We are all victims (1 Viewer)

[Jayrod]

People can't help themselves.

Bad decisions aren't their fault. Drug addicts, alcoholics, etc., all of them simply are victims of some higher up more powerful person that is pushing them to do the things they do.

I will never mention anyone's decisions as a reason for their problems again. No one is responsible for what happens to them because they are innocent victims always.

Never mind that my aunt (my mom's twin) was killed by her husband before he killed himself. Never mind that my mom runs a battered women's shelter and helps women who have made a life with violent men.

But hey, even daring to mention that someone's decisions could put them in a dangerous situation is a "bad look" and "victim blaming".

You all continue on with your victimhood society.

 

[Jayrod]

And of course, this is going to last all of 5 minutes on here, because it is too "political" (aka controversial and we can't have that, now can we?).

Just ban me as I don't need to be a place that hushes dissent and pushes the real discussion under the rug because it is too hard. Got enough of that mess in the real world where everyone is fine and no one can suggest anyone actually make changes to improve....anything.

 

[General Malaise]

Are you okay?

 

[the moops]

dude

 

[McBokonon]

wat?

 

[need2know]

you want to talk about happened?

 

[ChiefD]

No idea what you are going through at the moment but you gotta know this board will help you with whatever you need.

Prayers my man.

 

[Zow]

And of course, this is going to last all of 5 minutes on here, because it is too "political" (aka controversial and we can't have that, now can we?).

Just ban me as I don't need to be a place that hushes dissent and pushes the real discussion under the rug because it is too hard. Got enough of that mess in the real world where everyone is fine and no one can suggest anyone actually make changes to improve....anything.

I don't think that's what was occurring in the other thread (which I assume you're referring to). A few of us poked fun at your logic (but I didn't think in a disrespectful way) and a couple others gently suggested you either rethink your position or delete your post.

 

[Zow]

For context, I believe this is Jayrod's post that he's upset that he was criticized for. Jayrod, if I'm wrong please advise and I'll delete. But I think it's important to complete the context of your thread here.
_____________________

"Jayrod said:
No woman deserves this, but why is she with him exactly? According to this report:

In November 2020, when Porter was involved in a single-car crash while with the Cavaliers, police arrested him on handgun, vehicular and marijuana charges, which were later dropped. He was sidelined for the start of that season with reported personal issues, then traded away from Cleveland midway through the season after he reportedly engaged in a screaming match with Cavaliers officials following a change to his locker location.
The NBA fined Porter in April 2021 for violating league covid-19 protocols by entering a Miami nightlife establishment. In January 2022, the Rockets suspended Porter after he reportedly left an arena midgame following a halftime confrontation with the coaching staff. Porter was also suspended during his one season at Southern California for what the school described as a “conduct issue.”

I just get a little tired of hearing about women being attracted to men with the "bad boy" image and then being mistreated because he actually is a bad person."

 

[Drunken knight]

@Jayrod

hope you are ok.


in general, i try not to look at things in black and white. There are typically factors involved that we are not privy to. Addiction is an entirely different conversation.

 

[dkp993]

I agree Victimhood is a problem within our society, and it seems to be growing. But actually being a victim is also still too much of a problem within our society. The layers of complexity run deep on both sides and it can be incredibly frustrating.

I hope what ever triggered your current frustration and desire to post gets better or solves itself quickly.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I think there is potentially a worthwhile discussion if it can stay impersonal.

I think that bringing up that issue directly in relation to the latest story that really nobody knows anything about other than a few details in the media seemed out of place.

 

[Navin Johnson]

People can't help themselves.

Bad decisions aren't their fault. Drug addicts, alcoholics, etc., all of them simply are victims of some higher up more powerful person that is pushing them to do the things they do.

I will never mention anyone's decisions as a reason for their problems again. No one is responsible for what happens to them because they are innocent victims always.

Never mind that my aunt (my mom's twin) was killed by her husband before he killed himself. Never mind that my mom runs a battered women's shelter and helps women who have made a life with violent men.

But hey, even daring to mention that someone's decisions could put them in a dangerous situation is a "bad look" and "victim blaming".

You all continue on with your victimhood society.

I sincerely hope nobody you know is ever a victim of domestic violence.

 

[Jayrod]

Personally, I'm fine.

Woz/zow is correct on what triggered this.

I've had way more experience on the subject of domestic abuse (admittedly, second/third hand) than most, yet I got reprimanded by a few posters in a way that rubbed me the wrong way, so I took it elsewhere.

The bad person in an abusive situation is the bad person. Nothing excuses them or takes the blame off of them.

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

It is a rare occasion where a woman who has been abused could not have seen it coming and removed themselves before things got really bad. It is very similar to drug addiction where the warning signs and risks are ignored for a short term fix or high.

There are a lot of reasons "why", but our society and the fields of psychology are absolutely failing on this issue. Victim mentalities are destroying Western civilization and the US specifically. We live in the most prosperous and comfortable society in world history yet suicide, drug abuse and depression rates are rising.

 

[Scoresman]

It's just not black and white.

The abuser is 100% in the wrong. No debate there.

Is the victim in the wrong for getting his/herself in that situation in the first place? It depends, but even if they are, some tact is required when pointing out this potential blame. Does it really need to be pointed out after the fact? What does it change or do to resolve the situation?

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Personally, I'm fine.

Woz/zow is correct on what triggered this.

I've had way more experience on the subject of domestic abuse (admittedly, second/third hand) than most, yet I got reprimanded by a few posters in a way that rubbed me the wrong way, so I took it elsewhere.

The bad person in an abusive situation is the bad person. Nothing excuses them or takes the blame off of them.

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

It is a rare occasion where a woman who has been abused could not have seen it coming and removed themselves before things got really bad. It is very similar to drug addiction where the warning signs and risks are ignored for a short term fix or high.

There are a lot of reasons "why", but our society and the fields of psychology are absolutely failing on this issue. Victim mentalities are destroying Western civilization and the US specifically. We live in the most prosperous and comfortable society in world history yet suicide, drug abuse and depression rates are rising.

i’m dealing with this at work and all I can do is tell the person that we have resources to assist her. She doesn’t care and there’s nothing I can do for now to make her seek help, it’s frustrating and I have to balance telling her that she can have the day off and saying no you need to be at work even though I know she will ***** about how bad her girlfriend is treating her and cause a toxic work environment

 

[Keerock]

The victim mentality in this country (probably outside the US too) is rampant. Nobody wants to take ownership of their mistakes... and even worse, many want the attention that oftentimes comes with being a victim. I feel ya GB @Jayrod

 

[Jayrod]

It's just not black and white.

The abuser is 100% in the wrong. No debate there.

Is the victim in the wrong for getting his/herself in that situation in the first place? It depends, but even if they are, some tact is required when pointing out this potential blame. Does it really need to be pointed out after the fact? What does it change or do to resolve the situation?

When talking the person directly? Absolutely.

When discussing it on an anonymous message board they will never read? Not sure why it can't be discussed fully and openly in an attempt to improve our collective future.

 

[Nugget]

Personally, I'm fine.

Woz/zow is correct on what triggered this.

I've had way more experience on the subject of domestic abuse (admittedly, second/third hand) than most, yet I got reprimanded by a few posters in a way that rubbed me the wrong way, so I took it elsewhere.

The bad person in an abusive situation is the bad person. Nothing excuses them or takes the blame off of them.

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

It is a rare occasion where a woman who has been abused could not have seen it coming and removed themselves before things got really bad. It is very similar to drug addiction where the warning signs and risks are ignored for a short term fix or high.

There are a lot of reasons "why", but our society and the fields of psychology are absolutely failing on this issue. Victim mentalities are destroying Western civilization and the US specifically. We live in the most prosperous and comfortable society in world history yet suicide, drug abuse and depression rates are rising.

The highlighted is where you lost me. I don’t understand what you are proposing.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

But hey, even daring to mention that someone's decisions could put them in a dangerous situation is a "bad look" and "victim blaming".

I can tell my own daughter not to get black-out drunk at college parties, but I can't tell anybody else's daughter that. If I were a college administrator who intentionally wanted to nurture rape culture on my campus, I would have devised a similar policy.

 

[Osaurus]

Reading William S. Burroughs or listening to RevCo?

 

[Gr00vus]

I don't think most have a problem with warning people about the possible negative consequences of questionable decisions. I think a lot of people have a problem with a significant proportion of a response to something horrific happening to someone basically being "I told you so" or "you should have seen it coming." I'm all for holding people accountable, but there are appropriate times and ways to do so - and the aforementioned aint it.

 

[the moops]

The victim mentality in this country (probably outside the US too) is rampant. Nobody wants to take ownership of their mistakes... and even worse, many want the attention that oftentimes comes with being a victim. I feel ya GB @Jayrod

Not you too

 

[Nugget]

But hey, even daring to mention that someone's decisions could put them in a dangerous situation is a "bad look" and "victim blaming".

I can tell my own daughter not to get black-out drunk at college parties, but I can't tell anybody else's daughter that. If I were a college administrator who intentionally wanted to nurture rape culture on my campus, I would have devised a similar policy.

Missoula by Jon Krakauer did a really thorough job at looking at rape culture in a college town. Highly recommend.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Is this irony? I can never tell. Whining about being victimized while complaining about victimhood culture. Seriously man, its the internet. I once got banned from the r/soccer subreddit for making a fantastically funny joke about Bernd Leno.

 

[fatness]

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

There's also nothing wrong with questioning why people choose to question/criticize victims instead of perpetrators.

 

[Jayrod]

Personally, I'm fine.

Woz/zow is correct on what triggered this.

I've had way more experience on the subject of domestic abuse (admittedly, second/third hand) than most, yet I got reprimanded by a few posters in a way that rubbed me the wrong way, so I took it elsewhere.

The bad person in an abusive situation is the bad person. Nothing excuses them or takes the blame off of them.

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

It is a rare occasion where a woman who has been abused could not have seen it coming and removed themselves before things got really bad. It is very similar to drug addiction where the warning signs and risks are ignored for a short term fix or high.

There are a lot of reasons "why", but our society and the fields of psychology are absolutely failing on this issue. Victim mentalities are destroying Western civilization and the US specifically. We live in the most prosperous and comfortable society in world history yet suicide, drug abuse and depression rates are rising.

The highlighted is where you lost me. I don’t understand what you are proposing.

I'm proposing questioning the decision making that leads us to these situations.

I'm proposing confronting women who choose to stay with bad men rather than leave, divorce, prosecute, etc. them.

I'm proposing being more vocal about how an abusive person is much more likely to abuse again than change.

I'm proposing talking about these things openly and honestly instead of shouting down anyone who brings it up as "victim blaming".

 

[Jayrod]

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

There's also nothing wrong with questioning why people choose to question/criticize victims instead of perpetrators.

Then there is nothing wrong with pointing out that no one is doing what you are accusing and hiding behind that is helping to perpetuate the problem instead of solve it.

 

[dschuler]

Thank you for posting this as it takes real courage, especially in this echo chamber.

 

[Jayrod]

The victim mentality in this country (probably outside the US too) is rampant. Nobody wants to take ownership of their mistakes... and even worse, many want the attention that oftentimes comes with being a victim. I feel ya GB @Jayrod

Not you too

It's a thing. Victim mentality is perpetuating a lot of evil.

 

[Jayrod]

Thank you for posting this as it takes real courage, especially in this echo chamber.

I wouldn't say that. I am anonymous here and don't care if I'm disagreed with or banned from the site.

True courage is confronting a loved one (or even just an acquaintance) before it is too late.

 

[Jaysus]

We Are All Victims would be a great name for a teenage screamo cover band who one day hopes to play on the big stage at the local Moose Lodge so that the lead singer's sister's best friend will finally notice them.

 

[Scoresman]

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

There's also nothing wrong with questioning why people choose to question/criticize victims instead of perpetrators.

The word "instead" here is where I take issue. Why cant there be a lot of blame on the abuser, and a little on the abused (depending on circumstances)? Why does it have to be so black and white?

 

[Jaysus]

UPDATE: I did not read the thread before I replied

 

[Navin Johnson]

Personally, I'm fine.

Woz/zow is correct on what triggered this.

I've had way more experience on the subject of domestic abuse (admittedly, second/third hand) than most, yet I got reprimanded by a few posters in a way that rubbed me the wrong way, so I took it elsewhere.

The bad person in an abusive situation is the bad person. Nothing excuses them or takes the blame off of them.

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

It is a rare occasion where a woman who has been abused could not have seen it coming and removed themselves before things got really bad. It is very similar to drug addiction where the warning signs and risks are ignored for a short term fix or high.

There are a lot of reasons "why", but our society and the fields of psychology are absolutely failing on this issue. Victim mentalities are destroying Western civilization and the US specifically. We live in the most prosperous and comfortable society in world history yet suicide, drug abuse and depression rates are rising.

The highlighted is where you lost me. I don’t understand what you are proposing.

I'm proposing questioning the decision making that leads us to these situations.

I'm proposing confronting women who choose to stay with bad men rather than leave, divorce, prosecute, etc. them.

I'm proposing being more vocal about how an abusive person is much more likely to abuse again than change.

I'm proposing talking about these things openly and honestly instead of shouting down anyone who brings it up as "victim blaming".

I see a lot of the first two than the last two. And the problem is our society does nothinig to protect victims of domestic abuse when they do speak up about it which just puts them back into a situation that is worse - which leads to the decision these women make to stay with these abusers.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

UPDATE: I did not read the thread before I replied

:cancelled:

 

[Navin Johnson]

The victim mentality in this country (probably outside the US too) is rampant. Nobody wants to take ownership of their mistakes... and even worse, many want the attention that oftentimes comes with being a victim. I feel ya GB @Jayrod

Not you too

It's a thing. Victim mentality is perpetuating a lot of evil.

Same things have been said forever. Stop being so old

This goes beyond domestic abuse. There are people who like to think that others have arrived in their situation simply as a result of their own laziness, naivete, lack of intelligence, and are comforted in the fact that they can blame the person instead of showing any sort of compassion or empathy.

 

[Psychopav]

Here's my perspective:

If a person walks down a dark alleyway in a violent neighborhood in the middle of the night and gets assaulted, the assailant is 100% responsible for the damage that was done. But the victim bears responsibility for knowingly putting themselves at risk, or for being ignorant of the conditions to begin with. But WE (that is, the rest of us who are neither victim nor perpetrator in this situation) don't need to hold them responsible. They will bear the consequences of those actions regardless of whether the assailant is brought to justice.

Our (that is, society's) responsibility is to identify dangerous alleys, enact legislation to make them less dangerous, and educate our citizens about the realities of how to protect themselves from being a victim. Because we don't live in a world where everyone acts with 100% pure, ethical, and just intentions.

 

[Psychopav]

Here's my perspective:

If a person walks down a dark alleyway in a violent neighborhood in the middle of the night and gets assaulted, the assailant is 100% responsible for the damage that was done. But the victim bears responsibility for knowingly putting themselves at risk, or for being ignorant of the conditions to begin with. But WE (that is, the rest of us who are neither victim nor perpetrator in this situation) don't need to hold them responsible. They will bear the consequences of those actions regardless of whether the assailant is brought to justice.

Our (that is, society's) responsibility is to identify dangerous alleys, enact legislation to make them less dangerous, and educate our citizens about the realities of how to protect themselves from being a victim. Because we don't live in a world where everyone acts with 100% pure, ethical, and just intentions.

Of course, our other responsibility is to bring perpetrators to justice and protect society from them committing more assaults on innocent victims. I left that part out but I shouldn't have.

 

[dschuler]

Thank you for posting this as it takes real courage, especially in this echo chamber.

I wouldn't say that. I am anonymous here and don't care if I'm disagreed with or banned from the site.

True courage is confronting a loved one (or even just an acquaintance) before it is too late.

Very true. Giving people uncomfortable news or discussion is becoming more uncommon. I see more and more young people struggle to even call people to ask a question, but much more so when any kind of conflict arises.

 

[Scoresman]

Here's my perspective:

If a person walks down a dark alleyway in a violent neighborhood in the middle of the night and gets assaulted, the assailant is 100% responsible for the damage that was done. But the victim bears responsibility for knowingly putting themselves at risk, or for being ignorant of the conditions to begin with. But WE (that is, the rest of us who are neither victim nor perpetrator in this situation) don't need to hold them responsible. They will bear the consequences of those actions regardless of whether the assailant is brought to justice.

Our (that is, society's) responsibility is to identify dangerous alleys, enact legislation to make them less dangerous, and educate our citizens about the realities of how to protect themselves from being a victim. Because we don't live in a world where everyone acts with 100% pure, ethical, and just intentions.

The problem is that on the internet, simply stating the bolded means:
- you have no compassion for the victim
- you are blaming the victim instead of the perpetrator
- you should be cancelled

 

[Nugget]

Personally, I'm fine.

Woz/zow is correct on what triggered this.

I've had way more experience on the subject of domestic abuse (admittedly, second/third hand) than most, yet I got reprimanded by a few posters in a way that rubbed me the wrong way, so I took it elsewhere.

The bad person in an abusive situation is the bad person. Nothing excuses them or takes the blame off of them.

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

It is a rare occasion where a woman who has been abused could not have seen it coming and removed themselves before things got really bad. It is very similar to drug addiction where the warning signs and risks are ignored for a short term fix or high.

There are a lot of reasons "why", but our society and the fields of psychology are absolutely failing on this issue. Victim mentalities are destroying Western civilization and the US specifically. We live in the most prosperous and comfortable society in world history yet suicide, drug abuse and depression rates are rising.

The highlighted is where you lost me. I don’t understand what you are proposing.

I'm proposing questioning the decision making that leads us to these situations.

I'm proposing confronting women who choose to stay with bad men rather than leave, divorce, prosecute, etc. them.

I'm proposing being more vocal about how an abusive person is much more likely to abuse again than change.

I'm proposing talking about these things openly and honestly instead of shouting down anyone who brings it up as "victim blaming".

I would support making it easier for women to press charges against their abusers. I would support making it easier for women to get divorced. I would support changing tax laws to make it more feasible to run a household as a single parent.

 

[Psychopav]

Here's my perspective:

If a person walks down a dark alleyway in a violent neighborhood in the middle of the night and gets assaulted, the assailant is 100% responsible for the damage that was done. But the victim bears responsibility for knowingly putting themselves at risk, or for being ignorant of the conditions to begin with. But WE (that is, the rest of us who are neither victim nor perpetrator in this situation) don't need to hold them responsible. They will bear the consequences of those actions regardless of whether the assailant is brought to justice.

Our (that is, society's) responsibility is to identify dangerous alleys, enact legislation to make them less dangerous, and educate our citizens about the realities of how to protect themselves from being a victim. Because we don't live in a world where everyone acts with 100% pure, ethical, and just intentions.

The problem is that on the internet, simply stating the bolded means:
- you have no compassion for the victim
- you are blaming the victim instead of the perpetrator
- you should be cancelled

I'm not stating an opinion. The victim objectively, literally, bears the burden of the consequences of the act. That is reality, not an opinion. And I am not going to entertain abandoning our (that is, society's) responsibility to educate its citizens about the best way to keep themselves safe from predators in an imperfect world.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The victim mentality in this country (probably outside the US too) is rampant. Nobody wants to take ownership of their mistakes... and even worse, many want the attention that oftentimes comes with being a victim. I feel ya GB @Jayrod

Not you too

If you can discuss something without insulting or calling people old do it. If you can't discuss things without being that way, don't post here.

 

[urbanhack]

It's all relative. You can't look at other people's lives solely through your own lens.

You have to take a step back and objectively look at things from a different perspective. Or at least be willing to try.

 

[ChiefD]

It's all relative. You can't look at other people's lives solely through your own lens.

You have to take a step back and objectively look at things from a different perspective. Or at least be willing to try.

This sums it up for me.

You wanna look at what is wrong with society these days? The bolded is it. Too many folks are unwilling to try anymore.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Personally, I'm fine.

Woz/zow is correct on what triggered this.

I've had way more experience on the subject of domestic abuse (admittedly, second/third hand) than most, yet I got reprimanded by a few posters in a way that rubbed me the wrong way, so I took it elsewhere.

The bad person in an abusive situation is the bad person. Nothing excuses them or takes the blame off of them.

But yet, when people ignore red flags, excuse bad behavior and willingly put themselves into dangerous situations there is nothing wrong with questioning those decisions.

It is a rare occasion where a woman who has been abused could not have seen it coming and removed themselves before things got really bad. It is very similar to drug addiction where the warning signs and risks are ignored for a short term fix or high.

There are a lot of reasons "why", but our society and the fields of psychology are absolutely failing on this issue. Victim mentalities are destroying Western civilization and the US specifically. We live in the most prosperous and comfortable society in world history yet suicide, drug abuse and depression rates are rising.

You’ll get no arguments for me.

Only thing that I’ll say is that you have to know your audience, and the majority of this board does not think, believe, or vote the way that you and I might.

In other words, if they don’t like your opinion they'll gang up on you and twist everything you say to fit their narrative.

 

[MTskibum]

I disagree completely.

I think people have the same level of responsibility as always however anonymous online posting makes it seem like victim hood is a bigger issue than it is.

I believe the media and social media give people a false impression about other people's day to day lives.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Lol. He’s tired of people being complete smart asses and y’all just wanna call him crazy.

Such a microcosm of this country.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

It's all relative. You can't look at other people's lives solely through your own lens.

You have to take a step back and objectively look at things from a different perspective. Or at least be willing to try.

And you think that happens on this board?