints (who lost to the Pats), the Pats have had the toughest schedule thus far.

Aside from the Broncos, Pats have the lowest ranked Total Defense.

Aside from the Saints, the Pats have scored the highest % of their TD's through the air (73%) even with Brady throwing to a slew of rookie receivers.

I look forward to bumping this thread on November 24th after the Pats beat the Broncos.

Also all of the above is BG (before-Gronk), I suspect Brady's numbers improve significantly AG (after-Gronk)

Brady BG stats:

YARDS: 1480 [r-17]

YDS/G: 247 [r-19]

YDS/A: 6.19 [r-30]

TD/A: .0335 [r-23]

INT/A: .0167 [r-t9]

RATE: 79.5 [r-23]

COMP%: 56.9 [r-27]

Bump time.

So above are the stats for Brady's 6 games without Gronk, now we are at the 5 game mark with Gronk playing, stats for the past 5 games with Gronk.

Brady AG stats:

YARDS: 1416

YDS/G: 283.2 [r-6]

YDS/A: 7.41 [r-8]

TD/A: .0471 [r-10]

INT/A: .0157 [r-2]

RATE: 94.9 [r-7]

COMP%: 63.4 [r-9]

ratings are based on full season (compared against current QB's with at least 2000 yards passing this season - I believe Kaepernick's 2037 yards is the cutoff for starting QB with fewest passing yards that has played entire season). I did not rate yards since it was cumulative for past 5 weeks and the Y/G stat should suffice.

Before Gronk: Brady's only stat in the top 10 was INT/A, most of his stats hovered around 20th in rank

After Gronk: Every single stat recorded above is in the top 10

The point of all this? Quality of receivers means everything to QB stats, there may have been other factors but when you upgrade the weapons at his disposal you elevate his game and what he can accomplish.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The point of all this? Quality of receivers means everything to QB stats, there may have been other factors but when you upgrade the weapons at his disposal you elevate his game and what he can accomplish.

Actually it seems like the point you're making is that the Patriots offense was really bad without Gronk, but good with Gronk. That seems to be more an argument for Gronk for MVP than Brady.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

The point of all this? Quality of receivers means everything to QB stats, there may have been other factors but when you upgrade the weapons at his disposal you elevate his game and what he can accomplish.

Actually it seems like the point you're making is that the Patriots offense was really bad without Gronk, but good with Gronk. That seems to be more an argument for Gronk for MVP than Brady.

receivers plural, you fail again

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The point of all this? Quality of receivers means everything to QB stats, there may have been other factors but when you upgrade the weapons at his disposal you elevate his game and what he can accomplish.

Actually it seems like the point you're making is that the Patriots offense was really bad without Gronk, but good with Gronk. That seems to be more an argument for Gronk for MVP than Brady.

receivers plural, you fail again

Who are all these other receivers? Amendola? Because Amendola played 3 games without Gronk and Brady's QB Rating in those games was 68.

Gronk for MVP.