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US Men's National Team (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Premier
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
This is not our first time in the Copa.
we have played in the following over the years
1993: Came in 4th in group with 1 point
1995: Made semi finals and lost in 3rd place game. Won group stage
2007: Lost all 3 games as the US sent a B squad to the tournament
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Mexico's record in the Copa is very good. Better than I remembered in fact.
2007: Made semi's and came in 3rd
2004: Won group but lost in quarters to Brazil
2001: Lost in finals
1999: Made semis and came in 3rd
1997: Made semis and came in 3rd
1993: Lost in finals
Capella
Footballguy
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
Don't worry, Floppo and NewlyRetired will be gentle with you. They really do love you and they will call you after.
Capella
Footballguy
Oh I've been watching the NT since 1994, but not to the extent where I was following things like the Copa.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Here is what JK said about Bradley's positioning. It certainly sounds like RHE said in that JK does not want Bradley to have to cover James all game.
=============================
“It depends on opponents, it depends how people play against us and who they are,” Klinsmann told reporters on Tuesday evening, when asked how Bradley was doing in his deeper role. “I think if other teams – like has happened now in two games – play a similar formation, then he’s not challenged into one-against-one situations when they maybe have a traditional playmaker, a No. 10 or something like that.
“The key for him always is, if he’s playing a 6 or an 8, I always ask him to stagger a little bit higher to receive the ball and don’t receive the ball from your center backs in the same line. I think he can play either role, there’s absolutely no problem. If he’s in a good spirit, if he’s full of energy, then he’s a difference-maker.”
=============================
“It depends on opponents, it depends how people play against us and who they are,” Klinsmann told reporters on Tuesday evening, when asked how Bradley was doing in his deeper role. “I think if other teams – like has happened now in two games – play a similar formation, then he’s not challenged into one-against-one situations when they maybe have a traditional playmaker, a No. 10 or something like that.
“The key for him always is, if he’s playing a 6 or an 8, I always ask him to stagger a little bit higher to receive the ball and don’t receive the ball from your center backs in the same line. I think he can play either role, there’s absolutely no problem. If he’s in a good spirit, if he’s full of energy, then he’s a difference-maker.”
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Ned
Footballguy
Please, oh lord, say it ain't so. Put the young buck up there and let Zardoz come off the bench for the final 20mins.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
They've had a bad run lately though, last in their group in '15 and '11, zero games won.
Buzzbait
Footballguy
Let's hope that recent trend continues. As a fan of the USMNT I just can't root for our #1 arch rival. I know, I know I should be rooting for all CONCACAF teams to do well. I've tried in the past but rooting for Mexico just isn't something that's in my DNA. All other CONCACAF teams I'll be pulling for to win (with the obvious exception of Costa Rica on 6/7
).
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
IOW, 6 of the last 8 times Mexico or the US sent real teams to the COPA they finished 2nd or 3rd.
Remind me how we have no chance playing at home again?
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I don't see it continuing for this tournament. Mexico is going to have ENORMOUS support where ever they play and their group is not that hard. They should be the favorites on a neutral field to both Jamaica and Venezuela. I expect that they will come out of this group into the quarters at least with the way they have been playing.Let's hope that recent trend continues. As a fan of the USMNT I just can't root for our #1 arch rival. I know, I know I should be rooting for all CONCACAF teams to do well. I've tried in the past but rooting for Mexico just isn't something that's in my DNA. All other CONCACAF teams I'll be pulling for to win (with the obvious exception of Costa Rica on 6/7
Buzzbait
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree with you. I think getting out of the group is almost a foregone conclusion and in fact they could make a deep run. I'm just saying I'm not going to pulling for El Tri and every opportunity will be rooting for whoever they play,
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Top to bottom, Mexico might be the second most talented team in the tourney.
Opinions of the US's prospects are delightfully mixed. I'm reading people like Pro Soccer Talk picking them fourth in the group. And Wynalda is picking them to beat Colombia and get to the semis. And both outcomes seem plausible to me. It's hard to know. I actually think the team is as strong as it's ever been under JK, but the sample size supporting that conclusion is small. And we just don't know how seriously the South American teams are taking this tournament.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
On the even of the tournament, odds of each team winning (using Oddschecker):
ARG 33.7%
BRA 15.5%
CHI 10.3%
USA 9.3%
URU 8.4%
MEX 7.7%
COL 7.7%
ECU 2.6%
CR 1.1%
PER 1.1%
PAR 0.9%
VEN 0.5%
BOL 0.4%
PAN 0.4%
JAM 0.3%
HAI 0.1%
Huh. Looks like only 2 teams have a significantly better chance of winning it than the US. Even if you think the British oddsmakers are somehow influenced by (non-existent) US bettors, those aren't going to be wildly off.
ARG 33.7%
BRA 15.5%
CHI 10.3%
USA 9.3%
URU 8.4%
MEX 7.7%
COL 7.7%
ECU 2.6%
CR 1.1%
PER 1.1%
PAR 0.9%
VEN 0.5%
BOL 0.4%
PAN 0.4%
JAM 0.3%
HAI 0.1%
Huh. Looks like only 2 teams have a significantly better chance of winning it than the US. Even if you think the British oddsmakers are somehow influenced by (non-existent) US bettors, those aren't going to be wildly off.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The difference though is that Mexico did not send a full team to either '15 or '11 because of the Gold Cup.
In 2015 Mexico sent vets, but were missing almost every important player including Chicharito, Guardardo, Dos Santos brothers, Vela, Herrera, Ochoa and many other first team players were not on the team.
In 2011 Mexico sent an almost entire U22 team (with most players under U20) with the exception of a couple of older players who did not make the Gold Cup squad
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I wish I could claim that knowledge when I said 6 of 8 times they took tournament seriously, but... well...
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think the oddsmakers are significantly overrating Brazil. At least this Brazil team.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Maybe, but when was the last time they had half the chance as Argentina of winning a major tournament? Suspect it's normally more like 25-30% for both?
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I really love the feel of the team right now. With Fab at left back and Bradley at the 6, it finally feels a bit balanced and having most players playing in their correct positions.
Look at our starting back line
Starter in EPL.......Starter in EPL.......Starter in Bundesliga.........Starter in Bundlesliga
I don't think we have ever had this type of club level pedigree ever across our back 4.
But we have played no one yet to really tell one way or another. PR is the only team who basically showed up in the friendlies, so it is really hard to judge.
Which is what makes the Copa pretty cool, as it should give us a MUCH better indication going into the fall qualifiers and eventually into the hex next year.
Buzzbait
Footballguy
Absolutely agree with the bolded comment above. I'm pretty happy where the USMNT is at this point (esp considering where we were after the last Gold Cup). Regarding "how seriously the South American teams are taking this tournament"...I think they are taking this tourney VERY seriously.
Buzzbait
Footballguy
Wow. As much as I'd like to believe those are realistic odds there is no way IMO the US chances of winning are better than Mexico's.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Mexico looks like the best play to me from these odds.
The US chances are very much tied to Friday night imo. If they can win Friday night they are going to be in great shape to win the group which gives them a VERY winnable quarterfinal game against likely Ecuador or Peru.
But if the US loses on Friday night, they are probably a long shot to win the group and at best can come in second and get fed to Brazil in the quarterfinals.
Huge opening game IMO.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
In a 3-game tournament I think you have to trust your eyes more than the scoreboard. But yeah... the pieces sure look like they fit together and we have legit players across most of the field right now.
Ned
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
btw... is this thing we're doing really a 4-3-3, or more like 4-1-4-1? With Bradley in-between the lines? I know there's not a ton of difference between that and either 4-3-3 or 4-5-1, but I feel like (intuition only) we're playing with more of a LM and RM than a LW and RW. Or are they really pressing up that high?
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Copa Golden Boot odds
EDIT:
These must be old if Suarez is still listed. Have to figure Cavani's odds have shortened.
I'm liking those odds on Bacca and Chicharito.
EDIT:
These must be old if Suarez is still listed. Have to figure Cavani's odds have shortened.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The formation is very fluid because of Dempsey's playing style.
Heck at times you could easily see it being a 4-1-1-4 because Dempsey drops so far back to collect the ball. He is not playing the position as a "loan" target striker IMO.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Is Suarez out for good or is he still on the roster trying to heel in time for later games?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Well, it's clearly a 4-5-1 without the ball.
With the ball, it's often a false nine 4-3-3. Particularly when Zardes is on the right. He's often playing higher than Deuce and Wood is looking for space in behind.
With the ball, it's often a false nine 4-3-3. Particularly when Zardes is on the right. He's often playing higher than Deuce and Wood is looking for space in behind.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I thought he was out, but what do I know? I guess he's still on the roster and has travelled. I guess they hope he "heels."
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Ok, I've got it completely wrong. Was looking at something like this:
---------------------Wood/Dempsey
Pulisic--Jones/Nagbe--Dempsey/Bedoya--Zardes
Missed Dempsey playing aloan
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Here is ESPN's projected lineup for Friday. Seems reasonable given JK's comments this week about Bradley
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i/?img=/graphics/2015/0320/insider_carruslineup_md_576x324.jpg&w=738&site=espnfc
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i/?img=/graphics/2015/0320/insider_carruslineup_md_576x324.jpg&w=738&site=espnfc
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
Guardian hit piece on JK - I can't say I disagree with the general sentiment
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/jun/02/jurgen-klinsmann-usa-coach-copa-america
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/jun/02/jurgen-klinsmann-usa-coach-copa-america
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Seems sensible to me as well. Spend some of those old vet legs early in a game against a better team that you want to keep buttoned up, then move to a more attacking/younger lineup after.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Meh. He has issues (the out of position thing and lack of consistency for sure), but his results are in line with our other coaches. Hopefully we'll look back at the last couple years as being down to a changing of the guard. If not, he'll be out.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I agree his results are in line with our other coaches but IMO he was not hired (and more specifically paid more than every other coach in history combined) to repeat the results.
I think he is almost certainly staying through when ever the 2018 cycle ends for the US. If he was not fired after the Gold Cup, he would need to lose like 4 in a row to start the Hex to get fired and I don't think any of us see that happening.
Every team has to start cycling players eventually. This appears to be the start of it (I hope). Dempsey, Becks, Howard, Jones, Wondo and others need to be pushed out of their spots for the betterment of the team.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think its fair to make fun of certain JK quotes, but I don't think you can hold a coach to them unless you think he's squandered a player pool capable of delivering that type of soccer. I don't think we've had that player pool. JK has made plenty of individual decisions I disagree with. In most cases, I understand the reasoning behind them, but we can certainly take issue with them. That's part of the job.
With players like Nagbe and Pulisic in the fold, and with center backs with good distribution skills in Brooks and Cam, we can start to really test JKs commitment to the type of soccer he wants to play. In the preferred lineup we really only have two players (Yedlin and Zardes) who aren't up to snuff technically in the top 13 or so outfield players. That's pretty unique for this team.
With players like Nagbe and Pulisic in the fold, and with center backs with good distribution skills in Brooks and Cam, we can start to really test JKs commitment to the type of soccer he wants to play. In the preferred lineup we really only have two players (Yedlin and Zardes) who aren't up to snuff technically in the top 13 or so outfield players. That's pretty unique for this team.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I feel like Zardes is going to be the easiest to replace, whether it be Pulisic, or Bacon, or Rubin, we do have some better technial choices that should be available in the hex.
Yedlin is worth sticking with as his upside offers more than Zardes imo.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Figuring out where Pulisic would fit best and whether he can provide the type of 90 minute two-way effort we need from a wing position is part of what the next months and years will be about. I sincerely hope that Zardes improves technically (it's unlikely but there are still late bloomers). Because he has some very intriguing attributes. He's an opportunistic goal scorer and physical presence with good workrate. His place might still be as a striker. Particularly if we ever want to play some 4-4-2 (which is a decent option against a lot of CONCACAF opposition).
But we'll still need piano movers. We just want the piano movers to be able to play a little bit too. Bradley is the template IMO. To say that he's good technically isn't to say that he's Toni Kroos. It's to say that he has a very clear idea of his strengths and weaknesses and plays in such a way as to maximize his strengths while still working on his weaknesses. Yes, I want Gyasi to be able to make a productive first touch when the ball is played to his feet. But I also don't want to lose him throwing himself into center backs and getting assists with his back, shoulder, ###, or whatever. Sometimes, we need that.
But we'll still need piano movers. We just want the piano movers to be able to play a little bit too. Bradley is the template IMO. To say that he's good technically isn't to say that he's Toni Kroos. It's to say that he has a very clear idea of his strengths and weaknesses and plays in such a way as to maximize his strengths while still working on his weaknesses. Yes, I want Gyasi to be able to make a productive first touch when the ball is played to his feet. But I also don't want to lose him throwing himself into center backs and getting assists with his back, shoulder, ###, or whatever. Sometimes, we need that.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Looks like Sunil might have a spot at the table in the latest FIFA scandal.
Simon Evans @sgevans
The recording at the centre of the Infantino affair included Sunil Gulati talking about trying to get reformer Scala to quit.
12:58 PM - 2 Jun 2016
=================
Simon Evans @sgevans
Not clear from the German media reports exactly why Gulati was trying to persuade Scala to resign. Curious episode.
Simon Evans @sgevans
The recording at the centre of the Infantino affair included Sunil Gulati talking about trying to get reformer Scala to quit.
12:58 PM - 2 Jun 2016
=================
Simon Evans @sgevans
Not clear from the German media reports exactly why Gulati was trying to persuade Scala to resign. Curious episode.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
ESPN writers predict lineup.
Carlisle: (4-3-3) Guzan; Yedlin, Brooks, Cameron, Johnson; Jones, Bradley, Bedoya; Wood, Dempsey, Zardes
McIntyre: (4-3-3): Guzan; Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Johnson; Bedoya, Bradley, Jones; Wood, Dempsey, Zardes
J. Davis: (4-3-3) Guzan; Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Johnson; Jones, Bradley, Nagbe; Pulisic, Wood, Bedoya
Parker: (4-3-3) Guzan; Johnson, Brooks, Cameron, Yedlin; Jones,Beckerman, Bradley; Wood, Dempsey, Zardes
N. Davis: (4-3-3) Howard; Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Johnson; Bedoya, Bradley, Jones; Nagbe, Dempsey, Wood
Carlisle: (4-3-3) Guzan; Yedlin, Brooks, Cameron, Johnson; Jones, Bradley, Bedoya; Wood, Dempsey, Zardes
McIntyre: (4-3-3): Guzan; Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Johnson; Bedoya, Bradley, Jones; Wood, Dempsey, Zardes
J. Davis: (4-3-3) Guzan; Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Johnson; Jones, Bradley, Nagbe; Pulisic, Wood, Bedoya
Parker: (4-3-3) Guzan; Johnson, Brooks, Cameron, Yedlin; Jones,Beckerman, Bradley; Wood, Dempsey, Zardes
N. Davis: (4-3-3) Howard; Yedlin, Cameron, Brooks, Johnson; Bedoya, Bradley, Jones; Nagbe, Dempsey, Wood
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Jurgen's approach to this game will be telling. Most would agree a draw is a great result.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If we play well, I would be happy with a draw. I think that would still give us a good chance of advancing.
Colombia is one of the great Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde teams. Tons of raw talent but the quality difference of the full team from tournament to tournament varies a ton.
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Sebowski
Footballguy
I really don't want to see Fabian at LB. the guy is a difference maker in the midfield for a Bundesliga team. A team that would beat us. Give him that sot on our team and leave LB to A.Body if necessary. Don't get cute. Play him where he plays. rabblarabblerabble..... #fireJK
Ned
Footballguy
I was surprised nobody else griped about this more when discussing potential lineups.
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