What’s the possible conservative explanation for the recent dismantling of the USPS?!?!? (4 Viewers)

[Opie]

I would need more information. Who is mishandling?

Well, by all means...DON"T read the article!!

....and certainly, DON'T do your own research on the subject!!

Off the top of my head, I would guess that the "mishandling" is being done by someone in the chain of custody of those "tens of thousands of ballots".

 

[whoknew]

Well, by all means...DON"T read the article!!

....and certainly, DON'T do your own research on the subject!!

You didn't post a link.

 

[Opie]

You didn't post a link.

I did.

It didn't post the 1st time. I went right back in and fixed it.

 

[sho nuff]

It comes down to 2 factors....

1.  The USPS cannot handle the flood of ballots that would come in. No way....not a chance
   
2.  There is no chain of custody with ballots in mass mailings.
   

Even as low as mail-in voting has been...every year...SOMEHOW....boxes of uncounted, mail-in  ballots show up after the tally has been announced.

A ballot should be handed to a voter and immediately returned to be counted....guaranteeing the chain of custody.

How much mail do you think the USPS handles around Christmas?  So you now think they couldn't handled it for an election?

By the way...yes, there is chain of custody attested to by the voter that they are the ones who filled it out and put it in the mail...punishable as a felony I believe.  There is tracking of said mail...and ways to check it (as several posters have attested to in their own states).

 

[whoknew]

Well, by all means...DON"T read the article!!

....and certainly, DON'T do your own research on the subject!!

It looks like there were two issues - both of which are correctable. And one of which was a USPS issue.

"Election lawyers said one area of concern in New York City was that mail-in ballots have prepaid return envelopes. The Postal Service apparently had difficulty processing some of them correctly and, as a result, an unknown number of votes — perhaps thousands — may have been wrongfully disqualified because of a lack of a postmark."

--

"Thousands more ballots in the city were discarded by election officials for minor errors, or not even sent to voters until the day before the primary, making it all but impossible for the ballots to be returned in time."

----

As I said, both of those seem easily remedied. And we know that other areas have successfully voted by mail with no significant issues. 

 

[sho nuff]

It looks like there were two issues - both of which are correctable. And one of which was a USPS issue.

"Election lawyers said one area of concern in New York City was that mail-in ballots have prepaid return envelopes. The Postal Service apparently had difficulty processing some of them correctly and, as a result, an unknown number of votes — perhaps thousands — may have been wrongfully disqualified because of a lack of a postmark."

--

"Thousands more ballots in the city were discarded by election officials for minor errors, or not even sent to voters until the day before the primary, making it all but impossible for the ballots to be returned in time."

----

As I said, both of those seem easily remedied. And we know that other areas have successfully voted by mail with no significant issues. 

Also...seems many of that was due to election officials...not the mail being to blame.

 

[Opie]

It looks like there were two issues - both of which are correctable. And one of which was a USPS issue.

"Election lawyers said one area of concern in New York City was that mail-in ballots have prepaid return envelopes. The Postal Service apparently had difficulty processing some of them correctly and, as a result, an unknown number of votes — perhaps thousands — may have been wrongfully disqualified because of a lack of a postmark."

--

"Thousands more ballots in the city were discarded by election officials for minor errors, or not even sent to voters until the day before the primary, making it all but impossible for the ballots to be returned in time."

----

As I said, both of those seem easily remedied. And we know that other areas have successfully voted by mail with no significant issues. 

Irregardless of who's to blame....it clearly demonstrates the irregularities in a system where the chain of custody is not maintained......eg....mail in voting.

I guess that my problem isn't with the USPS itself, its the whole process.
As far as the USPS is concerned, they just shouldn't be asked to handle the deluge and still maintain their same level of service while still losing only, the same amount of money.

 

[KiddLattimer]

Are the number of ballots expected larger than the number of packages and cards delivered around Christmas?

Edit to add: Answering my own question... according to this USPS article from 2019 they deliver 168,000,000 packages between Dec.16-21 alone. 138 million people voted in 2016 and not everyone will vote by mail, so any declaration that they can't handle it is hogwash.

 

[The Commish]

Why don't we worry about "chain of custody" in all those voting booths where you vote on a machine, the results are batched up and sent to board of elections to be processed...most of the time without any sort of paper trail?

 

[SoBeDad]

To help out with the deluge of VBM, but primarily to make it easier to drop off VBM ballots,  many places are using drop boxes at a few government locations. In Miami-Dade, the Republican mayor, Carlos Gimenez is on board. Apparently,  this has been done for years in other states. The RNC has gone to court in PA over drop boxes. Are drop boxes a reasonable solution during a pandemic?

NPR with some more great journalism: https://www.npr.org/2020/08/11/901066396/ballot-drop-boxes-become-latest-front-in-voting-legal-fights

 

[urbanhack]

It comes down to 2 factors....

1.  The USPS cannot handle the flood of ballots that would come in. No way....not a chance
   
2.  There is no chain of custody with ballots in mass mailings.
   

Even as low as mail-in voting has been...every year...SOMEHOW....boxes of uncounted, mail-in  ballots show up after the tally has been announced.

A ballot should be handed to a voter and immediately returned to be counted....guaranteeing the chain of custody.

How are the five states that have been doing this for years not had any problems?  The mail is only being handled in-state. It's not like it's being sent across country and that it will need to go through multiple distribution centers.

 

[sho nuff]

Why don't we worry about "chain of custody" in all those voting booths where you vote on a machine, the results are batched up and sent to board of elections to be processed...most of the time without any sort of paper trail?

Thankfully TN changed this in this year.  Starting in the primaries in March.  You actually get a slip of paper...insert into the first machine to make your choices...it prints those on the paper ballot, you check them over, then go to a scanner and scan them in...they then have the electronic version, and the paper copy kept.  But yeah, chain of custody isn't much different than the mail most times...its pretty much an irrelevant point these days.

 

[sho nuff]

The President of the red states of America has this covered. 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·

1h

Some states use “drop boxes” for the collection of Universal Mail-In Ballots. So who is going to “collect” the Ballots, and what might be done to them prior to tabulation? A Rigged Election? So bad for our Country. Only Absentee Ballots acceptable!

I see he is still trotting out the lies trying to differentiate between his absentee balloting and the bogus claims of universal mail in ballots.

 

[urbanhack]

10,500 packages in one day....sent via the USPS?

Does your business need a business consultant?

I know a guy who can save them, LITERALLY, a TON of money!!

How about this?

https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/local/veterans-see-delays-in-medication-deliveries-from-usps/527-f5028064-3070-42d5-86c5-95c126a3b8ef

 

[urbanhack]

How about this?

https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/local/veterans-see-delays-in-medication-deliveries-from-usps/527-f5028064-3070-42d5-86c5-95c126a3b8ef

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1295133240819425286?s=20

 

[dkp993]

The President of the red states of America has this covered. 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

·

1h

Some states use “drop boxes” for the collection of Universal Mail-In Ballots. So who is going to “collect” the Ballots, and what might be done to them prior to tabulation? A Rigged Election? So bad for our Country. Only Absentee Ballots acceptable!

Just imagine a world where our POTUS cared as much about foreign election interference, like every single government agency says has happened/will be happening, as much as he cared about mail in ballots.  

 

[Green Balloons]

Just imagine a world where our POTUS cared as much about foreign election interference, like every single government agency says has happened/will be happening, as much as he cared about mail in ballots.  

Mind bottling.

 

[The Gator]

I'm going to need more

Rep. Katie Porter @RepKatiePorter · 8m

I hope the Postmaster General comes prepared. I know I will.

Big fan of Congresswoman Katie Porter at just about any hearing.

 

[Nugget]

Seriously....when was the last time that anyone here, licked a stamp and mailed a letter?

The USPS is as antiquated as the Pony Express and junk mail makes up the majority of my recycling bin.

I just streamlined my VA loan (2.375%  ) and never went into an office or sent, or received, a single piece of snail mail.

So you have never sent a care package?

 

[HellToupee]

Are the number of ballots expected larger than the number of packages and cards delivered around Christmas?

Edit to add: Answering my own question... according to this USPS article from 2019 they deliver 168,000,000 packages between Dec.16-21 alone. 138 million people voted in 2016 and not everyone will vote by mail, so any declaration that they can't handle it is hogwash.

It’s really apples to oranges. Christmas time is very light mail wise despite the BS put out there. Packages are another thing entirely, Christmas packages are heavy but have been dwarfed by the covid mania . Mail is way down right now and packages in this area are higher than Christmas levels .
Honestly the stumbling block is assuring fully staffed offices , no covid positives and quarantines and the timeframe of the election. Time and healthy bodies are needed to move the ballots back and forth. 

 

[dkp993]

Honestly the stumbling block is assuring fully staffed offices , no covid positives and quarantines and the timeframe of the election. Time and healthy bodies are needed to move the ballots back and forth. 

That totally makes sense, I would image most financial support would help that?

 

[Mile High]

That totally makes sense, I would image most financial support would help that?

True. But realistic Trump has pretty much won on this by running out the clock. Probably not enough time to implement wide spread and trusted vote by mail.

 

[Man In The Box]

That totally makes sense, I would image most financial support would help that?

Well, if the postal service eliminates overtime, forget about it. It would be a death knell. It’s just not possible to get the mail delivered timely without it. And I’m talking pre-corona virus. We just have too many vacancies on routes on a daily basis. Between employees being on vacation, out sick, hurt, and as HT mentioned, the new hires not sticking, we have anywhere from 3-8 vacant routes of our 37 routes daily. Meaning we pay regulars overtime to split these routes mostly. A regular will do his regular assignment and then do x amount of hours on one of the vacant routes and get paid overtime. 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Now Trump tweets Save the USPS?

People are so gullible it’s sickening.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

So he can say "we TRIED to save it but THE EXTREME LEFT wouldn't let us!" So transparently phony.

 

[Man In The Box]

Now Trump tweets Save the USPS?

People are so gullible it’s sickening.

Incredible

 

[The Commish]

Why don't we worry about "chain of custody" in all those voting booths where you vote on a machine, the results are batched up and sent to board of elections to be processed...most of the time without any sort of paper trail?

Anyone?  This isn't a trick or "gotcha" question.  I'm trying to understand the line being drawn here.  Seems pretty arbitrary, but I'm open to an explanation.

 

[Opie]

Are the number of ballots expected larger than the number of packages and cards delivered around Christmas?

Edit to add: Answering my own question... according to this USPS article from 2019 they deliver 168,000,000 packages between Dec.16-21 alone. 138 million people voted in 2016 and not everyone will vote by mail, so any declaration that they can't handle it is hogwash.

Well, that would be the USPS itself.
"If the funding doesn't come through, everything we do, including vote-by-mail, will be much harder," American Postal Workers Union President Mark Dimondstein said. 

 

[Opie]

If they handed out stimulus checks at the voting booth...people would find a way to get there.

 

[Opie]

Incredible

No argument here.

 

[sho nuff]

If they handed out stimulus checks at the voting booth...people would find a way to get there.

Yet many are sent by mail...odd how we can trust the chain of custody for that.

Also saying something will be harder without more funding and saying they cant do it are different things.

 

[KiddLattimer]

Well, that would be the USPS itself.
"If the funding doesn't come through, everything we do, including vote-by-mail, will be much harder," American Postal Workers Union President Mark Dimondstein said. 

Fair point... I should have clarified. My point was they can actually do the job.  If we asked the Navy for 3 new nuclear submarines by November they would also need additional funding. 

 

[Man In The Box]

No argument here.

I’ve seen enough of your work to realize that any further exchanges between us would be fruitless. Your flag is clearly planted.  I’ve tried explaining things with my first hand knowledge, hoping you would take a step back and breathe instead of regurgitating right wing links and pretending that you know about things that are clearly outside of your lane. Have a great evening. 

 

[lakerstan]

Are the number of ballots expected larger than the number of packages and cards delivered around Christmas?

Edit to add: Answering my own question... according to this USPS article from 2019 they deliver 168,000,000 packages between Dec.16-21 alone. 138 million people voted in 2016 and not everyone will vote by mail, so any declaration that they can't handle it is hogwash.

That is PACKAGES, and it is 800 million for Thanksgiving to New Years.  Just packages (parcels), not mail.

“Additionally, USPS predicts that almost 2.5 billion pieces of First-Class Mail, including greeting cards, will be processed and delivered the week of Dec. 16.”

https://www.21cpw.com/usps-releases-holiday-volume-projections/
 

That’s billion - with a B

 

[greenroom]

Now Trump tweets Save the USPS?

People are so gullible it’s sickening.

So does this mean the board flips sides on the arguments?  

 

[Mookie]

So if we're so scared about all of this mail, why not let us vote by internet or phone app?  Sign in, password, electronic signatures, encryption.  If it's safe enough to protect our bank accounts, why isn't it good enough for voting?  Those without internet/phone would still vote by mail, but the impact on the USPS would be trimmed 60, 70, 80%?  In other words, let's make voting EASIER. 

Seems easy enough but when your end game is voter suppression, you put up roadblocks everywhere.

 

[greenroom]

So if we're so scared about all of this mail, why not let us vote by internet or phone app?  Sign in, password, electronic signatures, encryption.  If it's safe enough to protect our bank accounts, why isn't it good enough for voting?  Those without internet/phone would still vote by mail, but the impact on the USPS would be trimmed 60, 70, 80%?  In other words, let's make voting EASIER. 

Seems easy enough but when your end game is voter suppression, you put up roadblocks everywhere.

Thats what I want to have happen.. You can file your taxes why can we not vote online.  

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

So if we're so scared about all of this mail, why not let us vote by internet or phone app?  Sign in, password, electronic signatures, encryption.  If it's safe enough to protect our bank accounts, why isn't it good enough for voting?  Those without internet/phone would still vote by mail, but the impact on the USPS would be trimmed 60, 70, 80%?  In other words, let's make voting EASIER. 

Seems easy enough but when your end game is voter suppression, you put up roadblocks everywhere.

I'm too worried about hacking.  Prefer a paper trail.

 

[General Malaise]

Thats what I want to have happen.. You can file your taxes why can we not vote online.  

Because Republicans want to limit the voting by excluding minorities.  I would have far more respect for them if they just said that.  

I have voted by mail for 25 years.  It's terrific.  There isn't one person in the state of Oregon I have ever met who complains about this method of voting. 

 

[Mookie]

I'm too worried about hacking.  Prefer a paper trail.

Your worries are irrational.  Have you tried accessing your Social Security information?  Filed taxes electronically?  Sent and/or received money?  Made online purchases sharing your payment information? 

If that stuff can be done online or by phone, why can't we develop a secure way to vote to ease those "worries"?  That, of course is the rhetorical question that conservatives want to avoid.  More voters and more votes = less conservatives in office.  It's all about voter suppression and denying us our most important right to maintain power and control.  It's fundamentally cheating and blatantly unconstitutional, but we can't empower all of these uppity liberals by having a fair process.  Think of what would happen to the stock market and our suburban lifestyle!    

 

[Man In The Box]

Because Republicans want to limit the voting by excluding minorities.  I would have far more respect for them if they just said that.  

I have voted by mail for 25 years.  It's terrific.  There isn't one person in the state of Oregon I have ever met who complains about this method of voting. 

Like I’ve said a few times. 21 years. Zero complaints or issues with mail in ballots. Studies have been done. It’s a non issue. A boogeyman. Give us the time we need to get it done, and we’ll get it done. Next. 

 

[SoBeDad]

Because Republicans want to limit the voting by excluding minorities.  I would have far more respect for them if they just said that.  

I have voted by mail for 25 years.  It's terrific.  There isn't one person in the state of Oregon I have ever met who complains about this method of voting. 

In Florida, that's been the game plan for a long time by making it very difficult for former felons to vote. That game plan brought us Bush and the Iraq war.

 

[Megla]

In Florida, that's been the game plan for a long time by making it very difficult for former felons to vote. That game plan brought us Bush and the Iraq war.

Whats a former felon?

 

[Tool]

Seriously....when was the last time that anyone here, licked a stamp and mailed a letter?

The USPS is as antiquated as the Pony Express and junk mail makes up the majority of my recycling bin.

I just streamlined my VA loan (2.375%  ) and never went into an office or sent, or received, a single piece of snail mail.

You know they deliver packages too right? I was there today sending a package

 

[SoBeDad]

Whats a former felon?

Ex-felon. There could be over a million in Florida who should be eligible to vote under Amendment 4, but I read that only about 100,000 will be eligible. The vast majority don't know how much they owe in court fines, and neither does the state. Another big chunk don't have the funds to pay court fines. Jim Crow revisited, history won't look kindly on DeSantis. 

LeBron is helping out: https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/07/24/lebron-james-joins-push-to-turn-out-ex-felon-vote-in-florida-1303417

 

[Megla]

Ex-felon. There could be over a million in Florida who should be eligible to vote under Amendment 4, but I read that only about 100,000 will be eligible. The vast majority don't know how much they owe in court fines, and neither does the state. Another big chunk don't have the funds to pay court fines. Jim Crow revisited, history won't look kindly on DeSantis. 

LeBron is helping out: https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/07/24/lebron-james-joins-push-to-turn-out-ex-felon-vote-in-florida-1303417

No such thing as an ex felon, once you're a felon then its for life barring a court reversal on the felony charge(s)

 

[Opie]

I’ve seen enough of your work to realize that any further exchanges between us would be fruitless. Your flag is clearly planted.  I’ve tried explaining things with my first hand knowledge, hoping you would take a step back and breathe instead of regurgitating right wing links and pretending that you know about things that are clearly outside of your lane. Have a great evening. 

I will.

Just remember...any for against Trump is a vote for Socialism.

You can vote your way into it...but you have to fight your way out of it.

Have a nice day.

 

[dkp993]

Just remember...any for against Trump is a vote for Socialism

Pure hyperbole and fear mongering.

 

[Man In The Box]

I will.

Just remember...any for against Trump is a vote for Socialism.

You can vote your way into it...but you have to fight your way out of it.

Have a nice day.

There’s the other boogeyman. Right on cue. Turn off Fox and get off of Facebook. Get some fresh air. You’ll be much happier, I promise. 

 

[sho nuff]

I will.

Just remember...any for against Trump is a vote for Socialism.

You can vote your way into it...but you have to fight your way out of it.

Have a nice day.

Ahu so fight his truth with a false talking point about socialism?

And yes...mine was the third comment on that...not because its piling on...but because that comment should be called out by many for as bad as it was.