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Whitehurst - Traded to Seattle (2 Viewers)

I cannot imagine how much time a professional scout spends breaking down film. Believe me, I don't envy them at all. I take no offense, breaking down games is something I do for fun.

Just find it funny when people use the argument "Oh, I see, we should all listen to an internet poster over a scout/gm/owner . . . etc." Ridiculous. If you want to say that Charlie Whitehurst will be good. Great, add something substantive regarding him that makes you see that. Same if you think he will be bad. Using the "well, he must be good if 2 teams were competing for him" or "He must be bad because he was a backup" just doesn't do it for me.
:goodposting: It's a hobby, hence - amateur. Like Balco, who posts some GREAT threads that get little attention on this forum breaking down college tape I like watching players develop and make notes throughout the process - watching games (live and recorded) and following off field progress (in-season and offseason). I watch more than most football fans, and do so for somewhat different reasons (being a fan of lousy teams helps), but not as much as guys who do it for a living. I'm wrong about some (like anyone), but I'm right more than I'm wrong. I also keep an open mind, if something I didn't know about the player gets brought to the table I may change my mind. Two days later and...nothing...a lot of people were easily hooked though...shocking.Whitehurst hasn't shown anything outside of San Diego's coaching staff he may be any different than when he came out of school - an NFL arm with no head. Trade a future 3rd for him? Ok, maybe, I don't agree but that's the sort of trade you make for a backup. Trade down 20 spots in the 2nd and give him $10 mil? That's just silly.
:lmao: Let me get this straight. You only have televised games to use for your "game tape" and you find it suprising you cant find anything to analyze Whitehurst with. Do you think NFL teams(professional scouts) are only using CBS's coverage for their game tape?
 
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]

 
When people argued over Brady vs. Manning, I don't recall anyone saying they had no opinion because they didn't have access to coaches tape.

 
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
It is not possible for me to disagree with this statement any more. My #1 tool for analyzing players talent is listening to NFL GM's and scouts.

 
When people argued over Brady vs. Manning, I don't recall anyone saying they had no opinion because they didn't have access to coaches tape.
I think we are talking about players that havnt played much, if at all, in the NFL. At least i was.
 
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Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
It is not possible for me to disagree with this statement any more. My #1 tool for analyzing players talent is listening to NFL GM's and scouts.
It's a tool, it's not gospel. I prefer to create a baseline opinion then review what I can find from people like scouts to compare and contrast to my notes, I'll flip it in some cases (i.e. never hearing of Carlton Mitchell before January) but find I have the most success when done the former way. Reading what Seattle's GM said about Whitehurst post trade leads me to believe he isn't someone I'd be looking to go to for football advice. Liking 'the way the guy spins the football out of his hand when he throws' or whatever he said along those lines should be a huge red flag. When asked why you think this guy is the future at QB I would hope the first thing that comes to mind is NOT how he throws the football. Yes, he throws it well, never said he didn't. It's where he throws the ball that makes me think he won't cut it as a starter. He throws it to the other team, into the ground, over heads, and to the wrong guy way too often to be an effective QB. Maybe that'll change, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
Pete Carroll and John Schnieder, who actually have been employed by several NFL teams, have looked at everyone of Whitehurst's passes from Clemson and SD multiple times (listen to his interview on KJR Mitch in the Morning here: http://www.kjram.com/main.html).They think Whitehurst has the tools to succced. Your opinion is he won't be successful. Guess what? When he actually gets on the field, we shall see. Until he actually plays, no one knows for sure. Am I a pro Whitehurst guy? I guess because I like his chances better than any of the QB in FA that were available and I like his chances out of the gate over Bradford or Clausen, especially when you factor in that it will take a top 6 pick to land either of those guys and a HUGE signing bonus, I guess I am pro Whitehurst.

And what exactly are you bringing to the table besides an opinion backed up by nothing: he lost games by himself and contributed to to others? What specifically does that say? Nothing. So I shouldn't listen to NFL scouts or GMs but I should listen to this crap from an amateur scout? Get real :thumbup:

 
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
It is not possible for me to disagree with this statement any more. My #1 tool for analyzing players talent is listening to NFL GM's and scouts.
It's a tool, it's not gospel. I prefer to create a baseline opinion then review what I can find from people like scouts to compare and contrast to my notes, I'll flip it in some cases (i.e. never hearing of Carlton Mitchell before January) but find I have the most success when done the former way. Reading what Seattle's GM said about Whitehurst post trade leads me to believe he isn't someone I'd be looking to go to for football advice. Liking 'the way the guy spins the football out of his hand when he throws' or whatever he said along those lines should be a huge red flag. When asked why you think this guy is the future at QB I would hope the first thing that comes to mind is NOT how he throws the football. Yes, he throws it well, never said he didn't. It's where he throws the ball that makes me think he won't cut it as a starter. He throws it to the other team, into the ground, over heads, and to the wrong guy way too often to be an effective QB. Maybe that'll change, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I dont think anyone is saying Whitehurst is the next Peyton Manning. Based on the fact that there were at least two teams interested in him as a possible starting QB, he is worth a FA pickup in dynasty leagues though. You coming on here and saying you are an ameteur scout, and you dont think he will succeed weighs into my decision 0%.
 
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
Oh, we think you're full of ####.I watched him in college too. And I remember thinking he had the tools to make it at the next level. Every bad thing you mention can be corrected with coaching. He's now spent four years with the Chargers. That includes being coached by Norv Turner and watching Philip Rivers in every game and every practice.

Here's the difference between you and me. I'm not so full of myself that I think I can predict how good Whitehurst is now based upon what I saw four years ago at another level. I accept that people with much more knowledge of him and much more knowledge of the game than me--people whose jobs depend on making such decisions--have invested time and money in him thinking that he will help their football team.

Relying on what you saw four years ago to judge a player today is what will keep you an average FF player.

 
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
Oh, we think you're full of ####.I watched him in college too. And I remember thinking he had the tools to make it at the next level. Every bad thing you mention can be corrected with coaching. He's now spent four years with the Chargers. That includes being coached by Norv Turner and watching Philip Rivers in every game and every practice.

Here's the difference between you and me. I'm not so full of myself that I think I can predict how good Whitehurst is now based upon what I saw four years ago at another level. I accept that people with much more knowledge of him and much more knowledge of the game than me--people whose jobs depend on making such decisions--have invested time and money in him thinking that he will help their football team.

Relying on what you saw four years ago to judge a player today is what will keep you an average FF player.
:wub: I just listened to Tommy Bowden, Whitehurst's college coach (http://www.mynorthwest.com/resources/audio_headlines/audio_player.php?a=15803&f=/kiro/2010/03/03182010193343.mp3)

Bowden was asked about Whitehurst's TD to INT ratio at Clemson and simply said he did not play behind a good O-line and in a couple of Bowl games was "absolutely killed" and he also mentioned that Charlie had three different O coordinators and an inexperienced group of WRs who ran wrong routes and had a lot of tipped balls that went for INTs. But the amateur scout didn't bring any of that up in his assessment.

 
Bowden was asked about Whitehurst's TD to INT ratio at Clemson and simply said he did not play behind a good O-line and in a couple of Bowl games was "absolutely killed" . . .
Reports at the time said that Whitehurst outperformed Cutler during the week of Senior Bowl practices. And Whitehurst definitely outperformed Cutler during the Senior Bowl game (where Cutler was generally ineffective and Whitehurst was MVP).That's worth only what it's worth, but I think it goes against the idea that Whitehurst is a complete bum who will inevitably set the Seahawks back three years.
 
Bowden was asked about Whitehurst's TD to INT ratio at Clemson and simply said he did not play behind a good O-line and in a couple of Bowl games was "absolutely killed" . . .
Reports at the time said that Whitehurst outperformed Cutler during the week of Senior Bowl practices. And Whitehurst definitely outperformed Cutler during the Senior Bowl game (where Cutler was generally ineffective and Whitehurst was MVP).That's worth only what it's worth, but I think it goes against the idea that Whitehurst is a complete bum who will inevitably set the Seahawks back three years.
Exactly. When Whitehurst gets his chance to play we'll find out. He will either be good or he won't. Seattle will have made a bad deal or maybe not.
 
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
Oh, we think you're full of ####.I watched him in college too. And I remember thinking he had the tools to make it at the next level. Every bad thing you mention can be corrected with coaching. He's now spent four years with the Chargers. That includes being coached by Norv Turner and watching Philip Rivers in every game and every practice.

Here's the difference between you and me. I'm not so full of myself that I think I can predict how good Whitehurst is now based upon what I saw four years ago at another level. I accept that people with much more knowledge of him and much more knowledge of the game than me--people whose jobs depend on making such decisions--have invested time and money in him thinking that he will help their football team.

Relying on what you saw four years ago to judge a player today is what will keep you an average FF player.
Not to mention the fact that Carroll seems to be pretty good with developing QBs.
 
Mr. Bojangles said:
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
Pete Carroll and John Schnieder, who actually have been employed by several NFL teams, have looked at everyone of Whitehurst's passes from Clemson and SD multiple times (listen to his interview on KJR Mitch in the Morning here: http://www.kjram.com/main.html).They think Whitehurst has the tools to succced. Your opinion is he won't be successful. Guess what? When he actually gets on the field, we shall see. Until he actually plays, no one knows for sure. Am I a pro Whitehurst guy? I guess because I like his chances better than any of the QB in FA that were available and I like his chances out of the gate over Bradford or Clausen, especially when you factor in that it will take a top 6 pick to land either of those guys and a HUGE signing bonus, I guess I am pro Whitehurst.

And what exactly are you bringing to the table besides an opinion backed up by nothing: he lost games by himself and contributed to to others? What specifically does that say? Nothing.
No, it says he made awful decisions at bad times (bad throw, wrong read, bad decision - INT) that led to Clemson losing the game. Physical tools, especially in QB's, is vastly over rated. Having a guy that's 6'5 235 with a strong arm and enough athleticism to avoid the rush is great, but it means nothing if he's not accurate and makes bad decisions...but I guess there's something wrong with saying you don't think someone will be successful. Making predictions, forecasting, speculating, etc., they're stupid aren't they? We should just wait and see with everyone? even if the guys talking him up (Terry Bowden and Pete Carroll) lack success at their respective jobs?I find it funny that all this got started with me just saying the move was silly, how dare I come up with my own opinion! We need to wait and see with everyone! I'll try to remember all that next time I post an opinion on FBG :goodposting: :unsure:

 
Mr. Bojangles said:
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
Pete Carroll and John Schnieder, who actually have been employed by several NFL teams, have looked at everyone of Whitehurst's passes from Clemson and SD multiple times (listen to his interview on KJR Mitch in the Morning here: http://www.kjram.com/main.html).They think Whitehurst has the tools to succced. Your opinion is he won't be successful. Guess what? When he actually gets on the field, we shall see. Until he actually plays, no one knows for sure. Am I a pro Whitehurst guy? I guess because I like his chances better than any of the QB in FA that were available and I like his chances out of the gate over Bradford or Clausen, especially when you factor in that it will take a top 6 pick to land either of those guys and a HUGE signing bonus, I guess I am pro Whitehurst.

And what exactly are you bringing to the table besides an opinion backed up by nothing: he lost games by himself and contributed to to others? What specifically does that say? Nothing.
No, it says he made awful decisions at bad times (bad throw, wrong read, bad decision - INT) that led to Clemson losing the game. Physical tools, especially in QB's, is vastly over rated. Having a guy that's 6'5 235 with a strong arm and enough athleticism to avoid the rush is great, but it means nothing if he's not accurate and makes bad decisions...but I guess there's something wrong with saying you don't think someone will be successful. Making predictions, forecasting, speculating, etc., they're stupid aren't they? We should just wait and see with everyone? even if the guys talking him up (Terry Bowden and Pete Carroll) lack success at their respective jobs?I find it funny that all this got started with me just saying the move was silly, how dare I come up with my own opinion! We need to wait and see with everyone! I'll try to remember all that next time I post an opinion on FBG :goodposting: :topcat:
You seem to be moving the mark.It's no that everyone else is "pro Whitehurst."

It's not that people are attacking you because you have an opinion.

Saying that a swap of 2nds and a giving away a third round pick set Seattle back three years is just plain silly regardless of how poor Whitehurst may play. Add to that your cocksureness in being correct about a player that anyone outside of the professional NFL community has seen almost none of for about four years and you were asking for people to jump on you a bit.

Oh yeah. That "amateur scout" thing is a great way to attract negative attention as well. That was just silly.

 
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You seem to be moving the mark.It's no that everyone else is "pro Whitehurst."It's not that people are attacking you because you have an opinion.Saying that a swap of 2nds and a giving away a third round pick set Seattle back three years is just plain silly regardless of how poor Whitehurst may play. Add to that your cocksureness in being correct about a player that anyone outside of the professional NFL community has seen almost none of for about four years and you were asking for people to jump on you a bit.Oh yeah. That "amateur scout" thing is a great way to attract negative attention as well. That was just silly.
:lol:
 
I find it funny that all this got started with me just saying the move was silly, how dare I come up with my own opinion! We need to wait and see with everyone! I'll try to remember all that next time I post an opinion on FBG :lol: :unsure:
Leave the revisionist history for times when your OP isn't just a keystroke away.
Sorry Hawks fans, Carroll just set the franchise back 3 years minimum.
The silly thing was your OP. And it became sillier when you kept trying to justify it.
 
FWIW, and not defending the 3 years back comment, I think MAC does an excellent job as an "amateur scout" and he is one of only a few guys here whose rankings I gather for my consensus. :coffee:

 
Bowden was asked about Whitehurst's TD to INT ratio at Clemson and simply said he did not play behind a good O-line and in a couple of Bowl games was "absolutely killed" . . .
Reports at the time said that Whitehurst outperformed Cutler during the week of Senior Bowl practices. And Whitehurst definitely outperformed Cutler during the Senior Bowl game (where Cutler was generally ineffective and Whitehurst was MVP).That's worth only what it's worth, but I think it goes against the idea that Whitehurst is a complete bum who will inevitably set the Seahawks back three years.
Whitehurst was not MVP of any senior bowl. Charlie Frye was the MVP in 2005.
 
Bowden was asked about Whitehurst's TD to INT ratio at Clemson and simply said he did not play behind a good O-line and in a couple of Bowl games was "absolutely killed" . . .
Reports at the time said that Whitehurst outperformed Cutler during the week of Senior Bowl practices. And Whitehurst definitely outperformed Cutler during the Senior Bowl game (where Cutler was generally ineffective and Whitehurst was MVP).That's worth only what it's worth, but I think it goes against the idea that Whitehurst is a complete bum who will inevitably set the Seahawks back three years.
Whitehurst was not MVP of any senior bowl. Charlie Frye was the MVP in 2005.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2310044
Whitehurst, the North's offensive MVP, directed a seamless drive after Cutler was ineffective on the first two series. The Clemson quarterback was perfect on five attempts for 66 yards, lofting a 15-yard scoring pass to Colorado tight end Joe Klopfenstein and finishing 7-of-9 for 90 yards.
Note: Each team picks an offensive and defensive MVP, but there was also an overall MVP. In that game it was Sinorice Moss.
 
Bowden was asked about Whitehurst's TD to INT ratio at Clemson and simply said he did not play behind a good O-line and in a couple of Bowl games was "absolutely killed" . . .
Reports at the time said that Whitehurst outperformed Cutler during the week of Senior Bowl practices. And Whitehurst definitely outperformed Cutler during the Senior Bowl game (where Cutler was generally ineffective and Whitehurst was MVP).That's worth only what it's worth, but I think it goes against the idea that Whitehurst is a complete bum who will inevitably set the Seahawks back three years.
Whitehurst was not MVP of any senior bowl. Charlie Frye was the MVP in 2005.
2006.OK, Sinorice Moss was the overall MVP. Whitehurst was the winning team's offensive MVP. Whatever sense that makes.

 
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I find it funny that all this got started with me just saying the move was silly, how dare I come up with my own opinion! We need to wait and see with everyone! I'll try to remember all that next time I post an opinion on FBG :goodposting: :thumbup:
Leave the revisionist history for times when your OP isn't just a keystroke away.
Sorry Hawks fans, Carroll just set the franchise back 3 years minimum.
The silly thing was your OP. And it became sillier when you kept trying to justify it.
If Whitehurst is not good then, yes, that's exactly what this move will do. How many successful teams are accompanied with below average QB's these days? The only ones are the ones with great run games and great defenses (Cincy, Baltimore, and the Jets), and it isn't like those QB's are that bad with the exception of the Jets, they get by because they have an elite run game and elite defense.Where does Seattle qualify for any of that?

 
I find it funny that all this got started with me just saying the move was silly, how dare I come up with my own opinion! We need to wait and see with everyone! I'll try to remember all that next time I post an opinion on FBG :goodposting: :thumbup:
Leave the revisionist history for times when your OP isn't just a keystroke away.
Sorry Hawks fans, Carroll just set the franchise back 3 years minimum.
The silly thing was your OP. And it became sillier when you kept trying to justify it.
If Whitehurst is not good then, yes, that's exactly what this move will do. How many successful teams are accompanied with below average QB's these days? The only ones are the ones with great run games and great defenses (Cincy, Baltimore, and the Jets), and it isn't like those QB's are that bad with the exception of the Jets, they get by because they have an elite run game and elite defense.Where does Seattle qualify for any of that?
See, the problem is that you've entrenched yourself behind your statement. Just let it go. This move is a very low-risk move by Seattle. Seattle already has Hass, and this move doesn't preclude them from drafting a QB. You make it seem like the Hershel Walker deal when it is simply trading back a few picks. Heck a few years ago Green Bay gave up that much for a stinking punter, it was just a blip on the radar. If this move fails, it won't even be remembered.
 
Bowden was asked about Whitehurst's TD to INT ratio at Clemson and simply said he did not play behind a good O-line and in a couple of Bowl games was "absolutely killed" . . .
Reports at the time said that Whitehurst outperformed Cutler during the week of Senior Bowl practices. And Whitehurst definitely outperformed Cutler during the Senior Bowl game (where Cutler was generally ineffective and Whitehurst was MVP).That's worth only what it's worth, but I think it goes against the idea that Whitehurst is a complete bum who will inevitably set the Seahawks back three years.
Whitehurst was not MVP of any senior bowl. Charlie Frye was the MVP in 2005.
2006.OK, Sinorice Moss was the overall MVP. Whitehurst was the winning team's offensive MVP. Whatever sense that makes.
Copy that. So many MVP's, so little time...
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ....html?eref=sihp

Sounds like San Diego was surprised anyone was interested, I wonder why...
:popcorn:
"I think they liked him in Clemson and they tracked him through college and in the preseason," Smith said. "They've done their research and made a judgment. They've looked at his intangibles, his background, where he's been trained, what kind of a guy he is, and what his study habits are. I think that's all positive. I think the only thing missing is the body of work as an NFL player."

No small detail, that. But Smith also revealed that the gap in San Diego between the experienced Volek at No. 2 and Whitehurst at No. 3 wasn't as large as most assumed. Volek somewhat surprisingly re-signed with the Chargers in 2008, blocking the still-not-ready Whitehurst's path to the backup job. But since then, Whitehurst's improvement under the tutelage of offensive-minded head coach Norv Turner has been steady, and some opposing teams were clearly aware of his value. Whitehurst possess an NFL arm, a quick release, and has the requisite brains to handle the most complicated position in the game. That's a pretty good start, especially since game experience is the missing component the Seahawks can most easily rectify.

In many ways, Seattle's gambit echoes the successful move it made nine years ago, when then-Seahawks head coach/general manager Mike Holmgren traded for untested Green Bay backup Hasselbeck, who had yet to make an NFL regular-season start. That one worked out pretty well, and now we'll get to see if history repeats itself in the Pacific Northwest. Come to think of it, Hasselbeck was the son of a former NFL player, too, so Whitehurst has that mojo going for him.

"I'm prejudiced for the guy, because he was our third guy," Smith said. "I think he's going to be a success, and obviously Pete Carroll in Seattle feels the same way. It's a judgment call. But he's a very talented player and he's been a great pro for us. He's a great team guy, and his work ethic and preparation are excellent. Especially for a guy who's not a snap away from playing. We think he's gifted and has all the tools. And he's been in the NFL and with a great program here, with other good quarterbacks.

"I think he's ready for the challenge. He hasn't played in the NFL, due to the circumstances here, but we have to say that about college players coming out in the draft every year. They're getting an outstanding player."
 
I find it funny that all this got started with me just saying the move was silly, how dare I come up with my own opinion! We need to wait and see with everyone! I'll try to remember all that next time I post an opinion on FBG :rolleyes: :unsure:
Leave the revisionist history for times when your OP isn't just a keystroke away.
Sorry Hawks fans, Carroll just set the franchise back 3 years minimum.
The silly thing was your OP. And it became sillier when you kept trying to justify it.
If Whitehurst is not good then, yes, that's exactly what this move will do. How many successful teams are accompanied with below average QB's these days? The only ones are the ones with great run games and great defenses (Cincy, Baltimore, and the Jets), and it isn't like those QB's are that bad with the exception of the Jets, they get by because they have an elite run game and elite defense.Where does Seattle qualify for any of that?
See, the problem is that you've entrenched yourself behind your statement. Just let it go. This move is a very low-risk move by Seattle. Seattle already has Hass, and this move doesn't preclude them from drafting a QB. You make it seem like the Hershel Walker deal when it is simply trading back a few picks. Heck a few years ago Green Bay gave up that much for a stinking punter, it was just a blip on the radar. If this move fails, it won't even be remembered.
QB is different than other positions, teams don't just move on from a mistake that quickly. Maybe they'll draft a QB but I don't see it after this trade, why make this trade if you're going to draft another guy too? especially with all the other holes on the team? will they learn enough about him to bring in a potential alternative after 010? and if so at what cost? They still have a lot of holes. They'll know what he is by 2011 but if it's a mistake then it's 2012 before it's fixed and probably 2013 before they know if his replacement's any good...which is 3 years from now. So either QB is still an issue 3 years from now, it's not because Whitehurst makes me put my foot in my mouth, or another QB has taken the reigns between now and then but unless that guy is a late round surprise and was instead drafted early it makes this move all the more puzzling because why do you trade the equivalent to an early-mid pick and then give a guy a $10 mil contract if you're only bringing him in to compete?

 
Whitehurst looks like the best of some below average options-FA or draft.

Drafting a QB in the 2nd you get a guy who is not ready to start and you

don't want him to either. Campbell, Moore, Pennington, Gradskowski,

and Orton are all being kept by their teams.

That leaves Who?, Anderson?, Grossman?, Carr?, I'll take Whitehurst.

Mac_32 just let it go. Please.

 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ....html?eref=sihp

Sounds like San Diego was surprised anyone was interested, I wonder why...
:rolleyes:
"I think they liked him in Clemson and they tracked him through college and in the preseason," Smith said. "They've done their research and made a judgment. They've looked at his intangibles, his background, where he's been trained, what kind of a guy he is, and what his study habits are. I think that's all positive. I think the only thing missing is the body of work as an NFL player."

No small detail, that. But Smith also revealed that the gap in San Diego between the experienced Volek at No. 2 and Whitehurst at No. 3 wasn't as large as most assumed. Volek somewhat surprisingly re-signed with the Chargers in 2008, blocking the still-not-ready Whitehurst's path to the backup job. But since then, Whitehurst's improvement under the tutelage of offensive-minded head coach Norv Turner has been steady, and some opposing teams were clearly aware of his value. Whitehurst possess an NFL arm, a quick release, and has the requisite brains to handle the most complicated position in the game. That's a pretty good start, especially since game experience is the missing component the Seahawks can most easily rectify.

In many ways, Seattle's gambit echoes the successful move it made nine years ago, when then-Seahawks head coach/general manager Mike Holmgren traded for untested Green Bay backup Hasselbeck, who had yet to make an NFL regular-season start. That one worked out pretty well, and now we'll get to see if history repeats itself in the Pacific Northwest. Come to think of it, Hasselbeck was the son of a former NFL player, too, so Whitehurst has that mojo going for him.

"I'm prejudiced for the guy, because he was our third guy," Smith said. "I think he's going to be a success, and obviously Pete Carroll in Seattle feels the same way. It's a judgment call. But he's a very talented player and he's been a great pro for us. He's a great team guy, and his work ethic and preparation are excellent. Especially for a guy who's not a snap away from playing. We think he's gifted and has all the tools. And he's been in the NFL and with a great program here, with other good quarterbacks.

"I think he's ready for the challenge. He hasn't played in the NFL, due to the circumstances here, but we have to say that about college players coming out in the draft every year. They're getting an outstanding player."
Maybe we're both guilty of selective reading because I took more from the below than I did the above.
Wanting to know more about Seattle's would-be savior, I called Chargers general manager A.J. Smith Thursday afternoon. I couldn't see him, of course, but Smith certainly sounded like the cat who ate the canary after landing a pretty fair bounty for a player who was only going to get on the field for San Diego if disaster struck. Smith didn't say so, but my read is that he was almost as surprised as anyone by what Seattle was willing to pay for Whitehurst -- both in compensation and contract.

"We just fell into it," Smith said of the trade talks that emerged after San Diego tendered Whitehurst, a restricted free agent, at a third-round level (his original draft slot). "We tendered a third, at a $1.1 million (salary) this year, [thinking] if he returns to us this year, we'll have the same rock and roll band again this season with Rivers, Volek and Whitehurst.

"But now here comes the activity, and it's between Arizona, which had a standard third-round pick, and Seattle. But there's a little bit of a twist because the Seahawks didn't have a three. So I presented a package to them that I thought was attractive to us, and it's accepted. They wanted the player. And that's how it went down." (It feels like the words "lo and behold" should be in that quote somewhere, but I checked, and they're not.)

Long term, this may wind up being a steal for Seattle. But until Whitehurst proves himself, it'll be scored as a heck of a coup for Smith and the Chargers. Especially if San Diego lands itself a blue-chip player at No. 40 in April.

"Your words, not mine," Smith said after listening to my instant analysis of the trade. But he was laughing when he said it, and I think I know why.
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ....html?eref=sihp

Sounds like San Diego was surprised anyone was interested, I wonder why...
:rolleyes:
"I think they liked him in Clemson and they tracked him through college and in the preseason," Smith said. "They've done their research and made a judgment. They've looked at his intangibles, his background, where he's been trained, what kind of a guy he is, and what his study habits are. I think that's all positive. I think the only thing missing is the body of work as an NFL player."

No small detail, that. But Smith also revealed that the gap in San Diego between the experienced Volek at No. 2 and Whitehurst at No. 3 wasn't as large as most assumed. Volek somewhat surprisingly re-signed with the Chargers in 2008, blocking the still-not-ready Whitehurst's path to the backup job. But since then, Whitehurst's improvement under the tutelage of offensive-minded head coach Norv Turner has been steady, and some opposing teams were clearly aware of his value. Whitehurst possess an NFL arm, a quick release, and has the requisite brains to handle the most complicated position in the game. That's a pretty good start, especially since game experience is the missing component the Seahawks can most easily rectify.

In many ways, Seattle's gambit echoes the successful move it made nine years ago, when then-Seahawks head coach/general manager Mike Holmgren traded for untested Green Bay backup Hasselbeck, who had yet to make an NFL regular-season start. That one worked out pretty well, and now we'll get to see if history repeats itself in the Pacific Northwest. Come to think of it, Hasselbeck was the son of a former NFL player, too, so Whitehurst has that mojo going for him.

"I'm prejudiced for the guy, because he was our third guy," Smith said. "I think he's going to be a success, and obviously Pete Carroll in Seattle feels the same way. It's a judgment call. But he's a very talented player and he's been a great pro for us. He's a great team guy, and his work ethic and preparation are excellent. Especially for a guy who's not a snap away from playing. We think he's gifted and has all the tools. And he's been in the NFL and with a great program here, with other good quarterbacks.

"I think he's ready for the challenge. He hasn't played in the NFL, due to the circumstances here, but we have to say that about college players coming out in the draft every year. They're getting an outstanding player."
Maybe we're both guilty of selective reading because I took more from the below than I did the above.
Wanting to know more about Seattle's would-be savior, I called Chargers general manager A.J. Smith Thursday afternoon. I couldn't see him, of course, but Smith certainly sounded like the cat who ate the canary after landing a pretty fair bounty for a player who was only going to get on the field for San Diego if disaster struck. Smith didn't say so, but my read is that he was almost as surprised as anyone by what Seattle was willing to pay for Whitehurst -- both in compensation and contract.

"We just fell into it," Smith said of the trade talks that emerged after San Diego tendered Whitehurst, a restricted free agent, at a third-round level (his original draft slot). "We tendered a third, at a $1.1 million (salary) this year, [thinking] if he returns to us this year, we'll have the same rock and roll band again this season with Rivers, Volek and Whitehurst.

"But now here comes the activity, and it's between Arizona, which had a standard third-round pick, and Seattle. But there's a little bit of a twist because the Seahawks didn't have a three. So I presented a package to them that I thought was attractive to us, and it's accepted. They wanted the player. And that's how it went down." (It feels like the words "lo and behold" should be in that quote somewhere, but I checked, and they're not.)

Long term, this may wind up being a steal for Seattle. But until Whitehurst proves himself, it'll be scored as a heck of a coup for Smith and the Chargers. Especially if San Diego lands itself a blue-chip player at No. 40 in April.

"Your words, not mine," Smith said after listening to my instant analysis of the trade. But he was laughing when he said it, and I think I know why.
Of course you do. The reporter's interpretation of what wasn't said is much more favorable to your position than what Smith actually said.
 
Mr. Bojangles said:
Still nothing from the pro Whitehurst crowd?

Watching games on tv you can't analyze every play, but you can analyze a significant number of them, catching coaches shows (satellite and online) you see more detail and from the end zone coach's view, following online forums you get some good links provided there to some footage/read local opinion pieces that's tougher to find. If you want to do the research it's out there, and not just highlights on youtube/sportscenter. I want to, is there something wrong with that?

A few games isn't enough to collect a sample, never claimed that it did. However, a dozen or so is. Patterns develop, potential weaknesses are identified then analyzed, some reoccur, others don't. What I saw from Whitehurst was (summary) a guy that relied on his arm in college and got by but still made a lot of bad decisions and way too many horrible decisions - hence, the horrible TD/INT ratio and low comp%. Other factors went to the mediocre record, but he lost several games by himself and contributed to others too. You don't have to agree with me, you can think I'm full of ####...but bring something to the table - the forum would be better. Taking scouts and GM's word as gospel ensures you're going to be average at fantasy football, if you want to be better than average do some research and create your own opinions.

[/jumps off soapbox]
Pete Carroll and John Schnieder, who actually have been employed by several NFL teams, have looked at everyone of Whitehurst's passes from Clemson and SD multiple times (listen to his interview on KJR Mitch in the Morning here: http://www.kjram.com/main.html).They think Whitehurst has the tools to succced. Your opinion is he won't be successful. Guess what? When he actually gets on the field, we shall see. Until he actually plays, no one knows for sure. Am I a pro Whitehurst guy? I guess because I like his chances better than any of the QB in FA that were available and I like his chances out of the gate over Bradford or Clausen, especially when you factor in that it will take a top 6 pick to land either of those guys and a HUGE signing bonus, I guess I am pro Whitehurst.

And what exactly are you bringing to the table besides an opinion backed up by nothing: he lost games by himself and contributed to to others? What specifically does that say? Nothing.
No, it says he made awful decisions at bad times (bad throw, wrong read, bad decision - INT) that led to Clemson losing the game. Physical tools, especially in QB's, is vastly over rated. Having a guy that's 6'5 235 with a strong arm and enough athleticism to avoid the rush is great, but it means nothing if he's not accurate and makes bad decisions...but I guess there's something wrong with saying you don't think someone will be successful. Making predictions, forecasting, speculating, etc., they're stupid aren't they? We should just wait and see with everyone? even if the guys talking him up (Terry Bowden and Pete Carroll) lack success at their respective jobs?I find it funny that all this got started with me just saying the move was silly, how dare I come up with my own opinion! We need to wait and see with everyone! I'll try to remember all that next time I post an opinion on FBG :thumbup: :unsure:
You haven't seen Whitehurst play one pro game, you are talking about college games (but fail to mention one specific game or one specific play but instead throw out generalities like he makes bad reads and cost his team games) yet some how that opinion can't be argued? HIS college coach said many of his INTS were due in part to an inexpereinced WR group. I'll take his word over yours. His current coach and GM, ACTUAL scouts, not amateur scouts, broke down every play he ever ran in both college and preseason. They seem to like him. I'll give Whitehurst a chance and not deem him a failure based on some youtube clip. But Thanks for playing!
 
Mr. Bojangles said:
Am I a pro Whitehurst guy? I guess because I like his chances better than any of the QB in FA that were available and I like his chances out of the gate over Bradford or Clausen, especially when you factor in that it will take a top 6 pick to land either of those guys and a HUGE signing bonus, I guess I am pro Whitehurst.
Such thinking is why many feel so sorry for SEA fans. Nothing like hitching your future to a guy who is the lesser of all evils.
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ....html?eref=sihp

Sounds like San Diego was surprised anyone was interested, I wonder why...
:lmao:
"I think they liked him in Clemson and they tracked him through college and in the preseason," Smith said. "They've done their research and made a judgment. They've looked at his intangibles, his background, where he's been trained, what kind of a guy he is, and what his study habits are. I think that's all positive. I think the only thing missing is the body of work as an NFL player."

No small detail, that. But Smith also revealed that the gap in San Diego between the experienced Volek at No. 2 and Whitehurst at No. 3 wasn't as large as most assumed. Volek somewhat surprisingly re-signed with the Chargers in 2008, blocking the still-not-ready Whitehurst's path to the backup job. But since then, Whitehurst's improvement under the tutelage of offensive-minded head coach Norv Turner has been steady, and some opposing teams were clearly aware of his value. Whitehurst possess an NFL arm, a quick release, and has the requisite brains to handle the most complicated position in the game. That's a pretty good start, especially since game experience is the missing component the Seahawks can most easily rectify.

In many ways, Seattle's gambit echoes the successful move it made nine years ago, when then-Seahawks head coach/general manager Mike Holmgren traded for untested Green Bay backup Hasselbeck, who had yet to make an NFL regular-season start. That one worked out pretty well, and now we'll get to see if history repeats itself in the Pacific Northwest. Come to think of it, Hasselbeck was the son of a former NFL player, too, so Whitehurst has that mojo going for him.

"I'm prejudiced for the guy, because he was our third guy," Smith said. "I think he's going to be a success, and obviously Pete Carroll in Seattle feels the same way. It's a judgment call. But he's a very talented player and he's been a great pro for us. He's a great team guy, and his work ethic and preparation are excellent. Especially for a guy who's not a snap away from playing. We think he's gifted and has all the tools. And he's been in the NFL and with a great program here, with other good quarterbacks.

"I think he's ready for the challenge. He hasn't played in the NFL, due to the circumstances here, but we have to say that about college players coming out in the draft every year. They're getting an outstanding player."
Sounds ALOT like what I say after I've abused another owner in a FF trade. So they(or others) keep coming back. Well done AJ! :nerd:
 
JetMaxx said:
Mr. Bojangles said:
Am I a pro Whitehurst guy? I guess because I like his chances better than any of the QB in FA that were available and I like his chances out of the gate over Bradford or Clausen, especially when you factor in that it will take a top 6 pick to land either of those guys and a HUGE signing bonus, I guess I am pro Whitehurst.
Such thinking is why many feel so sorry for SEA fans. Nothing like hitching your future to a guy who is the lesser of all evils.
What the hell are you talking about? Give me one link that has Bradford or Clausen as the next Manning. Both of those guys have huge questions marks. Whitehurst has the same question marks but comes a hell of a lot cheaper. So what would be worse? Whitehurst bombs and his two year deal for 10 million is easily wiped off the books. Or Clausen bombs but because the team is locked into him for say for 5 years with roughly a 30 million dollar signing bonus and a total package of about 50 million? Then when you are picking top five again, you can't go QB because of that contract but could easily go QB and still carry Whitehurst's contract. Feel sorry all you want but next time bring some common sense to the table.
 
Why did Seattle have to give him so much money off the start? What leverage does Whitehurst bring to the table to get so much money? He has yet to throw a pass yet in an NFL game even though he will be entering his 5th year in the league.

Could they not have signed him for cheaper and offered up playing incentives in his contract and then evalutated him througout the season and offered up an extension if things went well? At this stage I am just a little baffled by the move.

 
Why did Seattle have to give him so much money off the start? What leverage does Whitehurst bring to the table to get so much money? He has yet to throw a pass yet in an NFL game even though he will be entering his 5th year in the league. Could they not have signed him for cheaper and offered up playing incentives in his contract and then evalutated him througout the season and offered up an extension if things went well? At this stage I am just a little baffled by the move.
Sure they could have given him less money. Then he would have signed the Arizona offer. I'm not saying I agree with what Seattle did, but if they (Carroll and Schnieder) believe in the guy, then what they gave up was fair compensation.
 
Why did Seattle have to give him so much money off the start?
What specifically is "so much" money?Do you know the exact details of his contract? What is guaranteed? I ask because I don't know. I'm not trying to prove a point.Further, what are other prospects being paid at the QB position? I would like to be able to compare apples and oranges here. Sometimes I think people see big dollar amounts and aren't able to put them in perspective. What are the best (Manning, Brees, Brady, etc.) being paid? What are quarterbacks drafted in the early part of the first round (Stafford, Russell, Cutler, Bradford, Clausen, etc.) being paid? And when I say being paid, of course I mean guaranteed. Often dollar amounts are reported by agents and those numbers are WAY over-inflated and never close to the dollar amounts that teams are committed to actually pay.
 
from Peter King's MMQB:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...meetings/3.html

I think San Diego got the better of the Charlie Whitehurst deal, and that's putting it mildly. This is a man who has not thrown a meaningful pass since the 2005 season at Clemson (and in his last two years at Clemson, he had a minus-11 TD-to-interception differential). If he's such a bright prospect, San Diego sure had a funny way of showcasing the lifetime third-stringer, sticking him behind a lower-tier backup, Billy Volek, and never letting him see the field in four NFL seasons except to hand off in two mop-up games.

For Whitehurst, Seattle gave a 2011 third-round pick and agreed to swap second-round picks this year, which means in the best draft the NFL has seen in years, the Seahawks agreed to move down 20 picks (from 40th overall to 60th) ... and Seattle rewarded Whitehurst with a two-year, $8 million contract. Seattle's new braintrust, coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider, will be asked to justify the deal when they meet with reporters here.

 
Why did Seattle have to give him so much money off the start? What leverage does Whitehurst bring to the table to get so much money? He has yet to throw a pass yet in an NFL game even though he will be entering his 5th year in the league. Could they not have signed him for cheaper and offered up playing incentives in his contract and then evalutated him througout the season and offered up an extension if things went well? At this stage I am just a little baffled by the move.
Whitehurst has signed a two-year, $8 million contract, with $2 million more in incentives. That is not alot of money. If they keep him, Hasslebeck will make $5.25 M this season. I keep comparing this trade to Matt Cassel deal. Matt Cassel will make $40.5 M over the first 3 years of his contract.
 
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And this:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...ings/index.html

What this tells me is teams interested in Tebow don't want the other teams interested in Tebow to know how interested they are. If, for instance, the Seahawks want to add Tebow to the Matt Hasselbeck/Charlie Whitehurst stable and they hold the 60th overall pick in Round 2 (which I now think will be too low for Tebow), they don't want to telegraph their interest in case they plan to try to move into the 40s to get him. With New England having three picks in the second round (44, 47, 53), the Patriots could be in prime position to take Tebow and groom him as either a long-term replacement for Tom Brady (I don't buy that, with Brady wanting to play eight more years) or as a durable, versatile offensive weapon who could play multiple positions.

The Seahawks can't be seriously considering moving up to grab Tebow after trading for Whitehurst, are they?

 
If he's such a bright prospect, San Diego sure had a funny way of showcasing the lifetime third-stringer, sticking him behind a lower-tier backup, Billy Volek, and never letting him see the field in four NFL seasons except to hand off in two mop-up games.
:goodposting:Volek is a lower tier backup? Lots of NFL teams are giving their 3rd string QBs meaningful snaps while their starter is still healthy?I can't believe the polarization around Whitehurst which is leading to some pretty stupid comments like these from King.
 
When people argued over Brady vs. Manning, I don't recall anyone saying they had no opinion because they didn't have access to coaches tape.
I've been away from this thread for a while and I don't want to ;) but I just want to make a quick comment on this.I don't know about anybody else here but I've always taken it as a given that, although we have a lot of very knowledgeable football fans here, none of our opinions are as valuable as any NFL coach simply because there is such a huge gap between the information available to us vs. the information available to them. If, for example, Rex Ryan decided to start posting here and weighed in on the Manning vs. Brady debate, I don't think there is anybody here who is qualified to argue with him.The same thing goes for draft prospects analysis. There are a lot of very knowledgeable posters here and the analysis and debates are always interesting but if anybody on this board thinks they know more than even the worst of the NFL GM's, they are seriously deluding themselves.That doesn't mean we can't have opinions but we have to accept our opinions for what they are. None of us are professional scouts.
 
Why did Seattle have to give him so much money off the start? What leverage does Whitehurst bring to the table to get so much money? He has yet to throw a pass yet in an NFL game even though he will be entering his 5th year in the league. Could they not have signed him for cheaper and offered up playing incentives in his contract and then evalutated him througout the season and offered up an extension if things went well? At this stage I am just a little baffled by the move.
Whitehurst has signed a two-year, $8 million contract, with $2 million more in incentives. That is not alot of money. If they keep him, Hasslebeck will make $5.25 M this season. I keep comparing this trade to Matt Cassel deal. Matt Cassel will make $40.5 M over the first 3 years of his contract.
There is no point in comparing Whitehurst to Cassel. Cassel was coming off a year where he threw for 21 td's to 11 ints, with 3693 passing yards, and added 2 more rushing TD's with 271 rush yards before he signed his contract.
 
I cannot imagine how much time a professional scout spends breaking down film. Believe me, I don't envy them at all. I take no offense, breaking down games is something I do for fun.

Just find it funny when people use the argument "Oh, I see, we should all listen to an internet poster over a scout/gm/owner . . . etc." Ridiculous. If you want to say that Charlie Whitehurst will be good.

Great, add something substantive regarding him that makes you see that. Same if you think he will be bad. Using the "well, he must be good if 2 teams were competing for him" or "He must be bad because he was a backup" just doesn't do it for me.
:goodposting: It's a hobby, hence - amateur. Like Balco, who posts some GREAT threads that get little attention on this forum breaking down college tape I like watching players develop and make notes throughout the process - watching games (live and recorded) and following off field progress (in-season and offseason). I watch more than most football fans, and do so for somewhat different reasons (being a fan of lousy teams helps), but not as much as guys who do it for a living. I'm wrong about some (like anyone), but I'm right more than I'm wrong. I also keep an open mind, if something I didn't know about the player gets brought to the table I may change my mind. Two days later and...nothing...a lot of people were easily hooked though...shocking.Whitehurst hasn't shown anything outside of San Diego's coaching staff he may be any different than when he came out of school - an NFL arm with no head. Trade a future 3rd for him? Ok, maybe, I don't agree but that's the sort of trade you make for a backup. Trade down 20 spots in the 2nd and give him $10 mil? That's just silly.
:thumbup: Let me get this straight. You only have televised games to use for your "game tape" and you find it suprising you cant find anything to analyze Whitehurst with. Do you think NFL teams(professional scouts) are only using CBS's coverage for their game tape?
This is where I agree with Go deep.I think it is great that a number of guys on here watch and watch games, make notes, evaluate if a players seems to have skills that will translate to the net level- etc. People can spend their free time however they want, and if this is where their interests lie, then great. It often leads to good discussion. However, when people refer to watching youtube highlights and watching DVR'ed games as "Breaking down the tape", I snicker. Even Waldman (and I have payed money for years for his opinions and insights), doesn't break down tape- he analyzes tv coverage in an effort to look for (his own) systemized indicators of success. Tape refers to coaches tape which few have (Lammey has on occasion). Even then, we do not know what the players we coached to read or react to. When posters refer to breaking down the tape, it generally makes them sound like they are trying way too hard to sound intelligent/informed.

 
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