Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Has any President since Lincoln been handed a bigger pile of excrement by his predecessor than Obama? FDR had a much worse economy obvs, but didn't have two seemingly endless foreign wars.
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What is Obama's signature achievement as president? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Riversco
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timschochet
Footballguy
This is correct. I'm going to eventually try to narrate this in the Soviet thread, but the Cold War was won by Truman, Eisenhower, and JFK, with Truman having done most of the work. Reagan was lucky to be close to the finish line.
timschochet
Footballguy
FDR was handed Nazi Germany, which was in many ways the result of the policies of Calvin Coolidge (the last of the isolationists that Ren Lindbergh so admires). So he (FDR) was essentially given the inevitability of a world war.
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
They didn't take power until he was already in office, and world war wasn't inevitable.
Thought that was the scotus. he really didn't do jack until the finish line was steps away
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
It was a relay race and Reagan was the anchor and had the last baton. The Soviets lost the Cold War more than we won it IMO and a lot of the damage was done in the late 50s and 60s.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Has to be the beer summit.
There is so much incorrect in Tim's assessment, but how come this doesn't surprise anyone...It is funny to say that most of the heavy lifting was completed prior to Kennedy's death in '63 yet it took over 25 years to come to fruition with Reagan as a "baton holder".
Dr. Detroit, we weren't winning the cold war in the 50's or 60's. Korean War from 50-53. Russian nuclear proliferation from 49-57. Bay of pigs in '61. It is easy now to see that Russian Communism was unsustainable, but Reagan deserves a lot of credit for finishing off a perceived, and at times, actual threat.
Hating Reagan is interesting. Revisionist history is entertaining as well.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Wow. Way to read me wrong. I don't hate Reagan at all. He's one of my all time favorite Presidents; ranked in my top 10; I've been to the Reagan Library 3 times, as recently as a few months ago.
Nonetheless, his role in winning the Cold War is overrated. Sorry if that displeases you.
Higgs
Footballguy
Racism is ugly, and Obama turned out to be a huge racist. He set back race relations back about 40 years and unfortunately the damage will last a long long time. Such a wasted opportunity for what could have been such a transformational period for the country. America was ready for it. Obama wasn't.
If I misinterpreted you, I'll blame the rye I am sipping too fast. Sorry for the harsh response.
However, I think we are going to disagree on Reagan's role in the fall Soviet Communism. It is easy in retrospect to see and that the house of cards had to fall. Reagan's proactive measures help hasten the fall, especially after an impotent Carter administration. It may have been "time", but Reagan made it happen
Baby Monkey Riding a Pig
Footballguy
America elected Trump. Clearly we weren't ready for it. For somebody under 50, with a HUGE 401k, you sure seem angry. Sad.So full of ####. America was ready alright led by the race baiters Rush, Hannity, BOR, and Trump.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
OBL.
Higgs
Footballguy
Agree. Total revisionist history. I was studying Soviet and US relations at two of the best Universities in the world during the period of 85-89. When I went to study at LSE in September of 1988 there wasn't even an inkling in the US that the Soviet Union was coming apart. Not a whiff of it. When I was at LSE they were just starting to talk about it. Complete bull#### that anyone in the US foresaw in the early or mid 80's what would ultimately transpire in the Fall of 89.
While I t is true that all the Presidents post WWII contributed in some measure to winning the Cold War, Reagan deserves most of the credit. He was strong and resolute when that is exactly what was needed to put the nail in the coffin. For those interested, the Bill O'Reilly books on JFK and Reagan do quite a good job on this topic (and for those who don't know, BO was a HUGE Kennedy fan).
Higgs
Footballguy
So America was ready in 2008, but wasn't ready in 2016? Think about that for a minute.
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Obama was handed a gold mine. An economy whose biggest bubble had just pop and was going to have a huge recivery with any Gober Pyle taking over. There was nothing magical he did.
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Higgs
Footballguy
Exactly. It was like Bill Parcells taking over the 2-14 Patriots. Nowhere to go but up.
Baby Monkey Riding a Pig
Footballguy
Your guy campaigned, and won, based on being totally against every single thing Obama touched. Think about that for a minute.
The General
Footballguy
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Actually very different. The ultra high tax rate structure was destroying the economy and it required fundamental changes to fix it. You can argue he went too far and maybe Clinton's changes were more balanced. But the 'tax the rich' was preventing millions of small businesses from being successful.
Obama did put money in the pockets of a lot of people which provided a temporary boost to economic growth but did nothing really that alter the tax structure. The zero percent interest rates by the fed has been very helpful, but that would have happened regardless of the president.
Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
RBM
Footballguy
Higgs
Footballguy
Exactly. Both of our statements have one thing in common - Obama's Presidency.
America was ready to be post-racial in 2008. We elected a black President with an Islamic sounding name. Instead of Obama and black leadership embracing a post-racial America where everyone is equal under the law and with opportunities to achieve anything, they continued down their same old tired path of identity politics, always assuming the worst in white peoples' intentions. Obama operated as a clear racist and America became disillusioned, even angry. Donald Trump read all this and exploited it. If Obama wasn't such a blatant racist during his Presidency then Donald Trump never gains any traction. Lefties will never see this, but that's what happened. It's clear as a bell.
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RBM
Footballguy
Yeah seems like they all will be going forward. Post 9/11 Bush might be the last time we will have been unified.
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The General
Footballguy
Anyone could have cut taxes and run up a huge debt.
Reagan right place at the right time.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
I think it was getting Jack White to play Mother Nature's Son at the Paul McCartney White House tribute. Stellar.
Higgs
Footballguy
Exactly. They would have raised taxes even more. That's what Lefties do - bigger government and more taxes.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
The Elvis Costello performance of Penny Lane at that McCartney tribute is also stellar. Thank you Obama.
MarvinTScamper
Footballguy
my answer: awesome late night liberal talk show guest and as the guy who would blow endless hours getting his NCAA brackets right for TV.
Loved being on TV. Huge narcissist. When he spoke, markets fell.
Loved being on TV. Huge narcissist. When he spoke, markets fell.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
He made America so great that Trump was the next option.
The General
Footballguy
Since we are generalizing, Republicans like run up big deficits to give .1% an extra serving of the pie while lecturing people about personal freedoms only if they agree with their own. Mixed in with faux patriotic bull####.
The General
Footballguy
And some Neocon would have probably invaded the wrong nation flushing trillions down the john.
Why don't we just give credit for the jobs that Reagan and Obama did instead of guessing that anyone could have done what they did.
I give both of them credit for what they did. Reagan implemented policies which enables businesses to grow and helped pave the way for decades of future growth. Obama put some money in the pockets of the average American and created many temporary jobs thru his infrastructure spending. But to suggest he somehow did something which saved the country from some Great Depression is wrong. Obama eased the pain but did nothing that fundamentally changed the economy. Has he worked with the GOP more and focused even a bit on private sector job growth, it could have been a more effective stimulus.The General said:
squistion
Footballguy
Well, not everybody, this tweet reposting got 10 likes.
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/753767-the-trump-years-we-will-immediately-repeal-and-replace-obama-care-and-nobody-can-do-that-like-me-waitwhat/?page=1697#comment-20093658
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timschochet
Footballguy
Heavy (and Higgs), the issue of what Presidents played a role in winning the Cold War, and how they won it, is a long and complicated one, and I hope you guys will join my discussion in the Soviet Union thread when the time comes and offer your POV (but not Bill O'Reilly's POV, OK Higgs? )
In simplistic terms, my view, which is not revisionist but based on a majority of respected historians, is that Harry Truman essentially won the Cold War. If it were a football game, Truman was the quarterback in the 1st quarter and led the USA to a 35-0 lead. After that all of the Presidents from Eisenhower to Reagan essentially held the lead. Sometimes the Sovietd cut it to 3 touchdowns, sometimes to 2 touchdowns, but that's as close as they got and after Truman's performance the outcome was never truly in doubt.
) In simplistic terms, my view, which is not revisionist but based on a majority of respected historians, is that Harry Truman essentially won the Cold War. If it were a football game, Truman was the quarterback in the 1st quarter and led the USA to a 35-0 lead. After that all of the Presidents from Eisenhower to Reagan essentially held the lead. Sometimes the Sovietd cut it to 3 touchdowns, sometimes to 2 touchdowns, but that's as close as they got and after Truman's performance the outcome was never truly in doubt.
Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
Not possible. Truman was a democrat. Only Republicans can defeat people like communists and terrorists.Heavy (and Higgs), the issue of what Presidents played a role in winning the Cold War, and how they won it, is a long and complicated one, and I hope you guys will join my discussion in the Soviet Union thread when the time comes and offer your POV (but not Bill O'Reilly's POV, OK Higgs?
In simplistic terms, my view, which is not revisionist but based on a majority of respected historians, is that Harry Truman essentially won the Cold War. If it were a football game, Truman was the quarterback in the 1st quarter and led the USA to a 35-0 lead. After that all of the Presidents from Eisenhower to Reagan essentially held the lead. Sometimes the Sovietd cut it to 3 touchdowns, sometimes to 2 touchdowns, but that's as close as they got and after Truman's performance the outcome was never truly in doubt.
That is pretty revisionistic. No one thought we had a 35-0 lead during the 69's, 70's or 80's except for maybe Reagan. All those same historian experts were mocking Reagan for wanting to drive a nail into the coffin if the Soviet Empire. The experts wanted to negotiate a tie and thought Reagan was a loon for even thinking the Soviet Empire would collapse if pushed. Then when it did collapse, the experts then said it was inevitable. We will never know for sure any alternative outcome had Reagan not been Presudent, but Reagan was one of the few people who predicted the Soviet crash and put a lot of effort in assisting it.Heavy (and Higgs), the issue of what Presidents played a role in winning the Cold War, and how they won it, is a long and complicated one, and I hope you guys will join my discussion in the Soviet Union thread when the time comes and offer your POV (but not Bill O'Reilly's POV, OK Higgs?
In simplistic terms, my view, which is not revisionist but based on a majority of respected historians, is that Harry Truman essentially won the Cold War. If it were a football game, Truman was the quarterback in the 1st quarter and led the USA to a 35-0 lead. After that all of the Presidents from Eisenhower to Reagan essentially held the lead. Sometimes the Sovietd cut it to 3 touchdowns, sometimes to 2 touchdowns, but that's as close as they got and after Truman's performance the outcome was never truly in doubt.
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