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Where would you rank Jordy Nelson in terms of pure talent? (1 Viewer)

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Jordy is a fantastic receiver but obviously benefits from Rodgers' insane accuracy. But Jordy is big, tough, polished and fast. Watching him last night got me to thinking about where he'd rank among wideouts. Say every wideout was put into a pool and you had to pick them out first before you put a team around them. Where would you rank Jordy?

I am thinking in the top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5 to be honest. He's not Calvin. Nobody is. Although rarely ever gets caught from behind, like Calvin did on that 86 yarder. I don't recall that ever happening actually but my memory isn't always the best.

Larry gets the notoriety because of his polish but I don't see him do anything Jordy can't do. He's actually probably the best comp that I can think of for Jordy.

Demaryus is great as well but I'm not so sure he does anything Jordy can't do either.

Julio is dynamite and so is AJ Green so I think he'd go behind those two.

Calvin

Dez

AJ

Julio

Jordy???

Thoughts. I'd love to hear an argument as to a weakness Jordy has. I don't see any at all.

 
Jordy is a fantastic receiver but obviously benefits from Rodgers' insane accuracy. But Jordy is big, tough, polished and fast. Watching him last night got me to thinking about where he'd rank among wideouts. Say every wideout was put into a pool and you had to pick them out first before you put a team around them. Where would you rank Jordy?

I am thinking in the top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5 to be honest. He's not Calvin. Nobody is. Although rarely ever gets caught from behind, like Calvin did on that 86 yarder. I don't recall that ever happening actually but my memory isn't always the best.

Larry gets the notoriety because of his polish but I don't see him do anything Jordy can't do. He's actually probably the best comp that I can think of for Jordy.

Demaryus is great as well but I'm not so sure he does anything Jordy can't do either.

Julio is dynamite and so is AJ Green so I think he'd go behind those two.

Calvin

Dez

AJ

Julio

Jordy???

Thoughts. I'd love to hear an argument as to a weakness Jordy has. I don't see any at all.
Demaryius Thomas ran a 4.38 40 compared to Nelson's 4.51. Thomas is also about 10-15 pounds heavier. So Thomas is bigger and faster. I like Nelson - but he's not top 5 in terms of talent. Top 10, right now? Maybe - but not top 5.

 
Jordy is a fantastic receiver but obviously benefits from Rodgers' insane accuracy. But Jordy is big, tough, polished and fast. Watching him last night got me to thinking about where he'd rank among wideouts. Say every wideout was put into a pool and you had to pick them out first before you put a team around them. Where would you rank Jordy?

I am thinking in the top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5 to be honest. He's not Calvin. Nobody is. Although rarely ever gets caught from behind, like Calvin did on that 86 yarder. I don't recall that ever happening actually but my memory isn't always the best.

Larry gets the notoriety because of his polish but I don't see him do anything Jordy can't do. He's actually probably the best comp that I can think of for Jordy.

Demaryus is great as well but I'm not so sure he does anything Jordy can't do either.

Julio is dynamite and so is AJ Green so I think he'd go behind those two.

Calvin

Dez

AJ

Julio

Jordy???

Thoughts. I'd love to hear an argument as to a weakness Jordy has. I don't see any at all.
Demaryius Thomas ran a 4.38 40 compared to Nelson's 4.51. Thomas is also about 10-15 pounds heavier. So Thomas is bigger and faster. I like Nelson - but he's not top 5 in terms of talent. Top 10, right now? Maybe - but not top 5.
Just so everyone is on the same page -- are we talking talent, or athletic ability/measurables? Because this is a silly thread if its merely measurables since arithmetic isn't that hard.

 
I'd probably put Josh Gordon ahead of him too in terms of raw talent.

If we're not just talking about tall guys, we can throw Percy Harvin into the discussion.

Jordy might be Top 10 right now. Definitely in the Top 20.

 
Jordy is a fantastic receiver but obviously benefits from Rodgers' insane accuracy. But Jordy is big, tough, polished and fast. Watching him last night got me to thinking about where he'd rank among wideouts. Say every wideout was put into a pool and you had to pick them out first before you put a team around them. Where would you rank Jordy?

I am thinking in the top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5 to be honest. He's not Calvin. Nobody is. Although rarely ever gets caught from behind, like Calvin did on that 86 yarder. I don't recall that ever happening actually but my memory isn't always the best.

Larry gets the notoriety because of his polish but I don't see him do anything Jordy can't do. He's actually probably the best comp that I can think of for Jordy.

Demaryus is great as well but I'm not so sure he does anything Jordy can't do either.

Julio is dynamite and so is AJ Green so I think he'd go behind those two.

Calvin

Dez

AJ

Julio

Jordy???

Thoughts. I'd love to hear an argument as to a weakness Jordy has. I don't see any at all.
Demaryius Thomas ran a 4.38 40 compared to Nelson's 4.51. Thomas is also about 10-15 pounds heavier. So Thomas is bigger and faster. I like Nelson - but he's not top 5 in terms of talent. Top 10, right now? Maybe - but not top 5.
Ok so he's probably faster. Has he been timed after his achilles injury? Demaryus is a great player no doubt.

 
Dez is not number 2. He may think he is but he isn't. I watched yesterday and although he is a freak, he can't separate at all.

1.Calvin

2.AJ

3.Fitz

4.Julio

5.DT

 
I think there are parts of Jordy's game that make up for the raw talent that others (like Harvin, Gordon...) have.

His ability on the sidelines to make tough catches and stay in bounds...those tight catches where he keeps concentration.

Top 10...I can buy that...but don't think he is top 5

 
:confused: His worst game this season is 5 for 82.
:goodposting:

Anyone who waits for a big game from Jordy Nelson is not going to have to wait long. He's tied with Dez for most receiving TDs since the start of 2011 (now one ahead of Calvin), despite missing time and playing injured in 2012.

 
He's truly special. He really is.

Pretty crazy that only three players on the Packers roster have ever played for any other team. They home grew Jordy for sure but he showed flashes early.

 
I think he lacks top end speed (sure he ran away from the vikings defense but so has everyone else this year). But that is about it, those two TD throws rodgers made last night were incredible and the 1st nelson TD catch was ridiculous

 
I think he lacks top end speed (sure he ran away from the vikings defense but so has everyone else this year). But that is about it, those two TD throws rodgers made last night were incredible and the 1st nelson TD catch was ridiculous
No one ever catches Jordy when he is off to the races. This is why his TD numbers and yards per catch are silly.

 
I think he lacks top end speed (sure he ran away from the vikings defense but so has everyone else this year). But that is about it, those two TD throws rodgers made last night were incredible and the 1st nelson TD catch was ridiculous
Find me a clip of Jordy getting caught from behind. I don't recall it. His yards per catch is one of the best in the NFL. Torrey Smith and Josh Gordon are higher but they are more one trick ponies.

 
I assume there's some type of SemiOfficial Rating system similar to the QB rating that takes into account the measurables as well as the immeasurables, right?

Personally I think Marshall and Welker belong in the discussion.

 
I'm tired of hearing how GB's WRs are elite... They are not. This same question was debated when Jennings was around a couple years ago, and though he was a good WR, we've now seen he is not elite. And I would argue that Jennings is better than Nelson.

QB skill, accuracy and timing and QB/WR knowledge of the system and of each other makes the relationship.

Jordy is fast, has above-average hands and runs decent routes. But in any other system not including Aaron Rodgers he'd be a WR2.

Fire away...

 
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Unquestioned top 10

Mega, Dez, AJ, Marshall, Julio, DT, Fitz, & Mike Wallace (hahahahahahaha) are the only guys I would say hands down are better.

 
I'm tired of hearing how GB's WRs are elite... They are not. This same question was debated when Jennings was around a couple years ago, and though he was a good WR, we've now seen he is not elite. And I would argue that Jennings is better than Nelson.

QB skill, accuracy and timing and QB/WR knowledge of the system and of each other makes the relationship.

Jordy is fast, has above-average hands and runs decent routes. But in any other system he'd be a WR2.

Fire away...
No se puede estar hablando en serio???

 
I'm tired of hearing how GB's WRs are elite... They are not. This same question was debated when Jennings was around a couple years ago, and though he was a good WR, we've now seen he is not elite. And I would argue that Jennings is better than Nelson.

QB skill, accuracy and timing and QB/WR knowledge of the system and of each other makes the relationship.

Jordy is fast, has above-average hands and runs decent routes. But in any other system he'd be a WR2.

Fire away...
No se puede estar hablando en serio???
Si.

 
Gordon is no one-trick pony. In terms of overall ability he's basically the next Andre Johnson - that said, the drug program issues and his lack of effort with bad QBs mean I wouldn't have a big problem with ranking Jordy above him. Blackmon may also belong in the discussion, on a similar note.

Jordy clearly seems like top 10 material to me, though. He's a faster Reggie Wayne, what's not to like?

 
I'm tired of hearing how GB's WRs are elite... They are not. This same question was debated when Jennings was around a couple years ago, and though he was a good WR, we've now seen he is not elite. And I would argue that Jennings is better than Nelson.

QB skill, accuracy and timing and QB/WR knowledge of the system and of each other makes the relationship.

Jordy is fast, has above-average hands and runs decent routes. But in any other system not including Aaron Rodgers he'd be a WR2.

Fire away...
It's not all that long ago that Jordy seemed to have below average hands. He used to drive people nuts dropping very catchable balls. It appears he's figured it out.

 
Gordon is no one-trick pony. In terms of overall ability he's basically the next Andre Johnson - that said, the drug program issues and his lack of effort with bad QBs mean I wouldn't have a big problem with ranking Jordy above him. Blackmon may also belong in the discussion, on a similar note.

Jordy clearly seems like top 10 material to me, though. He's a faster Reggie Wayne, what's not to like?
Nelson is better after the catch, Wayne has better hands.

 
Jordy is a fantastic receiver but obviously benefits from Rodgers' insane accuracy. But Jordy is big, tough, polished and fast. Watching him last night got me to thinking about where he'd rank among wideouts. Say every wideout was put into a pool and you had to pick them out first before you put a team around them. Where would you rank Jordy?

I am thinking in the top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5 to be honest. He's not Calvin. Nobody is. Although rarely ever gets caught from behind, like Calvin did on that 86 yarder. I don't recall that ever happening actually but my memory isn't always the best.

Larry gets the notoriety because of his polish but I don't see him do anything Jordy can't do. He's actually probably the best comp that I can think of for Jordy.

Demaryus is great as well but I'm not so sure he does anything Jordy can't do either.

Julio is dynamite and so is AJ Green so I think he'd go behind those two.

Calvin

Dez

AJ

Julio

Jordy???

Thoughts. I'd love to hear an argument as to a weakness Jordy has. I don't see any at all.
Demaryius Thomas ran a 4.38 40 compared to Nelson's 4.51. Thomas is also about 10-15 pounds heavier. So Thomas is bigger and faster. I like Nelson - but he's not top 5 in terms of talent. Top 10, right now? Maybe - but not top 5.
Just so everyone is on the same page -- are we talking talent, or athletic ability/measurables? Because this is a silly thread if its merely measurables since arithmetic isn't that hard.
Note that my response was to the comment "not sure sure DT can do anything Jordy can't do" - if DT is faster, then he is faster. Faster + bigger also typically means harder to tackle. So the line between measurables and talent is somewhat blurry. That's not to suggest that all we look at is numbers, but to somehow suggest that the two aren't at least somewhat related - and trying to somehow distill them out into two completely separate factors is impossible, if not silly.

 
I'm tired of hearing how GB's WRs are elite... They are not. This same question was debated when Jennings was around a couple years ago, and though he was a good WR, we've now seen he is not elite. And I would argue that Jennings is better than Nelson.

QB skill, accuracy and timing and QB/WR knowledge of the system and of each other makes the relationship.

Jordy is fast, has above-average hands and runs decent routes. But in any other system not including Aaron Rodgers he'd be a WR2.

Fire away...
It's not all that long ago that Jordy seemed to have below average hands. He used to drive people nuts dropping very catchable balls. It appears he's figured it out.
Don't get me wrong, Jordy's a good, reliable receiver who could start for any team in the league. I just don't think he's "special", and the talk of him being considered in the top-10 overall is just silly. If I had the patience to look back 2-3 years ago when there were several topics discussing this very thing with regard to Greg Jennings, folks were putting him in the top-5...

It's nonsense. Aaron Rodgers, like other elite QBs, elevate the good or very good WR to elite. It's as simple as that.

 
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Nelson is 3rd in the league in catch rate at 72%, 3rd in yards per target at 12.0, while only 1.6% behind Calvin in team target percentage. He's 5th in touchdowns.

To put that ridiculous combination of catch rate and yards per target in perspective, he's 7th in yards despite being 41st in targets (Rodgers is 17th in pass attempts).

 
I can't measure Top 5 talent.

But due to a number of variables, I feel he's due for a Top 5 finish in 2013.

 
The guy catches everything thrown his way, it seems. Scores lots of touchdowns, blocks well, seems to be a good teammate..you never see him pouting or calling for the ball more in the media. He's a top receiver...anyway you slice it. Not sure how to quantify talent after you get past the freaks of nature like Megatron, AJ and Dez.

 
When Nelson caught 9 for 160+ and 3 tds from Matt Flynn a couple years ago, was that due to Flynn being an elite QB or was that just a system performance?

 
Nelson is 3rd in the league in catch rate at 72%, 3rd in yards per target at 12.0, while only 1.6% behind Calvin in team target percentage. He's 5th in touchdowns.

To put that ridiculous combination of catch rate and yards per target in perspective, he's 7th in yards despite being 41st in targets (Rodgers is 17th in pass attempts).
Yards per Target already accounts for catch rate. Yards per target = catch% * yards per reception. Counting catch% a second time is just double-counting.

That 12.0 yards per target figure stands on its own, though. It's pretty sick. It's also business as usual for Nelson, who averaged 13.2 YPT in 2011 and 10.2 YPT in 2012 (despite playing most of the season hurt)

 
When Nelson caught 9 for 160+ and 3 tds from Matt Flynn a couple years ago, was that due to Flynn being an elite QB or was that just a system performance?
You mean the game when neither team played defense (Green Bay won 44-41)? Stafford had 520 yards(!) and Flynn had 480. Yes, there are statistical outliers to a player's performance. But I can play your "but what about that one time..." game too, if you wish me to find a situation where Nelson flopped?

 
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Jordy is a fantastic receiver but obviously benefits from Rodgers' insane accuracy. But Jordy is big, tough, polished and fast. Watching him last night got me to thinking about where he'd rank among wideouts. Say every wideout was put into a pool and you had to pick them out first before you put a team around them. Where would you rank Jordy?

I am thinking in the top 10 for sure, possibly in the top 5 to be honest. He's not Calvin. Nobody is. Although rarely ever gets caught from behind, like Calvin did on that 86 yarder. I don't recall that ever happening actually but my memory isn't always the best.

Larry gets the notoriety because of his polish but I don't see him do anything Jordy can't do. He's actually probably the best comp that I can think of for Jordy.

Demaryus is great as well but I'm not so sure he does anything Jordy can't do either.

Julio is dynamite and so is AJ Green so I think he'd go behind those two.

Calvin

Dez

AJ

Julio

Jordy???

Thoughts. I'd love to hear an argument as to a weakness Jordy has. I don't see any at all.
Demaryius Thomas ran a 4.38 40 compared to Nelson's 4.51. Thomas is also about 10-15 pounds heavier. So Thomas is bigger and faster. I like Nelson - but he's not top 5 in terms of talent. Top 10, right now? Maybe - but not top 5.
Yeah, apparently the OP missed that WR screen DT took to the house yesterday. And that wasn't the first one of his career.

I don't think Jordy scores a TD there.

 
I would call him top10 for sure but I don't think I could put him in the top5 due to the offense. Talent wise he might be there, but the rest of the skill positions in GB cap his upside in my opinion of being that top5 player. For the rest of this year I think he definitely is in that elite category though.

 
I'm tired of hearing how GB's WRs are elite... They are not. This same question was debated when Jennings was around a couple years ago, and though he was a good WR, we've now seen he is not elite. And I would argue that Jennings is better than Nelson.

QB skill, accuracy and timing and QB/WR knowledge of the system and of each other makes the relationship.

Jordy is fast, has above-average hands and runs decent routes. But in any other system not including Aaron Rodgers he'd be a WR2.

Fire away...
It's not all that long ago that Jordy seemed to have below average hands. He used to drive people nuts dropping very catchable balls. It appears he's figured it out.
Don't get me wrong, Jordy's a good, reliable receiver who could start for any team in the league. I just don't think he's "special", and the talk of him being considered in the top-10 overall is just silly. If I had the patience to look back 2-3 years ago when there were several topics discussing this very thing with regard to Greg Jennings, folks were putting him in the top-5...

It's nonsense. Aaron Rodgers, like other elite QBs, elevate the good or very good WR to elite. It's as simple as that.
Its not two to three years ago though.,

Jennings was a very good WR. Ran great routes.

But does not have the speed of Nelson...nor do I think he can make some of the sideline catches Nelson has made.

 
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To answer the actual question of the poster, he is a top 20 talent. He benefits from from Rodgers a lot. He has good chemistry with Rodgers and when Rodgers scrambles they seem to know what the other is thinking. Talent wise though all these guys have more talent

Calvin

AJ Green

Julio

Dez

DT

Andre Johnson

Brandon Marshall

Blackmon

Gordon

Fitzgerald

Crabtree

V. Jax

These guys are right around him but have different talent

Welker

Cobb

Harvin

Cruz

Bowe

Nick

White

 
Jordy might not have freakish, rare athletic talents like a few of top end WR's in the league, but I think he's still one of the best in the NFL considering all the parts of his game. A few things having watched him since college:

I think he lacks top end speed (sure he ran away from the vikings defense but so has everyone else this year). But that is about it, those two TD throws rodgers made last night were incredible and the 1st nelson TD catch was ridiculous
This is actually backwards. The strength of Nelson's game is his top end speed. He doesn't have the short area explosion or quickness of a guy like Cobb or some of the freaks mentioned in the top five, but once he gets into top gear he rarely if ever gets caught from behind. That's why he's the primary deep threat in the Packers offense, if you go watch 2011 Nelson highlights its largely him running vertical trees right past coverage down-field.

That Favre guy is essentially wrong about pretty much everything as well so not going to bother responding to most of the nonsense in that post, Nelson has a bunch of nice qualities in how he plays the position:

-LIS, fantastic top end speed that makes him a legitimate vertical threat

-Works outside the boundary along the sideline as well as any WR in the NFL. Definitely special in that regard.

-Like most of GB's WR's under McCarthy, both a savvy route-runner and plays with a great feel for the defense. Jimmy Robinson (when he was here as WR coach) placed a big emphasis on fundamentals of the WR position, a tradition that Edgar Bennett has carried on with. GB's WR's are the best in the league when it comes to getting open once the pocket or plays breaks down and Rodgers starts scrambling around, and being able to feel a defense effectively means even slowpokes like Boykin still manage to get separation from NFL defensive backs pretty consisently. IDK why the other guy called him an "okay route runner" when its been a strength of Cobb, Nelson, Jones, and was one of the primary facets of Jennings' game that made him so successful in Green Bay as well. GB reminds me a lot of Peyton-era Indy in that regard with Harrison, Wayne, etc, lots of good route runners that can feel the defense and create openings for the QB.

-One of the best (again) aspects of the GB offensive scheme is that they move all the WR's around; all of them can and do play the X, Y, and Z, so the Packers can shift to favor match-ups easily. Go watch the the all-22 from yesterday and watch them play Nelson in the slot almost the whole game, impressive considering he's usually considered an outside WR who isn't know for his short burst, quickness, or lateral agility. Nelson can win everywhere on the field, he doesn't have to be lined up in a given spot to find success.

-He (and James Jones) are both particularly strong guys as well, I've seen Jordy throw his fair share of impressive stiff arms, blocks, and use his large size to create extra yards by bouncing off tacklers. He's not Brandon Marshall or anything but he can definitely create his own YAC

And I think it's important to remember its not like Nelson was some also-ran scrub WR GB just dumpster picked. He was a borderline first round pick out of Kansas State solely off tape he put together his senior year, roasted NFL talent like Aqib Talib at school, and finished second in Biletnikoff award voting to Michael Crabtree and his video game Texas Tech numbers. You don't get drafted that high if there isn't some expectation that there are good qualities in your game, it just took Nelson a bit to get going. Just calling him a "white receiver" sells him short by painting him as just some quick white slot guy.

If you include all those aspects of his game, you get a top ten receiver IMO. More of a sum of his parts than a look at X facet of my game player.

EDIT: Jennings was elite in his time with Green Bay. The injuries the past few years I think have done some things to his game, but a few years ago it could be argued he was the second best route runner in the NFL after Reggie Wayne. His short-area movement skills (were) and are still IMO ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBzkCCUtEO4

Couldn't find the clip but one of my favorite connections between the two was a little short pass Rodgers flipped to him in the 2007 Cowboys game where he relieved an injured Favre where Jennings makes a great little jump cut move and navigates through a ton of defensive players to gain a quick 15+ yard completion, really typified what made Jennings fun to watch here.

 
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Talent is so multifaceted that it's real tough to ever get a decent apples to apples comparison without a better operational definition.

It's obvious though that most folks view talent as simply a product of physical measureables (particularly height, weight, and speed) versus less obvious criteria like an ability to set up routes sequentially or coverage recognition or timing.

 
Talent is so multifaceted that it's real tough to ever get a decent apples to apples comparison without a better operational definition.

It's obvious though that most folks view talent as simply a product of physical measureables (particularly height, weight, and speed) versus less obvious criteria like an ability to set up routes sequentially or coverage recognition or timing.
Agreed. How do I compare Jordy Nelson's talent to Randall Cobb's, or Wes Welker's, or Demaryius Thomas's? They're all radically different receivers with radically different skills. At some point, it's like comparing LeSean McCoy's talent with Jordan Cameron's. Different guys, different skills, different roles, both brutally effective.

I would say that if we define "talent" as a player's god-given physical ability and "skill" as a player's mastery of his craft, then Jordy probably is not one of the 10 most talented receivers, but he is certainly one of the 10 most skilled.

 

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