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US Men's National Team (11 Viewers)

The US needs to remember this for the future.  You have a one goal lead in stoppage time... everyone pretend to be hurt for 2 minutes at a time.  Game over.

 
soccer noob here, but i'll never understand why they don't stop the clock.   At least in the last 5 minutes.   it would cut out so much nonsense.

 
NutterButter said:
soccer noob here, but i'll never understand why they don't stop the clock.   At least in the last 5 minutes.   it would cut out so much nonsense.
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They're supposed to - but the official time is only known by the head ref.  So the timer you see on the screen is just a running clock - not an accurate reflection of the remaining time.

 
Better effort than first run in with Columbia - I really like Pulisic linking with Wood - things looked like they could get dangerous. Need to find the time to play them together and near each other to see what can happen

 
dparker713 said:
They're supposed to - but the official time is only known by the head ref.  So the timer you see on the screen is just a running clock - not an accurate reflection of the remaining time.
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Why can't it work like basketball or american football where the clock is stopped when there's a whistle and started when the ball is put in play?  Take the ref out of the role as clock manager.  So much nonsense at the end the way it is.

 
NutterButter said:
Why can't it work like basketball or american football where the clock is stopped when there's a whistle and started when the ball is put in play?  Take the ref out of the role as clock manager.  So much nonsense at the end the way it is.
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And make the goals bigger and get rid of offsides and have our best athletes playing soccer, imo. 

 
Will JK ever realize that some offensive threat helps the defense? Am I the only one that's tired of watching 70+ minutes of hoping for a goal instead of playng for a goal.

 
Does anyone coach?  If so what can be done to help Yedlin make a cross?  

His inaccuracy on crossing drives me nuts because he does everything right up until he hits the cross.

I am almost wondering if he is too fast for his own good.  He is so open on many crosses because of his speed that I wish he would just take a breath and hit an accurate cross instead of trying to do so at such a high speed.

 
So over all record ends up 3 wins, 3 losses, with a negative 1 goal differential.

The competition was very good but we were also playing at home.

So much mixed quality to consider over the tournament.  

Plenty of good things and plenty of bad (for both players and coaching staff).

My only real disappointment as a fan was not getting to see Nagbe and Pulisic get extended minutes (60+) in one game together.

Hopefully this is the last go around for Beckerman, Wondo and Orozco.

I am very interested to see how Jozy is integrated into this setup.

Lets hope Pulisic and Wood can find some more playing time in the Bundesliga this season.

 
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Some fun with numbers (mostly meaningless of course but still fun)

==============================

The US played better in Saturday's third-place game, which first presented and then crystalized as a 1-0 loss to Colombia, than they did in the tournament-opening 2-0 loss. And they certainly played better than in the 4-0 semifinal humiliation at the feet of Argentina, which was the most comprehensive beat-down I've ever seen the US take in an official competition.

In between there were three other games: A 4-0 demolition of Costa Rica; a 1-0 win over Paraguay; and an engaging, hard-fought and gratifying 2-1 win over a very good Ecuador team. By any measure, I really do think that this was the finest month of Jurgen Klinsmann's nearly five-year tenure -- memories of last summer's failure at the Gold Cup, and the subsequent 3-2 loss to Mexico in the CONCACAF Cup are long gone for most fans.

The US squad, which played a flat 4-4-2 against Colombia in this one, no longer seems like it's on the verge of collapsing in upon itself as they did last summer, and as they did in March at Guatemala in a World Cup qualifier. At the same time, however, this tournament only reaffirmed the gap between the US and the world's best teams, rather than going any distance toward closing it.

To that point: Under Klinsmann the US are now 0-5-1 in official competitions (non-friendlies) against teams ranked in the top 10 of the Elo Ratings. Under the previous three coaches combined, the US were 5-15-1, including wins over the likes of Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Spain and Portugal.

Given the sample sizes, this could be just a run of bad luck. But I don't think it is, and the underlying numbers explain why:

  • Steve Sampson’s teams played 450 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the lead for 21.1% of the time
  • Bruce Arena’s teams played 810 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the led for 22.2% of the time
  • Bob Bradley’s teams played 720 minutes vs. teams in the Elo top 10, held the lead for 25.5% of the time
  • Jurgen Klinsmann’s teams have played 570 mins vs. teams in the Elo top 10, and have held the lead for 1.6% of the time
That translates to holding the lead for nine minutes of action, which came from minutes 81-90 in the World Cup group stage against Portugal. Since that game -- which ended in a 2-2 draw -- the US have scored one goal (Julian Green's volley) in 480 minutes of action against Elo top 10 squads.

So it's not just that they're getting beat, it's that they're not as competitive as they used to be.

It extends out past the Elo top 10 to the Elo top 20 as well. Sampson took nine of the 33 points available to his team against top 20 squads in official competitions; Arena 17 of 45; Bradley 10 of 36. Klinsmann is now at 8 out of 30 points, which is the lowest percentage of the group despite fully 60% of his team's games against Elo top 20 squads coming at home -- most out of any coach in modern US history.

The good news? Six of Klinsmann's eight points vs. top 20 teams came in this tournament when they smashed Costa Rica (ranked 20th at the time, now 33rd), and then the win over Ecuador (14th, now 15th). By any measure, those were good wins. Performances and results like what the US got in those two games will be enough to get them into the 2018 World Cup.

But it's fair to question whether the US have gained any ground against Klinsmann's stated goal: Making the group compete "eye to eye" with the world's elite.

Under each of the previous three coaches, doing so was a regular occurrence. For the current regime, it seems only like a talking point.

 
NutterButter said:
Why can't it work like basketball or american football where the clock is stopped when there's a whistle and started when the ball is put in play?  Take the ref out of the role as clock manager.  So much nonsense at the end the way it is.
Click to expand...
How does this matter?  Neither way is demonstrably better.  You know generally when the game is going to end.  

 
dparker713 said:
How does this matter?  Neither way is demonstrably better.  You know generally when the game is going to end.  
Click to expand...
I'd rather watch soccer players writhe on the turf in simulated pain than three basketball refs checking monitors to see how many tenths to put on the clock. 

 
ffldrew said:
Better effort than first run in with Columbia - I really like Pulisic linking with Wood - things looked like they could get dangerous. Need to find the time to play them together and near each other to see what can happen
Click to expand...
They may have appeared better but the result was still the same. They only managed two shots on goal and no goals. Exact same result as the first game. You can't expect much of a result if your team only manages two shots on target per game. Or zero against Argentina.

 
For those of you displeased with 4th place, go back to the newbie thread...tia.

My overall thoughts on the tourney.

-JK is too dumb to get lineup decisions consistently right...the start Wondo decision was epically bad, I wish we would can him.  I just don't like him as a coach or person.

-JK doesn't like Nagbe, could be a Landon type thing

-Lots of positives to take away here, Pulisic/Brooks/Wood/Yedlin/Cameron/Deuce

-Negatives are Bradley/Bradley/Bradley/Bradley

-I like Howard more in goal, just more of a gamer than Guzan and more natural ability

 
TripItUp said:
For those of you displeased with 4th place, go back to the newbie thread...tia.

My overall thoughts on the tourney.

-JK is too dumb to get lineup decisions consistently right...the start Wondo decision was epically bad, I wish we would can him.  I just don't like him as a coach or person.

-JK doesn't like Nagbe, could be a Landon type thing

-Lots of positives to take away here, Pulisic/Brooks/Wood/Yedlin/Cameron/Deuce

-Negatives are Bradley/Bradley/Bradley/Bradley

-I like Howard more in goal, just more of a gamer than Guzan and more natural ability
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Agree 1000% on all counts.

 
I can't put Yedlin in the "positive take away" category. He's got a role on the team, but I'm not confident it's as the starting fullback. 

I enjoyed the tournament. The win against Ecuador was a great moment. I hate that as of last night were still heavily depending on guys who most likely won't (or shouldn't) be with us in Russia. Jones for example was one of the best US players last night. 

 
Eephus said:
I'd rather watch soccer players writhe on the turf in simulated pain than three basketball refs checking monitors to see how many tenths to put on the clock. 
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Totally disagree. The basketball stuff is annoying and ridiculous but at least the goal is to get the play right. Soccer players faking/embellishing injuries are cheating in order to artificially shorten the game. Its a joke and it could be totally fixed in an instant. 

 
This is as complimentary a press conference that I have ever seen from JK.  He might be pouring it on a little thick but at least he seems very pleased with the team.

===================================

From ESPN:

Jurgen Klinsmann: United States players 'deserve a huge, huge compliment'

GLENDALE, Ariz. -- The United States fell 1-0 to Colombia in the third-place match of the Copa America Centenario, but that didn't stop manager Jurgen Klinsmann from hailing his team's performance in this game and the tournament.

The Americans looked much improved from their opening match of the Copa America Centenario, when they fell to Colombia 2-0. The U.S. attack looked much more fluid from the run of play, while the defense -- playing without injured starters Fabian Johnson and John Brooks -- bent but was breached only once.

"I gave the whole team a huge compliment in the locker room," Klinsmann said. "After six weeks being on the road, to pull out a performance like that in a meaningless third-place game in a certain way, I think they deserve a huge, huge compliment.

"Every one of them, the whole team over this entire stretch of time, has kind of grown together, has given each other so much support. It's really fun to watch this team grow. Did we want to win this game? Yes, absolutely, but I think the performance was a wonderful performance.

"I think throughout the tournament, you saw so many good pieces, so many things that make us optimistic looking forward with this group. The back line today, whoever stepped in -- Matt Besler, Michael Orozco -- was outstanding.

"I don't think Geoff Cameron can play much better. DeAndre Yedlin going up and down. You can go through area by area, I think we gave Colombia a really good game, and even Jose Pekerman said after the game, 'Wow, you guys are growing. You guys are getting really stronger.'"

The best chance for the U.S. came in the 51st minute, but Clint Dempsey's free kick was superbly saved by Colombia keeper David Ospina. Bobby Wood later hit the post with another drive, but otherwise, the U.S. forced Ospina to make only one other save.

Colombia created its share of chances, with Carlos Bacca's 31st-minute tally enough to separate the two sides.

"Ultimately, because they were clinical with their one chance in the first half and we were not that clinical, we hit the post or kind of had a couple of missteps right in front of goal," Klinsmann said. "But there were enough chances there to put one in, and the players know that."

Prior to the start of the tournament, Klinsmann said the team's goal was reaching the semifinals. That seemed overly ambitious, especially after the group stage loss to Colombia. The U.S. then recorded wins over Costa Rica, Paraguay and Ecuador.

The U.S. were ousted by a clearly superior Argentina side in the semifinals, but Klinsmann said that what pleased him most was the way some players on the roster grew as the tournament progressed.

"Every day you learn," he said. "You learn about every individual, about your group, about the chemistry, about so many little pieces. Every day is fascinating in our little world.

"Definitely you see players coming through start to bloom. If it's a Bobby Wood, a Yedlin, a John Brooks and others becoming stronger. It's fun to watch some older ones hanging in there like a Clint and Jermaine Jones battling there and having a real impact on these teams still.

"You learn about every individual. You feel for the ones that didn't get that many minutes in the tournament. But they know we are with them, and we help them wherever we can."

As for Saturday's game, Klinsmann said he was pleased with the commitment, aggressiveness, awareness on the field, tactical awareness and discipline "to be very compact and out of that compactness, then play their game going forward."

These are the concepts he has been trying to instill the past five years, and if they continue to develop in these areas, then the U.S. players "know that they can compete with these guys."

Now Klinsmann hopes his team gets another chance to play in this tournament again.

"For us, it was a huge opportunity, and I think we took it really well," he said. "The final four is a big deal, but there is a lot still to learn, and hopefully we can do that in every Copa America from now on."

Cameron echoed his manager's sentiments, pointing toward periods of play in which the U.S. laid siege to the Colombian goal.

"We didn't get played off the pitch tonight," the defender said. "If anything, I thought we dominated the game. I thought we had a lot of chances that we just didn't put in."
 
The NBA's lack of player discipline is kind of a joke.  In soccer if you nutsacked guys three times in 10 appearances you'd probably sit for six months.  And one would get you an automatic three games -- regardless of whether it happened in the knockout stages of the World Cup or not.

Also, waaaaaay too much down time.  48 minutes of action in ~140 minutes is just over 1/3rd. Impossible to watch.  They need to go to two 24 minute halves, cut the number of timeouts in half and put a 5-second clock on restarts in dead ball situations like free throws and in-bounds and the like.

 
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dparker713 said:
NutterButter said:
Why can't it work like basketball or american football where the clock is stopped when there's a whistle and started when the ball is put in play?  Take the ref out of the role as clock manager.  So much nonsense at the end the way it is.
Click to expand...
How does this matter?  Neither way is demonstrably better.  You know generally when the game is going to end.  
Click to expand...
B/c right now, the ending of close games is a total circus.  You have multiple people in this thread commenting on it.  It certainly doesn't need to be that way.   And when there's 5 minutes of stoppage time and 2 minutes of that is lost b/c of theatrics, that's a pretty significant loss of time to me.    I'm just trying to understand the benefit of having the ref keep the clock.  It would be so trivial to just have a time keeper and then a lot of the theatrics as far as milking the clock goes away.   If its just the case of that's how its always been and soccer rarely makes rules adjustments like other sports frequently do, I'll drop it.

 
NutterButter said:
If its just the case of that's how its always been and soccer rarely makes rules adjustments like other sports frequently do, I'll drop it.
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As a long time fan I hate it as well.

But FIFA has not made a significant rule change since the early 90's so hoping for anything is kind of a waste of energy unfortunately.  

 
Eephus said:
Clock stoppages would undoubtedly beget commercial breaks so I vote for the status quo
Click to expand...
Point taken.   How about clock stoppages at the 40 minute mark just in the 2nd half?   Pulling that point in time out of my ####, but that seems a reasonable point when the theatrics seem to kick in for milking the clock.  Any injury time can also be added at that point as well which the ref communicates to the time keeper.    

 
I honestly don't understand the whole issue with the clock.  I guess I just always accepted it, and as a player never knew how much time was remaining, let alone how much extra time.  Best you could do is get the ref to tell you how much time was left - approximately.  

I know that now college teams - at least at the D1 level, use a clock that is stopped, and started, when there are delays, but when it reaches 0 or 90 (can't remember if it counts down or up) the game is over.  Personally I kind of like the ambiguity, and allowing the flow of the play to continue when a team is attacking at the end of the game.  

Plus, putting a clock out there wont stop the shenanigans - it would still end up wasting some time.  Its part of the character of the game - for better or worse.

 
Simple no clock stoppage solution

Trainer comes on = +2min stoppage time added

It should kill off a lot of shenanigans and add a better amount of time for players actually needing treatment.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I honestly don't understand the whole issue with the clock.  I guess I just always accepted it, and as a player never knew how much time was remaining, let alone how much extra time.  Best you could do is get the ref to tell you how much time was left - approximately.  

I know that now college teams - at least at the D1 level, use a clock that is stopped, and started, when there are delays, but when it reaches 0 or 90 (can't remember if it counts down or up) the game is over.  Personally I kind of like the ambiguity, and allowing the flow of the play to continue when a team is attacking at the end of the game.  

Plus, putting a clock out there wont stop the shenanigans - it would still end up wasting some time.  Its part of the character of the game - for better or worse.
Click to expand...
I find it odd when Americans complain about how time is kept in soccer.

The last 2 minutes of a basketball game takes 20 minutes.  And don't get me started on all of the wasted time in baseball.

 
It's funny. Ireland will surely be celebrating their Euro performance. Singing and dancing knowing they over achieved. Meanwhile we are bemoaning a 4th place finish. 4th place in a tournament with those teams is a huge overachievment for us. We need to accept our place as a mid major of sorts. Lets beat our rivals win our conference and hope celebrate the occasional upsets over the big boys.

 
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