We are all victims (1 Viewer)

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Is this irony? I can never tell. Whining about being victimized while complaining about victimhood culture. Seriously man, its the internet. I once got banned from the r/soccer subreddit for making a fantastically funny joke about Bernd Leno.

I WILL AVENGE YOU!

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Dumbo for the singing crows, it was racist somehow. For Abraham Lincoln, being the man to end slavery in this country was not enough to absolve him of the sins of not doing more for native Americans during his presidency. A student group at U of Wisconsin led that movement.

OK so a student group in WI.

not to get too far in to the political weeds, but we have a very strong anti-education movement going in Wisconsin currently.

We also have this massive statue on Bascom Hill at UW, the crown jewel in the center of campus, where its stood for over 100 years. The statue was commissioned in recognition of Lincoln's Education Bill of Rights.

 

[the moops]

If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

We just had a poll and guess what? Lebron was not the greatest basketball player

Obviously I was being hyperbolic but touché.

Moops, I want to hate you so bad but god you’re too smart and witty.

Link?

I hope you are still unemployed you jerk face

 

[the moops]

Moops, I want to hate you so bad but god dammit you’re too smart and witty.

I did actually know deep down that we would be friends

 

[jobarules]

I agree with @Jayrod

Nobody wants to take accountability for their own actions anymore

Really? Nobody? Not one person including you and Jayrod take any accountability for your own actions anymore?

This is exactly the kind if nonsense I'm talking about. I'm obviously using hyperbole and you're taking me literally.

 

[Frostillicus]

If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

We just had a poll and guess what? Lebron was not the greatest basketball player

Obviously I was being hyperbolic but touché.

Moops, I want to hate you so bad but god you’re too smart and witty.

Link?

I hope you are still unemployed you jerk face

I am!

 

[timschochet]

My wife will be 7 years sober this December. Through my experiences because of her in AA and Al-anon, I have met many addicts. Are they victims? Some are. Are they responsible for what they’ve done? Some are. And many are both.

We live in a complex world. I don’t think there are set rules for any of this. It depends on the person and on the situation, always.

 

[the moops]

If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

We just had a poll and guess what? Lebron was not the greatest basketball player

Obviously I was being hyperbolic but touché.

Moops, I want to hate you so bad but god you’re too smart and witty.

Link?

I hope you are still unemployed you jerk face

I am!

as it should be

 

[Desert_Power]

People can't help themselves.

Bad decisions aren't their fault. Drug addicts, alcoholics, etc., all of them simply are victims of some higher up more powerful person that is pushing them to do the things they do.

I will never mention anyone's decisions as a reason for their problems again. No one is responsible for what happens to them because they are innocent victims always.

Never mind that my aunt (my mom's twin) was killed by her husband before he killed himself. Never mind that my mom runs a battered women's shelter and helps women who have made a life with violent men.

But hey, even daring to mention that someone's decisions could put them in a dangerous situation is a "bad look" and "victim blaming".

You all continue on with your victimhood society.

Seems like folks were going out of their way to respectfully disagree with your posts in that thread. Maybe I missed some getting deleted or something.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Here's my perspective:

If a person walks down a dark alleyway in a violent neighborhood in the middle of the night and gets assaulted, the assailant is 100% responsible for the damage that was done. But the victim bears responsibility for knowingly putting themselves at risk, or for being ignorant of the conditions to begin with. But WE (that is, the rest of us who are neither victim nor perpetrator in this situation) don't need to hold them responsible. They will bear the consequences of those actions regardless of whether the assailant is brought to justice.

Our (that is, society's) responsibility is to identify dangerous alleys, enact legislation to make them less dangerous, and educate our citizens about the realities of how to protect themselves from being a victim. Because we don't live in a world where everyone acts with 100% pure, ethical, and just intentions.

Nobody seems to have any problem asking if the car was locked on Facebook or nextdoor.

 

[Ilov80s]

My contribution is there is a difference between saying something is someone’s fault and saying they should have/could have done things differently. Also I find this odd because most of the victims of regular abuse (not counting a random attack or single date gone wrong) I know do blame themselves for it. As a matter of fact, helping them understand they aren’t to blame and don’t deserve it is a fundamental part of building their personal belief and power so that they can walk away from those situations in the present and future.

 

[Soulfly3]

if I may piggyback off this... do you or anyone else find that depression/anxiety and the 2slgbtqia+ "excuse" is also out of control?

it seems that teens/20 somethings are untouchable at the moment with this "weapon" in their back pocket... it's like getting the star in super mario - you become a teflon don (but can still die).

and let me clear, I have truly ZERO problem/issue with ppl wanting to be who they want to be, or marrying who they want. don't care, doesn't affect me in any way... but when it becomes a weapon of immunity, then the fly sees red. it just makes taking responsibility for one's actions irrelevent, because, well... I don't have to! I'm depressed/suffering from anxiety... or "this is only because I'm _________ (fill in the blank)"

 

[Navin Johnson]

if I may piggyback off this... do you or anyone else find that depression/anxiety and the 2slgbtqia+ "excuse" is also out of control?

it seems that teens/20 somethings are untouchable at the moment with this "weapon" in their back pocket... it's like getting the star in super mario - you become a teflon don (but can still die).

and let me clear, I have truly ZERO problem/issue with ppl wanting to be who they want to be, or marrying who they want. don't care, doesn't affect me in any way... but when it becomes a weapon of immunity, then the fly sees red. it just makes taking responsibility for one's actions irrelevent, because, well... I don't have to! I'm depressed/suffering from anxiety... or "this is only because I'm _________ (fill in the blank)"

about to jump the shark into the PSF here

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I agree with @Jayrod

Nobody wants to take accountability for their own actions anymore

Has anyone ever wanted to take accountability? I always think about how other people are to blame for bad outcomes in my life. Maybe taking accountability is the only way to growth.

Social media gives me the impression that victim hood is increasing but my perception may be wrong. Every situation has nuance and victims have varying degrees of responsibility for their suffering. As commentators, we are detached from these stories that we discuss. I see no harm in talking about what victims may have done wrong. The wrongs of the perpetrator are usually clear beyond discussion. So why not talk about what not to do, how we and those we care about can avoid falling victim to similar perpetrators?

This gets an important part of all of this, which is that some people just find it psychologically comforting to see themselves as victims. There's no reason to blame yourself or reevaluate any of your own actions/beliefs if everything that happens to you is the result of sinister forces outside your control. For a certain personality type, that belief is appealing, so it makes sense that folks would talk themselves into it.

The more difficult part for me is to recognize that there's another side that, namely that many people also find it psychologically comforting to see themselves as having more agency than they really do. There's no need to feel weak or powerless if everything that happens to you is the result of your own decisions, which you could have resolved otherwise.

Obviously there's a golden mean here, probably close to what we commonly refer to as stoicism. You don't want to be the kind of person who drifts through life being thrown hither and yon by the actions of others and random life events, but it's also not healthy to be the kind of person who beats himself up over things that are truly exogenous. The first type of person gets talked about a lot ("victim mentality," etc.) but we hardly ever talk about the other kind of person.

 

[Hawks64]

It's all relative. You can't look at other people's lives solely through your own lens.

You have to take a step back and objectively look at things from a different perspective. Or at least be willing to try.

The lack of empathy is real. No one can know what a person is going through and making assumptions / criticism of others in a situation based on your experiences is incredibly short-sighted. No one wants to look at things through someone else's eyes anymore, everyone just wants to make snap decisions.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The NBA thread is your example of a safe place to express free thought? I couldn’t disagree more. If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

I guess the "irony" is you only seem to want free thought on your end - You're allowed to express your opinion, but no one is allowed to push back on your opinion?

No one should say "you're dumb" but if some one is saying "you're wrong" on an opinion matter, they are tacitly adding "in my opinion". That phrase shouldn't need be be typed out every time one expresses their opinion, it should be implied.

 

[Keerock]

Can someone explain how ”victim mentality” is destroying Western society, and the US specifically? What is being destroyed, and what what will ultimately happen if this phenomenon is unchecked?

I thought "cancel culture" was destroying Western society? Or was that "participation trophy" culture? Or perhaps the "wussificstion of America" that's to blame?

All I know is society has always been critical of itself for many thousands of years and yet, we keep breeding and breathing. Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated it seems.

I'd argue that they are all the same thing. Let's have a beer and not discuss any of this GB

 

[Psychopav]

Here's my perspective:

If a person walks down a dark alleyway in a violent neighborhood in the middle of the night and gets assaulted, the assailant is 100% responsible for the damage that was done. But the victim bears responsibility for knowingly putting themselves at risk, or for being ignorant of the conditions to begin with. But WE (that is, the rest of us who are neither victim nor perpetrator in this situation) don't need to hold them responsible. They will bear the consequences of those actions regardless of whether the assailant is brought to justice.

Our (that is, society's) responsibility is to identify dangerous alleys, enact legislation to make them less dangerous, and educate our citizens about the realities of how to protect themselves from being a victim. Because we don't live in a world where everyone acts with 100% pure, ethical, and just intentions.

Nobody seems to have any problem asking if the car was locked on Facebook or nextdoor.

I'm not sure what this refers to.

 

[MTskibum]

The media/social media has convinced people the country is doing poor, however everyone is still satisfied with their own lives.

There is a real disconnect between what people think is happening and what is actually happening, that is the only way you can explain the graph below.

https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/y7ii77fhveolxa69nqmila.png

 

[Psychopav]

It's all relative. You can't look at other people's lives solely through your own lens.

You have to take a step back and objectively look at things from a different perspective. Or at least be willing to try.

The lack of empathy is real. No one can know what a person is going through and making assumptions / criticism of others in a situation based on your experiences is incredibly short-sighted. No one wants to look at things through someone else's eyes anymore, everyone just wants to make snap decisions.

I find a good personal rule is to do your best to judge yourself with as much objectivity as possible but to give others the benefit of as much subjectivity as possible. Everyone is going through something, every situation includes extenuating circumstances - but you only truly know your own in detail.

 

[Psychopav]

The NBA thread is your example of a safe place to express free thought? I couldn’t disagree more. If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

I guess the "irony" is you only seem to want free thought on your end - You're allowed to express your opinion, but no one is allowed to push back on your opinion?

No one should say "you're dumb" but if some one is saying "you're wrong" on an opinion matter, they are tacitly adding "in my opinion". That phrase shouldn't need be be typed out every time one expresses their opinion, it should be implied.

Which would seem to shift the argument from one of personal accountability to the rules of civil discourse (aka manners, in an informal setting like this). I think inflamed passions blur that line quite a bit but I tend to agree with you (see post above).

If you read a message board and always assume those with opposing views have the worst of intentions towards you, while giving yourself the benefit of the doubt, you're going to walk away with a bad taste in your mouth, 100%.

 

[mr. furley]

The media/social media has convinced people the country is doing poor, however everyone is still satisfied with their own lives.

There is a real disconnect between what people think is happening and what is actually happening, that is the only way you can explain the graph below.

https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/y7ii77fhveolxa69nqmila.png

people: VIOLENT CRIME IS OUT OF CONTROL IN AMERICA! IT HAS NEVER BEEN WORSE!!!

the statistics: violent crime is at an all-time low in America

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The NBA thread is your example of a safe place to express free thought? I couldn’t disagree more. If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

I guess the "irony" is you only seem to want free thought on your end - You're allowed to express your opinion, but no one is allowed to push back on your opinion?

No one should say "you're dumb" but if some one is saying "you're wrong" on an opinion matter, they are tacitly adding "in my opinion". That phrase shouldn't need be be typed out every time one expresses their opinion, it should be implied.

Is it “ironic”, though? I don’t stop anyone from expressing their opinion. I don’t care if people agree with me or not.

I’d argue that stating that another poster is “wrong” for expressing their side of the argument is not being open minded.

Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, just that we disagree.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The media/social media has convinced people the country is doing poor, however everyone is still satisfied with their own lives.

There is a real disconnect between what people think is happening and what is actually happening, that is the only way you can explain the graph below.

https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/y7ii77fhveolxa69nqmila.png

I totally agree with this. I am not a “this country is going to hell in a hand basket” guy. We live in the safest, greatest, easiest time ever to be alive, and we are lucky to be born in this country during this time period. The problems we have are small relative to…. Well, everyone else.


I do think race relations have suffered but think that’s mostly between the really poor/uneducated.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The NBA thread is your example of a safe place to express free thought? I couldn’t disagree more. If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

I guess the "irony" is you only seem to want free thought on your end - You're allowed to express your opinion, but no one is allowed to push back on your opinion?

No one should say "you're dumb" but if some one is saying "you're wrong" on an opinion matter, they are tacitly adding "in my opinion". That phrase shouldn't need be be typed out every time one expresses their opinion, it should be implied.

Is it “ironic”, though? I don’t stop anyone from expressing their opinion. I don’t care if people agree with me or not.

I’d argue that stating that another poster is “wrong” for expressing their side of the argument is not being open minded.

Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, just that we disagree.

You’re concentrating on semantics too much. If some one is arguing in opposition to you, they obviously think you’re “wrong” (in their opinion). It doesn’t mean they’re not listening and assessing what you have to say, just that they don’t agree with you (which is the same thing you just said to me).

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The NBA thread is your example of a safe place to express free thought? I couldn’t disagree more. If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

I guess the "irony" is you only seem to want free thought on your end - You're allowed to express your opinion, but no one is allowed to push back on your opinion?

No one should say "you're dumb" but if some one is saying "you're wrong" on an opinion matter, they are tacitly adding "in my opinion". That phrase shouldn't need be be typed out every time one expresses their opinion, it should be implied.

Is it “ironic”, though? I don’t stop anyone from expressing their opinion. I don’t care if people agree with me or not.

I’d argue that stating that another poster is “wrong” for expressing their side of the argument is not being open minded.

Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, just that we disagree.

You’re concentrating on semantics too much. If some one is arguing in opposition to you, they obviously think you’re “wrong” (in their opinion). It doesn’t mean they’re not listening and assessing what you have to say, just that they don’t agree with you (which is the same thing you just said to me).

“I respect your opinion, but you’re wrong.”

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The NBA thread is your example of a safe place to express free thought? I couldn’t disagree more. If you don’t think LeBron is the greatest basketball player and human ever then you’re called stupid and wrong or both.

I guess the "irony" is you only seem to want free thought on your end - You're allowed to express your opinion, but no one is allowed to push back on your opinion?

No one should say "you're dumb" but if some one is saying "you're wrong" on an opinion matter, they are tacitly adding "in my opinion". That phrase shouldn't need be be typed out every time one expresses their opinion, it should be implied.

Is it “ironic”, though? I don’t stop anyone from expressing their opinion. I don’t care if people agree with me or not.

I’d argue that stating that another poster is “wrong” for expressing their side of the argument is not being open minded.

Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, just that we disagree.

You’re concentrating on semantics too much. If some one is arguing in opposition to you, they obviously think you’re “wrong” (in their opinion). It doesn’t mean they’re not listening and assessing what you have to say, just that they don’t agree with you (which is the same thing you just said to me).

“I respect your opinion, but you’re wrong.”

This is a message board - sometimes people use shorthand and don’t say every single phrase that should be attached to a response. It should be obvious though in the discourse if your opinion is being respected even if the words “you’re wrong” were in the response.

I personally probably get more upset than I should at some responses here, so I’m not discounting what you’re saying - maybe what I’m saying here is also directed to myself.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Dumbo for the singing crows, it was racist somehow. For Abraham Lincoln, being the man to end slavery in this country was not enough to absolve him of the sins of not doing more for native Americans during his presidency. A student group at U of Wisconsin led that movement.

OK so a student group in WI.

not to get too far in to the political weeds, but we have a very strong anti-education movement going in Wisconsin currently.

We do?

 

[mr. furley]

Dumbo for the singing crows, it was racist somehow. For Abraham Lincoln, being the man to end slavery in this country was not enough to absolve him of the sins of not doing more for native Americans during his presidency. A student group at U of Wisconsin led that movement.

OK so a student group in WI.

not to get too far in to the political weeds, but we have a very strong anti-education movement going in Wisconsin currently.

We do?

Scott Walker down?

 

[Jayrod]

Not sure what I expected from this thread (didn't really think much, just typed my thoughts and hit "post" like a fool).

I honestly appreciate all of the conversation. Domestic abuse is a difficult and nuanced problem with no one size fits all solution.