Who really is the greatest of all time? (1 Viewer)

[moleculo]

let me also post this about Otto Graham:

The AAFC was founded to compete directly with the NFL.  They had to attract college talent to compete.  They did that by eliminating the draft and letting coaches sign whomever they wanted and could afford, no salary cap.  The Browns hired the hotshot college coach of the day (Paul Brown), who was really innovative - the first guy to actually scout college players.  He assembled an all-star cast that blew through the rest of the AAFC.  When they eventually merged with the NFL, all of these cherry-picked players were still on the roster.

A modern equivalent would be if Bill Belichick had the ability to sign the best college players of the past 5 years for his team.  Is it any wonder they won the AAFC won all 4 AAFC championships and a couple NFL championships?

I'm not saying Otto wasn't a great player.  He certainly was.  But to crown him because he won 'ships?  I need to see more signs of greatness than that.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Probably the best 4th quarter in the history of football.  No hyperbole here.  I challenge anyone to find anything better.

I can easily identify a half dozen or more from memory. Frank Reich and the Bills leading the way.  In the Super Bowl, maybe not, but in football history, absolutely.  

 

[Morton Muffley]

Tom Brady(SB51), completely useless in the first half. Was responsible for Patriots being behind in the first place. Created more points for Falcons than Patriots until late in the 3rd quarter.

Look Brady had an awesome 4th quarter, but overall, it wasn't that great a game. He was awful until halfway through the 3rd quarter, and was a major(arguably the biggest) reason why the comeback was needed.

Go back and watch the game and look at the stats.  Neither support the contention of him having an "awful" game.  There were miss fires on Brady's part but there were also:

- multiple dropped passes

- failure to pick up 3rd and a yard via run

- a defense that could not stop Atlanta from scoring TDS

Your contention of an awful game is flatly wrong and belies a significant bias against Brady IMO

And for the record, I neither voted for Brady in this poll nor am ready to call him the GOAT without more analysis of the data and eras each QB played in.  Just wanted to comment on your wrongheadedness

As always, just my opinion...man

 

[Dedfin]

let me also post this about Otto Graham:

The AAFC was founded to compete directly with the NFL.  They had to attract college talent to compete.  They did that by eliminating the draft and letting coaches sign whomever they wanted and could afford, no salary cap.  The Browns hired the hotshot college coach of the day (Paul Brown), who was really innovative - the first guy to actually scout college players.  He assembled an all-star cast that blew through the rest of the AAFC.  When they eventually merged with the NFL, all of these cherry-picked players were still on the roster.

A modern equivalent would be if Bill Belichick had the ability to sign the best college players of the past 5 years for his team.  Is it any wonder they won the AAFC won all 4 AAFC championships and a couple NFL championships?

I'm not saying Otto wasn't a great player.  He certainly was.  But to crown him because he won 'ships?  I need to see more signs of greatness than that.

Wow, so the NFL got no good players all the while the Browns were in the AAFC.  Damn, I didn't know that.

 

[Dedfin]

I can easily identify a half dozen or more from memory. Frank Reich and the Bills leading the way.  In the Super Bowl, maybe not, but in football history, absolutely.  

Without looking, just guess (or if you actually know) how many points the Bills scored in the 4th quarter that game.

 

[Tau837]

let me also post this about Otto Graham:

The AAFC was founded to compete directly with the NFL.  They had to attract college talent to compete.  They did that by eliminating the draft and letting coaches sign whomever they wanted and could afford, no salary cap.  The Browns hired the hotshot college coach of the day (Paul Brown), who was really innovative - the first guy to actually scout college players.  He assembled an all-star cast that blew through the rest of the AAFC.  When they eventually merged with the NFL, all of these cherry-picked players were still on the roster.

A modern equivalent would be if Bill Belichick had the ability to sign the best college players of the past 5 years for his team.  Is it any wonder they won the AAFC won all 4 AAFC championships and a couple NFL championships?

I'm not saying Otto wasn't a great player.  He certainly was.  But to crown him because he won 'ships?  I need to see more signs of greatness than that.

Graham was a great player, but IMO he tends to be a bit overrated in these types of discussions.

 

[[icon]]

Go back and watch the game and look at the stats.  Neither support the contention of him having an "awful" game.  There were miss fires on Brady's part but there were also:

- multiple dropped passes

- failure to pick up 3rd and a yard via run

- a defense that could not stop Atlanta from scoring TDS

Your contention of an awful game is flatly wrong and belies a significant bias against Brady IMO

And for the record, I neither voted for Brady in this poll nor am ready to call him the GOAT without more analysis of the data and eras each QB played in.  Just wanted to comment on your wrongheadedness

As always, just my opinion...man

Well said. 

NE’s struggles in 1H were not entirely on Brady. That’s silly and shows major bias. 

But to his assertion that montanta’s 4Q was better is comically wrong given brady’s 4Q numbers dwarf montana’s 4Q and nearly eclipse his entire game. 

Absent bias, my point stands. 

 

[Ghost Rider]

just a reminder:

every time Manning had his team in position to win a playoff game with a kick, his kicker missed.  Every time his opponent was in position to win a game by FG, they converted.

every time Brady had his team in position to win a playoff game with a kick, his kicker converted.  Every time his opponent was in position to win a game by FG, they missed.

It baffles my mind that perception of QB greatness depends so much on the performance of kickers.

Change the "win" to "win or tie" in those reminders and that is mostly accurate.

To me, it's so hard to compare QBs across eras because the way the game is played now is so different than it used to be.  Manning and Brady have lapped just about every QB ever when it comes to greatness and longevity combined, but on the flip side, put them in the NFL back in the 80's, when you could knock the crap out of the QB, and there is no way they last this long. 

 

[AAABatteries]

If I get to pick their HC (Belichick) then I go Manning as best I’ve seen - coin toss Brady/Montana for 2nd.  Voted Montana because #### Brady.

 

[Jayded]

I’m a biased Montana fan and would always pick him, though you really couldn’t lose with any of these tier 1 guys. 

I’ll throw one out that matters to me and seems to get lost when folks play the “what if” game and downplay individual accolades because of the surrounding corps: Montana also won a college football national championship. Not only was he great in the NFL with one coach or one system, but he also won titles as the starter at multiple levels. 

 

[Rove!]

The thing that tarnishes Brady, besides deflate-gate, is that when he got hurt, the Pats still went 11-5 in a strong division and conference.  The manning-less Colts went like 1-15.  Manning looked ordinary in the playoffs, and always had mediocre or just bad coaches....the fact that this is a team sport, makes these arguments very difficult...your outcome depends so much on so many other other people doing their job well....

 

[bucksoh]

The thing that tarnishes Brady, besides deflate-gate, is that when he got hurt, the Pats still went 11-5 in a strong division and conference.  The manning-less Colts went like 1-15.  Manning looked ordinary in the playoffs, and always had mediocre or just bad coaches....the fact that this is a team sport, makes these arguments very difficult...your outcome depends so much on so many other other people doing their job well....

LOL, funniest thing I've seen in some time.

 

[Workhorse]

If I get to pick their HC (Belichick) then I go Manning as best I’ve seen - coin toss Brady/Montana for 2nd.  Voted Montana because #### Brady.

Why did you even post all of this when the only part of your opinion that matters are the last two words.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Without looking, just guess (or if you actually know) how many points the Bills scored in the 4th quarter that game.

I do not know.  My memory is that the Bills stormed out of the locker room and were back in the game pretty quickly.

 

[yabahos]

I do not know.  My memory is that the Bills stormed out of the locker room and were back in the game pretty quickly.

Yup. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199301030buf.htm

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/sports/football/bills-oilers-game-in-1993-is-greatest-comeback-that-ever-was-and-was-not.html?pagewanted=all&

Haven’t found a breakdown of the play by play.   Reich threw for 3TDs in the third but curious about passing attempts, completions etc.   Moon had three turnovers in the game on two Ints and a fumble.   Wonder how many were in the third.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

just a reminder:

every time Manning had his team in position to win a playoff game with a kick, his kicker missed.  Every time his opponent was in position to win a game by FG, they converted.

every time Brady had his team in position to win a playoff game with a kick, his kicker converted.  Every time his opponent was in position to win a game by FG, they missed.

It baffles my mind that perception of QB greatness depends so much on the performance of kickers.

Just a reminder:

Naked box score statistics (like any statistics) alone to prove or disprove theories can be highly misleading.

A few examples of such folly:

AFCCC loss where team "a" QB throws what could\should have been last second game tying td pass were it not for kicker missing earlier XP.

Super Bowl loss where team "a" qb throws go ahead td pass with 5 mins remaining, but team "a" defense gives up game winning td (as opposed to game winning fg)

Super Bowl win where team "a" is ahead by 10 points and gives up what amounted to an almost meaningless td with less than 2 minutes remaining to make the final score 24-21

Super Bowl win where in spite of team "a" pk missing 2 out of 3 fg's (31 & 36 yd chip shots) they take an 11 point lead in 4th quarter. 
Team "b" then scores 2 td's, the second of which is an 85yd td pass to take the lead with 7 mins remaining.
Team "a" qb drives his team back and throws the go ahead td pass with 3 mins remaining.
Team "b" comes back yet again and ties the game with a minute left. 
Team "a" qb drives his team back yet again for game winning 41yd fg with 4 seconds remaining. 
Team "a" scored 32 points, so ya of course the 1 for 3 pk is responsible for the win.....

Super Bowl win where team "a" pk misses XP contributing to the necessity of needing multiple sucessful 2 pt conversions just to tie the game.
The greatest comeback win in SB history was capped by a rushing td which of course diminishes anything the qb did as would have kicking a fg for the win.

It baffles the mind that some insist on removing all context and diminishing game winning drives based on box score and or whether the winning score is a pass, rush or fg.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

 Also, how much of Montana was Bill Walsh? How much was Jerry Rice? I can see having Montana higher than 9th, I have him Brady, Favre and Marino in the same tier. 

Montana won a Super Bowl before Jerry Rice was drafted.

 

[Tau837]

 Also, how much of Montana was Bill Walsh? How much was Jerry Rice? I can see having Montana higher than 9th, I have him Brady, Favre and Marino in the same tier. 

Montana won a Super Bowl before Jerry Rice was drafted.

He won two - 1981 and 1984. Rice was drafted in 1985.

 

[spider321]

Jerry Rice.

 

[Dedfin]

I do not know.  My memory is that the Bills stormed out of the locker room and were back in the game pretty quickly.

As someone upthread showed, the 4th wasn't were Reich was a stud.  It was the 3rd.  I'm not that curious to know who has ever had better 4th q performances, but that's only because I'm confident in my claim.  I also don't remember as much football as you, so maybe I just wasn't around for more storied performances.

 

[Dedfin]

Doug Williams down? 

wat

 

[Saboo]

How is this even a debate at this point? Tom Brady is hands down the greatest of all time

 

[SengerCJ]

No Jim Brown or Jerry Rice? Could we clarify if we are referring to greatest of all time or greatest quarterback of all time. I need help here. 

 

[The Kerminator]

No Don Hutson?

 

[TartanLion]

He doesn't deserve to be on this list but I just wanted to mention Bobby Layne, he led DETROIT! to multiple championships after all. Once in a Cotton Bowl game he effectively attributed to  all 40 pts himself   scoring four touchdowns, kicking 4 extra points and throwing 2 tds. He was an outstanding pitcher at college level. He kicked for three years in the NFL and led the league in FG % one season and when he retired he held many QB records up to that point in time. He liked to drink a lot most days. Would have been an interesting guy to meet. 

 

[Casting Couch]

Of course they do... You think if they published an article right now about Montana or Manning being the greatest of all time it would get anywhere near the same number of clicks? Heck no...

Brady has shattered most records set by Montana and Manning. The ones that haven't been shattered will be done so.... soon.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

No Unitas ???  What '####### wrote this question?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Brady has shattered most records set by Montana and Manning. The ones that haven't been shattered will be done so.... soon.

You think Brady is still gonna throw for 56 TDs in a season?

And win three more MVPs, to eclipse Peyton's five?

And be first team All-Pro five more teams, to eclipse Peyton's seven? 

Bold prediction.   

 

[Shutout]

I would love for a legit math/numbers guy to put stats to the likelihood that anyone will be able to break Brady's number of SB appearances, wins, yards, TDs, playoff numbers, etc, etc. 

Numbers and stats aren't everything but when you REALLY sit down and look a this, who in the world ever gets this many division titles, conference championships, opportunities to play in the SB, WIN the SB, etc?   He simply means more than any player ever in terms of "in his absence, how much NFL history would be different?"

 

[Steeler]

I'm a Steeler fan (obviously) and it has to be Brady - competing for championships (and winning a lot of them, sorry Jim Kelly) is my barometer.

I googled Tom Bray AFC Championship game appearance and came up with this:  Since Brady became their starting quarterback in 2001, the Patriots have never had a losing season and have won 14 division titles. The Patriots played in eleven AFC Championship Games from 2001 to 2016—including six in a row from 2011 to 2016—and won seven of them.

Pretty amazing stuff, really.

 

[bostonfred]

I think a lot of people forget how good Masyc was.  That's really who we should be comparing with Brady.  And their numbers are remarkably similar, although Brady is closing in on all of them and could end up tied or ahead in every category before he's done.  He's already ahead in quite a few. 

Brady 5 rings

Masyc 5 rings

Brady 488 career tds

Masyc 503 career tds 

Brady 66,159 career passing yards

Masyc 73,675 career passing yards

Brady 8 conference championships

Masyc 5 conference championships

Brady 12 conference championship games

Masyc 10 conference championship games

Brady 97.6 career passer rating

Masyc 96.8 career passer rating*

Brady 196-55 regular season record

Masyc 211-96 regular season record

Brady 27-10 postseason record

Masyc 30-15 postseason record

Brady 53 career game winning drives

Masyc 50 career game winning drives

Brady 42 4th quarter comebacks

Masyc 45 4th quarter comebacks

Brady 3 NFL mvps

Masyc 3 NFL mvps

Brady 4 Superbowl mvps

Masyc 5 Superbowl mvps 

If you're wondering who Masyc is, it stands for Montana and Steve young combined.  Montana is currently second in this poll and Brady is ahead of him by almost a whole Steve young in virtually every meaningful category.  

* Steve young had a 96.8 passer rating, Montana 92.3. Brady 97.6.

 

[Steeler]

Montana was awesome, but I'll never forget when he threw that pick against the Bengals to cost the 49ers the SB.  Oh, that's right - unfortunately (for Bengals fans) the DB dropped the ball and Montana threw the TD to John Taylor (on the next play IIRC) and the rest is history.  I was in college watching that game with my buddies and I said that bad pass/dropped pick will never be remembered, discussed, whatever - turns out that was correct.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Montana was awesome, but I'll never forget when he threw that pick against the Bengals to cost the 49ers the SB.  Oh, that's right - unfortunately (for Bengals fans) the DB dropped the ball and Montana threw the TD to John Taylor (on the next play IIRC) and the rest is history.  I was in college watching that game with my buddies and I said that bad pass/dropped pick will never be remembered, discussed, whatever - turns out that was correct.

Too much time was left in the game to really count count that as a loss. What if Butler drops the INT or Lynch gets the carry? You can what if Brady or Montana down to 0 wins if you want.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

He doesn't deserve to be on this list but I just wanted to mention Bobby Layne, he led DETROIT! to multiple championships after all. Once in a Cotton Bowl game he effectively attributed to  all 40 pts himself   scoring four touchdowns, kicking 4 extra points and throwing 2 tds. He was an outstanding pitcher at college level. He kicked for three years in the NFL and led the league in FG % one season and when he retired he held many QB records up to that point in time. He liked to drink a lot most days. Would have been an interesting guy to meet. 

its between the lions and the browns for the team of the 50s, each has 3 NFL titles, all 3 of the lions titles came against the Browns. 

 

[NeverEnough]

Lots of QBs missing from this poll...

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I think a lot of people forget how good Masyc was.  That's really who we should be comparing with Brady.  And their numbers are remarkably similar, although Brady is closing in on all of them and could end up tied or ahead in every category before he's done.  He's already ahead in quite a few. 

Brady 5 rings

Masyc 5 rings

Brady 488 career tds

Masyc 503 career tds 

Brady 66,159 career passing yards

Masyc 73,675 career passing yards

Brady 8 conference championships

Masyc 5 conference championships

Brady 12 conference championship games

Masyc 10 conference championship games

Brady 97.6 career passer rating

Masyc 96.8 career passer rating*

Brady 196-55 regular season record

Masyc 211-96 regular season record

Brady 27-10 postseason record

Masyc 30-15 postseason record

Brady 53 career game winning drives

Masyc 50 career game winning drives

Brady 42 4th quarter comebacks

Masyc 45 4th quarter comebacks

Brady 3 NFL mvps

Masyc 3 NFL mvps

Brady 4 Superbowl mvps

Masyc 5 Superbowl mvps 

If you're wondering who Masyc is, it stands for Montana and Steve young combined.  Montana is currently second in this poll and Brady is ahead of him by almost a whole Steve young in virtually every meaningful category.  

* Steve young had a 96.8 passer rating, Montana 92.3. Brady 97.6.

Youngtana sounds way better than Masyc.

 

[Casting Couch]

You think Brady is still gonna throw for 56 TDs in a season?

And win three more MVPs, to eclipse Peyton's five?

And be first team All-Pro five more teams, to eclipse Peyton's seven? 

Bold prediction.   

I should have clarified, (most records). Don't let your hate cloud your vision. Brady vs Manning is not that close. It's Brady.

 

[Pipes]

As much as I despise the Patriots it's Brady and I don't think it's close.  He's done more with less than any of these QB's.  It's hard to compare the old guys to the modern NFL and those Steelers and 49ers teams were absolutely loaded on both sides of the ball.  Other than Gronk that Pats offense has been a bunch of average Joes.

 

[Shutout]

I think a lot of people forget how good Masyc was.  That's really who we should be comparing with Brady.  And their numbers are remarkably similar, although Brady is closing in on all of them and could end up tied or ahead in every category before he's done.  He's already ahead in quite a few. 

Brady 5 rings

Masyc 5 rings

Brady 488 career tds

Masyc 503 career tds 

Brady 66,159 career passing yards

Masyc 73,675 career passing yards

Brady 8 conference championships

Masyc 5 conference championships

Brady 12 conference championship games

Masyc 10 conference championship games

Brady 97.6 career passer rating

Masyc 96.8 career passer rating*

Brady 196-55 regular season record

Masyc 211-96 regular season record

Brady 27-10 postseason record

Masyc 30-15 postseason record

Brady 53 career game winning drives

Masyc 50 career game winning drives

Brady 42 4th quarter comebacks

Masyc 45 4th quarter comebacks

Brady 3 NFL mvps

Masyc 3 NFL mvps

Brady 4 Superbowl mvps

Masyc 5 Superbowl mvps 

If you're wondering who Masyc is, it stands for Montana and Steve young combined.  Montana is currently second in this poll and Brady is ahead of him by almost a whole Steve young in virtually every meaningful category.  

* Steve young had a 96.8 passer rating, Montana 92.3. Brady 97.6.

So. Basically , Brady will eclipse the accomplishments of two hall of famer QBs who are pretty much the poster boys of the greatest era in football in terms of the most productive, efficient newthinking offense that dominated an era.  

 

[Ghost Rider]

I should have clarified, (most records). Don't let your hate cloud your vision. Brady vs Manning is not that close. It's Brady.

I wasn't making it out about Brady vs Manning or any other QB for that matter.  I was simply pointing out how absurd it is to assume that he will shatter every record out there.  No one does that except 99 in hockey. 

 

[bostonfred]

So. Basically , Brady will eclipse the accomplishments of two hall of famer QBs who are pretty much the poster boys of the greatest era in football in terms of the most productive, efficient newthinking offense that dominated an era.  

Before Brady and manning, both Montana and young were often brought up in best of all time discussions.   You have to add both of them together to match Brady's individual and team accomplishments.

People talk about how great the 49ers were because they had back to back elite quarterbacks.   Brady has done better than both together.

People said similar things about Favre and Rodgers or manning and luck.  Brady has had more postseason success than all four of them put together. 

He's lapping the field now. 

 

[Shutout]

Before Brady and manning, both Montana and young were often brought up in best of all time discussions.   You have to add both of them together to match Brady's individual and team accomplishments.

People talk about how great the 49ers were because they had back to back elite quarterbacks.   Brady has done better than both together.

People said similar things about Favre and Rodgers or manning and luck.  Brady has had more postseason success than all four of them put together. 

He's lapping the field now. 

no argument from me. I was just genuinely surprised that he has accomplished so much compared to Montana and Young. 

 

[Deamon]

Sid Luckman

Luckman took his team to the Championship game 5 of 7 years from 1940 - 1946.  He was 5-1 in playoff games, and won 4 out of 5 Championships.

Otto Graham

Graham took his team to the Championship 10 straight years from 1946 - 1955.  He was 9-3 in playoff games, and won 7 out of 10 Championships.  Before you get all excited about debunking the AAFC, remember that in the first year that the Browns entered the NFL in 1950, they went to the Championship game and won!  Graham took them to 6 straight Championships in the NFL with a 3-3 overall record.

Bart Starr

Starr took his team to the Championship game 6 out of 8 years from 1960 - 1967.  He was 9-1 in playoff games, and won 5 out of 6 Championships. Including 2 straight Super Bowl victories!

Terry Bradshaw

Bradshaw led the Steelers to 4 Super Bowl victories.  1974, 1975, 1978 & 1979.  He led them to 8 straight playoff appearances and overall 9 out of 11 years to the playoffs between 1972 - 1982.  He was 14-5 in playoff games.

Joe Montana

Montana led the 49ers to 4 Super Bowl victories.  1981, 1984, 1988 & 1989.  He led them to 8 straight playoff appearances.  He was 16-7 in playoff games.

Tom Brady

Brady has taken the Patriots to the playoffs 15 out the last 17 years.  He has 7 Super Bowl appearances with a 5-2 record.  Overall he is 25-9 in playoff
games.

Brady has avoided "father time" so far and he certainly has amassed the most appearances of the group.  However his playoff winning percentage
is only better than Montana's.  Graham led his team to 10 straight Championship games not just simply to playoff appearances.  Starr lost only 1 out of 10
playoff games and was 5-1 in Championship games.  Luckman lost only 1 out 6 playoff games and was 4-1 in Championship games.  Here is a summary of Championship appearances :

Graham : 7-3
Starr : 5-1
Luckman : 4-1
Brady : 5-2
Bradshaw : 4-0
Montana : 4-0

It's no slam dunk that Brady is the greatest of all time ...

It is.

 

[Rodrigo Duterte]

The teams QB's end up on and the coaching they get is a huge part of it.  So many underrated QBs who would've thrived in the right situation.  But mostly you see easy (lazy) analysis from biased fans in support of their favorite/hero.

For me it would be Rodgers.  On a team I have zero loyalty to.  As well as a college I don't care about.  A lot of fans base one or two of those aspects before building their "case" around typically selective statistics.

QB is not an easy sports position to come up with a definitive answer.  Way too many intangibles.  I mean look at tape of those old-timers and tell me the arm-strength, agility, and overall talent is what you see the last decades.  No way.  There just wasn't the pool of talent we've seen in more recent times.  It's not unlike tape of older basketball players compared to today.

And guys will never admit any childhood hero would not match up.  Or that their favorite team's great QB isn't the greatest.  An argument that can't really be proven in the ultimate team sport.

 

[DropKick]

The teams QB's end up on and the coaching they get is a huge part of it.  So many underrated QBs who would've thrived in the right situation.  But mostly you see easy (lazy) analysis from biased fans in support of their favorite/hero.

For me it would be Rodgers.  On a team I have zero loyalty to.  As well as a college I don't care about.  A lot of fans base one or two of those aspects before building their "case" around typically selective statistics.

QB is not an easy sports position to come up with a definitive answer.  Way too many intangibles.  I mean look at tape of those old-timers and tell me the arm-strength, agility, and overall talent is what you see the last decades.  No way.  There just wasn't the pool of talent we've seen in more recent times.  It's not unlike tape of older basketball players compared to today.

And guys will never admit any childhood hero would not match up.  Or that their favorite team's great QB isn't the greatest.  An argument that can't really be proven in the ultimate team sport.

Sorry, but you made me laugh with the point about situation and lazy analysis.   After what some some consider TWO separate hall of fame carers in New England, Brady swaps jerseys and gets in done AGAIN in Tampa.  Listen to what his teammates say..

With all due respect to Rodgers, he isn't in the conversation.

 

[JohnnyU]

Different eras, different factors in team construction.  I still like Montana the best, but put Brady at the top with doing more with less during his prime.  However, he did have great defenses during his prime and a great kicker.  Don't laugh, because without the kicker the Pats don't win a couple of those Super Bowls.

 

[IHEARTFF]

I think it’s Brady but his teams are 25-4 in the playoffs when the opponent scores 23 points or less and just 9-7 when they score at least 24. That’s a lot of great defenses helping him out there. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Different eras, different factors in team construction.  I still like Montana the best, but put Brady at the top with doing more with less during his prime.  However, he did have great defenses during his prime and a great kicker.  Don't laugh, because without the kicker the Pats don't win a couple of those Super Bowls.

Just ask Buffalo about kickers.

 

[ffmail4me]

Sean Taylor was on his way....but it has to be Tom Brady. And I'm not a Patriots/Bucs fan. 

 

[ffmail4me]

Different eras, different factors in team construction.  I still like Montana the best, but put Brady at the top with doing more with less during his prime.  However, he did have great defenses during his prime and a great kicker.  Don't laugh, because without the kicker the Pats don't win a couple of those Super Bowls.

Montana is the only other QB that can even be mentioned above Brady...I still think its Brady, but Montana was amazing...but he also had Jerry Rice. Other than 1 year when Randy Moss went nuts, Brady never had a WR like Rice.