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Why soccer will never be big in the USA....... (1 Viewer)
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Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
Or maybe post in the Free For All which I think is a place to post non-football topics that are of interest.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I find it a touch strange that some of these people are so insecure in their love of soccer that they have to constantly defend it, almost as if hoping they can somehow make converts. But, in the end, it is a message board and people are going to post their opinions, no matter what.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
This is a good post. I have a few comments on it to hopefully expand on the topic.
1) I think you will find that most, if not all, soccer fans in the FFA don't like diving. I think you will also find that most, if not all, would support punishments severe enough to help stamp it out.
2) But at the same time, I can find items in every sport I like that I would like to improve. And that is for sports I like, much less the sports I do not like.
3) Diving at the WC is significantly more abundant that in normal club soccer. You will find SIGNIFICANT less diving in leagues like MLS, EPL, the Bundesliga as compared to the WC.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I find the OPs post way more of a hot take then anything. I'll just give my Honest opinion on why it will never be popular here.
Most American's are ignorant to the sport. They won't even try to understand the game. Most who like the sport already were taught it at a young age by parents siblings or other relatives or by friends. The older people get the less likely they are to try new things. My favorite complaint especially from those who watch the NBA is they dive too much nd prima donnas? Uh what? The NBA doesn't have constant diving and complaining? Lebron half the game acts like theres a snipper on the rafters and was barely touched and goes down. Same with many others these days. Try having a metal spike/cleat driven into your foot or lower ankle or a ball driven right into your face. Then tell me how much they dive. I thought the Diving was way more prevalent yrs ago and the last decade it's gone away from the game more and more. Less rewards are going to players who constantly dive and refs are telling players to get up or even giving a yellow card for Decent. I think it's more ridiculous the diving in NBA/NHL/NFL then soccer anymore. There's this vast misconception or complete ignorance that this type of diving only happens in a soccer match and it's further from the truth then they want to admit.
Another popular complaint is they don't make enough money? Really because Soccer players get a ton of money off their sponsorship deals. There's this blatant misconception that Football player NFL Contracts are guaranteed fully. Not really. The only guarantees are the bonuses $ you get for reaching certain goals as well as what is reported as guaranteed. Say a player gets a 4yr deal worth 100M and 50M is guaranteed if the player is released after the 3rd year only the $50M that was guaranteed plus any bonuses they reached are given to them so say they made another 5M in Bonuses they lost $40M in money. A soccer player can have a Shoe sponsor like puma, get endorsement money from local club sponsors, local stores etc etc.
A 3rd is theres not enough scoring: What? I hate watching football games especially Big 12 games where the final scores are like 62-51 or whatever and I really hate how the NBA if you don't get 100PTs a game your offense is terrible. I hate these 135-120 games. I really enjoyed the Bulls/Heat Playoff series where the final scores were like 92-85 a defensive battle type thing. I appreciate a 14-10 Eagles win over the Giants in a division game, or a Shutout in Hockey or Baseball. I had someone tell me that Roy Halladay's No hitter in the playoffs was one of the most boring baseball games ever? really that was some of the most exciting baseball I watched and it has special meaning to me as my Pop-Pop had died that morning.
I brought a friend (who I was surprised even suggested it) to a Philadelphia Union Match. We sat lower level almost exactly midfield level across from the benches. Columbus had 2 guys in that game sent off, there were 4 goals scored including a PK and he still said he was bored. Uh What? You had a high scoring game, the other team had 2 guys sent off, you also met some of the supporters Section including the president of the Sons of Ben, and we won plus we had great seats? I even told you the strategy and why things were being done. I guess my issue was no matter what he saw he has a strong ignorance and went into it that he was gonna hate it no matter what.
I was never a big fan until I got Fox sports and Fox Soccer Channel when we went to Fios Digital. However the 06 World Cup with Italy winning kind of changed a lot of my perception on the sport. I always enjoyed the World Cup. I got up extra early when the WC was in South Korea just to watch that amazing US win over Mexico. I bought Fifa for the first time in 07 and learned a lot about the clubs and since a lot of the Italian players I liked from the 06 squad were from AC Milan thats who I chose to support. I learned strategy of the game among management and how the transfer market worked. I think the anticipation of a derby match is like no other and watching the new players come along as well as youth players coming up is some of the best to keep an eye on for a season. Trying too see if your team will end up playing in Europe either the UEFA Champions league or Europa League or if your club will safely position itself to not get relegated or lower levels watching the club get promoted to the higher leagues. I think Soccer might be my favorite sport at this point outside of the NFL/College football. I've shied more and more away from NBA as the yrs go with all the BS going on and band aids to fix major problems that will come up again and lost track of hockey to a big degree over the years. Hockey more so because of my work schedule. I just think Soccer will never be huge in the US because there's a lot of Americans who are too ignorant to learn about the sport or will try to make fun of it while denying how poorly the sport they enjoy is doing. Baseball ratings have been way down along with attendance, NBA cities where the team is awful the attendance is terrible and the teams that are tanking does nothing to help especially when it gives the bigger teams an opportunity to rest the star players. Golf is a snooze fest without Tiger Woods and who the heck wants to watch a bunch of southern Pabst drinkers driving around make left turn after left turn all day on a hot track?
Most American's are ignorant to the sport. They won't even try to understand the game. Most who like the sport already were taught it at a young age by parents siblings or other relatives or by friends. The older people get the less likely they are to try new things. My favorite complaint especially from those who watch the NBA is they dive too much nd prima donnas? Uh what? The NBA doesn't have constant diving and complaining? Lebron half the game acts like theres a snipper on the rafters and was barely touched and goes down. Same with many others these days. Try having a metal spike/cleat driven into your foot or lower ankle or a ball driven right into your face. Then tell me how much they dive. I thought the Diving was way more prevalent yrs ago and the last decade it's gone away from the game more and more. Less rewards are going to players who constantly dive and refs are telling players to get up or even giving a yellow card for Decent. I think it's more ridiculous the diving in NBA/NHL/NFL then soccer anymore. There's this vast misconception or complete ignorance that this type of diving only happens in a soccer match and it's further from the truth then they want to admit.
Another popular complaint is they don't make enough money? Really because Soccer players get a ton of money off their sponsorship deals. There's this blatant misconception that Football player NFL Contracts are guaranteed fully. Not really. The only guarantees are the bonuses $ you get for reaching certain goals as well as what is reported as guaranteed. Say a player gets a 4yr deal worth 100M and 50M is guaranteed if the player is released after the 3rd year only the $50M that was guaranteed plus any bonuses they reached are given to them so say they made another 5M in Bonuses they lost $40M in money. A soccer player can have a Shoe sponsor like puma, get endorsement money from local club sponsors, local stores etc etc.
A 3rd is theres not enough scoring: What? I hate watching football games especially Big 12 games where the final scores are like 62-51 or whatever and I really hate how the NBA if you don't get 100PTs a game your offense is terrible. I hate these 135-120 games. I really enjoyed the Bulls/Heat Playoff series where the final scores were like 92-85 a defensive battle type thing. I appreciate a 14-10 Eagles win over the Giants in a division game, or a Shutout in Hockey or Baseball. I had someone tell me that Roy Halladay's No hitter in the playoffs was one of the most boring baseball games ever? really that was some of the most exciting baseball I watched and it has special meaning to me as my Pop-Pop had died that morning.
I brought a friend (who I was surprised even suggested it) to a Philadelphia Union Match. We sat lower level almost exactly midfield level across from the benches. Columbus had 2 guys in that game sent off, there were 4 goals scored including a PK and he still said he was bored. Uh What? You had a high scoring game, the other team had 2 guys sent off, you also met some of the supporters Section including the president of the Sons of Ben, and we won plus we had great seats? I even told you the strategy and why things were being done. I guess my issue was no matter what he saw he has a strong ignorance and went into it that he was gonna hate it no matter what.
I was never a big fan until I got Fox sports and Fox Soccer Channel when we went to Fios Digital. However the 06 World Cup with Italy winning kind of changed a lot of my perception on the sport. I always enjoyed the World Cup. I got up extra early when the WC was in South Korea just to watch that amazing US win over Mexico. I bought Fifa for the first time in 07 and learned a lot about the clubs and since a lot of the Italian players I liked from the 06 squad were from AC Milan thats who I chose to support. I learned strategy of the game among management and how the transfer market worked. I think the anticipation of a derby match is like no other and watching the new players come along as well as youth players coming up is some of the best to keep an eye on for a season. Trying too see if your team will end up playing in Europe either the UEFA Champions league or Europa League or if your club will safely position itself to not get relegated or lower levels watching the club get promoted to the higher leagues. I think Soccer might be my favorite sport at this point outside of the NFL/College football. I've shied more and more away from NBA as the yrs go with all the BS going on and band aids to fix major problems that will come up again and lost track of hockey to a big degree over the years. Hockey more so because of my work schedule. I just think Soccer will never be huge in the US because there's a lot of Americans who are too ignorant to learn about the sport or will try to make fun of it while denying how poorly the sport they enjoy is doing. Baseball ratings have been way down along with attendance, NBA cities where the team is awful the attendance is terrible and the teams that are tanking does nothing to help especially when it gives the bigger teams an opportunity to rest the star players. Golf is a snooze fest without Tiger Woods and who the heck wants to watch a bunch of southern Pabst drinkers driving around make left turn after left turn all day on a hot track?
El Floppo
Footballguy
For me, games like... Well, all of the other US sports- take forever as a spectator, even when there's a so-called clock. Baseball goes forever. Football, 60 minutes = who knows. basketball is the same...especially that last minute that could take 15 minutes or more of actual time. Soccer is 90 minutes viewing/playing plus 15 minutes for halftime and an extra few minutes at the end of each half. And the ref let's you know how much extra time there is... So I guess you're not liking the extra time added to the extra time..sometimes up to a minute or so? Seems like a reasonable reason to dislike a sport.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Gonna disagree with you on that one.
But to the op's point, are the soccer supporters in here actively defending diving or embellishing? I think we all hate it. I do agree with him that we're more used to seeing it than others, so aren't as horrified by it. Still disgusted and annoyed (####### Neymar) but beaten down by seeing it so much that we can look past to the rest of the sport that we all like.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think it's a misconception how much Diving occurs or sheer ignorance to admit it happens in other sports. In the NBA this has become common to the point people coined Lebron a new nickname LeFlop for the amount of diving and flopping he does. The NHL has players notorious for diving and using it to cause trouble especially Sidney Crosby. Most soccer fans hate the diving but the difference between soccer fans and those other sports is soccer fans don't defend the diving of the star players like the fans of other sports will do. If I bring up Lebron or Crosby diving I'm gonna get the typical Star players get calls its part of the game. However they will have a fit if some soccer player is diving. We don't defend those who diving. If you remember Tommy Smyth who use to do ESPN Commentary for international games is now the Unions color guy with JP Dellacamara as Play by play. We played TFC a few weeks ago and Giovinco was diving all over the place. Tommy was giving it to the official real good on the broadcast how Giovinco should be carded already for deception. He went on how it's poor for the game and does nothing to help it and how he hates seeing officials give Star players the benefit of the doubt when they flop. You don't see NBA commentators unless it's Van Gundy or NHL Commentators going after guys for that though. They just say oh well it was a good acting job missed call whatever lets move along.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I get your point, and I was MOSTLY joking, but we are on a football site, and most people I meet that hate soccer are hard core football fans. I just find it funny that the complaints I hear mostly revolve around:
- Too Slow. Nevermind that the games are 2/3 the length of an NFL game, and there is soccer action through most of the game.
- Not Enough scoring. But a 21-7 football game is exciting? Uh.. that's a 3-1 soccer game.
- The flopping and fake injuries. I think you are underselling the amount of nfl players trying to get a penalty call on seemingly every play. Didn't they have to change the rules because players were faking injuries at the end of games to give their teams extra time?
- Excessive celebrations. GTFO with this one as we see the TD celebrations come back, and the couple seconds taken after damn near every decent tackle, first down, etc..
I think it's mostly that people don't understand the sport, rules like offsides, and the US sucks at it but like I said, mostly when I talk to people it's the above complaints that I hear.
The Gator
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think our defensive mechanism to diving is people using it as a reason not to like it when it's become just as bad in other sports say they really like for instance Hockey and basketball. It's pretty hypocritical especially when you get some Lebron fan yell at you how much Soccer stinks because of diving yet defends the guy so notorious for flopping/diving in the NBA. That's where I become annoyed by it. When Some die hard fan of basketball or Hockey is trying to give you the riot act how he hates diving in soccer so he doesn't watch it yet his sport theres just as much and it gets worse by the year.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I have been slowing getting into the EPL and have been surprised at how smooth those games are. They seem to have gotten rid of the excessive flopping to a large degree.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I really agree with this especially the last line here. I think this is why people hate it because of this. I also think some people are just too ignorant and don't want to try to understand. I've tried to teach a few people who don't like it the rules and strategy and I felt like I was pulling teeth. Every other sentence I got some snarky comment or whatever. It got to the point of why am I even bothering wasting my time with this.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think he means the people who hate it but still watch it just to complain about it. It's like the people who watch the Grammy's or OSCARS who don't like it and complain about it or keep watching a certain show they don't like and complain.But you're complaining about a guy complaining?
It's conversation, that's all
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I was in this camp. Not that I hated the sport, but that I didn't bother with it until (like somebody posted above) my son started playing as a kid. I am still trying to figure out what is going on during the games, but I at least have 20x more respect for the game after watching my son do it and watching more WC, EPL, etc.. even if I don't understand it fully - especially differences in offenses, formations, team styles, etc...
DJackson10
Footballguy
Its nice to hear or see someone come out of that appreciating it more. I don't expect everyone to like it but I wish more people were willing to accept some sort of understand or respect for the game and it's players. If we really want to get on the moral train that so many try to harp on not liking soccer we could really go down a long path with the other sports. The worst in Soccer I've seen is gambling on your team type stuff where as in American sports allow people that sexually assault people, beat their wives, run in drug gangs etc stay in our sports. I like the American sports as well but I think if some people want to go down the moral path they do then we could really spend a whole week just on American sports there and why they are bad and the cultural acceptance many American's have of it. Sure American's will bring in the racism in soccer but over the last 10 or so yrs a ton of supporters have done stuff to stop it. I forget which German team that has the Nazi support but they are literally banned from attending games and any signage or paraphanila displayed is removed and the person is arrested as well. In Italy Games are stopped for racism in the stands directed at players. If it continues the Homeside or whoever supporters is doing it that club forfeits the match. Whole sections are banned from matches or closed matches with no fans or TV or reporters is allowed. This effects club revenue as well.
Not "gotten rid of." They never had a problem. It's only crept in since the league opened up to foreign players. The Brits prided themselves on playing tough, hard-nosed soccer and used to make fun of foreign leagues where it was prevalent.
I have been slowing getting into the EPL and have been surprised at how smooth those games are. They seem to have gotten rid of the excessive flopping to a large degree.
jhib
Footballguy
Just to clarify - by "defending it," I meant defending soccer against the criticism, not defending the diving itself. I didn't get the impression anyone was actually defending the diving.
Arizona Ron
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
I'm not trolling just speaking the truth and honestly the truth hurts sometimes. People didn't give a dam that Ray Rice beat his wife till the saw the video. Theres people who say well it's their wife they can do what they want or it's a private matter. It's pretty simple American's love to defend clowns who are good at what they do but are quick to judge players who aren't as good labeling a distraction, not what the team is about etc.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Arizona Ron
Footballguy
Angry Beavers
Footballguy
i think we are getting off topic here but that is the way the world works... mediocre performers better tow the company line, top salespeople and performers get more latitude;
Played some soccer as a kid, enjoy the sport and have watched the WC. My two sons also played when they were much younger and have no interest.. they find it boring
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I do think a big part is the us vs. the world type of mentality. Again generalizing, but growing up it felt like soccer was just one of those weird sports that the rest of the world played but we didn't have time for - like cricket. Like I said, a lot of that would change (and has started to change) if we were any good at it and was able to dominate. Then I bet a whole lot more people would get on board.
Again, this type of thinking has changed a bit too, but it's still around a little bit in the small towns around here. I grew up in small town WI, and the "real men" wrestled, played football/baseball/basketball and soccer was for the kids that weren't strong enough for those.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Notebook wrong.
not sure who you are thinking of. Maybe Insein? Kind of similar avatar style.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
The less experience I had watching the game, the more the diving bothered me. When I first watched I mocked it and moved along to sports I understood and respected. The more I've watched, the less I care about the diving because the more I understand and respect the game. These guys at the highest levels are amazing. The game is fluid without commercials. The action is constant. The tension so thick in close games I become mesmerized by the constant change of possession. The crowds are a riot with the singing and chanting. Can't recommend giving it an open minded chance enough.
The Gator
Footballguy
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
I'm a soccer fan but Frank Ribery was caught banging underage girls and Karim Benzema tried to help blackmail his teammate (sorry RHE). Let's not pretend they have the moral high ground.
The Gator
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I’m a huge soccer fan and a MLS season ticket holder and while I don’t post about it I see the warts that the sport has - but all sports have them.
Some of the issues I have with soccer:
- diving/acting - it is a problem but is better now than in years past and if leagues adopt a review policy it should get better and better
- time wasting - it’s ironic that one of my favorite things about watching soccer is the 2 hours needed to watch a match. Having said that the in-game time wasting drives me insane when I watch a MLS match live. I watch to be entertained and not to watch a guy walking to a ball and then tossing is to another guy, who then waits 6 seconds to kick it. It’s weird because watching other sports I don’t get as irritated in the non-action.
- Red cards typically ruin a match - I doubt it will ever change (and I’m ok with that) but I do wonder if something like a penalty box would be a better idea. Dangerous play you could still disqualify a player but allow a sub to sit out his 5/10 minute penalty.
- PKs in tournaments
But having said that it’s a fantastic sport and I probably now watch more soccer than any other sport. I could come up with a similar list for any other sport out there. Like Andy said - watch what you like and don’t feel the need to dump on those who like something you don’t.
Sebowski
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
My son is almost 16, plays soccer, and is a huge professional (not MLS) soccer fan. He seemingly knows every player on every team in every league. Watching World Cup with him (we’re on vacation) has been interesting and fun. It’s like discovering your kid knows how to play the piano. You kind of wonder where he found the time to master the talent without you knowing. I mean, I knew he was a fan as he owns about 18 different jerseys, but I didn’t know he was a freaking encyclopedia
Maybe more kids today will become bigger soccer fans because it is possible/easier to consume content than it was in our generation growing up.
Maybe more kids today will become bigger soccer fans because it is possible/easier to consume content than it was in our generation growing up.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Same. I got into EPL after the last WC, and I've really enjoyed how the games flow. The fact that players get booked for embellishment surely helps. I'm still very much a "casual" fan compared to the soccerguys here.
I have been slowing getting into the EPL and have been surprised at how smooth those games are. They seem to have gotten rid of the excessive flopping to a large degree.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
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Ned
Footballguy
this post
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I do think this will be a bigger factor in the long-term growth of the sport in the US. When I was in college, the best way you had of learning about the game was playing FIFA video games or occasionally finding a Champions League game on ESPN if you were lucky. One MLS game a week on ESPN2, usually Thursday night, that used to be must-watch TV in our college apartment. Fox Soccer Channel (RIP) was a godsend when it became a thing.
Now you have so many more options to consume the sport if you're so inclined. MLS games all over the TV. EPL games. Bundesliga games. A ton of international games. Every game of every major tournament (okay, this one isn't new, but still).
Some kids today are growing up consuming so much more of the sport than we did as kids. It will only help in the longer-term.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Keep trying, I have high hopes for you.I just turned the words around that could be used to make the opposite point.
After all this time trying to be ironic on purpose and I get called that when I didn't mean to. Figures.
I shared this with a few buddies.....soccer would be much more fun if before the match they randomly placed little land mines throughout the field...players would have no idea where they were....not big enough to make you lose a leg or anything, but enough to knock you off your feet...a little like those exploding air bag pranks....I'd watch (if there were lots of mines)...
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Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
DJackson10
Footballguy
The problem is the fake patriotism of rooting for the US when it comes to sport and olympics. If team USA isn't good at something the team or sport doesn't get support. I've been saying this for awhile now but Basketball is leading down a path right now where the US might have the best athletes but when it comes to Olympic and international rules the other countries players are getting better at the fundamentals and team play needed where the US especially NBA is about hero ball and 1 v1. If we don't step up our player development I won't be shocked to see Team USA Basketball battling for Bronze or out of medal contention especially when the Lebron's and other guys of the world aren't playing anymore. Team USA will still beat those terrible teams who have zero business playing international but they could face stiff competition from Spain and other countries soon.KarmaPolice said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Never said they do. Just more compared to American Athletes they are pretty tame and I will say the younger players are far more mature. You don't see too many Manziel's and Mayfields in soccer and when you do they usually have pretty short careers or journey club guys.Tom Hagen said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
NBA is just as terrible and our Government is just as bad as the FIFA governing body.The Gator said:
There is no moral high ground when your governing body is FIFA.
DJackson10
Footballguy
My biggest gripes of Soccer are theseAAABatteries said:
-Diving needs to be handled better. Should be an automatic sending off as it's terrible sportsmanship. The time wasting is ridiculous too. When a guy is subbed out and walks and shakes everyones hand the ref needs to get involved and scoot the player along. If they don't obey they get a YC maybe for so many cards for diving the player is suspended X amount of games.
-Keepers throwing the ball over the box line and not getting called for a handball. I only saw this called once against Brad Guzan in the Copa America about a year or so ago. Many keepers do it
- The Fifa corruption is ridiculous but so is some of the fees going for players. One of the big issues I have is how some clubs like PSG can spend over $250M on just two players an Fifa doesn't bat an eye lash and then a few clubs have a spending spree they haven't seen in yrs and their financials get put into question. The FIFA Fair Play rules to stop the bigger teams from stacking up isn't working. Theres numerous loopholes in the system especially how PSG got Neymar.
- Agents getting part of a transfer fee for getting a player to a certain club that is one of their clients. Looking at you Mino Riola!!!! Also hate how agents get involved when the player was perfectly fine at the club and now the agent is causing issues.
-VAR: we need better understanding what is reviewable and whats not. FIFA should have a central station to have all matches on and can look at it right there and make the call similar to the NFL and NHL.
-Offsides needs to be explained better. Incredible inconsistent.
- Extra time: When there's an injury or player huddles to the officials wasting time then more time should be put on the clock and should be shown in the stadium how much extra time is now being given next to said extra time
-When players crowd the Ref after a call. You shouldn't be crowding him at all. He should start carding every single player who doesn't move. Its considering time wasting.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I'm a resident soccer nerd- played long ago at a pretty high level. First soccer game of any kind my dad or I ever saw was my first game when I was 10. We learned it together, but had no language or knowledge for it. Even though it felt like every kid my generation played at some point, it was more an activity than a sport, because it operated in a vacuum culturally. There was nothing on TV or in the papers about the sport and nobody discussing it. Playing pro after college literally wasn't an option- there wasn't a pro league. you could go to Europe to play, or get a job and play semi pro (I did the latter). The only way I learned the game was by playing.bigbottom said:
I've been saying for years in here- what's been lacking in the US is that sense of culture surrounding the sport. Kids and families/friends didn't talk about the big game on TV or their favorite players, let alone tactics, in the way my generation grew up having a catch, shooting hoops, etc, and seeing pro games live or on tv, reading and discussing the teams, players and sports all operating at the highest level.
I had hoped my generations kids would be the ones to change things- A combination of our collective generational knowledge and political/financial influence. And it's starting for sure- knowledgeable parents talking about games over dinner. MLS is still nascient 22 years? old, and true professional/euro style acadamies have only just started in earnest in the last few. We finally have a generation that grew up with pro teams to see and aspire to locally. But in reality, cable TV and internet has brought the best available games right to our homes, making nerds out of the shaders of the world- a sign that the culture is finally getting there.
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