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US Men's National Team (11 Viewers)

If the US is serious about developing its youth soccer potential stars it has to go away from the college development system.  We absolutely need to go to a soccer academy system similar to the rest of the world.  It works in the US and Canada in hockey.  Why not soccer?

 
Corporation said:
:eyeroll:

Great contribution.  The "we'll be better in 10 years" mantra is going on its 3rd decade.  Many (myself included) had great hopes that it was coming true when Klinny was hired.  It has not come to fruition.  It was said 10 years ago, and it is not true today.  Many of our better athletes are now playing soccer earlier, but under the current regime I don't think we're progressing to the elite level.

I'll still root for the USA with all I have, but I've tempered my expectations.  You can take your worthless comment elsewhere.
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Lets assume that on day 1 of the JK regime, (July 29th, 2011) he was magically able to implement a 100% perfect system of player development in the United States. Elite youth coaching, perfect regiment of individual skill development, nation-wide homogeneous style of team-play that plays to all the physical and mental strengths of the US soccer athlete pool, etc

If by some miracle of the sports gods, that scenario could actually play out, we MIGHT have a chance of developing a team capable of legitimately competing for a world cup by 2030 (assuming the crop of 2011 Seven year olds developed properly and happened to be blessed with enough natural physical ability to get us there)

We've been doing it wrong for so long.  I can blame JK for his stupid managerial decisions but in reality, tonight's game was lost 18 years ago when 10 year old Messi was getting world class coaching at La Masia and our guys were kicking it around a cow pasture biding time until post-game orange slices.

 
encaitar said:
If the US is serious about developing its youth soccer potential stars it has to go away from the college development system.  We absolutely need to go to a soccer academy system similar to the rest of the world.  It works in the US and Canada in hockey.  Why not soccer?
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The US started this process back in roughly 2009.   Most of the MLS players now come through academies and not through the college system.  The number of home grown players increases every year.

But this stuff takes time to make a difference especially coming from where we have started from.  We might not see any real fruits of this for another 15 years and even then it will be small because other countries at our level are also going to be improving themselves.

 
Premier said:
I don't understand how making the semis of a major tournament (and playing well in the first 4 games) and then getting outclassed by maybe the best team in the world and one of if not the best players ever isn't good enough for some of you.

Your expectations are entirely and laughably out of whack. 
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Well said. 

Would have loved a better showing, but Argentina paying 1 to 2 for this match was absurd... Different league. 

that said I really enjoyed watching us play so far this tourney... And I really look forward to Saturday. We aren't making huge strides.. But we are making strides and we have some solid young guys in this program. 

But I'm a relative noob who knows jack ####, so that's worth about .01

 
TripItUp said:
@JasonLaCanfora "Pulisic needs to replace Bradley in this lineup ASAP as the supposed central attacking midfielder.  Let him cut his teeth with Jones"
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I have to say that the amount of poor games Bradley puts in has to make JK question whether he should be an automatic choice any more.  It is hard for JK to move away from players he likes but you can't consistently have so many bad games as Bradley has had and still have your spot waiting for you.

 
encaitar said:
If the US is serious about developing its youth soccer potential stars it has to go away from the college development system.  We absolutely need to go to a soccer academy system similar to the rest of the world.  It works in the US and Canada in hockey.  Why not soccer?
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College can work, if they didn't have stupid restrictions one how often they can train. Remove those, extend the season and they're playing 9-10 months out of the year instead of 3 

 
NewlyRetired said:
The US started this process back in roughly 2009.   Most of the MLS players now come through academies and not through the college system.  The number of home grown players increases every year.

But this stuff takes time to make a difference especially coming from where we have started from.  We might not see any real fruits of this for another 15 years and even then it will be small because other countries at our level are also going to be improving themselves.
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Yeah, we've started it and it is helping some.  We just need to increase it greatly.  Every 50,000+ town in the northern middle/east US and across Canada seems to have some level of junior hockey team.  We need that coverage across the US for soccer and I'm hoping for the day that we do.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I have to say that the amount of poor games Bradley puts in has to make JK question whether he should be an automatic choice any more.  It is hard for JK to move away from players he likes but you can't consistently have so many bad games as Bradley has had and still have your spot waiting for you.
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He was especially bad today because he was pushed up ahead of Becks instead of his better #6 role. Klinny strikes again 

 
NewlyRetired said:
I have to say that the amount of poor games Bradley puts in has to make JK question whether he should be an automatic choice any more.  It is hard for JK to move away from players he likes but you can't consistently have so many bad games as Bradley has had and still have your spot waiting for you.
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I remember in 2014 thinking "well at least we have this guy". It blows me away how bad he is now. Did coming to MLS just erode his game? Is that even possible?

 
Premier said:
I don't understand how making the semis of a major tournament (and playing well in the first 4 games) and then getting outclassed by maybe the best team in the world and one of if not the best players ever isn't good enough for some of you.

Your expectations are entirely and laughably out of whack. 
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The US got outclassed by both Argentina and Columbia, despite what JK would have you believe. If they draw Chile in the third place game, they will get outclassed by them as well. 

I think most people had a reasonable expectation that the US would have at least one shot on goal in this game and that didn't even come close to happening. It was just a pathetic showing all around by even the lowest standard. 

 
I don't know how to judge the 3rd place game.  I hope the players get up for it.

If we lose the 3rd place game, our record will end up 3 wins and 3 losses, while playing at home.  Not horrible, but hardly earth shaking good either.

But I also realize this is not a game JK should treat as a must win.  This should be a game to start getting ready for the fall qualifiers.  The job is not yet done to get to the Hex and we can't afford any stupid mistakes.

 
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TwinTurbo said:
The US got outclassed by both Argentina and Columbia, despite what JK would have you believe. If they draw Chile in the third place game, they will get outclassed by them as well. 

I think most people had a reasonable expectation that the US would have at least one shot on goal in this game and that didn't even come close to happening. It was just a pathetic showing all around by even the lowest standard. 
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They had a decent run of play against Colombia. They were the better team but the US wasn't embarrassed. Tonight they ran into a buzz saw and started a crap lineup. Doesn't remove the previous 4 games.

I guarantee you if 3 months ago somebody told a US fan they would make the semis of this tourney and get smoked by Argentina they would take it. 

 
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This has probably been discussed before but I'll add my :2cents:

To me the MLS is counter intuitive to developing the U.S. soccer program.  Looking at the rooster it seems about 60% of the players play in the MLS, and only a few in the elite Euro leagues.  using MLS as a minor league system, or as an old age landing spot is fine, but any player on the team who is playing in the MLS in their prime is doing ti wrong. 

If they aren't in Serie A, the Bundesliga, the Premiership, La Liga, whatever Portugal calls their league, or whatever the Brazilians and Argentines call theirs then it's a fail.  I don't see how USA soccer doesn't develop relationship with the South America leagues or the second division Euro leagues to take their 21-year-old players.  I think the athletes are here, but the competition isn't and it is evident anytime USA soccer has an important game. 

I pretty much only follow Serie A, and the European Championship events so it's possible I'm talking out of turn here, but the MLS is a slow and uninteresting league that reminds me of Serie C in Italy on a good day.  I mean the league is fine, it has a following, and even Detroit is getting a team.  But I don't want to see any of the USA soccer guys in this league until they are over 30, until then...we are destined to get smashed by superior competition and Ghana. 

 
Premier said:
I remember in 2014 thinking "well at least we have this guy". It blows me away how bad he is now. Did coming to MLS just erode his game? Is that even possible?
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As Gator said, his worst games seem to coincide with him playing further up the field.  I don't think that can be blamed on MLS but who knows.  Even at Dempsey's advanced age, he hardly looks like MLS has slowed him down much.  There are so many variables that go into this.

People forget that one of the reasons Bradley came to MLS (outside of the massive salary increase) was that he lost his spot in Italy.  Perhaps this erosion started at that point.

I don't know how or why but I think it is fair to say he should not be a first choice no questions asked starter any more.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
This has probably been discussed before but I'll add my :2cents:

To me the MLS is counter intuitive to developing the U.S. soccer program.  Looking at the rooster it seems about 60% of the players play in the MLS, and only a few in the elite Euro leagues.  using MLS as a minor league system, or as an old age landing spot is fine, but any player on the team who is playing in the MLS in their prime is doing ti wrong. 

If they aren't in Serie A, the Bundesliga, the Premiership, La Liga, whatever Portugal calls their league, or whatever the Brazilians and Argentines call theirs then it's a fail.  I don't see how USA soccer doesn't develop relationship with the South America leagues or the second division Euro leagues to take their 21-year-old players.  I think the athletes are here, but the competition isn't and it is evident anytime USA soccer has an important game. 

I pretty much only follow Serie A, and the European Championship events so it's possible I'm talking out of turn here, but the MLS is a slow and uninteresting league that reminds me of Serie C in Italy on a good day.  I mean the league is fine, it has a following, and even Detroit is getting a team.  But I don't want to see any of the USA soccer guys in this league until they are over 30, until then...we are destined to get smashed by superior competition and Ghana. 
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I find MLS impossible to watch. Sucks late in the summer when that's the only soccer option. I just can't do it. I even tried to get into the Orlando team and it's awful. 

 
Why would anyone in their right mind follow only Serie A? That's what I put on tv for my weekend nap if the PGA gets too exciting.

 
NewlyRetired said:
As Gator said, his worst games seem to coincide with him playing further up the field.  I don't think that can be blamed on MLS but who knows.  Even at Dempsey's advanced age, he hardly looks like MLS has slowed him down much.  There are so many variables that go into this.

People forget that one of the reasons Bradley came to MLS (outside of the massive salary increase) was that he lost his spot in Italy.  Perhaps this erosion started at that point.

I don't know how or why but I think it is fair to say he should not be a first choice no questions asked starter any more.
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Small sample size since I don't see his MLS games, but even his set pieces seem worse. Just terrible all around. 

 
Oh good, time for our regularly scheduled MLS bashing by people who have no interest or knowledge of the league.  Always a welcomed read in the thread :(

 
NewlyRetired said:
Oh good, time for our regularly scheduled MLS bashing by people who have no interest or knowledge of the league.  Always a welcomed read in the thread :(
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Oh settle down. Two people were having a conversation. I don't care what league you or anybody else watches. 

 
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NewlyRetired said:
Oh good, time for our regularly scheduled MLS bashing by people who have no interest or knowledge of the league.  Always a welcomed read in the thread :(
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LOL.  True, but even the South American leagues(which are at least on par with MLS if not better) lose their best players to European football.  

However, we just don't have the talent for it yet.  If we did, they'd be playing European football.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
To me the MLS is counter intuitive to developing the U.S. soccer program.  Looking at the rooster it seems about 60% of the players play in the MLS, and only a few in the elite Euro leagues.  using MLS as a minor league system, or as an old age landing spot is fine, but any player on the team who is playing in the MLS in their prime is doing ti wrong. 
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We only have a few in the elite leagues because we only have a few players good enough for the elite leagues.  Where do you expect players to play if they are not wanted by the best leagues?

 
Eephus said:
With a few notable exceptions, the US wasn't out-athleticed tonight.  I think the US can produce players with better skills and awareness but so can other countries.  Everybody is improving but only half improve relative to the world.  That's the area where the US hasn't improved for a decade.

World soccer is a game of strata.  The top tier is established and aside from the occasional comet, don't change quickly.  Today's result showed how far away we are from the top.    September will show how far from Trinidad & Tobago.
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A friend said the Argentine defenders had better foot skills than our front guys. I think that will change in the coming decade

 
bentley said:
Why would anyone in their right mind follow only Serie A? That's what I put on tv for my weekend nap if the PGA gets too exciting.
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I had SSC Napoli season tickets and family in Italy, I love Serie A.  It's strategic soccer, just like how Italy plays in tournaments, so it's an acquired taste.  Bundesliga is completely different with very aggressive and wide open play, I like that also.  Can't get into the Premiership as I have no rooting interest, and I also hate the dumb British fans.   It's like a whole country of Boston fans, it's terrible.  I hope they all lose. 

 
encaitar said:
LOL.  True, but even the South American leagues(which are at least on par with MLS if not better) lose their best players to European football.  

However, we just don't have the talent for it yet.  If we did, they'd be playing European football.
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exactly.  When we have players who are good enough to go, the vast majority go.  We just don't have a lot of them.

Of course what the MLS bashers fail to acknowledge is that just going to Europe is not a cure all.  We have historically had a ton of players go to Europe and not succeed, rotting on benches or not even making the benches.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
The MLS isn't even better than the professional lacrosse league, or the Baltimore bocce ball league. 
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Not arguing that. Just saying that in addition to having way less skill than EPL, La Liga and Bundesliga, the style of play in Serie A is so dreadfully boring that I would rather watch MLS.

 
The MLS is not the path for the US to develop a great soccer program.  It's not "bashing the MLS", it's the facts.  The players for Argentina are elite professionals.  Players that play in the MLS are not.

The two players I'm most excited about for the USA's future are Wood and Pulisic and both are playing in Germany.  You don't want them playing in the MLS because then they can't get better.  How can you ever expect to beat Argentina if all of your attacking players spend their careers playing in an extremely inferior league?  The answer is that you can't. 

The MLS is a poor league, that shouldn't even be a question or cause anyone to get upset.  

For the US to succeed, more players need to go to Europe and play, and the goal would eventually be to have zero players inthe USMNT starting lineup that play in the MLS.

 
SlimShady said:
Backs up what I'm seeing here
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I'm happy to see Liverpool taking the lead in this.  The US has far more overall athletic talent than England and could conceivably be a huge source of talent for English teams.

From the US perspective, who do you want developing kids?  European giants that understand how to develop them and have been doing it for 100 years or the Columbus Crew???  It's a no-brainer.

 
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Re: development 

this was just brought up recently about how US Soccer doesn't send any money to development academies for player transfers.  So when Yedlin gets transfered to the other London club, Seattle and MLS keep 100% of the transfer fee(not up to them) when some should be going to his academy team. 

This is a joke and shows US Soccer still doesn't take development seriously. With player income going to academies, club fees can be reduced, better equipment  bought and better coaching paid for. 

But MLS(not their rule) needs more money 

 
I have seriously got to stop hitting the quote button.

I love you doctor d but that post is straight awful. The MLS is counter-intuitive to the national program? Portugal's league? That is Stephen A. Smith level stuff. 

 
Moe. said:
I have seriously got to stop hitting the quote button.

I love you doctor d but that post is straight awful. The MLS is counter-intuitive to the national program? Portugal's league? That is Stephen A. Smith level stuff. 
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I'm right though, aren't I?  The Portuguese league is called MLS East, no one watches that either. 

 
Skipped a bit so sorry if this has been addressed, but it amazes me that after watching Messi, people still think the problem is that the best "athletes" aren't playing soccer.  This isn't basketball or football(hehe), you can't over power soccer, and Americans can't understand this.  It's there or it isn't.  It can nurtured, but it can't be created, and Americans can't nurture it.

 
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