This. Its one of the safer plays in football. Scrum plays typically are, I mean look at Rugby, those guys suffer far fewer injuries than football players, and they don't even wear helmets or shoulder pads.
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Tush Push - still legal, Philly fans begin to heal after rough year (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter trader jake
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
to be honest....for the white hat....and now the umpire who are both directly behind the play....it's pretty easy to see when players are pushing the QB ball carrier in the back on these plays.....I mean we can see it on our couches....teams aren't even trying to pretend like they aren't doing it...in part because they don't have to since it is allowed...
belljr
Footballguy
Sure. But I didn't make the ruling in 2006 just that's what was reported
renesauz
IBL Representative
Yep, but it's a also a disparity that defensive players were always allowed to push other defensive players from behind (gang tackles often involve a large element of this)
Why is this an issue?
renesauz
IBL Representative
why is it an issue on the offensive side?
There is no disparity for the offense since the defense can put as many guys as they want to tackle. You stated its a "disparity that defensive players were always allowed to push other defensive players from behind".....I took that to mean you thought it wasn't right so the offense should be able to do as well. My question was why is it a problem to have gang tackles without allowing the offense to tush push?
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
It's great when a play is so good that everyone has a version of it and coordinators stay up nights figuring out how to stop it. It's almost TOO good.
I miss the Wildcat...
I miss the Wildcat...
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Love it or hate it all you want; I’ll guess that they convert at least two 4th and 2’s and score at least one TD (probably two) with this play on Sunday.
IIRC, Jordan Mailata brought it up & Sirianni liked it.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I'll take the over on that combo of occurrences.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Yeah, from a betting standpoint, Jalen Hurts anytime TD is almost always a good bet. There are many times that they get into the redzone and end up with 3rd or 4th and 1/2/3. No brainer to go Tush Push at that point. Not to mention the potential for PI in the endzone putting them on the 1.
I've said this many times before, but honestly, if I was Moore I'd call a few deep shots into the EZ to Brown early. He's so good he'll almost always win 1 on 1's and if not there a good shot at drawing a penalty to get them to the 1-then its automatic TD.
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
Out of a combination of boredom and curiosity, I went through the 2024 Eagles regular season game logs to find out some information about this play. Here are some interesting "facts" with perhaps some minor inaccuracies since I didn't double check my work and because I can't be 100% sure from game logs that this play was used. I'll gladly correct this post if anyone notes any mistakes.
- They never ran it on 4th and 2
- Of the 38 times they ran it, 12 were on 1st or 2nd down (and goal), 17 were on 3rd down, only 9 were on 4th down
- All 9 of the 4th and 1's were successful
- They gained 52 yards (10 from penalties) so on average they play nets about 3.5-4 feet.
- The play never lost yards.
- Of the 38 times they ran it, they needed a single yard on 36 of those tries.
- Drives where they utilized this play resulted in a TD or FG in all but 6 instances. All but two of those were TDs.
- It was successful 30/38 times for a 79% success rate (i've seen 81% reported which is 30/37 so I may have double counted something)
- The Steelers were the most successful against it, stopping it on 3 of 5 attempts.
- Every time the play was stopped, they ran it back and were successful except for a series against Pittsburgh where they failed on 1st and 2 and 2nd a 2 with the tush push only to throw a TD to Devonta on 3rd and 2.
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oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
No. The main difference seems to be that the Eagles utilize their sneak frequently on 3rd and 1 whereas most other teams will try to run on that down and distance which carries a risk of a negative play resulting in a punt.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Nick has spoken on this a couple of times. The fact that you are guaranteed to get some positive yardage and really never have a chance to lose yardage is why they use it near the goal line.
If you’re third and two to the goal line, there’s a fair chance of a sack on a pass play, or catching the running back in the backfield. This makes going for it on fourth down a risky proposition. If you run the tush push you almost certainly score, and if you don’t, you’re almost certainly going to score the next time.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Yes, precisely.
trader jake
Footballguy
One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
www.nbcsports.com
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
www.nbcsports.com
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Please, which team is this??One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Injury inducing? Please list any or all injuries that have been induced by or as a direct result of running this play. Please.One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
Anti-strategy? Seems to me (upon personally witnessing it many, many times) that the play is a very strategic play.
Your unending diatribe about this one particular play is based on the fact that your fee-fees were hurt when your team was unable to stop the play from being successful. You feel it was unfair. You feel cheated. Your team lost.
Get over it.
eighsse2
Footballguy
People probably thinking a division rival or the Chiefs after losing the Super Bowl. But one think I know is no one hates things that work more than the Browns.Please, which team is this??One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
trader jake
Footballguy
Apparently the PackersPlease, which team is this??One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
It's not about one game, one team, or one season. It's about never wanting to see this non-sense in any NFL game ever again.Injury inducing? Please list any or all injuries that have been induced by or as a direct result of running this play. Please.One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
Anti-strategy? Seems to me (upon personally witnessing it many, many times) that the play is a very strategic play.
Your unending diatribe about this one particular play is based on the fact that your fee-fees were hurt when your team was unable to stop the play from being successful. You feel it was unfair. You feel cheated. Your team lost.
Get over it.
It also sucks to watch a "play" where the offensive line is almost always lined up in the neutral zone (not called) and at least one lineman leaves before the snap (not called). Then add in you can't determine where the ball is a lot of the time or know when the "play" is stopped. Even with slowed down replays it's a total cluster, get rid of it.
need2know
Footballguy
Apparently the PackersPlease, which team is this??One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
It's not about one game, one team, or one season. It's about never wanting to see this non-sense in any NFL game ever again.Injury inducing? Please list any or all injuries that have been induced by or as a direct result of running this play. Please.One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
Anti-strategy? Seems to me (upon personally witnessing it many, many times) that the play is a very strategic play.
Your unending diatribe about this one particular play is based on the fact that your fee-fees were hurt when your team was unable to stop the play from being successful. You feel it was unfair. You feel cheated. Your team lost.
Get over it.
It also sucks to watch a "play" where the offensive line is almost always lined up in the neutral zone (not called) and at least one lineman leaves before the snap (not called). Then add in you can't determine where the ball is a lot of the time or know when the "play" is stopped. Even with slowed down replays it's a total cluster, get rid of it.
your team sucks
Terpman22
Footballguy
Either way, this play is going to be legendary.
If they ban it - Its forever bragging rights from Eagles fans (and feel free to disagree about the *merit* of said bragging rights but not that the actual bragging will hapen)
If it stays, Jalen Hurts will become the first NFL QB in league history with 100+ rushing TDs, and *then* the play will be in Canton, along with Jalen Hurts. (if he gets 100+ TDs, he is going in, sorry)
If they ban it - Its forever bragging rights from Eagles fans (and feel free to disagree about the *merit* of said bragging rights but not that the actual bragging will hapen)
If it stays, Jalen Hurts will become the first NFL QB in league history with 100+ rushing TDs, and *then* the play will be in Canton, along with Jalen Hurts. (if he gets 100+ TDs, he is going in, sorry)
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
If you've read the Eli Manning HOF thread, all Hurts needs is one more Super Bowl MVP and regardless of how his numbers stack up to his contemporaries, he's in.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Whichever one it is, I already feel bad for them and their fans. It’s pathetic.Please, which team is this??One NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I always think it is quite an honor when anything has to be modified to counter excellence. One fun example that comes to mind is when one of the sites, ESPN or MLB, had a list of the fastest individual pitches of the year and they had an "Aroldis Chapman Filter" button so that you could actually see some names other than Chapman. Also an acquaintance whose keeper league implemented the "your keeper's price moves up two rounds each year" because he drafted Kamara as a rookie in the ~15th round.
Deamon
Footballguy
It's actually lower.
According to a study conducted by Yale, it was determined that going for a QB sneak on fourth-and-1 is successful 82.8% of the time. That is more than 20 points higher than all other plays used on fourth-and-1.
| Play type | Conversion rate |
| QB sneak | 82.8 |
| Non-QB running plays | 63.4 |
| All non-sneaks | 62 |
Another study conducted by Sports Info Solutions using data from 2015 through 2018 found similar results. That study established that quarterback sneaks had a conversion rate of 88% on third- or fourth-and-short scenarios, the best of any potential play call in those scenarios.
NFL.com also conducted a study assessing quarterback sneaks from 2017 to 2022. The league found the conversion rate of all quarterback sneaks to sit at 83.6% from that period.
Those saying it's unstoppable or should be banned are ridiculous. A traditional QB sneak is just as effective historically, and with Philly's Oline and Hurts' strength, the difference between him traditionally sneaking and tush pushing would be extremely minimal.
Looks like was the Packers (unless more than one)
www.si.com
NFL Team That Wants Tush Push Banned Has Been Identified
This NFL team's president would like to see the tush push get banned.
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
With how heavily scrutinized this play is, I find it hard to believe the Eagles are in the neutral zone or guilty of false starts. I don’t doubt it has happened once or whatever, but Trader Jake suggests it is a regular occurrence while I’ve always seen perfect execution in the video clips that slow the play down.
If there was a risk of a false start/neutral zone infraction, the eagles would not run it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, this is stupid. It’s such an unstoppable play that it’s literally associated with one (1) team. The thing has a Philly-based nickname ffs.Looks like was the Packers (unless more than one)
NFL Team That Wants Tush Push Banned Has Been Identified
This NFL team's president would like to see the tush push get banned.
If it were so unstoppable that it requires a rule, why isn’t every team running it?
I can’t imagine this resulting in a ban of the QB sneak.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
It's such an unstoppable play that the Bills essentially lost the AFCCG because their attempts with it got stopped.Yeah, this is stupid. It’s such an unstoppable play that it’s literally associated with one (1) team. The thing has a Philly-based nickname ffs.Looks like was the Packers (unless more than one)
NFL Team That Wants Tush Push Banned Has Been Identified
This NFL team's president would like to see the tush push get banned.
If it were so unstoppable that it requires a rule, why isn’t every team running it?
I can’t imagine this resulting in a ban of the QB sneak.
GoBirds
Footballguy
This is such the time we live in. Can’t stop it so ask for special rules to get rid of it.banning plays
what a soft sport.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
But… but someone could get hurt! Won’t someone think of the poor QBs who can’t do a 600 lb squat?banning plays
what a soft sport.
Terpman22
Footballguy
This is why I love sports. What Trader Jake is saying is straight up, untrue. And why I love sports, is bc its so EASILY proven to be untrue. So then, its easier to gather enough evidence to say someone is a crybaby, has sour grapes, is a sore loser, etc. There is no opinion who the winner or the loser is, just opinions on how the loser could have won or the winner could have lost.
trader jake
Footballguy
From PFT:
Add Falcons head coach Raheem Morris to the growing list of people in the NFL who want to ban the tush push.
Morris said today at the Scouting Combine that he believes the NFL should have acted quickly to ban the tush push as soon as it began to be employed.
“It should’ve been illegal three years ago,” Morris said with a smile. “No, the tush push play, I’ve never been a big fan. There’s no other play in our game where you can absolutely get behind somebody and push them, pull them off, do anything.”
Just another Eagles hater I guess.
Add Falcons head coach Raheem Morris to the growing list of people in the NFL who want to ban the tush push.
Morris said today at the Scouting Combine that he believes the NFL should have acted quickly to ban the tush push as soon as it began to be employed.
“It should’ve been illegal three years ago,” Morris said with a smile. “No, the tush push play, I’ve never been a big fan. There’s no other play in our game where you can absolutely get behind somebody and push them, pull them off, do anything.”
Just another Eagles hater I guess.
Terpman22
Footballguy
I mean if that is his direct quote, I have to question why he is a HC but you cannot "pull them off/do anything" on any offensive play in the NFL. Pulling the players is clearly and definitely against teh rules. Its called the TUSH *PUSH* for crying out loud, and I do mean crying, Raheem!From PFT:
Add Falcons head coach Raheem Morris to the growing list of people in the NFL who want to ban the tush push.
Morris said today at the Scouting Combine that he believes the NFL should have acted quickly to ban the tush push as soon as it began to be employed.
“It should’ve been illegal three years ago,” Morris said with a smile. “No, the tush push play, I’ve never been a big fan. There’s no other play in our game where you can absolutely get behind somebody and push them, pull them off, do anything.”
Just another Eagles hater I guess.
Again, If you don't like it, just be honest about it why you don't like it. We all can pay like what $100 or less to get all-22 access and refute almost all the false stuff said about the play
1. The Eagles don't line up offsides every play
2. there is no pulling allowed
3. you can't "do anything"
4. Not everyone can do it, its clear and obvious - Hi Jordan Love
5. it DOES NOT increase risk of injury any more than any NFL play
6. the touchdowns still do count
7. there is no distinct advantage the offense has more on this play than they do on any other offensive play vs NFL defenses
8. Its not the only "non aesthetically pleasing" play in the NFL
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I'd be very surprised if this proposal got the 24 of 32 votes it needs.From PFT:
Add Falcons head coach Raheem Morris to the growing list of people in the NFL who want to ban the tush push.
Morris said today at the Scouting Combine that he believes the NFL should have acted quickly to ban the tush push as soon as it began to be employed.
“It should’ve been illegal three years ago,” Morris said with a smile. “No, the tush push play, I’ve never been a big fan. There’s no other play in our game where you can absolutely get behind somebody and push them, pull them off, do anything.”
Just another Eagles hater I guess.
renesauz
IBL Representative
so tired of the injury argument. It's falseOne NFL team has proposed banning the Tush Push
One NFL team has proposed banning the tush push
In the days leading up to Super Bowl LIX, Fox rules analyst Mike Pereira said that he thinks the league might take a look at banning the tush push this offseason and at least one team would like them to do that.
Make it happen. Get rid of this anti-strategy, injury inducing, rugby scrum of a non-play already. Or wait another year until officials have to start "awarding" touchdowns because defenses start taking more and more extreme measures.
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
To me, I think the debate comes down to whether or not you think that this play falls within the spirit of the rules of football.
As a kid who never played organized football but played a LOT of backyard football and then went on to play rugby in college...I like that this play is a messy scrum. I like that this play is a play where the fat guys get the spotlight for once. I like that the team with the more physically imposing players has an advantage. I also like that I'm watching a team have the guts to try to maintain possession instead of just punting the ball back, which always seemed lame.
Maybe if teams stop complaining and instead built their defenses to be more stout up front, they'd be able to stop the play, keep Saquon from ripping off 60 yarders and also keep players like Mahomes in check while only rushing 4.
As a kid who never played organized football but played a LOT of backyard football and then went on to play rugby in college...I like that this play is a messy scrum. I like that this play is a play where the fat guys get the spotlight for once. I like that the team with the more physically imposing players has an advantage. I also like that I'm watching a team have the guts to try to maintain possession instead of just punting the ball back, which always seemed lame.
Maybe if teams stop complaining and instead built their defenses to be more stout up front, they'd be able to stop the play, keep Saquon from ripping off 60 yarders and also keep players like Mahomes in check while only rushing 4.
Zow
Footballguy
I hate the Eagles with about as much energy as I can hate anything that doesn't actually negatively impact my family's life. I would get actual, sheer joy watching the Eagles (and the Phillies for that matter) go 0 for ad finitum for the remainder of their existence as a franchise. In other words, I would happily look for any way to criticize this team or provided it was within the scope of the rules create a disadvantage for them.I mean if that is his direct quote, I have to question why he is a HC but you cannot "pull them off/do anything" on any offensive play in the NFL. Pulling the players is clearly and definitely against teh rules. Its called the TUSH *PUSH* for crying out loud, and I do mean crying, Raheem!From PFT:
Add Falcons head coach Raheem Morris to the growing list of people in the NFL who want to ban the tush push.
Morris said today at the Scouting Combine that he believes the NFL should have acted quickly to ban the tush push as soon as it began to be employed.
“It should’ve been illegal three years ago,” Morris said with a smile. “No, the tush push play, I’ve never been a big fan. There’s no other play in our game where you can absolutely get behind somebody and push them, pull them off, do anything.”
Just another Eagles hater I guess.
Again, If you don't like it, just be honest about it why you don't like it. We all can pay like what $100 or less to get all-22 access and refute almost all the false stuff said about the play
1. The Eagles don't line up offsides every play
2. there is no pulling allowed
3. you can't "do anything"
4. Not everyone can do it, its clear and obvious - Hi Jordan Love
5. it DOES NOT increase risk of injury any more than any NFL play
6. the touchdowns still do count
7. there is no distinct advantage the offense has more on this play than they do on any other offensive play vs NFL defenses
8. Its not the only "non aesthetically pleasing" play in the NFL
But, with the tush push, they're right and they've perfected it. It's within the rules. If it was a violation, other teams would easily be able to replicate their success. But they haven't. Criticizing it is akin to the early 90s golfers who complained about Tiger Woods' fitness as if it were some sort of illegal advantage.
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