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We can try.
I thought the same thing. But I don't think their goal is to win. I think their goal is to get Israel to strike back hard and make Israel look bad. I think they see more middle eastern countries normalizing relations with Israel, and see it as a risk that they will end up losing all their support. This was probably planned for a long time, but based on the timing I would guess that they are trying to throw a wrench into the Israel-Saudi Arabia negotiations. Basically they want the rest of the middle east on their side vs Israel, with no middle ground.
Can't there morons find joy in
They've been finding out for 75 years
Amen brother
Was there (Israel) in 2010. Never going backMy buddy picked a heck of a year to move his family to Tel Aviv because his wife got a job with the embassy
The problem is there really isn't an option C for Israel at this point. It is either A) Do nothing (well that is not going to happen) or B) go scorched earth on them. The end game for Hamas is to play the victim now and hope that someone else steps in militarily, which the Saudi's may just be their Huckleberries, with Iran quietly helping to finance.
Yeah, I play ball in a league at the local JCC so I'm on their email list. That's what they're saying as well (the hostage thing). They're basically daring Israel to come wipe them out.
I had not read your post when I wrote mine, I see we had similar emotions and thoughts about this.
So sad to read about the attacks this morning. I've seen it described as Israel's "Pearl Harbor," which seems apt. How could Israel not pick up on this? The massive attack against Israel is just a ginormous world event, I believe ...and I fear. After decades of tension, I always held out some hope that a measure of peace would prevail ...an uneasy truce. But this will set back Israeli-Palestinian relations for yet another generation. The misery of the Gaza Strip was bad already, so I can't imagine what life will be like over the days, weeks, and years to come. More immediately, the death toll is already climbing on both sides.
I don't understand how Hamas can think they can in any way "win" a war against Israel. They have to know that Israel's response will not be a measured response.
The UN won't necessarily back Israel here.
If this keeps up Gaza will eventually become a parking lot (being metaphorical mostly).
I agree with that characterization, but it's worth asking, with the benefit of 20 years' hindsight, did any of our responses to 9/11 make things better? Put aside for a moment your partisan beliefs -- whatever they may be -- or the need to assign blame and consider: Objectively speaking, what geopolitical situations are better today than they were on Sept. 10, 2001? I suppose if you're an Iraqi and you lived through all of the death and devastation of the war, your life is better today than it was under Saddam. But if you look at Afghanistan, the Middle East, and the US itself, it's really hard to argue that things are objectively better.
So sad to read about the attacks this morning. I've seen it described as Israel's "Pearl Harbor," which seems apt. How could Israel not pick up on this? The massive attack against Israel is just a ginormous world event, I believe ...and I fear. After decades of tension, I always held out some hope that a measure of peace would prevail ...an uneasy truce. But this will set back Israeli-Palestinian relations for yet another generation. The misery of the Gaza Strip was bad already, so I can't imagine what life will be like over the days, weeks, and years to come. More immediately, the death toll is already climbing on both sides.
I don't understand how Hamas can think they can in any way "win" a war against Israel. They have to know that Israel's response will not be a measured response.
I see no way IDF/IAF don't go ape-poop in the next few days/weeks. And I don't think it is political to say, selfishly, this is a lose-lose for America.
Either we fully back Israel, which creates openings for other chaos in the region (SA/Iran backing Hamas) - and maybe beyond (China striking while chaos reigns) - or we DON'T back Israel which leaves them open to other enemy states joining in and which will ultimately go very, very badly for us imo.
Hopefully I'm wrong and this turns out like the Russia coup a few weeks ago. I really really hope so.
There is no good answer.
This is pretty much the summary of the entire middle east and that's why it has never been a good idea for us to get involved in any of it. "The west" isn't going to fix anything they don't want fixed no matter how hard we try. "Hope to contain" is as good as we'll ever get over there.
But what's mind-boggling is that Hamas had to know this going in. Yet ...they did it anyway.
This simply isn't the mindset of the people in the middle east. Not singling you guys out, but comments from you both illustrate that point. Hamas has a genuine belief that "God" is on their side and they will prevail even through all the bloodshed. They aren't afraid to die, even a little bit. It's a tough belief to wrap one's head around but it's necessary in order to understand what is going on over there.
I was about to say something similar, but to be fair, it's probably impossible to discuss this topic without introducing all the ugliness that we tried to leave behind in the PSF.
