Truth And Facts (2 Viewers)

[Henry Ford]

Who says what deserves some sort of respect?

Everyone. Every day.  In every conversation.  

All people are deserving of respect.  Not all ideas or opinions are deserving of respect 

 

[tonydead]

. This thread is awesome. 

 

[Dickies]

You know for a fact a few thousand votes have never been affected by fraud?

If you think someone saying they don't know for sure significant voter fraud was happening "is just as bad as saying that 2+2=5", I truly don't know what to tell you. We'll just have to strongly disagree and move on. 

This is a flat-earther argument. There have been investigations into voter fraud and nothing significant has ever been found. That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening, but all evidence points to it not happening with any significance. Then to expand it from a few hundred votes affected to 3 million is ludicrous. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm all for civility, but what if our fellow citizens express contemptible views?

- Tom Nichols.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm all for civility, but what if our fellow citizens express contemptible views?

- Tom Nichols.

Thanks for posting. I thought that was a fair look at it. Clearly there is some line when contempt is the right thing. But it's pretty far out there. And the author suggests the primary focus should be on the one thing you can change - yourself. I agree completely. 

Finished strongly with:

But there have been moments when I have not only felt contempt but believed that it was more than appropriate, and necessary, to express it. Moore's Senate candidacy was one of them.

Perhaps the real question is not how, or whether, we should express contempt, but rather whether we ourselves hold views that are contemptible. We all have the right to an opinion; we do not have the right to insist that others accept our opinions with kindness and good cheer.

The Emperor Aurelius warned us about judging each other. But he also warned us to be worthy of each other’s company: “Will any man despise me? Let him see to it. But I will see to it that I may not be found doing or saying anything that deserves to be despised.”

Good advice, even 2,000 years later.

 

[Ranethe]

Thanks for posting. I thought that was a fair look at it. Clearly there is some line when contempt is the right thing. But it's pretty far out there. And the author suggests the primary focus should be on the one thing you can change - yourself. I agree completely. 

Finished strongly with:

This seems to be a 180 from your recent posts on the subject of contempt. And “pretty far out there” means different things for different people. There seems to be at least some coalescing of consensus that the line was crossed some time ago.  How “far” out does the line have to be pushed? And when is that line not even visible any more because we’ve all been desensitized to it’s existence?

 

[jon_mx]

This echo chamber in this forum displays contempt towards me quite often and uses the 'denier','flat-earther', or 'wrong_mx' terms to belittle me as a person.  In some cases they are clearly opinion which lack an absolute right or wrong answer.  In many if not even most of the other times, my so-called 'flat-earth' arguments turn out to be correct or are actually facts.  Not that I have not made incorrect statements, but many of the know-it-all posters just assume I am wrong without any clue just because someone disputes and they want to jump on the bandwagon of bashing me.  It is almost comical in a sad way to witness people being so arrogant and ignorant at the same time out a spite towards a person/viewpoint.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This seems to be a 180 from your recent posts on the subject of contempt. And “pretty far out there” means different things for different people. There seems to be at least some coalescing of consensus that the line was crossed some time ago.  How “far” out does the line have to be pushed? And when is that line not even visible any more because we’ve all been desensitized to it’s existence?

That's a fair point. I don't think it's feasible to say there can never be contempt. I think for me, it's that we've moved the line for things we can hold others in contempt for way closer to things that don't merit that kind of emotion. I see people with contempt over others who want to ban plastic straws. In my mind, that's way more something we can disagree on and not rise to the level of the person with a different opinion being worthless.

Like lots of things, it's not a clear cut line. And it's different for different people. It does just seem in a general sense, we've moved way more towards contempt than I think is good. 

 

[sho nuff]

This echo chamber in this forum displays contempt towards me quite often and uses the 'denier','flat-earther', or 'wrong_mx' terms to belittle me as a person.  In some cases they are clearly opinion which lack an absolute right or wrong answer.  In many if not even most of the other times, my so-called 'flat-earth' arguments turn out to be correct or are actually facts.  Not that I have not made incorrect statements, but many of the know-it-all posters just assume I am wrong without any clue just because someone disputes and they want to jump on the bandwagon of bashing me.  It is almost comical in a sad way to witness people being so arrogant and ignorant at the same time out a spite towards a person/viewpoint.

With no provocation you post this...

 

[Joe Bryant]

This echo chamber in this forum displays contempt towards me quite often and uses the 'denier','flat-earther', or 'wrong_mx' terms to belittle me as a person.  In some cases they are clearly opinion which lack an absolute right or wrong answer.  In many if not even most of the other times, my so-called 'flat-earth' arguments are not only correct but are actually facts.  Not that I have not made incorrect statements, but many of the know-it-all posters just assume I am wrong without any clue just because someone disputes and they want to jump on the bandwagon of bashing me.  It is almost comical in a sad way to witness people being so arrogant and ignorant at the same time out a spite towards a person/viewpoint.

Interesting. I too have noticed how quick people are to go with someone they disagree with as making a flat earth argument. It seems that's the latest darling zinger. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

With no provocation you post this...

We are talking about contempt. This seemed entirely in line with the conversation. Maybe try not to contend every post?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Everyone. Every day.  In every conversation.  

All people are deserving of respect.  Not all ideas or opinions are deserving of respect 

That's a big point too. I don't believe people are their opinions. I think they're more than that. 

 

[sho nuff]

We are talking about contempt. This seemed entirely in line with the conversation. Maybe try not to contend every post?

I don’t believe I do contend every post.  But I found the post interesting as it showed contempt for large groups of people as well.  I don’t think contempt comes unprovoked most times.  And sorry I didn’t quite follow that we had moved on to contempt again at the time.

 

[jon_mx]

I don’t believe I do contend every post.  But I found the post interesting as it showed contempt for large groups of people as well.  I don’t think contempt comes unprovoked most times.

Let me give you one example to illustrate.  Someone was making a point about fossil fuels being a finite resource, I simply pointed out that solar and wind were also finite resources, which I was mocked for by numerous posters.   They in fact were/are ignorant (note I did not say stupid as that would be contempt) of what infinite really means.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Let me give you one example to illustrate.  Someone was making a point about fossil fuels being a finite resource, I simply pointed out that solar and wind were also finite resources, which I was mocked for by numerous posters.   They in fact were/are ignorant (note I did not say stupid as that would be contempt) of what infinite really means.  

Post something that questions vaccines or is against the government mandating drugging babies with vaccines and see what you get called.

 

[Dedfin]

I said respect but didn't say respect? Ok. 

In case you weren't trolling me, can you let me know if people can just make things up out of whole cloth and it's up to the one that disagrees to do their research disproving it? Thanks Joe.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Post something that questions vaccines or is against the government mandating drugging babies with vaccines and see what you get called.

That's probably a fair point too in that the degree of emotion seems tied to how it affects not just the person doing the thing, but those around them. 

Vaccines and immunization obviously affect more than just the person getting the vaccine. It puts other people at risk as we're seeing with measels and such. It would make sense that people would be more emotionally invested. I'd guess that principle would apply to other issues as well. 

 

[tonydead]

I don’t believe I do contend every post.  But I found the post interesting as it showed contempt for large groups of people as well.  I don’t think contempt comes unprovoked most times.  And sorry I didn’t quite follow that we had moved on to contempt again at the time.

Again?  Every damn time I open a thread in this forum you're being chastised for doing this.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

That's probably a fair point too in that the degree of emotion seems tied to how it affects not just the person doing the thing, but those around them. 

Vaccines and immunization obviously affect more than just the person getting the vaccine. It puts other people at risk as we're seeing with measels and such. It would make sense that people would be more emotionally invested. I'd guess that principle would apply to other issues as well. 

I guess but other than saying I don’t think the government should mandate what goes into a child I’m not taking the bait.  Emotional or not people cannot handle themselves whatsoever in that discussion.  They’ve already decided their way is 100% correct and anyone that disagrees is an idiot at best.  

 

[Henry Ford]

Post something that questions vaccines or is against the government mandating drugging babies with vaccines and see what you get called.

That’s probably getting more and more true as unvaccinated or unvaccinatable kids are dying from preventable diseases all over the world, too. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

That’s probably getting more and more true as unvaccinated or unvaccinatable kids are dying from preventable diseases all over the world, too. 

Okay

 

[Joe Bryant]

I guess but other than saying I don’t think the government should mandate what goes into a child I’m not taking the bait.  Emotional or not people cannot handle themselves whatsoever in that discussion.  They’ve already decided their way is 100% correct and anyone that disagrees is an idiot at best.  

Sorry, no bait.

I'm saying the emotional investment rises as does the degree to be combative more than just argumentative rises the more it starts affecting other people. 

 

[[scooter]]

I guess but other than saying I don’t think the government should mandate what goes into a child I’m not taking the bait.  Emotional or not people cannot handle themselves whatsoever in that discussion.  They’ve already decided their way is 100% correct and anyone that disagrees is an idiot at best.  

There's a defensible argument to be made regarding vaccine concerns, and it goes something like this:

"I respect the government's right and obligation to protect society from mass death, but I don't trust the overwhelming consensus of the world's top scientists, and therefore I think families should be able to withhold their child from vaccinations -- as long as those families agree to quarantine their children for 18 years or until the children have contracted and developed an immunity to every single disease that they haven't been vaccinated against."

...but somehow I doubt that's the kind of argument that you had in mind.

 

[Rove!]

http://www.espn.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/TMR100facts2018/fantasy-football-100-facts-consider-2018-season

the whole preamble to Matthew Berry’s 100 facts is basically where we are as a country

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Sorry, no bait.

I'm saying the emotional investment rises as does the degree to be combative more than just argumentative rises the more it starts affecting other people. 

Oh I didn’t mean your were baiting. Meant some of the over the top dramatics that always get posted because people think there’s a one size fits all for every child.