Until we do something about guns, don’t expect things to change overni (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

Good grief.

 

[timschochet]

Good morning. Not surprised that so many of you disagree with me, but I'm a bit surprised by the level of vitriol. Oh well.

Vitriol or not, I stand by my comments. Would closing the private sales loophole make it impossible for bad guys to purchase guns? Of course not. But it would make it much more difficult, and thus reduce gun violence. That's what most law enforcement says, and I find their arguments on this compelling.

Is the NRA responsible in part for greater gun violence in this country? Well, they spend millions of dollars fighting reasonable proposals like removing the private sales loophole. And though they are always saying that the existing laws need to be enforced, they spend more millions attempting (successfully I might add) to weaken the ATF. So yes, I believe they are in part responsible. If that makes me asinine, so be it.

 

[Kal El]

Tim, I think you may be missing a key point here. Criminals who want a gun to do someone bodily harm aren't going to worry "Oh no, I'm violating the private sale law" when they get a gun from whatever nefarious means they wish to use. The private sale law would affect a lot of assumably honest, law-abiding gun owners who simply wish to have another firearm.

 

[Da Guru]

On Easter weekend, 45 people were shot in the city, six of them children.

Gun battles always pick up around the Holidays in Chicago. Memorial Day should be a busy weekend for shootings, and the Fourth of July is the grand daddy of them all.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, I think you may be missing a key point here. Criminals who want a gun to do someone bodily harm aren't going to worry "Oh no, I'm violating the private sale law" when they get a gun from whatever nefarious means they wish to use. The private sale law would affect a lot of assumably honest, law-abiding gun owners who simply wish to have another firearm.

Well first off it would make it more difficult for the criminals, so whether or not they would worry about it, less of them would have guns. As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

 

[Mohawk]

Our society is saturated with guns. The NRA thinks that is a good thing. I do not. Anyone can find statistics, if you look, that owning a gun makes you more likely to get shot. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/

Gun advocates get all riled up when even common sense ideas like background checks is suggested. Not sure why this is. Fear mongering NRA says Obama and Big Government wants to take all your guns. That is just so ridiculous. Sensible and enforceable regulations and background checks are a step in the right direction. Proper education and training would also help. Making it more difficult for mentally unstable people to obtain firearms is a good thing. Take away the paranoia and surely everyone agrees that a mentally unstable person should not be able to easily obtain a gun and permit to carry. Would you want a mentally unstable person in your neighborhood to have easy access to guns around you and your family. I would think not.

So why the knee jerk reaction against background checks?

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Good morning. Not surprised that so many of you disagree with me, but I'm a bit surprised by the level of vitriol. Oh well.

Vitriol or not, I stand by my comments. Would closing the private sales loophole make it impossible for bad guys to purchase guns? Of course not. But it would make it much more difficult, and thus reduce gun violence. That's what most law enforcement says, and I find their arguments on this compelling.

Is the NRA responsible in part for greater gun violence in this country? Well, they spend millions of dollars fighting reasonable proposals like removing the private sales loophole. And though they are always saying that the existing laws need to be enforced, they spend more millions attempting (successfully I might add) to weaken the ATF. So yes, I believe they are in part responsible. If that makes me asinine, so be it.

One reason for the level of vitriol is this quote from you...

But there are no background checks for private transactions. Those of us who think this loophole is absolute insanity have tried again and again and again and again to get rid of it, but each and every time we are stopped by the NRA and its fanatic supporters. And that is one big reason why there is so much gun violence in Chicago.

Sorry but not having background checks for private transactions and the NRA are not the big reason why there is so much gun violence in Chicago. That is a clueless statement.

 

[timschochet]

I wrote that it is ONE big reason, not THE big reason. And later on I clarified that it was not specific to Chicago. You are correct that if you interpreted my statement as you did, then it would indeed be clueless. But hopefully now that I have clarified it you won't interpret it the same way.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

I wrote that it is ONE big reason, not THE big reason. And later on I clarified that it was not specific to Chicago. You are correct that if you interpreted my statement as you did, then it would indeed be clueless. But hopefully now that I have clarified it you won't interpret it the same way.

But you actually think that ONE of the big reasons for all the gun violence in Chicago is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. That is clueless Tim.

 

[timschochet]

I wrote that it is ONE big reason, not THE big reason. And later on I clarified that it was not specific to Chicago. You are correct that if you interpreted my statement as you did, then it would indeed be clueless. But hopefully now that I have clarified it you won't interpret it the same way.

But you actually think that ONE of the big reasons for all the gun violence in Chicago is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. That is clueless Tim.

I think it's one of the big reasons for gun violence everywhere, not specific to Chicago. And if I am clueless about this then so is most law enforcement.

 

[Black Box]

On Easter weekend, 45 people were shot in the city, six of them children.

Gun battles always pick up around the Holidays in Chicago. Memorial Day should be a busy weekend for shootings, and the Fourth of July is the grand daddy of them all.

Maybe we should ban holidays.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

I wrote that it is ONE big reason, not THE big reason. And later on I clarified that it was not specific to Chicago. You are correct that if you interpreted my statement as you did, then it would indeed be clueless. But hopefully now that I have clarified it you won't interpret it the same way.

But you actually think that ONE of the big reasons for all the gun violence in Chicago is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. That is clueless Tim.

I think it's one of the big reasons for gun violence everywhere, not specific to Chicago. And if I am clueless about this then so is most law enforcement.

We understand that you think it isn't just specific to Chicago but you did write that one of the big reasons for all the gun violence in CHICAGO is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. I suggest you do some research on the gun violence in Chicago and let us know how those background checks would stop those thugs and gang members from killing people.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Mass shootings are a matter of great public interest and concern. They also are a relatively small share of shootings overall. According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics review, homicides that claimed at least three lives accounted for less than 1% of all homicide deaths from 1980 to 2008. These homicides, most of which are shootings, increased as a share of all homicides from 0.5% in 1980 to 0.8% in 2008, according to the bureau’s data. A Congressional Research Service report, using a definition of four deaths or more, counted 547 deaths from mass shootings in the U.S. from 1983 to 2012.2 Looking at the larger topic of firearm deaths, there were 31,672 deaths from guns in the U.S. in 2010. Most (19,392) were suicides; the gun suicide rate has been higher than the gun homicide rate since at least 1981, and the gap is wider than it was in 1981

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

Sorry but the numbers above are just not large enough for me to be overly concerned about this issue. We live in a VERY free society and there is going to be some violence. And violent crime is much lower than it was just a couple of decades ago. It baffles me that some people consider this such a huge issue.

 

[MaxThreshold]

On Easter weekend, 45 people were shot in the city, six of them children.

Gun battles always pick up around the Holidays in Chicago. Memorial Day should be a busy weekend for shootings, and the Fourth of July is the grand daddy of them all.

Maybe we should ban holidays.

Or maybe we should ban people.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

How do bad guys get guns, when the laws say they're not supposed to? One major way is the private sales loophole. Convicted felons are supposed to go through background checks, and these checks should, theoretically, prevent them from buying guns. But there are no background checks for private transactions. Those of us who think this loophole is absolute insanity have tried again and again and again and again to get rid of it, but each and every time we are stopped by the NRA and its fanatic supporters. And that is one big reason why there is so much gun violence in Chicago.

I would think the best way for a "bad guy" (someone outside the law) would be to steal them or obtain them some other illegal way. I don't believe any law you put in place will prevent "bad guys" from getting guns to do bad things.

Hey "bad guy" it is against the law to carry that gun ..........Bad Guy: I don't give a f**k , I'm a Bad Guy!

 

[Megalomaniac]

I'm sorry but anyone who actually thinks the inner city violence would stop because of gun laws is fooling themselves. I can think of at least 20 different ways to kill a person without guns and much of the inner city violence has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with drugs, racketeering, and other criminal acts. All the gun control in the world will NOT STOP THE VILOENCE. People will still die and guns will still exist...there are laws against all the activity that leads to these shootings but has that stopped any of these criminals? This type of criminal violence (gang related,etc) is something you do or you don't do. Yes, there are instances when violent crimes of passion occur....but banning guns will not stop criminals or the violence in Chicago. Gun control only serves the rich and the political elite in this country. Anybody who doesn't believe that....again is just fooling themselves and hasn't studied much history.

You know guns are outlawed in North Korea, but then again so are many other freedoms that protect the common citizen. THAT is the reason I will never support banning of guns. I'm sorry for the INNOCENT people who have lost their lives, but many, many more millions have lost there lives to govt wars and tryanny that ususally starts from these same political elites telling us to get rid of our guns. Tell me...how many people have died by the hand of military guns vs the guns of private citizens? Even today I would guess that more innocent people die today by the hands of military guns than private citizens. Very convenient that the armed security forces and military serving these same political elites won't have to give up their guns. For anybody who thinks times are different and the our freedoms are written in stone are fools....I have thousands of years of history on my side that says the exact opposite. Govts kill more people than guns.....I suggest we ban them.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I'm sorry but anyone who actually thinks the inner city violence would stop because of gun laws is fooling themselves. I can think of at least 20 different ways to kill a person without guns and much of the inner city violence has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with drugs, racketeering, and other criminal acts. All the gun control in the world will NOT STOP THE VILOENCE. People will still die and guns will still exist...there are laws against all the activity that leads to these shootings but has that stopped any of these criminals? This type of criminal violence (gang related,etc) is something you do or you don't do. Yes, there are instances when violent crimes of passion occur....but banning guns will not stop criminals or the violence in Chicago. Gun control only serves the rich and the political elite in this country. Anybody who doesn't believe that....again is just fooling themselves and hasn't studied much history.

You know guns are outlawed in North Korea, but then again so are many other freedoms that protect the common citizen. THAT is the reason I will never support banning of guns. I'm sorry for the INNOCENT people who have lost their lives, but many, many more millions have lost there lives to govt wars and tryanny that ususally starts from these same political elites telling us to get rid of our guns. Tell me...how many people have died by the hand of military guns vs the guns of private citizens? Even today I would guess that more innocent people die today by the hands of military guns than private citizens. Very convenient that the armed security forces and military serving these same political elites won't have to give up their guns. For anybody who thinks times are different and the our freedoms are written in stone are fools....I have thousands of years of history on my side that says the exact opposite. Govts kill more people than guns.....I suggest we ban them.

Gosh this is such a good post. I nominate this as a candidate for Post of the Year.

 

[Kal El]

Tim, I think you may be missing a key point here. Criminals who want a gun to do someone bodily harm aren't going to worry "Oh no, I'm violating the private sale law" when they get a gun from whatever nefarious means they wish to use. The private sale law would affect a lot of assumably honest, law-abiding gun owners who simply wish to have another firearm.

Well first off it would make it more difficult for the criminals, so whether or not they would worry about it, less of them would have guns. As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

A criminal can get their hands on a weapon, regardless of whatever laws are in place. Requiring a background check for private sales isn't going to stop much in the way of criminal activity. As for the law-abiders, firearm sales are now likely to be more expensive because of the background check, hunters will have to spend more to pursue their hobby, as will gun collectors, but the criminal who got his gun without that check won't have to worry about it being more expensive.

 

[DiStefano]

I wrote that it is ONE big reason, not THE big reason. And later on I clarified that it was not specific to Chicago. You are correct that if you interpreted my statement as you did, then it would indeed be clueless. But hopefully now that I have clarified it you won't interpret it the same way.

But you actually think that ONE of the big reasons for all the gun violence in Chicago is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. That is clueless Tim.

I think it's one of the big reasons for gun violence everywhere, not specific to Chicago. And if I am clueless about this then so is most law enforcement.

We understand that you think it isn't just specific to Chicago but you did write that one of the big reasons for all the gun violence in CHICAGO is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. I suggest you do some research on the gun violence in Chicago and let us know how those background checks would stop those thugs and gang members from killing people.

As soon as Tim realized what an idiotic statement he had made, and how moronic his conclusions, he started backing away from it and rationalizing. Too often he posts in a mindless fashion while exercising his prejudices and while his mind is disengaged; and he usually doesn't do much better when his mind is engaged.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If you make it illegal for gangbangers to buy guns, they won't shoot anyone.

/timlogic.

Moron.

 

[Enderdog]

As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

What would be the incentive for me to do a background check on a private sale? There's no way for the authorities to ever know if I didn't do a check.

 

[dozer]

As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

What would be the incentive for me to do a background check on a private sale? There's no way for the authorities to ever know if I didn't do a check.

Well, say the person you sold it to robbed a liquor store and got caught and they traced the gun back to you. If you were found guilty and went to jail for a couple of years would that be an incentive?

 

[StrikeS2k]

As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

What would be the incentive for me to do a background check on a private sale? There's no way for the authorities to ever know if I didn't do a check.

Well, say the person you sold it to robbed a liquor store and got caught and they traced the gun back to you. If you were found guilty and went to jail for a couple of years would that be an incentive?

Jeez, we have like the highest incarceration rate in the civilized world. Let's quit adding more dumb reasons to incarcerate people.

 

[timschochet]

I wrote that it is ONE big reason, not THE big reason. And later on I clarified that it was not specific to Chicago. You are correct that if you interpreted my statement as you did, then it would indeed be clueless. But hopefully now that I have clarified it you won't interpret it the same way.

But you actually think that ONE of the big reasons for all the gun violence in Chicago is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. That is clueless Tim.

I think it's one of the big reasons for gun violence everywhere, not specific to Chicago. And if I am clueless about this then so is most law enforcement.

We understand that you think it isn't just specific to Chicago but you did write that one of the big reasons for all the gun violence in CHICAGO is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. I suggest you do some research on the gun violence in Chicago and let us know how those background checks would stop those thugs and gang members from killing people.

As soon as Tim realized what an idiotic statement he had made, and how moronic his conclusions, he started backing away from it and rationalizing. Too often he posts in a mindless fashion while exercising his prejudices and while his mind is disengaged; and he usually doesn't do much better when his mind is engaged.

I'mNot backing away from a single thing I wrote. If you misinterpreted it, that's on you, not me.

 

[Stinger Ray]

I wrote that it is ONE big reason, not THE big reason. And later on I clarified that it was not specific to Chicago. You are correct that if you interpreted my statement as you did, then it would indeed be clueless. But hopefully now that I have clarified it you won't interpret it the same way.

But you actually think that ONE of the big reasons for all the gun violence in Chicago is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. That is clueless Tim.

I think it's one of the big reasons for gun violence everywhere, not specific to Chicago. And if I am clueless about this then so is most law enforcement.

We understand that you think it isn't just specific to Chicago but you did write that one of the big reasons for all the gun violence in CHICAGO is because of the NRA and the lack of background checks on private transactions. I suggest you do some research on the gun violence in Chicago and let us know how those background checks would stop those thugs and gang members from killing people.

As soon as Tim realized what an idiotic statement he had made, and how moronic his conclusions, he started backing away from it and rationalizing. Too often he posts in a mindless fashion while exercising his prejudices and while his mind is disengaged; and he usually doesn't do much better when his mind is engaged.

I'mNot backing away from a single thing I wrote. If you misinterpreted it, that's on you, not me.

 

[timschochet]

As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

What would be the incentive for me to do a background check on a private sale? There's no way for the authorities to ever know if I didn't do a check.

Well, say the person you sold it to robbed a liquor store and got caught and they traced the gun back to you. If you were found guilty and went to jail for a couple of years would that be an incentive?

Jeez, we have like the highest incarceration rate in the civilized world. Let's quit adding more dumb reasons to incarcerate people.

I agree. I wouldn't send a first time offender to jail for something like this. A fine, plus liability (the victims family can sue you for selling a gun without a background check) will suffice.

 

[timschochet]

I'm sorry but anyone who actually thinks the inner city violence would stop because of gun laws is fooling themselves. I can think of at least 20 different ways to kill a person without guns and much of the inner city violence has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with drugs, racketeering, and other criminal acts. All the gun control in the world will NOT STOP THE VILOENCE. People will still die and guns will still exist...there are laws against all the activity that leads to these shootings but has that stopped any of these criminals? This type of criminal violence (gang related,etc) is something you do or you don't do. Yes, there are instances when violent crimes of passion occur....but banning guns will not stop criminals or the violence in Chicago. Gun control only serves the rich and the political elite in this country. Anybody who doesn't believe that....again is just fooling themselves and hasn't studied much history.

You know guns are outlawed in North Korea, but then again so are many other freedoms that protect the common citizen. THAT is the reason I will never support banning of guns. I'm sorry for the INNOCENT people who have lost their lives, but many, many more millions have lost there lives to govt wars and tryanny that ususally starts from these same political elites telling us to get rid of our guns. Tell me...how many people have died by the hand of military guns vs the guns of private citizens? Even today I would guess that more innocent people die today by the hands of military guns than private citizens. Very convenient that the armed security forces and military serving these same political elites won't have to give up their guns. For anybody who thinks times are different and the our freedoms are written in stone are fools....I have thousands of years of history on my side that says the exact opposite. Govts kill more people than guns.....I suggest we ban them.

Gosh this is such a good post. I nominate this as a candidate for Post of the Year.

Not surprised you'd like it. It's full of typical NRA style paranoia. The only reason I want background checks is in order to establish a North Korea type dictatorship here.

 

[Enderdog]

As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

What would be the incentive for me to do a background check on a private sale? There's no way for the authorities to ever know if I didn't do a check.

Well, say the person you sold it to robbed a liquor store and got caught and they traced the gun back to you. If you were found guilty and went to jail for a couple of years would that be an incentive?

Not really, nearly all the guns I own I've bought second hand, so they can't be traced to me.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Tim sucks.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I'm sorry but anyone who actually thinks the inner city violence would stop because of gun laws is fooling themselves. I can think of at least 20 different ways to kill a person without guns and much of the inner city violence has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with drugs, racketeering, and other criminal acts. All the gun control in the world will NOT STOP THE VILOENCE. People will still die and guns will still exist...there are laws against all the activity that leads to these shootings but has that stopped any of these criminals? This type of criminal violence (gang related,etc) is something you do or you don't do. Yes, there are instances when violent crimes of passion occur....but banning guns will not stop criminals or the violence in Chicago. Gun control only serves the rich and the political elite in this country. Anybody who doesn't believe that....again is just fooling themselves and hasn't studied much history.

You know guns are outlawed in North Korea, but then again so are many other freedoms that protect the common citizen. THAT is the reason I will never support banning of guns. I'm sorry for the INNOCENT people who have lost their lives, but many, many more millions have lost there lives to govt wars and tryanny that ususally starts from these same political elites telling us to get rid of our guns. Tell me...how many people have died by the hand of military guns vs the guns of private citizens? Even today I would guess that more innocent people die today by the hands of military guns than private citizens. Very convenient that the armed security forces and military serving these same political elites won't have to give up their guns. For anybody who thinks times are different and the our freedoms are written in stone are fools....I have thousands of years of history on my side that says the exact opposite. Govts kill more people than guns.....I suggest we ban them.

Gosh this is such a good post. I nominate this as a candidate for Post of the Year.

Not surprised you'd like it. It's full of typical NRA style paranoia. The only reason I want background checks is in order to establish a North Korea type dictatorship here.

Listen, Tim, I like you. Let's try to stay away from name calling (implied or explicit).

 

[top dog]

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/January-2012/Why-Are-There-So-Many-Gang-Members-in-Chicago/

Decent article as to some of the reasons that Chicago has so many more gang members than NY.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I'm sorry but anyone who actually thinks the inner city violence would stop because of gun laws is fooling themselves. I can think of at least 20 different ways to kill a person without guns and much of the inner city violence has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with drugs, racketeering, and other criminal acts. All the gun control in the world will NOT STOP THE VILOENCE. People will still die and guns will still exist...there are laws against all the activity that leads to these shootings but has that stopped any of these criminals? This type of criminal violence (gang related,etc) is something you do or you don't do. Yes, there are instances when violent crimes of passion occur....but banning guns will not stop criminals or the violence in Chicago. Gun control only serves the rich and the political elite in this country. Anybody who doesn't believe that....again is just fooling themselves and hasn't studied much history.

You know guns are outlawed in North Korea, but then again so are many other freedoms that protect the common citizen. THAT is the reason I will never support banning of guns. I'm sorry for the INNOCENT people who have lost their lives, but many, many more millions have lost there lives to govt wars and tryanny that ususally starts from these same political elites telling us to get rid of our guns. Tell me...how many people have died by the hand of military guns vs the guns of private citizens? Even today I would guess that more innocent people die today by the hands of military guns than private citizens. Very convenient that the armed security forces and military serving these same political elites won't have to give up their guns. For anybody who thinks times are different and the our freedoms are written in stone are fools....I have thousands of years of history on my side that says the exact opposite. Govts kill more people than guns.....I suggest we ban them.

Gosh this is such a good post. I nominate this as a candidate for Post of the Year.

Not surprised you'd like it. It's full of typical NRA style paranoia. The only reason I want background checks is in order to establish a North Korea type dictatorship here.

I'm not against background checks if it was to go that direction, I'll play by the rules whatever they are. But to think somehow a background check is going to slow or prevent criminals from obtaining guns is silly.

 

[jonessed]

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/January-2012/Why-Are-There-So-Many-Gang-Members-in-Chicago/

Decent article as to some of the reasons that Chicago has so many more gang members than NY.

It's amazing how much long-term damage can be done with just a few ideological mistakes.

 

[dozer]

As far as the law abiding gun owners, how would they be affected exactly? Because they have to go through a background check for private sales? So what?

What would be the incentive for me to do a background check on a private sale? There's no way for the authorities to ever know if I didn't do a check.

Well, say the person you sold it to robbed a liquor store and got caught and they traced the gun back to you. If you were found guilty and went to jail for a couple of years would that be an incentive?

Not really, nearly all the guns I own I've bought second hand, so they can't be traced to me.

Hopefully the robber is a man of character and doesn't rat you out for selling him the gun. I'm just saying that a serious consequence for not doing a background check would be an incentive to some people. Probably not you, but some people.

 

[encaitar]

I'm sorry but anyone who actually thinks the inner city violence would stop because of gun laws is fooling themselves. I can think of at least 20 different ways to kill a person without guns and much of the inner city violence has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with drugs, racketeering, and other criminal acts. All the gun control in the world will NOT STOP THE VILOENCE. People will still die and guns will still exist...there are laws against all the activity that leads to these shootings but has that stopped any of these criminals? This type of criminal violence (gang related,etc) is something you do or you don't do. Yes, there are instances when violent crimes of passion occur....but banning guns will not stop criminals or the violence in Chicago. Gun control only serves the rich and the political elite in this country. Anybody who doesn't believe that....again is just fooling themselves and hasn't studied much history.

You know guns are outlawed in North Korea, but then again so are many other freedoms that protect the common citizen. THAT is the reason I will never support banning of guns. I'm sorry for the INNOCENT people who have lost their lives, but many, many more millions have lost there lives to govt wars and tryanny that ususally starts from these same political elites telling us to get rid of our guns. Tell me...how many people have died by the hand of military guns vs the guns of private citizens? Even today I would guess that more innocent people die today by the hands of military guns than private citizens. Very convenient that the armed security forces and military serving these same political elites won't have to give up their guns. For anybody who thinks times are different and the our freedoms are written in stone are fools....I have thousands of years of history on my side that says the exact opposite. Govts kill more people than guns.....I suggest we ban them.

Gosh this is such a good post. I nominate this as a candidate for Post of the Year.

Not surprised you'd like it. It's full of typical NRA style paranoia. The only reason I want background checks is in order to establish a North Korea type dictatorship here.

No, it's full of rational foresight. Listen closely. No amount of gun regulation laws will get firearms out of the hands of criminals in this country. Why? Because there is already an excess of firearms on the street in our country.

How many of the guns currently owned in our country do you think are unregistered by the government? Unless these guns are freely registered by their owners, our government will never know of them. So, criminals will still be able to buy or obtain guns with very little change in the amount of effort it takes to get them and without the government knowing they have them.

So, what recourse do we have? If you truly believe that getting guns out of the hands of criminals is the only way to bring down the murder rate in our country then the only option is to take guns out of the hands of everybody. No one is a murderer before the first time they kill someone. Of course the logistics of rounding up 300+ million firearms would be a nightmare, not to mention the revolts it would cause.

Maybe you should instead take the advice many others have offered in this thread and start looking at the mentality a person needs to commit murder. The gang lifestyle and mentality has so much more to do with the murder rate in Chicago than gun ownership. Shootings are a symptom, not the disease in our inner cities and more gun regulation will do little to nothing to treat that disease.

 

[Chaka]

Good grief.

 

[Apes with Guns]

On Easter weekend, 45 people were shot in the city, six of them children.

That's insane.

when you eat the last deviled egg, expect some static.

 

[Fat Nick]

I think I have a solution. (Kidding, but only partly, because I actually think it could work a little bit)

[What follows is a BLANKET stereotype...but you get the point...] Criminals often have money problems because they think short-term and blow money on drugs. "I want this now, who cares about paying for it later." Criminals also have guns. The solution is to think short term, just like them.

Trade guns for drugs. Straight trade. Instead of using guns to rob people to get money to buy drugs, just trade the guns straight up for drugs. Set up a table with little goodie bags of Pot, Heroin, Crack, PCP, etc. Make it 100% legal to trade in a gun and grab a baggie for fun! In fact, that could be the slogan..."Trade your gun, have some fun!" They use the drugs, but the gun is off the streets.

I think we can all agree that drugs will never go away 100%, so why not just use them as leverage to get guns off the streets?

 

[tommyboy]

i'm not sure if its possible to even parody what Tim is doing to this thread

Oh I'm sure someone with your comedic skills could at least try.

I don't think you're this stupid, so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're fishing/trolling just to agitate. If that's what gets you off, have at it. Otherwise, you're a ####### moron.

 

[RCon]

Good morning. Not surprised that so many of you disagree with me, but I'm a bit surprised by the level of vitriol. Oh well.

Vitriol or not, I stand by my comments. Would closing the private sales loophole make it impossible for bad guys to purchase guns? Of course not. But it would make it much more difficult, and thus reduce gun violence. That's what most law enforcement says, and I find their arguments on this compelling.

Is the NRA responsible in part for greater gun violence in this country? Well, they spend millions of dollars fighting reasonable proposals like removing the private sales loophole. And though they are always saying that the existing laws need to be enforced, they spend more millions attempting (successfully I might add) to weaken the ATF. So yes, I believe they are in part responsible. If that makes me asinine, so be it.

Why do you always take everything someone in any position of authority says at face value?

Law enforcement also says that legalizing marijuana will be a catastrophe of biblical proportions, and we know that's pure BS. And need we even bring up the NRA and its lies? Face it, what "law enforcement" tells you is no more valid than what any jerk off the street tells you.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

i'm not sure if its possible to even parody what Tim is doing to this thread

Oh I'm sure someone with your comedic skills could at least try.

I don't think you're this stupid, so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're fishing/trolling just to agitate. If that's what gets you off, have at it. Otherwise, you're a ####### moron.

ouch!

 

[timschochet]

i'm not sure if its possible to even parody what Tim is doing to this thread

Oh I'm sure someone with your comedic skills could at least try.

I don't think you're this stupid, so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're fishing/trolling just to agitate. If that's what gets you off, have at it. Otherwise, you're a ####### moron.

What's laughable about this post is that you're not just insulting me, you're insulting anyone who shares my opinion about background checks. When last I checked, that was around 70% of the American public.

But regardless, you should know by now that on issues like this (and pretty much any serious political issue) I never troll. I don't post to agitate. I am very passionate about this subject.

 

[JohnnyU]

Guns don't kill people, the guns little voices tell people to kill people. Just like those dogs told Son of Sam.

 

[Thunderlips]

There's violence in Chicago because there are criminals aspiring to be the Top Dogs in their field. They're going to try to kill each other regardless.

 

[Stinger Ray]

There's violence in Chicago because there are criminals aspiring to be the Top Dogs in their field. They're going to try to kill each other regardless.

Tim thinks one of the big reasons for shootings in Chicago is the NRA and also the fact they don't require background checks on private gun sales.

 

[Stinger Ray]

i'm not sure if its possible to even parody what Tim is doing to this thread

Oh I'm sure someone with your comedic skills could at least try.

I don't think you're this stupid, so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're fishing/trolling just to agitate. If that's what gets you off, have at it. Otherwise, you're a ####### moron.

What's laughable about this post is that you're not just insulting me, you're insulting anyone who shares my opinion about background checks. When last I checked, that was around 70% of the American public.

But regardless, you should know by now that on issues like this (and pretty much any serious political issue) I never troll. I don't post to agitate. I am very passionate about this subject.

No, he was just insulting you.

 

[timschochet]

Good morning. Not surprised that so many of you disagree with me, but I'm a bit surprised by the level of vitriol. Oh well.

Vitriol or not, I stand by my comments. Would closing the private sales loophole make it impossible for bad guys to purchase guns? Of course not. But it would make it much more difficult, and thus reduce gun violence. That's what most law enforcement says, and I find their arguments on this compelling.

Is the NRA responsible in part for greater gun violence in this country? Well, they spend millions of dollars fighting reasonable proposals like removing the private sales loophole. And though they are always saying that the existing laws need to be enforced, they spend more millions attempting (successfully I might add) to weaken the ATF. So yes, I believe they are in part responsible. If that makes me asinine, so be it.

Why do you always take everything someone in any position of authority says at face value?

Law enforcement also says that legalizing marijuana will be a catastrophe of biblical proportions, and we know that's pure BS. And need we even bring up the NRA and its lies? Face it, what "law enforcement" tells you is no more valid than what any jerk off the street tells you.

It's not like the "authority" in question is stating some fact that I can accept or reject- in this case they're making an argument, one that I find compelling. The argument is this:

Most people who own guns, and sell guns privately, are law-abiding. They don't knowingly sell guns to convicted felons. The felon implicitly lies by purchasing the gun, and since no background check is carried out, the seller never learns that he did, in fact, break the law by selling a weapon to a felon. But- if you remove this loophole, then most private gun sellers will run background checks- not everyone will of course, but enough will that felons will have to find other, more dangerous ways to purchase guns. Of course some will still ultimately be able to obtain them, but we've put a huge hurdle in their path, and by doing so there should be a significant reduction in gun violence.

To me, that argument at least on paper seems very reasonable, and I don't really see the drawbacks. If we try it out, and after a few years it doesn't work, then scrap it. But I think it will work.

 

[timschochet]

There's violence in Chicago because there are criminals aspiring to be the Top Dogs in their field. They're going to try to kill each other regardless.

Tim, like many thoughtul people and the majority of law enforcement around this nation thinks one of the big reasons for shootings in Chicago America is the NRA and also the fact they don't require background checks on private gun sales.

fixed

 

[Stinger Ray]

There's violence in Chicago because there are criminals aspiring to be the Top Dogs in their field. They're going to try to kill each other regardless.

Tim, like many thoughtul people and the majority of law enforcement around this nation thinks one of the big reasons for shootings in Chicago America is the NRA and also the fact they don't require background checks on private gun sales.

fixed

No, you didn't need to fix that. I was replying about Thunderlips post about Chicago and your quote about what is going on there

Those of us who think this loophole is absolute insanity have tried again and again and again and again to get rid of it, but each and every time we are stopped by the NRA and its fanatic supporters. And that is one big reason why there is so much gun violence in Chicago.

 

[Thunderlips]

There's violence in Chicago because there are criminals aspiring to be the Top Dogs in their field. They're going to try to kill each other regardless.

Tim, like many thoughtul people and the majority of law enforcement around this nation thinks one of the big reasons for shootings in Chicago America is the NRA and also the fact they don't require background checks on private gun sales.

fixed

Just let the Chicago PD crack skulls left and right; setting forth a doctrine that it's alright to shoot your rivals in the crime business....but if any civilians get hurt...its over.