War in Israel (1 Viewer)

[(HULK)]

You cannot destroy a popular guerilla force with a conventional ground invasion. We tried it in Vietnam. We tried it in Afghanistan. Israel has tried it again and again over the last 80 years. They run away and then they come back.

It's not even remotely close to the same as Vietnam.

And they aren't just leaving and letting them have free reign again. It will be occupied, most likely, for the foreseeable future.

Agreed and the Israeli military is highly trained in guerrilla and urban warfare….been at it since 1948.

No joke, much better trained for this than the US Army.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Wanted to say thanks to Joe for keeping the thread open - I find myself agreeing with everybody in here saying traditional media is unwatchable and unreadable. That along with my long disdain for social media means I stay almost totally uninformed about basically everything. I live in a bubble and FBGs truly is where I get a good portion of my news. I'm not saying that's a good thing in general but it's a good thing for my mental health.

I believe it would be good for nearly everyone - limiting exposure to “the news”, not relying on a fantasy sports chat room.

And it’s not just “mainstream” media. I don’t think anyone’s life is being enriched with graphic written details, or worse, video of charred, dismembered bodies. Same goes for the protests. Even learning about the conflict’s history, or military strategy from well curated sources is of limited value for most of us.

While I certainly appreciate the information in this thread, sometimes, ignorance is truly bliss.

 

[unckeyherb]

As has been pointed out numerous times over the past week, 1400+ Israelis have been killed by Hamas terrorists, the equivalent of 15 9/11's.
By the same math, using the Palestinian estimated death toll (~3800), Gaza has had ~ 209 9/11's over the past two weeks.

War is awful.

Wait, what? I'm missing something here obviously. We lost just under 3k in 9/11

He is comparing percent of population of the U.S. to Israel.

Thats a really strange way to look at how many people were killed.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I believe it would be good for nearly everyone - limiting exposure to “the news”, not relying on a fantasy sports chat room.

And it’s not just “mainstream” media. I don’t think anyone’s life is being enriched with graphic written details, or worse, video of charred, dismembered bodies. Same goes for the protests. Even learning about the conflict’s history, or military strategy from well curated sources is of limited value for most of us.

While I certainly appreciate the information in this thread, sometimes, ignorance is truly bliss.

That's a good point. I started a new thread here https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/consuming-news-how-much-what-sources.810812/

 

[Joe Bryant]

Greek Orthodox Church Bombed in Gaza City - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/10/19/israel-war-hamas-gaza-live-updates/71237079007/

USA Today FWIW.

Also, I'll be honest, I didn't know there were Greek Orthodox churches in Gaza.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Wanted to say thanks to Joe for keeping the thread open - I find myself agreeing with everybody in here saying traditional media is unwatchable and unreadable. That along with my long disdain for social media means I stay almost totally uninformed about basically everything. I live in a bubble and FBGs truly is where I get a good portion of my news. I'm not saying that's a good thing in general but it's a good thing for my mental health.

I believe it would be good for nearly everyone - limiting exposure to “the news”, not relying on a fantasy sports chat room.

And it’s not just “mainstream” media. I don’t think anyone’s life is being enriched with graphic written details, or worse, video of charred, dismembered bodies. Same goes for the protests. Even learning about the conflict’s history, or military strategy from well curated sources is of limited value for most of us.

While I certainly appreciate the information in this thread, sometimes, ignorance is truly bliss.

FWIW - there are a lot of smart people in here. Information usually is more current and people work with each other to confirm news. One of my regrets is not learning more history while growing up. I really appreciate learning history now during our international travels and certainly appreciate the historical perspectives in here. Thanks to @Joe Bryant for allowing this thread with some occasional attempts to keep it on track.

 

[beer 30]

I simply do not understand what this ground offensive in Gaza is going to achieve. The only answer that’s given is “to destroy Hamas”. OK but how does a ground invasion achieve that? How will the Israelis distinguish members of Hamas from other Palestinians? Maybe they will be wearing helpful little buttons?

From an earlier CNN article (I recall it since I posted it), I expect that one of the goals is to destroy the extensive tunnel network ...and whoever might be in it. As to distinguishing Hamas leadership, I have to think that Israel knows who they are and what they look like. Finding them might be a different and difficult matter.

My thoughts as well, destroy as much of the terrorist infrastructure as you can while you have the ability to do so. Hamas leadership is scattered to the four winds, or should be if they were smart. I know the Israeli's have posted a few high value targets they've taken off the board but the political leader of Hamas wasn't in country on October 7th and hasn't been since 2019, I'm guessing he didn't secret his way back for the final battle. Destroy as much of the tunnel infrastructure as you can, destroy weapons caches, destroy everything you can that allows Hamas to wage terroristic war on Israel and leave.

 

[Todem]

I simply do not understand what this ground offensive in Gaza is going to achieve. The only answer that’s given is “to destroy Hamas”. OK but how does a ground invasion achieve that? How will the Israelis distinguish members of Hamas from other Palestinians? Maybe they will be wearing helpful little buttons?

From an earlier CNN article (I recall it since I posted it), I expect that one of the goals is to destroy the extensive tunnel network ...and whoever might be in it. As to distinguishing Hamas leadership, I have to think that Israel knows who they are and what they look like. Finding them might be a different and difficult matter.

My thoughts as well, destroy as much of the terrorist infrastructure as you can while you have the ability to do so. Hamas leadership is scattered to the four winds, or should be if they were smart. I know the Israeli's have posted a few high value targets they've taken off the board but the political leader of Hamas wasn't in country on October 7th and hasn't been since 2019, I'm guessing he didn't secret his way back for the final battle. Destroy as much of the tunnel infrastructure as you can, destroy weapons caches, destroy everything you can that allows Hamas to wage terroristic war on Israel and leave.

I am pretty sure that is the plan…..and I am quite sure they will help rebuild Gaza as well.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I simply do not understand what this ground offensive in Gaza is going to achieve. The only answer that’s given is “to destroy Hamas”. OK but how does a ground invasion achieve that? How will the Israelis distinguish members of Hamas from other Palestinians? Maybe they will be wearing helpful little buttons?

From an earlier CNN article (I recall it since I posted it), I expect that one of the goals is to destroy the extensive tunnel network ...and whoever might be in it. As to distinguishing Hamas leadership, I have to think that Israel knows who they are and what they look like. Finding them might be a different and difficult matter.

My thoughts as well, destroy as much of the terrorist infrastructure as you can while you have the ability to do so. Hamas leadership is scattered to the four winds, or should be if they were smart. I know the Israeli's have posted a few high value targets they've taken off the board but the political leader of Hamas wasn't in country on October 7th and hasn't been since 2019, I'm guessing he didn't secret his way back for the final battle. Destroy as much of the tunnel infrastructure as you can, destroy weapons caches, destroy everything you can that allows Hamas to wage terroristic war on Israel and leave.

I am pretty sure that is the plan…..and I am quite sure they will help rebuild Gaza as well.

One would assume that the Israeli military has war-gamed a ground invasion of Gaza aimed at rooting out Hamas many, many times. I'm a little unhappy that they haven't been more explicit about what the endgame is here, but probably there is a menu of options sitting there in front of Netanyahu that he's either already selected from or will select from depending on how things go over the next couple of months. It's not like this is a situation that Israel never had any reason to contemplate before today.

 

[(HULK)]

Wanted to say thanks to Joe for keeping the thread open - I find myself agreeing with everybody in here saying traditional media is unwatchable and unreadable. That along with my long disdain for social media means I stay almost totally uninformed about basically everything. I live in a bubble and FBGs truly is where I get a good portion of my news. I'm not saying that's a good thing in general but it's a good thing for my mental health.

I believe it would be good for nearly everyone - limiting exposure to “the news”, not relying on a fantasy sports chat room.

And it’s not just “mainstream” media. I don’t think anyone’s life is being enriched with graphic written details, or worse, video of charred, dismembered bodies. Same goes for the protests. Even learning about the conflict’s history, or military strategy from well curated sources is of limited value for most of us.

While I certainly appreciate the information in this thread, sometimes, ignorance is truly bliss.

FWIW - there are a lot of smart people in here. Information usually is more current and people work with each other to confirm news. One of my regrets is not learning more history while growing up. I really appreciate learning history now during our international travels and certainly appreciate the historical perspectives in here. Thanks to @Joe Bryant for allowing this thread with some occasional attempts to keep it on track.

One thing I miss about the PSF, it really made it easy to get information from a variety of sources that I might not have encountered otherwise.

 

[BassNBrew]

I simply do not understand what this ground offensive in Gaza is going to achieve. The only answer that’s given is “to destroy Hamas”. OK but how does a ground invasion achieve that? How will the Israelis distinguish members of Hamas from other Palestinians? Maybe they will be wearing helpful little buttons?

From an earlier CNN article (I recall it since I posted it), I expect that one of the goals is to destroy the extensive tunnel network ...and whoever might be in it. As to distinguishing Hamas leadership, I have to think that Israel knows who they are and what they look like. Finding them might be a different and difficult matter.

My thoughts as well, destroy as much of the terrorist infrastructure as you can while you have the ability to do so. Hamas leadership is scattered to the four winds, or should be if they were smart. I know the Israeli's have posted a few high value targets they've taken off the board but the political leader of Hamas wasn't in country on October 7th and hasn't been since 2019, I'm guessing he didn't secret his way back for the final battle. Destroy as much of the tunnel infrastructure as you can, destroy weapons caches, destroy everything you can that allows Hamas to wage terroristic war on Israel and leave.

I am pretty sure that is the plan…..and I am quite sure they will help rebuild Gaza as well.

One would assume that the Israeli military has war-gamed a ground invasion of Gaza aimed at rooting out Hamas many, many times. I'm a little unhappy that they haven't been more explicit about what the endgame is here, but probably there is a menu of options sitting there in front of Netanyahu that he's either already selected from or will select from depending on how things go over the next couple of months. It's not like this is a situation that Israel never had any reason to contemplate before today.

Curious what the people who evacuated per Israeli orders are supposed to do? It's not like there are AirBnBs in South Gaza they can hang out at while they wait for Israel to do it's thing.

 

[Todem]

I simply do not understand what this ground offensive in Gaza is going to achieve. The only answer that’s given is “to destroy Hamas”. OK but how does a ground invasion achieve that? How will the Israelis distinguish members of Hamas from other Palestinians? Maybe they will be wearing helpful little buttons?

From an earlier CNN article (I recall it since I posted it), I expect that one of the goals is to destroy the extensive tunnel network ...and whoever might be in it. As to distinguishing Hamas leadership, I have to think that Israel knows who they are and what they look like. Finding them might be a different and difficult matter.

My thoughts as well, destroy as much of the terrorist infrastructure as you can while you have the ability to do so. Hamas leadership is scattered to the four winds, or should be if they were smart. I know the Israeli's have posted a few high value targets they've taken off the board but the political leader of Hamas wasn't in country on October 7th and hasn't been since 2019, I'm guessing he didn't secret his way back for the final battle. Destroy as much of the tunnel infrastructure as you can, destroy weapons caches, destroy everything you can that allows Hamas to wage terroristic war on Israel and leave.

I am pretty sure that is the plan…..and I am quite sure they will help rebuild Gaza as well.

One would assume that the Israeli military has war-gamed a ground invasion of Gaza aimed at rooting out Hamas many, many times. I'm a little unhappy that they haven't been more explicit about what the endgame is here, but probably there is a menu of options sitting there in front of Netanyahu that he's either already selected from or will select from depending on how things go over the next couple of months. It's not like this is a situation that Israel never had any reason to contemplate before today.

Curious what the people who evacuated per Israeli orders are supposed to do? It's not like there are AirBnBs in South Gaza they can hang out at while they wait for Israel to do it's thing.

That’s a great question for the 7 surrounding Arab nations who refuse to allow them in.

 

[(HULK)]

I simply do not understand what this ground offensive in Gaza is going to achieve. The only answer that’s given is “to destroy Hamas”. OK but how does a ground invasion achieve that? How will the Israelis distinguish members of Hamas from other Palestinians? Maybe they will be wearing helpful little buttons?

From an earlier CNN article (I recall it since I posted it), I expect that one of the goals is to destroy the extensive tunnel network ...and whoever might be in it. As to distinguishing Hamas leadership, I have to think that Israel knows who they are and what they look like. Finding them might be a different and difficult matter.

My thoughts as well, destroy as much of the terrorist infrastructure as you can while you have the ability to do so. Hamas leadership is scattered to the four winds, or should be if they were smart. I know the Israeli's have posted a few high value targets they've taken off the board but the political leader of Hamas wasn't in country on October 7th and hasn't been since 2019, I'm guessing he didn't secret his way back for the final battle. Destroy as much of the tunnel infrastructure as you can, destroy weapons caches, destroy everything you can that allows Hamas to wage terroristic war on Israel and leave.

I am pretty sure that is the plan…..and I am quite sure they will help rebuild Gaza as well.

One would assume that the Israeli military has war-gamed a ground invasion of Gaza aimed at rooting out Hamas many, many times. I'm a little unhappy that they haven't been more explicit about what the endgame is here, but probably there is a menu of options sitting there in front of Netanyahu that he's either already selected from or will select from depending on how things go over the next couple of months. It's not like this is a situation that Israel never had any reason to contemplate before today.

Curious what the people who evacuated per Israeli orders are supposed to do? It's not like there are AirBnBs in South Gaza they can hang out at while they wait for Israel to do it's thing.

Better to live in tents for a couple months than to be used as human shields. Certainly not ideal though.

 

[parasaurolophus]

These missing kid posters are just a trap and Muslim activists just can't help themselves. They see they are being filmed. No way they don't know that people are getting fired over this, yet they just hate these kids so much they just have to rip them down.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Greek Orthodox Church Bombed in Gaza City - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/10/19/israel-war-hamas-gaza-live-updates/71237079007/

USA Today FWIW.

Also, I'll be honest, I didn't know there were Greek Orthodox churches in Gaza.

Update?

 

[parasaurolophus]

""Video shows aftermath of the collapse of Gaza’s oldest church"​

Posting here now since one by one these headlines are being changed.

 

[Sand]

What are other countries (such as England, France, Germany, etc) doing regarding this conflict/war? What’s their reaction/response?
US always seems to be the country “stepping up” to maintain world order.

We are the largest and most powerful democracy on the planet.

It’s what we do.

We spend more on our military than the next 9 highest military spending countries COMBINED.

Of course we're always embroiled in the stuff.

Negatory. China is spending about 700B a year on their military, almost the same as the US. They just lie about it.

 

[cashman88]

If you're a Gaza family who does not support Hamas and wants to live in peace with Israel, what do you do right now? I think I'd take my family as far north as possible; refuse to move south when the Israeli army demands that we do so, and let the Israeli army detain us. I imagine being detained by the Israeli army would be a better fate than living in southern Gaza for the next year.

 

[Phil Elliott]

2 American hostages released by Hamas thru Qatar negotiations, being reported. Trey Yingst reporting. Were originally captured in Israel and brought to Gaza.
Two hostages reportedly released

 

[Joe Bryant]

Greek Orthodox Church Bombed in Gaza City - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/10/19/israel-war-hamas-gaza-live-updates/71237079007/

USA Today FWIW.

Also, I'll be honest, I didn't know there were Greek Orthodox churches in Gaza.

Update?

I don't have one. You're welcome to update if you have one.

 

[Joe Bryant]

2 American hostages released by Hamas thru Qatar negotiations, being reported. Trey Yingst reporting. Were originally captured in Israel and brought to Gaza.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Negatory. China is spending about 700B a year on their military, almost the same as the US. They just lie about it.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

 

[beer 30]

If you're a Gaza family who does not support Hamas and wants to live in peace with Israel, what do you do right now? I think I'd take my family as far north as possible; refuse to move south when the Israeli army demands that we do so, and let the Israeli army detain us. I imagine being detained by the Israeli army would be a better fate than living in southern Gaza for the next year.

How many families like that you think exist in Gaza?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

2 American hostages released by Hamas thru Qatar negotiations, being reported. Trey Yingst reporting. Were originally captured in Israel and brought to Gaza.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

Live updates: Israel-Hamas war rages as Gaza awaits aid in worsening conditions

Gaza's hospitals are facing collapse as aid at the Rafah crossing destined for the enclave could be delayed another day. Follow here for live news updates.

www.cnn.com

 

[thecatch]

Negatory. China is spending about 700B a year on their military, almost the same as the US. They just lie about it.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

Link for this one.

 

[cashman88]

If you're a Gaza family who does not support Hamas and wants to live in peace with Israel, what do you do right now? I think I'd take my family as far north as possible; refuse to move south when the Israeli army demands that we do so, and let the Israeli army detain us. I imagine being detained by the Israeli army would be a better fate than living in southern Gaza for the next year.

How many families like that you think exist in Gaza?

I have no idea. I've read polls linked in this thread that state 79% of people in Gaza support an armed resistance force, and others that state at least 50% of people in Gaza support Hamas. If there's 2M people in Gaza, then, based on those polls, there's at least 200K people that do not support armed resistance or Hamas.

 

[dschuler]

Negatory. China is spending about 700B a year on their military, almost the same as the US. They just lie about it.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

Not sure if this is what he meant to say but I’ve seen some data and heard firsthand from highly respected people that estimate $1 dollar spent in China is the same as between $10-15 in the US if not more, depending on the project. Cheap labor, far less entitlements, less red tape, better infrastructure, newer equipment, better logistics for part manufacturing. Go look up some Ted talks and YouTube videos of China building a train station in a day or repairing a road or bridge, it’s incredible.

 

[Sand]

Negatory. China is spending about 700B a year on their military, almost the same as the US. They just lie about it.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

China’s Defense Budget Is Much Bigger Than It Looks

The actual number could be more than double the current Western estimate.

foreignpolicy.com

Sorry - forgot to link.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Negatory. China is spending about 700B a year on their military, almost the same as the US. They just lie about it.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

China’s Defense Budget Is Much Bigger Than It Looks

The actual number could be more than double the current Western estimate.

foreignpolicy.com

Sorry - forgot to link.

Thank you GB.

 

[Sand]

Negatory. China is spending about 700B a year on their military, almost the same as the US. They just lie about it.

Thank you. Can you, and everyone, please post a link on news stories?

Not sure if this is what he meant to say but I’ve seen some data and heard firsthand from highly respected people that estimate $1 dollar spent in China is the same as between $10-15 in the US if not more, depending on the project. Cheap labor, far less entitlements, less red tape, better infrastructure, newer equipment, better logistics for part manufacturing. Go look up some Ted talks and YouTube videos of China building a train station in a day or repairing a road or bridge, it’s incredible.

They also give zero attention to safety, either personal or environmental. It's the reason they lead the world in rare earth production. That stuff is all over the place, but China is willing to go scorched earth to mine and refine it. So they dominate the market because they can do it cheaply.

 

[3C's]

Regarding the 2 American hostages: The two have been handed over to the Red Cross and are “on their way out,” the source familiar with negotiations said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/hamas-us-hostages-released-intl/index.html

 

[Big League Chew]

So the hamas leader guy hiding in Qatar that called for jihad on Friday the 13th. Why isn’t he being ousted?

 

[unckeyherb]

If you're a Gaza family who does not support Hamas and wants to live in peace with Israel, what do you do right now? I think I'd take my family as far north as possible; refuse to move south when the Israeli army demands that we do so, and let the Israeli army detain us. I imagine being detained by the Israeli army would be a better fate than living in southern Gaza for the next year.

They're in a ****ed situation, honestly. I posted a few pages back the amount of refugee application from Gaza to any adjacent Arabic country. The acceptance rate......ain't good.

 

[Big League Chew]

If you're a Gaza family who does not support Hamas and wants to live in peace with Israel, what do you do right now? I think I'd take my family as far north as possible; refuse to move south when the Israeli army demands that we do so, and let the Israeli army detain us. I imagine being detained by the Israeli army would be a better fate than living in southern Gaza for the next year.

They're in a ****ed situation, honestly. I posted a few pages back the amount of refugee application from Gaza to any adjacent Arabic country. The acceptance rate......ain't good.

I might have missed it but are they protesting in those countries to free Palestine ? Or just the Western allies

 

[Joe Bryant]

Regarding the 2 American hostages: The two have been handed over to the Red Cross and are “on their way out,” the source familiar with negotiations said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/hamas-us-hostages-released-intl/index.html

Thankful. Do we know why they were released? Hope for others?

 

[massraider]

Blue checkmarks on X are ‘superspreaders of misinformation’ about Israel-Hamas war

So much for promoting ‘citizen journalism’

www.theverge.com

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Regarding the 2 American hostages: The two have been handed over to the Red Cross and are “on their way out,” the source familiar with negotiations said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/hamas-us-hostages-released-intl/index.html

Thankful. Do we know why they were released? Hope for others?

The articles said Hamas claimed it was for “humanitarian” reasons and that the older woman was sick. Also mentioned to disprove Biden’s lies (quote, not political). Basically propaganda most likely.

 

[3C's]

Regarding the 2 American hostages: The two have been handed over to the Red Cross and are “on their way out,” the source familiar with negotiations said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/middleeast/hamas-us-hostages-released-intl/index.html

Thankful. Do we know why they were released? Hope for others?

Like Dr O said, humanitarian since the older lady has health concerns. Quite likely they're trying to make themselves look better and Israel worse following the events at the hospital.

No link available right now but the thought is that most of the hostages are still alive. If so I'd have to think they'll be used as pawns in the PR game.

 

[3C's]

Somewhat big from the technology sector.

Meta, Google quit tech summit after organizer accuses Israel of committing war crimes

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

this has been discussed quite a bit in the thread so sharing the link, apologies if someone else posted and I missed it, this thing moves fast

Palestinians Lack Faith in Biden, Two-State Solution

Ahead of Hamas' recent attack on Israel, most Palestinians distrusted Biden's ability to mediate peace, and support for a two-state solution dropped to 24%.

news.gallup.com

STORY HIGHLIGHTS​

• 84% of Palestinians have little to no trust in President Joe Biden to help negotiate peace
• 24% of Palestinians support a two-state solution, down from 59% in 2012
• Young Palestinians significantly less likely to believe in two states living side by side

75% no longer believe in a 2-state solution. 80% doubt the possibility of permanent peace

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

A couple of pieces from Times of Israel

UN says aid delivery into Gaza via Egypt should take place ‘in next day or so’

International body says it's in 'deep and advanced negotiations with all relevant sides' for aid to be taken across Rafah border crossing and into Strip

www.timesofisrael.com

“We are in deep and advanced negotiations with all relevant sides to ensure that an aid operation in Gaza starts as quickly as possible… a first delivery is due to start in the next day or so,” the UN humanitarian chief Martin Griffiths said, quoted by his spokesman Jens Laerke in Geneva. --said today (Friday)​

...​

Egyptian state-linked broadcaster Al Qahera News had initially said the Rafah crossing — the only potential route into Gaza — would open on Friday, but Cairo later said it needed more time to repair roads.​

​

and 42 mins ago.... (note the "no confirmation from IDF")

IDF denies Gaza aid groups’ claim that it urged evacuation of hospital, 5 schools

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

ETA: they changed the headline before I could get it posted... it did read "Aid groups in Gaza claim Israel urges evacuation of hospital, 5 schools; no confirmation from IDF"

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Blue checkmarks on X are ‘superspreaders of misinformation’ about Israel-Hamas war

So much for promoting ‘citizen journalism’

www.theverge.com

A New York Times reporter who came under fire last year for a praising Adolf Hitler in multiple resurfaced Facebook posts was rehired by the Gray Lady to cover the Israel-Palestine war.

But sure, tell me more about how Twitter randos are the real problem here.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The New York Times is hiring literal Hitler-loving Nazis to report on the war involving Israel, but @TrumpWon69420 is the one to keep your eyes on.

Edit: Seriously. The NYT, which used to be the absolute gold standard of US journalism, employs Nazis. When I describe these people as Nazis, I don't mean that they back the wrong side in Ukraine or hold verboten positions on mammalian biology. I mean they like Adolf Hitler and think he should have killed more Jews. The NYT is hiring those people now, without hyperbole.

Edit 2: "Hey, we all make mistakes. Maybe the NYT hired this guy and just didn't know that he announced to the world how much he loves Hitler. I mean, they can't be expected to know everything every employee has ever said." Nope, they knew he was a Nazi and hired him anyway with their eyes wide open:

A Times spokesperson defended the outlet’s decision to rehire Hijjy.

“We reviewed problematic social media posts by Mr. Hijjy when they first came to light in 2022 and took a variety of actions to ensure he understood our concerns and could adhere to our standards if he wished to do freelance work for us in the future,” the rep said.

Edit 3: Until five minutes ago, it was fashionable for people in certain circles to say things like "If you have ten people sitting a table talking to one Nazi, then you have eleven Nazis at the table." By that logic, the NYT is a Nazi newspaper. Sorry, but I don't make the rules.

 

[rockaction]

Edit: Seriously. The NYT, which used to be the absolute gold standard of US journalism, employs Nazis. When I describe these people as Nazis, I don't mean that they back the wrong side in Ukraine or hold verboten positions on mammalian biology. I mean they like Adolf Hitler and think he should have killed more Jews. The NYT is hiring those people now, without hyperbole.

Never met a Duranty they didn't like, really. The only thing I'd quibble with in your post is that they "used to be the absolute gold standard of US journalism." That seems iffy considering they reprinted Duranty's dispatches from the Soviet Union verbatim.

I'll take Twitter's chaos over the Gray Lady any day.

 

[Sand]

this has been discussed quite a bit in the thread so sharing the link, apologies if someone else posted and I missed it, this thing moves fast

Palestinians Lack Faith in Biden, Two-State Solution

Ahead of Hamas' recent attack on Israel, most Palestinians distrusted Biden's ability to mediate peace, and support for a two-state solution dropped to 24%.

news.gallup.com

STORY HIGHLIGHTS​

• 84% of Palestinians have little to no trust in President Joe Biden to help negotiate peace
• 24% of Palestinians support a two-state solution, down from 59% in 2012
• Young Palestinians significantly less likely to believe in two states living side by side

75% no longer believe in a 2-state solution. 80% doubt the possibility of permanent peace

What the 75% want is "from the river to the sea". What the 75% are going to get is a 0 state solution.

This is consistent with history - the Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution. They turned it down.

 

[massraider]

BBC admits mistakes in coverage of Gaza hospital blast; still won’t call Hamas terrorists

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

BBC admits their coverage was wrong

 

[The Z Machine]

the Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution. They turned it down.

Depends on the offer made though, right?

 

[Todem]

the Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution. They turned it down.

Depends on the offer made though, right?

Several times they we offered to live side by side….they never take it….and they never will.

 

[The Z Machine]

the Palestinians were offered a 2 state solution. They turned it down.

Depends on the offer made though, right?

Several times they we offered to live side by side….they never take it….and they never will.

If there were non-starters proposed like, no access to al-Aqsa or ceding east Jerusalem to Israel or accepting all the illegal settlements that have sprung up in the last 2 decades, I don't blame them for not taking the offer.

The right of return thing they should give up though IMO.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

If you're a Gaza family who does not support Hamas and wants to live in peace with Israel, what do you do right now? I think I'd take my family as far north as possible; refuse to move south when the Israeli army demands that we do so, and let the Israeli army detain us. I imagine being detained by the Israeli army would be a better fate than living in southern Gaza for the next year.

Keep in mind that if you're a Palestinian living in Gaza, there's a good chance that your ancestors came there after they were driven out of their homes during the Nakba ("Catastrophe"), which is how Palestinians refer to the 1948 Israeli War of Independence. So it's not just a matter of your family's short-term safety, there's also a strong political dimension around not abandoning the land yet again and thereby making it easier for it to be integrated into Israel.

Note: The history of the '48 war is complicated and contentious, and I'm not looking to litigate it here. But I don't think you can discuss the mindset of the Palestinians -- as well as the other Arab countries who are refusing to accept refugees -- without knowing the impact those events had on their collective psyches