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You could see it in the NFC Championship game. That one play where McNabb was literally in the clutches three times but evades the sack and makes the first down throw to Todd Pinkston versus Vick getting chased and backpedaling for any number of those very deep sacks.
Vick played for only two years in college, but he led his team to a 20-1 regular season record as a starter, and took them to the National Championship game as a freshman.His freshman year, he completed 59% of his passes, had a 12-5 TD-INT ratio, led the nation in passing efficiency, and averaged over 12 yards per pass attempt. For his college career, he completed 56% of his passes and averaged 9.88 yards per attempt. (For the sake of comparison, Peyton Manning averaged 9.17 yards per attempt this season.)
No offense intended, but wtf cares what he did in college? Ron Dayne was a great college player, Charlie Ward was a very good college QB, those are just 2 examples of players that did very well in college that haven't showed anything outside. Ward never even played a snap, although he was a decent point guard.
You win as a team and you lose as a team, but it should've been obvious to everyone going into this game that the Eagles were going to force Vick to beat them through the air. He was going to be the key guy. The Eagles were determined to make the ultimate X factor step up and beat them the way all good (or "great" as Vick is so often hyped to be) QBs should be able to do -- by making plays through the air. That was a fool-proof strategy because Vick simply isn't talented enough as a passer at this point in time to beat that strategy. And again, if the Eagles could fluster Daunte Culpepper (who's a far superior passer to Vick and also has tremendous running ability), shutting down Vick was going to be child's play for the Philly D. The only chance Atlanta had to win this game was if Vick proved he could be a quality passer. Unfortunately for the Falcons, he's far away from that level of production so Atlanta was doomed to defeat.
Based on what?Pro Bowls? NOPlayoff Success? NOStatistical Achievement? NODivision Titles? NONFC Titles? NOPlease illuminate those of us who don't see the Vick > McNabb comparison?
I think Maurile (and Hunterbeer) before are just refuting one specific claim against Vick, which is that he was a subpar passer in college (from Wood).In fact, he was an infrequent but effective passer in college.As a pro QB, he created about 3200 combined yards and 20(?) TDs for his team. Those strike me as a bit low, but I'm guessing his limited passing attempts kept the Falcons TOs down as well. I do think his propensity to get sacked (a constant in every season as a pro for him) puts his team in far too many long yardage situations, reducing the effectiveness of that rushing game somewhat.
I won't dispute your statement, but can you please provide the stats your looking at when you come to that conclusion?
VERY
Oops. If I had seen Hunterbeer's post, I wouldn't have made mine.
He also led the league in fumbles. One other thing I've noticed about Vick is that he has awful pocket awareness. Granted that is something that often takes time for QBs to master, but that's another area of his game I didn't see improve this season. If he's not looking to run at the first hint of trouble he's standing in the pocket too long and getting sacked which with his penchant for fumbling is a serious problem.
No offense, but who cares about Ron Dayne?
I didn't even bother to check his fumbles lost. If it put his TOs above 20, then he almost certainly produced as a below average NFL QB this year.Which is not to say that he won't eventually be better. I'll be honest and say that I didn't think McNabb would get this good. After his first "good" year, I still thought his YPA showed a QB doing it with mirrors.McNabb got good. Maybe Vick will too, but how has he really done anything much different than Shaun King did (disclaimer alert, I still think King got a bit of a raw deal).
Upon further review, I'll concede that statistically Vick isn't "far ahead" of McNabb at the same point. They're almost EXACTLY the same player, both statistically, and in their ability to lead their teams deep into the playoffs. McNabb's passing numbers in Reid's offense are higher than Vick's at this point, but Vick's rushing numbers dwarf McNabb's at the same point.Probably the biggest difference b/w the two when comparing their careers is the advantage McNabb had in running a pro-style offense at Syracuse for 4 years. When you consider that Vick is putting up similar numbers and wins with far less experience, and Vick's superior physical tools, it's difficult to understand a Philly fan being down on Vick at this point.
Getting a "hefty contract" has a lot less to do with performance and a lot more to do with selling Tickets and jerseys. Football is a business, and Vick SELLS.
That may be true, but comparing the offensive system Vick ran at VaTech to the pro game is no more fruitful than projecting how run'n'shoot passers like Timmy Chang, David Klingler, Kliff Kingsbury, et al...will succeed in the pro ranks. A good many of the all-time NCAA passing record holders have had (or are having) limited NFL success for various reasons, not the least of which is their system was extremely effective in college, but ineffective in the pros.There wasn't a NFL scout in the world that didn't acknowledge Vick's limitations as a passer coming out of VaTech. Concepts like three- and five-step drops, plant/step/throw, making progressions, checking off, recognizing defenses are all things he is vastly less prepared than the typical QB which gets handed the reins of an NFL offense.
If you think Vick will improve as a passer or doesn't need to than it makes sense to argue he should stay a QB. I don't see it...so I'm saying they need to find ways to get the ball in Vicks hands but still keep defenses honest with a passer and I think Schaub can be that guy. I think it's crazy to say Vick can only be effective as a QB.
True, but that doesn't make him a great player. I still think he needs to work a lot on his passing game. Bringing in a legitimate Wr1 wouldn't hurt either, as Peerless Price is a marginal NO.2.
I hate how everyone uses the excuse that the Falcon's were TERRIBLE last year w/o Vick. All those home games that they lost last year w/o Vick... they were winning ALL of them at half time, and would find a way to lose in the 2nd half. His running ability makes them just a little bit better enough to barely beat teams.This year's cupcake schedule, a decent D, a very good TE, and an obscure 3 headed running game got them to the NFC Championship game. Out of 16 games this season, they only beat 3 teams above .500 and the only impressive win they had this year, was when they won at Denver.I have season tickets, and their home games next year are a LOT more brutal.'04: Cardinals, Lions, Chargers, Raiders, Rams'05: Vikings, Packers, Patriots, Eagles, JetsIf Vick doesn't step it up next year and if the Falcon's don't improve the passing game in the offseason, they will NOT make the playoffs next year.I like Vick and what he's done to help this team. The Vick hype and hearing they are a one man show is what makes me sick. Once they upgrade the O-line, and get some kind of WR help, then he has no excuses but to improve as a passer. Not sure where they will stand w/ their salary cap, but I think they have a lot of money tied up w/ Useless Price.
Having marginal WRs and only an elite TE you could trust in the passing game didn't seem to bother Trent Green last season. Or the year before that. Or the year before that. And that's just one example of a QB who was able to produce in the passing game despite having less-than-stellar WRs. I've listed several others. The "Price factor" should not be ignored because Price clearly is a joke as a No. 1 WR. But Vick has far more problems as a passer than just the lack of a solid go-to WR. Far more.
Kennison was a dog for most of his career. Yes he's a deep threat, but most of his career has been spent severly under-achieving. In terms of pure WR talent, I don't think he's as talented as Price. He's simply playing with a good QB in Green who is more than capable of elevating the level of talent at the WR position. That is something I've yet to see from Vick.And the fact remains that why Price clearly is miscast as a No. 1 WR, I don't know anybody who could make plays given the numerous horrendous throws Vick makes when trying to throw the ball downfield.
He wasn't near as good as his "legend" would have you believe. He completed only 52% of his passes, threw for only 117 yards and just 1 TD. He did rush for 64 yards. Yes he won the game, but it was hardly a superstar performance or anything close.The Packers lost because they completely self-destructed. Turnovers and a blocked punt in particular eliminated any chances of winning that game. It wasn't Vick.
I love how Eddie Kennison, a guy that literally quit on the Broncos and then, upon trying to come back, was voted against by his own teammates, is now being used as the difference between why Trent Green can mastermind that passing attack versus Vick's own struggles with Price.Peerless Price all things being equal is, at a minimum, as capable on the football field as Eddie Kennison.
read joffers post as starterIn his 2nd and 4th seasons.Not his 1st and 2nd. There's a big difference.In his first season as starter, he won a wild card game & lost in divisional playoffs.
In his second season as starter, he won divisional game & lost in NFC Championship game. He lead them to the playoffs twice to a franchise with a long history of losing, find something/someone else to complain about.
He was hurt only 1 year out of the 4 years, his first year he didn't start but only a handful of games as rookie.Also, I remember reading a nfl statistic site for Wide Receivers. Peerless Price statistically had the lowest percentage of catches caught thrown to him at catching under 40% of passes thrown to him. Now people can say that was Vick, but Vick's other WR's such as Finneran, Dez White caught over 60% of their passes & Crumpler was in the 70% range. Now if Price even resembled a #1 and caught 65% or more of the passes, Vick's completion percentage would've been just around 60% not to mention increase of yardage. Really need a playmaker WR to help Vick's development in pocket passing, as this will help Vick not try to run at the first sign of danger. Vick only trusts Crumpler & no one else.
He's been hurt every year since becoming the starter. As a starter, he's failed to make it through a full season without missing at least one game.
Thats because he is the only person he sees, 2 seconds after a snap he is off and running. Face it, the guy is not a good QB.
Uh No, Crumpler is usually his 3rd read. He is off & running 2 seconds later because after 1 second pressure is in his face & his 1st / 2nd reads PRICE aren't getting open.
First year as starter he missed the giants game in the middle of the season. He could've played but Dan Reeves decided to sit him. Last year, hurt in preseason broke his leg while in the pocket. This year he could've played the Saints game but we already were locked at #2.
I would not be too sure about that. Vick is a below average passer. At times the Eagles hardly rushed..just held their lanes and Vick was baffled. They forced Vicks weakness..which is throwing the football without the fear of a run. Great scheme!
