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US Men's National Team (22 Viewers)

mr. furley said:
something i've wondered for a while.. how do clubs and international teams determine schedules? with all the regional tournaments, the WC, the club tourneys, champions league, etc.  

is it auto-release for tournaments like the Copa? do leagues suspend play for the duration of the tournament?  are the club games played during major international tournaments counted in the results?
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Yes

 
mr. furley said:
something i've wondered for a while.. how do clubs and international teams determine schedules? with all the regional tournaments, the WC, the club tourneys, champions league, etc.  

is it auto-release for tournaments like the Copa? do leagues suspend play for the duration of the tournament?  are the club games played during major international tournaments counted in the results?
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Most tournaments and qualifiers happen during scheduled international windows.  There are exceptions for leagues that have non-standard calendars like MLS and Iceland and for oddities like the African Cup of Nations.  AFCoN 2017 is going to take many of Africa's best players away from their clubs for up to a month beginning in mid-January.  It's gonna be awesome.

 
if hte US and T&T win their next games, they're both through... correct?

btw- I can't wait to see St V&G's home field. bet it has a catchy name, like Cap'n Jacks rum-shack. also bet there are canyon sized divots.

 
El Floppo said:
if hte US and T&T win their next games, they're both through... correct?

btw- I can't wait to see St V&G's home field. bet it has a catchy name, like Cap'n Jacks rum-shack. also bet there are canyon sized divots.
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Correct.  T&T plays at home making this a viable chance.

The stadium they play in is a cricket field.  Let me see if I can find a picture some where.....................

yeah this is going to be ugly. :(

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/30462110.jpg

 
GROOT said:
What happened to Aron Johannson guys?
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he has a severe nerve problem in his hip. 

The original diagnosis was a nerve irritation that would clear up in a couple of weeks on its own.

After that did not work, he had minor surgery that he was suppose to recover from in 4-5 weeks.  That surgery was in Oct of 2015.

Earlier this month Werder Bremen (his club team) announced that he had still not recovered and they expect that he will not only miss the preseason but some of the regular season as well for the 2016/2017 season.

 
The plot thickens ever so slightly  :popcorn:

Multiple reports have come out that Southgate has told the English FA he has no interest in the England job (I assume that is due to the interim title?)

JK's name continues to get bantered around by all sorts of media types in England.  

This article claims he is interested in the gig (note this is the English press, they could just have well said my mother was interested in coaching England so thin is the source material).

England job of interest to Jurgen Klinsmann say Sky sources

and this came out as well

England beckons Jurgen Klinsmann to take over national team

Even the English bookies have latched on, with oddsmaker  Ladbrokes  shortening Klinsmann to a 4½-to-1 second favorite and smartbets.com reporting that the German was the most-backed candidate with gamblers.

 
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This is some interesting work.

One guy on Big Soccer compiled all the US players ratings he could find for the Copa tournament, game by game, and also compiled an average (which he weighted based on minutes played.

Here is the data

=======================================================

Colombia - # 1Brooks- 6.0Dempsey- 5.8Guzan- 5.6Pulisic - 5.2Johnson - 5.2Nagbe- 5.0Cameron - 4.8Bedoya - 4.8Zardes - 4.7Wood - 4.6Yedlin - 4.5Jones - 4.5Zusi - 4.0Bradley - 3.8Costa Rica -Jones - 8.1Dempsey - 7.7Brooks - 7.3Zusi - 6.8Cameron - 6.7Wood - 6.7Johnson - 6.5Bradley - 6.4Bedoya - 6.3Guzan - 6.2Yedlin - 6.2Beckerman - 5.9Wondolowski - 5.6Zardes - 5.3Paraguay -Brooks - 8.8Guzan - 8.5Dempsey - 7.2Cameron - 6.8Jones - 6.7Bedoya - 6.5Zardes- 6.4Wood - 6.4Bradley - 6.0Zusi - 6.0Orozco - 5.6Johnson - 5.3Yedlin - 3.6Beckerman - NREcuador -Dempsey - 8.3Brooks - 7.8Guzan - 7.2Wood - 6.9Zardes - 6.8Cameron - 6.8Johnson - 6.6Besler - 6.3Zusi - 6.3Bradley - 6.0Beckerman - 5.9Bedoya - 5.8Jones - 5.1Birnbaum - NRArgentina -Zardes - 5.3Nagbe - 5.1Cameron - 5.0Pulisic - 4.9Yedlin - 4.9Brooks - 4.6Dempsey - 4.6Guzan - 4.5Johnson - 4.5Zusi - 4.2Birnbaum - 3.8Beckerman - 3.7Bradley - 3.2Wondolowski - 2.7Colombia - #2Dempsey - 6.6Howard - 6.5Cameron - 6.5Wood - 6.3Jones - 6.2Pulisic - 6.0Bedoya - 5.6Yedlin - 5.4Nagbe - 5.4Besler - 5.4Zardes - 5.3Bradley - 5.2Orozco - 3.1

================

Here's a consolidation of all 6 games (minute weighted):Brooks - 6.91Dempsey - 6.61Howard - 6.50Guzan - 6.39Jones - 6.30Wood - 6.24Cameron - 6.10Besler - 5.84Bedoya - 5.78Zardes - 5.64Johnson - 5.61Pulisic - 5.20Nagbe - 5.11Bradley - 5.08Yedlin - 5.07Zusi - 4.88Beckerman - 4.27Orozco - 3.86Birnbaum - 3.81Wondolowski - 3.31That's pretty close to how I'd rank it. Probably drop Guzan between Cameron and Besler. Switch Zusi and Bradley. Zardes should be a bit higher.Some other notes:I've tracked these since World Cup 2010 (110 matches), and we witnessed a few historic performances this Copa according to the ratings.Ratings above 8 are pretty rare (30 ever), and we got 4 of them.Jones' 8.07 vs. Costa Rica ranked 22nd of all ratings in the dataset.Dempsey's 8.25 vs. Ecuador ranks 14th.Guzan v. Paraguay got an 8.45. Personally, I see this a bit generous, but none the less, it ranks 8th.Brooks' 8.75 vs. Paraguay ranks as the 4th best performance since WC2010!!(#1 is Howard v. Belgium (9.40), #2 is Altidore @ Bosnia (9.21), #3 is Donovan v. Scotland (8.96)We also saw a few historic lows.Games below 3.5 are equally rare. I mean even Chandler in Honduras got a 3.6! Three performances ranked in the Top 10 worst of the JK plus last year of Bob's era.Bradley vs Argentina = 3.15. 6th lowest ever. Below Clark vs. Ghana, Onyewu v. A&B, the Bedoya DM game, Wondo sky games, etc., etc. It was historically bad. Personally I thought he was worse v. Colombia in the opener, but maybe that's cause I watched that one from midfield that night.One spot lower at 5th worst of all-time, we get Orozco's 3.07 against Colombia. This rating might be a bit harsh and emotional, but it is what is is. Reputation wasn't good coming in, but this performance only confirmed it.FYI, occupying the 4 & 3 spots are 2 performances in the "game that no one saw". Castillo at 3.07, and Brooks at 3.00 vs. Ukriane in Cyprus.Then we get to Wondo. He had zero credit (well actually negative credit) before the Argentina match. He could hardly have done more to prove everyone right. Overmatched, invisible, save a touch that would make Zardes blush, and a subsequent setup of that retired guy's moment. 2.69 is the 2nd lowest rating here.There's only one performance that can "best" it. It comes from perhaps the only player hated more than Wondo in USMNT history. Bornstein, of course. 2.41.

===============================

 
Did yedlin play that bad?  I know he struggled at times, but I don't remember any huge gaffs.  Of course I've slept/drank A LOT since then

 
I figure in the next couple of days we will get some sort of denial about JK and England that should put it to bed but until then I guess we still need to consider it.  

Here are the latest odds.  http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/england/next-permanent-manager

On one hand, England removes everything he dislikes about coaching the US.  The fans and media are educated, the league where all his players will come from is strong and the development system has been in place forever.

On the other hand, I do not believe that England will allow JK to spend all his spare time in Cali like he did when he coached Germany and I think he loves being close to his family.

What do guys think?  If England is interested does he at least kick the tires?  

 
wdcrob said:
Sure would.  So weird to have a GK back there that's wobbly in comparison to all the others for the last 20+ years.
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I hope, based on the Colombia game, that Howard might be considered still for WC 2018.  He was much more composed back there than Guzan was.

 
encaitar said:
I hope, based on the Colombia game, that Howard might be considered still for WC 2018.  He was much more composed back there than Guzan was.
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I think he will be.  JK very publicly wrote off an entire generation of keepers so I think it is Guzan and Howard through 2018.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I think he will be.  JK very publicly wrote off an entire generation of keepers so I think it is Guzan and Howard through 2018.
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I don't really blame him that much.  This generation of keepers leaves a lot to be desired.  Hopefully Horvath and Steffen ensure that the next generation continues the tradition of great goalkeepers for the US.

Howard is playing in the MLS now, so his competition won't be as strong, but he'll get every start.  Interested to see how that affects his form in the future.

 
encaitar said:
I don't really blame him that much.  This generation of keepers leaves a lot to be desired.  Hopefully Horvath and Steffen ensure that the next generation continues the tradition of great goalkeepers for the US.

Howard is playing in the MLS now, so his competition won't be as strong, but he'll get every start.  Interested to see how that affects his form in the future.
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http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/colorado-rapids-welcome-goalkeeper-tim-howard-but-is-he-an-upgrade-062916

 
encaitar said:
Howard is playing in the MLS now, so his competition won't be as strong, but he'll get every start.  Interested to see how that affects his form in the future.
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It is interesting to factor in how going to a lower league affects a keeper.   While the offensive players he faces should be less clinical in their shooting, you have to figure his own defenders will be less clinical in their ability to protect his goal from shots and crosses.  

I would think he would see roughly the same amount of chances but whether that has any effect one way or another on his over all quality is hard to say.

Even as a goalkeeper, his age is starting to get up there.  Nature itself might simply go to work here no matter where he is playing over the next few years.

 
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encaitar said:
I don't really blame him that much.  This generation of keepers leaves a lot to be desired. 
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In principle I agree.  I am unsure what coming out publicly and stating this so strongly buys him though.  Why not just keep those thoughts to himself and see how things play out? 

IMO, Hamid is clearly high enough quality but Hamid must look at the calendar and see when the next US camp is and plan his injuries to coincide with it.  That has to be very infuriating to a coach.

 
NewlyRetired said:
In principle I agree.  I am unsure what coming out publicly and stating this so strongly buys him though.  Why not just keep those thoughts to himself and see how things play out? 

IMO, Hamid is clearly high enough quality but Hamid must look at the calendar and see when the next US camp is and plan his injuries to coincide with it.  That has to be very infuriating to a coach.
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I agree with that.  Maybe he thought calling them out publicly would encourage them to work harder out of spite?  Who knows.  JK has does some really head scratching things in his time as coach, so it's hard to figure out his motivations.

Yeah, Hamid is the exception, although I don't see him as even being Guzan's equal in quality, much less reaching peak Howard or Keller/Freidel levels of keeping.  It would be nice to have him healthy for a tourney run though and give him a chance to impress in camp.

 
encaitar said:
I agree with that.  Maybe he thought calling them out publicly would encourage them to work harder out of spite?  Who knows.  JK has does some really head scratching things in his time as coach, so it's hard to figure out his motivations.

Yeah, Hamid is the exception, although I don't see him as even being Guzan's equal in quality, much less reaching peak Howard or Keller/Freidel levels of keeping.  It would be nice to have him healthy for a tourney run though and give him a chance to impress in camp.
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It's kind of odd for a national team coach to criticize a particular portion of his talent pool.  It's not like the chairman can release transfer funds to help shore up the lineup.

 
Eephus said:
It's kind of odd for a national team coach to criticize a particular portion of his talent pool.  It's not like the chairman can release transfer funds to help shore up the lineup.
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JK's public persona is the oddest* I have ever experienced in US Soccer.  So much of what he says is just head scratching a to why he would verbalize it and always seems to go against what one would think would make more sense if he just did not say anything. 

It is not that his thoughts are wrong per say, it is just that staying quiet sometimes would make a lot more sense.

* I should separate Bora here.  His ability to break into a different language and pretend he could not speak English, anytime a media person asked an even semi difficult question was hilarious.

 
Earnie Stewart's name has been popping up recently in this thread.  I just noticed he is going to be on the Men in Blazers show today at 5:20pm.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Maybe Spain will also go after him now that del Bosque is gone - a proper bidding war would be great.
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I have two questions related to this situation.

1) Why does the FA have to get permission just to talk to JK, assuming they even wanted to?  Does JK's contract state that he is not allowed to interview for any jobs?

2) In our American sports, on rare occasions when coaches switch jobs while still under contract, there is sometimes compensation.  Is there ever any compensation that occurs when a situation like this occurs in international soccer?

 
NewlyRetired said:
I have two questions related to this situation.

1) Why does the FA have to get permission just to talk to JK, assuming they even wanted to?  Does JK's contract state that he is not allowed to interview for any jobs?

2) In our American sports, on rare occasions when coaches switch jobs while still under contract, there is sometimes compensation.  Is there ever any compensation that occurs when a situation like this occurs in international soccer?
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He's under contract for a directly competing job - would seem to be a clear case of tortious interference.  

 
The US would be compensated for sure.  He'll likely have a release clause built into his contract for going taking another coaching gig.  Given his salary, I'm sure it'll be $5 million or more.

However, I don't think we're that lucky.  Even if he's the bookies favorite right now.

 
encaitar said:
The US would be compensated for sure.  He'll likely have a release clause built into his contract for going taking another coaching gig.  Given his salary, I'm sure it'll be $5 million or more.

However, I don't think we're that lucky.  Even if he's the bookies favorite right now.
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Let's not get greedy, someone taking JK off our hands should be compensation enough.

 
loving the JK hate. kinda like the Zardoz first touch schtick.

we've all had our problems with him- and he's still got issues with who, what and when with his subs- but given the arrangement and play of that group of players starting with the couple games before the CA and on through it- I can't remember the US being as competitive against quality opposition, this consistently, possibly ever. They had a nice two game stretch against Spain and Brazil in the COnfed and some good results in WC 02'... yeah- that WC run outshines this- but still... now that the right guys are starting in the right places and they're competitive as a unit... now's the time to get rid of him? ok.

 
El Floppo said:
I can't remember the US being as competitive against quality opposition, this consistently, possibly ever.
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I am not sure this is true although I will acknowledge that some of this is subjective so what I say below is only a part of the story using data.

JK's record is remarkably identical to Bradley and Arena.

JK's record has been a tiny bit better in friendlies where as Bradley's was a tiny bit better in official games.

JK's record against the top teams is quite a bit worse than Bradley, Arena and even Sampson.  The data was listed earlier in the thread and it is not pretty.  It is not just results, but a severe lack of goals and shots and being totally dominated.

I don't say this say any of this thinking he should be replaced but I also am wary of thinking the team has turned the corner because of some good results at home.  I will feel better if we see similar work on the road in the hex.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I am not sure this is true although I will acknowledge that some of this is subjective so what I say below is only a part of the story using data.

JK's record is remarkably identical to Bradley and Arena.

JK's record has been a tiny bit better in friendlies where as Bradley's was a tiny bit better in official games.

JK's record against the top teams is quite a bit worse than Bradley, Arena and even Sampson.  The data was listed earlier in the thread and it is not pretty.  It is not just results, but a severe lack of goals and shots and being totally dominated.

I don't say this say any of this thinking he should be replaced but I also am wary of thinking the team has turned the corner because of some good results at home.  I will feel better if we see similar work on the road in the hex.
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yeah... not a data or results thing for me- just how they've played in terms of being able to assert themselves and play toe-to-toe against quality opposition over a consistent stretch of games (and again- I viewed that first loss to COL as a positive in terms of how they played.... but yeah- the Arg game was the major hiccup in that run). purely subjective.

 
El Floppo said:
but btw- if he did bag the US to go to England- I'd look forward to really hating him. like- really, really hating.
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From a purely voyeuristic point of view, I find it fascinating.

This is almost the identical situation he has campaigned for his players.  Go some where where the quality is higher, the expectations are higher and pressure is higher.

It would be fascinating to see if one of the reasons he decides not to pursue it (assuming there is even any interest on England's side) would be that he wants to stay home and be close to his family in California, which ironically are the exact choices Landon made that obviously disgusted JK.

 
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@Football__Tweet: UEFA 'A' Coaches:

#ENG - 1,178
#GER - 5,500
#ESP - 12,720

Cost of Course:

#ENG - £5,600
#GER - €530
#ESP - €1,200

Change is needed.

Anyone know what the USA numbers are?

 
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