whoknew
Footballguy
We use the USPS a fair amount for work. Prior to about 2-3 months ago, delivery was great. At max it would take 3 days. Usually 1-2.
Now? We can't get anything delivered in under 10 days. That's a real problem.
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What’s the possible conservative explanation for the recent dismantling of the USPS?!?!? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter mr roboto
- Start date
Now? We can't get anything delivered in under 10 days. That's a real problem.
shader
Footballguy
So why is this happening? Let’s leave the political crap out of it, what is causing mail to take 10 days? Does anyone know?
shader
Footballguy
There are logistical reasons why mail is taking ten days (If that’s true). It’s important to understand what those reasons are if a rational conversation can be had.
If we start with “omg Trump is trying to steal the elections” as the reason, nothing will be solved, as our minds are made up before we get started.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Offices around the country are being instructed to prohibit using overtime.
That’s as much as I can post if you don’t want to get political. Google Louis DeJoy. You should be able to piece things together pretty quickly from there.
Honestly it’s pretty obvious and not even sure it can be debated. I mean Trump literally said this is what he’s doing.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm not attempting to conflate replacement and removal. Forgive me for making that not as clear as it could have been. I'm talking about the removal of boxes with nothing getting put back in their place....like in Oregon. The reason given is they are being removed because they aren't being used because of the pandemic. The warnings are coming from the staff there. I guess they could be lying and part of the deep state out to get Trump, but for some reason, I just can't jump in that boat. According to BBC, a lot of this activity is out west. I'm not sure what's going on in NYC, but that doesn't seem to be the same thing that is being reported out west. I know there is a ton of outrage at the "changes" being made at the USPS, especially in Oregon.
The Commish
Footballguy
Is it true sorting stations are being told to shut down as well? BBC is reporting this as well.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
I haven’t heard of that. I’ve heard of potential merging of offices. This has been going on for years though. We merged with a neighboring town about 5 years ago and they closed that town’s office.
What I can confirm is that a guy I worked with transferred to another office about 3 years ago and I still keep in touch with him. His new office is one of the test offices where the new PMG plan is being tested. He has told me horror stories of mail piling up and routes sitting undelivered for days on end. I will tell you that this is completely foreign to everything we have stood for in my 21 years. We deliver every piece, every day. No matter if we are out there until 9:00 at night. We have had carriers written up and disciplined for accidentally leaving one letter behind. Make of this what you will.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
So no defense for this? Of course not. It’s indefensible and anti-American at its core. And to think of the thread on co-opting patriotism for one party “America’s so great”, where are those people now?
If you can’t see this for what it is, an attempt to steal the election, then you never will and that’s a shame for the country.
If you can’t see this for what it is, an attempt to steal the election, then you never will and that’s a shame for the country.
Good review by Ashley Parker, Phil Rucker and John Dawsey of the Post: Tracing Trump’s Postal Service obsession — from ‘loser’ to ‘scam’ to ‘rigged election’
>> Then Trump complained to senior White House advisers that Jeff Bezos — a presidential foe in part because he owns The Washington Post, whose news coverage the president thought was unfair and too tough on him — was “getting rich” because Amazon had been “ripping off” the Postal Service with a “sweetheart deal” to ship millions of its packages, one of them recalled. They explained that this was not true and that the Postal Service actually benefited from Amazon’s business, the adviser added, but the president railed for months about what he described as a “scam.”
And now Trump has fixated again on the Postal Service, this time trying to make it a tool in his reelection campaign by slowing mail service, blocking an emergency infusion of federal funds and challenging the integrity of mail-in balloting. The president acknowledged last week that his opposition is rooted in his desire to restrict how many Americans can vote by mail.
Trump did not explicitly mention the Postal Service, but he told those in the meetings that he wanted to block states from expanding universal mail-in ballots by filing more lawsuits, these people said.
One of Trump’s closest allies, Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), criticized the president’s opposition to funding the Postal Service at the requested levels, noting that the service is overwhelmingly popular with the American public and is an essential resource for people who receive their prescription medicines through the mail.
"In the 245 years of the Postal Service, no one has seen political attacks like this,” said James O’Rourke, a professor of management at the University of Notre Dame who specializes in the Postal Service. “While for a long time we thought this was not politically driven, it’s becoming increasingly transparent in recent days that this is almost entirely political.”
As Larry Kudlow prepared to take over for Gary Cohn as National Economic Council director in 2018, Kudlow told Cohn, “I just talked to the president and we have got to do something about this special deal Amazon has with the Postal Service,” according to two former senior administration officials who described the episode, which has not previously been reported. Cohn burst out laughing and told Kudlow: “It’s not my problem anymore. I’ve heard about this all the time since I’ve been here, and I’ve tried explaining that the post office actually competes for and wants last-mile delivery.” <<
>> Then Trump complained to senior White House advisers that Jeff Bezos — a presidential foe in part because he owns The Washington Post, whose news coverage the president thought was unfair and too tough on him — was “getting rich” because Amazon had been “ripping off” the Postal Service with a “sweetheart deal” to ship millions of its packages, one of them recalled. They explained that this was not true and that the Postal Service actually benefited from Amazon’s business, the adviser added, but the president railed for months about what he described as a “scam.”
And now Trump has fixated again on the Postal Service, this time trying to make it a tool in his reelection campaign by slowing mail service, blocking an emergency infusion of federal funds and challenging the integrity of mail-in balloting. The president acknowledged last week that his opposition is rooted in his desire to restrict how many Americans can vote by mail.
Trump did not explicitly mention the Postal Service, but he told those in the meetings that he wanted to block states from expanding universal mail-in ballots by filing more lawsuits, these people said.
One of Trump’s closest allies, Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), criticized the president’s opposition to funding the Postal Service at the requested levels, noting that the service is overwhelmingly popular with the American public and is an essential resource for people who receive their prescription medicines through the mail.
"In the 245 years of the Postal Service, no one has seen political attacks like this,” said James O’Rourke, a professor of management at the University of Notre Dame who specializes in the Postal Service. “While for a long time we thought this was not politically driven, it’s becoming increasingly transparent in recent days that this is almost entirely political.”
As Larry Kudlow prepared to take over for Gary Cohn as National Economic Council director in 2018, Kudlow told Cohn, “I just talked to the president and we have got to do something about this special deal Amazon has with the Postal Service,” according to two former senior administration officials who described the episode, which has not previously been reported. Cohn burst out laughing and told Kudlow: “It’s not my problem anymore. I’ve heard about this all the time since I’ve been here, and I’ve tried explaining that the post office actually competes for and wants last-mile delivery.” <<
Kevrunner
Footballguy
I know some of the new procedures being enforced at my local mail processing facility (I’ve retired, but I still have a lot of friends I keep in touch with) are pretty aggressive. All overtime was supposed to be cut out, hasn’t happened yet though, it’s been greatly reduced but not eliminated. But this has only been enforced on the clerk craft employees not the mail handler craft employees..
Another change being implemented is that there is no more late truck trips going out with mail. It’s kinda of hard to explain unless you have worked at a mail processing facility but I’ll try. Each zip code has its own truck dispatch schedule. If the mail is not ready to leave at that time, in the past you would either hold that truck and wait till the mail was ready or you would send the truck out with all the mail that was available and then have an “extra trip” take the rest of the mail when it was finished processing (extra trips are very expensive, they are done by private contract drivers, not USPS drivers, just hearsay, but I’ve been told the extra trips can costs $700, regardless of how much mail is involved). So a lot of mail is being left for the next day, which has never happened before.
The machinery is being reduced, but at this facility they are modifying some of the remaining machines to handle more mail (mainly the letter sorting machines), merging parts of the machines being taking out of service with the ones that are remaining. These machines have modules which can easily be added to another machine to increase the amount of mail that can be processed, as long as the floor space is available. This should have been done years ago, it’s a great idea, just not good timing. The mail volume today can not justify all of this machinery (maintenance of these machines alone cost a lot of $$$). Facilities would have machines only running 7 or 8 hours each day, when they were supposed to run 20 hours a day and have a 4 hour maintenance window every day.
There are a couple more changes that I want to mention but it’s hard to explain without having prior knowledge of how mail is processed these facilities. I can’t understand how mail is taking 10 days to deliver unless it’s Standard (used to be called 3rd class) mail. Here is a link to a statement the new Postmaster General gave to all postal employees, if anyone is interested in reading:
Postmaster General Addresses Restructuring
Also, in 1992, we had a new Postmaster General appointed, his name was Marvin Runyon, his official nickname was Carvin Marvin, he immediately restructured the postal service, making massive changes, offered early retirement to employees, which led to the postal service making huge profits each year for awhile, which they could reinvest into better equipment/vehicles/facilities are so on, until congress created the prefunding mandate and then came the drastic decline in letter mail and eventually all mail, except for packages, they boomed and are really exploding now.
Another change being implemented is that there is no more late truck trips going out with mail. It’s kinda of hard to explain unless you have worked at a mail processing facility but I’ll try. Each zip code has its own truck dispatch schedule. If the mail is not ready to leave at that time, in the past you would either hold that truck and wait till the mail was ready or you would send the truck out with all the mail that was available and then have an “extra trip” take the rest of the mail when it was finished processing (extra trips are very expensive, they are done by private contract drivers, not USPS drivers, just hearsay, but I’ve been told the extra trips can costs $700, regardless of how much mail is involved). So a lot of mail is being left for the next day, which has never happened before.
The machinery is being reduced, but at this facility they are modifying some of the remaining machines to handle more mail (mainly the letter sorting machines), merging parts of the machines being taking out of service with the ones that are remaining. These machines have modules which can easily be added to another machine to increase the amount of mail that can be processed, as long as the floor space is available. This should have been done years ago, it’s a great idea, just not good timing. The mail volume today can not justify all of this machinery (maintenance of these machines alone cost a lot of $$$). Facilities would have machines only running 7 or 8 hours each day, when they were supposed to run 20 hours a day and have a 4 hour maintenance window every day.
There are a couple more changes that I want to mention but it’s hard to explain without having prior knowledge of how mail is processed these facilities. I can’t understand how mail is taking 10 days to deliver unless it’s Standard (used to be called 3rd class) mail. Here is a link to a statement the new Postmaster General gave to all postal employees, if anyone is interested in reading:
Postmaster General Addresses Restructuring
Also, in 1992, we had a new Postmaster General appointed, his name was Marvin Runyon, his official nickname was Carvin Marvin, he immediately restructured the postal service, making massive changes, offered early retirement to employees, which led to the postal service making huge profits each year for awhile, which they could reinvest into better equipment/vehicles/facilities are so on, until congress created the prefunding mandate and then came the drastic decline in letter mail and eventually all mail, except for packages, they boomed and are really exploding now.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Thanks for the informative posts on USPS processes and history, but if anyone thinks that these “changes” now suddenly happening at the Post Office with less than 90 days left until the election are anything other than an attempt to steal the election, I would ask that you please open your eyes and ears.
The man literally said it himself, what more do people need?
The man literally said it himself, what more do people need?
Green Balloons
Footballguy
Well sure but Trump is a pathological liar.Tool said:
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
This isn’t necessarily proof, but its’s data...shader said:
https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1294344659385249792?s=21
ren hoek
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
All right, question for the mail guys. I ordered a package early in August that was shipped out on the 4th from Fargo ND. It arrived at a USPS facility in Indianapolis on August 5th. On August 6th, it arrived in the Nashville TN distribution center. From there it went to the Oxford MS facility, arriving there the same day. August 8th, it arrived in Memphis TN distribution center.
It sat in Memphis for 6 days, then on the 14th it was routed back to the Oxford MS facility. Later that night it arrived at Cincinnati OH distribution center. On the 15th it made its way from Cincinnati to a Louisville facility, and according to the log it should be out for delivery today (17th).
Just to recap, it went from Fargo to Indianapolis to Nashville to Oxford to Memphis, back to Oxford, then to Cincinnati and finally out to Louisville. By my account that is about a 2,164 mile trip for a route that is closer to 950 if it were a straight line. I know direct runs are not possible, but this seems like an awfully circuitous route. Is that common or?
It sat in Memphis for 6 days, then on the 14th it was routed back to the Oxford MS facility. Later that night it arrived at Cincinnati OH distribution center. On the 15th it made its way from Cincinnati to a Louisville facility, and according to the log it should be out for delivery today (17th).
Just to recap, it went from Fargo to Indianapolis to Nashville to Oxford to Memphis, back to Oxford, then to Cincinnati and finally out to Louisville. By my account that is about a 2,164 mile trip for a route that is closer to 950 if it were a straight line. I know direct runs are not possible, but this seems like an awfully circuitous route. Is that common or?
shader
Footballguy
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-postal-service-and-the-2020-election-what-you-need-to-know-11597619119Man In The Box said:
Found the article I was looking for. One of the most professional articles I’ve read in awhile. I highly recommend.
The Commish
Footballguy
Thanks....it appears that it's not centers rather sorting machines in various centers. Though it also appears that the White House is in the process of walking those comments back. I guess I need to let this play out a bit longer. I think I heard that the House is coming back to DC to work on some legislation to try and make sure that no changes to the postal system are being made before the end of the year.Man In The Box said:
HellToupee
Footballguy
Unfortunately no. The new hires(ccas) are underpaid, overworked and treated like a disposable workforce .I’d say 50% of new hires are gone within a month. About 5-6 years ago the brains in DC cut new carriers pay for $22ish to $16 with basically no benefits . That included existing workers which created a mass exodus. It’s not an easy job today , I have a lot of respect for carriers like Man in the Box
Seriously....when was the last time that anyone here, licked a stamp and mailed a letter?
The USPS is as antiquated as the Pony Express and junk mail makes up the majority of my recycling bin.
I just streamlined my VA loan (2.375%
) and never went into an office or sent, or received, a single piece of snail mail.
The USPS is as antiquated as the Pony Express and junk mail makes up the majority of my recycling bin.
I just streamlined my VA loan (2.375%
) and never went into an office or sent, or received, a single piece of snail mail.
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The Commish
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
I golf with a bunch of mail folks. This was an issue way before this past week or two. Has to do more with that little Covid thing keeping people home. One friend, who just retired from the postal service, told me that when the virus was at peak, federal employees with a child under 17 years old could stay home and receive 75% of their pay.
Now I have not been able to verify it, and I don't know if it is still in effect, but I don't have any reason to think he would lie..Again, this was months ago. Another lady mail carrier posted pics on her Facebook of the mail center where she worked so backed up with sorting it looked insane. This was in May....NOT a Trump driven issue.
Now I have not been able to verify it, and I don't know if it is still in effect, but I don't have any reason to think he would lie..Again, this was months ago. Another lady mail carrier posted pics on her Facebook of the mail center where she worked so backed up with sorting it looked insane. This was in May....NOT a Trump driven issue.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
I don’t have a subscription so I’m not able to read this. I’ve done enough reading and have enough first hand experience to know what’s going on. My livelihood is in the balance so it’s been pretty much all I’ve consumed for the past few weeks. I’m on vacation this week so I’m going to take a break from it for a while. It’s been overwhelming and exhausting to be quite honest. It’s really disappointing, but not the least bit surprising to see that we can’t come together during all of this. Party over country seems to be the path we’ve taken.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
I will second all of this, and I appreciate the kind words.
It’s not a job for everyone that’s for sure.
whoknew
Footballguy
I get that you don't use the USPS and don't care about it.Seriously....when was the last time that anyone here, licked a stamp and mailed a letter?
The USPS is as antiquated as the Pony Express and junk mail makes up the majority of my recycling bin.
I just streamlined my VA loan (2.375%
But lots of people and businesses still do. A lot. Every day.
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whoknew
Footballguy
The USPS processes and delivers 472 million pieces of mail everyday.
If you prefer anecdotal evidence, I can tell you that my company and the companies we do business with use it everyday. And none of that is junk mailers.
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....and every one of those end up in my mailbox....then, into the recycle bin.
Seriously, there are about 129 million households in the us.
At 472 million pieces of mail per day, that's 3.7 pieces of mail per household.
I get at LEAST 3.7 pieces of junk mail per day.
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Man In The Box
Footballguy
No offense, but posts like these are useless and make you look foolish. My office had 10,500 packages on Saturday in a 37 route office. That’s just packages. Your post is the equivalent of me going into the NBA thread and telling everyone that the NBA sucks since I don’t watch it.
10,500 packages in one day....sent via the USPS?
Does your business need a business consultant?
I know a guy who can save them, LITERALLY, a TON of money!!
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Man In The Box
Footballguy
Ugh. No. I’m a postal worker. We had 10,500 packages to be delivered. In one day. Amongst 37 routes. The country is a lot bigger than your recycling bin.
Mile High
Footballguy
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I kinda figured that out.....
....and my comments stand....they could sub- contract that out to someone else and save money....and it would be delivered quicker.
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Mile High
Footballguy
Most people are happy to spend more for good service.
I know that I am. That's one reason I didn't even know that you don't have to lick a stamp anymore.
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Mile High
Footballguy
It comes down to 2 factors....
- The USPS cannot handle the flood of ballots that would come in. No way....not a chance
- There is no chain of custody with ballots in mass mailings.
A ballot should be handed to a voter and immediately returned to be counted....guaranteeing the chain of custody.
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Green Balloons
Footballguy
I posted his exact quote admitting it which is met with "I'm not sure about that". This reminds me of that Star Trek episode where Picard is captured and fed one delusion after another. Even upon being rescued he can't tell what is and isn't real anymore.
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whoknew
Footballguy
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whoknew
Footballguy
You tell me.
"Nearly six weeks later, two congressional races remain undecided, and officials are trading blame over the mishandling of tens of thousands of mail-in ballots". - NYT
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The Commish
Footballguy
The leader of your party disagrees with you.
Now, of course, I have issue with ballots being mass mailed. Article I posted above (or might be in another thread....can't remember now) shows a handful of states who are proposing this. Nine states and DC are doing this. Two of those states already do it, so 7 new ones and DC. Five of those states had plans to do mail in voting pre pandemic. ONE of them (Nevada) is a battleground state. I know that doesn't fit the boogeyman narrative, but that's how it's going down.
Link....again
