Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Why soccer will never be big in the USA....... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter IC FBGCav
- Start date
comfortably numb
Footballguy
100% agree as I've gotten into soccer heavily the last 3-4 years.Chaos Commish said:
I too mocked it growing up. Hated it.
Slow...boring...1-0 games...why isnt the game over at 90min.......ties???wtf!!!?!??!
Loved the usual sports growing up.
I gave it more attention (as i started betting on it) and the game is very well presented on TV. Love the flow. Game starts at 9? Thats when they drop the ball. None of this 9:28 crap. Games end on point. Fluid games. No commercials. Great atheletes. I can now watch a 1-0 game and find it thrilling.
Diving sucks...but man...nothing worse than the over correcting NFL. 3rd and 8...Brady drops back gets some pressure and...incomplete. hold on, the linemans index finger grazed Brady's helmet (after he released the ball). Personal foul. Automatic 1st down!
If anyone gets into the WC and loses interest. I would HIGHLY recommend on say a sunday morning when your sitting around waiting for football. Throw on NSNBC or NBC and catch an EPL game. The atmopshere and the quality of play is great. Ignore the diving and extra time stuff and just enjoy the play setup and athleticism.
Truly a great sport. While i am so disappointed i didn't follow early on as all my family and friends folllowed. I am so glad i am watching 2 of the greatest players in their prime.
DJackson10
Footballguy
That's what many are hoping considering many matches can now be seen on TV. Bundeslinga has Fox and Fox Sports network, EPL has NBC and the Spanish, Italian and sometimes French League are on BEINSPORTS America. SO with the game more accessible in that degree and internet access to other things the game is way more accessible to younger crowd. I remember growing up and being younger then your sons age and you barely had any matches on TV. Heck even MLS didn't have a TV deal yet. After getting Digital I ended up with Fox Soccer so I watched a lot of matches especially Serie A on there. Other matches I watched on Watch ESPN when they were available. I watched matches I couldn't get online in some sort of capacity and after becoming 21 would run down to the city and bars that showed the matches down there. So your son has way more accessibility today to Soccer then many of us did who got involved either playing as kids or from family or friends involved.bigbottom said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
I honestly can't stand the EPL but I don't know if it's because of the Fans or I just don't like many clubs other then Newcastle United. I feel the supporters of the EPL become really entitled and if you say anything bad about their league they act like you disrespected their sister. Even though I'm a Milan fan I really love the German league a lot and the French League. Spain is ok but my issues with La Liga are the same as the EPL of the same 3 clubs are usually at top.IvanKaramazov said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
This is my hop as well. Fox Soccer Channel was absolutely a great thing to happen to many of us. The problem with the matches though is usually the Champions league was on during school and work hours. So unless you were like me in College with mostly morning classes or retail with a part time job you missed most of the matches. You were lucky if you found at least one match on early in the morning on weekends too. I grew up learning the game on Fifa as well as online more.Steve Tasker said:
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Between all the league matches, champions league, europa league, qualifiers, world cup, euro cup.....it seems that there is always great soccer to watch several times a week from August to June
The game play is great. I still haven't been able to get into the MLS. The quality isn't the same and it shows but im alowly atating to get there
Because of relegation, games between 2 teams at the bottom of the standings get so much attention and are hihjly watched. No one cares about a Browns/Bills game in November. If MLS had relegation id probably buy season tickets.
Picture college football.
Iowa st at Indiana would be a pretty big draw cause its football and has a great following. Now picture the loser of that game goes to D2. The intensity is insane. Aome of the relegation races are more exciting that the chace for the championship. What other aport setup can say that?
Maybe when Cleveland St clinches a spot in the NCAA tournament?
If you're on the fringe give it a good try.
I stil
The game play is great. I still haven't been able to get into the MLS. The quality isn't the same and it shows but im alowly atating to get there
Because of relegation, games between 2 teams at the bottom of the standings get so much attention and are hihjly watched. No one cares about a Browns/Bills game in November. If MLS had relegation id probably buy season tickets.
Picture college football.
Iowa st at Indiana would be a pretty big draw cause its football and has a great following. Now picture the loser of that game goes to D2. The intensity is insane. Aome of the relegation races are more exciting that the chace for the championship. What other aport setup can say that?
Maybe when Cleveland St clinches a spot in the NCAA tournament?
If you're on the fringe give it a good try.
I stil
ChiefD
Footballguy
Man, I have been hearing this soccer talk since I started playing in 1974.
All I know is:
1. I can now watch every World Cup game. When I was a kid, we were lucky to get the final.
2. My city has a successfuly professional franchise.
3. I can watch the best leagues in the world weekly just by turning on my TV. All I knew about world soccer as a kid I read in books given to me for birthdays and christmas.
4. I financed part of my college education playing soccer.
5. My children have SO MANY more opportunities for soccer teams and clubs than we ever dreamed of.
6. Every soccer field in my city is packed every weekend all year long with games and tournaments. We played on a field with a damn drainage manhole cover in the middle.
For those who just won’t accept this growth - that’s ok. I have heard people denigrate my sport since I was 5. But it’s a great game. I love it, man. And it IS growing in America. It just is.
All I know is:
1. I can now watch every World Cup game. When I was a kid, we were lucky to get the final.
2. My city has a successfuly professional franchise.
3. I can watch the best leagues in the world weekly just by turning on my TV. All I knew about world soccer as a kid I read in books given to me for birthdays and christmas.
4. I financed part of my college education playing soccer.
5. My children have SO MANY more opportunities for soccer teams and clubs than we ever dreamed of.
6. Every soccer field in my city is packed every weekend all year long with games and tournaments. We played on a field with a damn drainage manhole cover in the middle.
For those who just won’t accept this growth - that’s ok. I have heard people denigrate my sport since I was 5. But it’s a great game. I love it, man. And it IS growing in America. It just is.
DJackson10
Footballguy
The biggest developmental problem in the US is the Rules and laws that don't allow our kids to be signed by any European or other countries clubs until they are 18. Also our cams and training there is fees where in Europe they have Free to Play leagues and camps and America needs these FTP camps. Many of these families are paying $3-$5K for their kid to attend these camps. Not everyone has that kind of money. I don't like stereotyping here but soccer is more of a sport that became popular do to the poor not having much money. All you need was a decent pair of shoes and something that was comparable to a ball. Two trash cans or whatever each for each net and if you were lucky and in Europe especially England and Ireland they used the Onion bags sewn together for netting. We shouldn't have to pay huge money for our kids to learn the game and it's all because of the American Cultural greed. Anything to make a buck. The MLS is getting somewhere with the acamdemies but more needs to be done, A lot of this is talked about in the Players tribune article USMNT and Borrussa Dortmund player Cristian Pulisic wrote about with how his upbringing and training for professionally was much different then the European players and how he couldn't be signed to a European club till he was 18. even at Academy level.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
So awesome getting moring and afternoon CL games during the week. Ive passed time during many meetings checking scores following CL and league matches.
Those games mean a lot. Following an A's/Rays game at 1PM in June does nothing for me....but a match between Torino and Sampordia will intrest me to follow as one of those is fighting relegation a Europa spot next year. Even as a mets fan a W or L before Sept just doesnt mean anything in terms of wanting me to follow.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I actually didn't enjoy the sport when I played it. Maybe because my dad was so into it and we were growing further apart because I became interested in other sports he had zero interests in. Now after really enjoying the sport I wish I had stayed with it. I guess my biggest issue with playing at the time was I'm a huge Football and Eagles fan and I started to miss the Eagles games during the Fall Soccer season because my games were always on a Sunday. That was usually spent especially away games watching with my Pop-Pop.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I wish American Sports went to regulation. It would destroy the Tanking concept the NBA has. Probably why I hate the tanking so much is because if this was Europe the fans would riot against those tanking and the coach would be fired and many players sold off or wouldn't play. I hope MLS gets something together with the USDL and other leagues to form some sort of regulation. Rocco Commission who owns the NY Cosmos of the USL league gave I belie 500M or something to put the league together to possible form some sort of relegation system possible
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Just to be clear, in case others are confused by the wording. This is not a US rule. These are European rules that some (but not all) leagues follow.
And to be even more clear, these are only pro contracts we are talking about here. US kids can still be signed by teams when younger. Pulisic was signed by Dortmund at 16 and then signed his pro contract when he turned 18. We have US kids younger than 18 sprinkled all over Europe right now in various countries and academies.
DJackson10
Footballguy
More so I was going after terms of proper contracts and when they can actually join academies. Many US players an't go to Europe till 16 but unlike European kids can't sign a pro deal with a club until they are 18.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/24781
"Why Soccer Sucks
By Cenk Uygur
Imagine if Game 7 of the NBA Championship ended in a tie, and they decided the winners by shooting five free throws apiece. Imagine if the Superbowl ended in a tie, and they chose five players from each side to kick field goals to decide the winner. Imagine if the World Series ended in a tie, and they picked five pitchers aside to throw strikes, or five catchers to throw out base runners, or five batters to have a home run hitting contest.
It would be preposterous and infantile. And oh yeah, unjust. But that’s how the rest of the world is - a little underdeveloped and full of injustice. And that’s how they like their games.
America is based on a just and efficient meritocracy that thrives on measured competition. That’s why soccer has never really quite caught on here. They play a whole game and often the only score is a single goal awarded based on a flop in the penalty area. Americans would never stand for it. It reeks of random injustice and unearned glory.
Could you imagine if they played a whole basketball game and no one was able to score and then based on one foul the other team got a free throw worth fifty points? That about sums up soccer.
A culture gets the sport it deserves. While America runs and runs, the rest of the world takes its time and people’s lives often change with one critical stroke of luck. In America, we believe in second chances. There’s almost always hope that you can catch up in basketball and football. In soccer, you fall behind by two goals and you’re pretty much done.
This is the point when a liberal would say that I am giving America too much credit and that I am being unfair to the rest of the world. And that both cultures are fine, it’s just two different systems that lead to two different games. For all those who don’t believe I’m a former conservative, let me help prove it - the American system is better.
(Yes, I know these liberal and conservative labels are absurd, just roll with me here. Pretend you’re watching soccer and you’re not bothered by all the absurdities in the game.)
It’s better to have hope that you can overcome long odds and steep deficits. It’s better to have games decided by merit rather than the award of an often-times random arbiter. It is better to be more efficient and be more assured that’ll you’ll be rewarded for your labors.
How often have you seen a soccer game where one team completely outplays the other and the weaker side wins anyway based on a fluke goal? The answer is — all the time. I understand there’s luck and fluke plays in all sports, but they are not as critical when they are not the only score in the game.
In soccer, one goal often determines who wins. In the rest of the world, one strike against you often determines your whole life. And that sucks.
Yes, I know soccer is an art form and it has a different beauty. And actually I love the World Cup despite the fact that I think the players are unacceptably whiny actors and that the Artic ice cap is more likely to fall into the ocean than have an important soccer game with more than two goals. But despite my affinity for a game I actually grew up with (I was raised in Turkey and New Jersey, both soccer hubs), I can see its faults clearly. It might be the beautiful game but it is not the just game. To me, justice matters.
Go ahead, tell me how I don’t understand and how I am an American brute. Just don’t fall down in fake, agonizing pain as you’re complaining.
Credits and Clarifications - My friend, Steve Oh, who thinks soccer is much more of a bore than I do, came up with most of the analogies in the first paragraph. My friend and co-host, Ben Mankiewicz, came up with the fifty point free throw deciding the basketball game. I came up with the analogy of the games we play to our cultures. And I also realize that the current US government doesn’t help my “America is more just” argument, that’s one of the reasons I hate them. If Cheney continues in office for a couple of more years, who knows, maybe we’ll become a soccer nation after all."
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
We have have had US kids in academies as young as 12 in Europe.
The rules for US kids are no different than kids from Africa, South America etc.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
people are now posting articles from 12 years ago to support their view? Dead god
Jobber
Footballguy
people are now posting articles from 12 years ago to support their view? Dead god
Last edited by a moderator:
The Gator
Footballguy
X
That's definitely not it.
Culture; It's like a religion to some countries.
Coaching at the youth level; how many dads who don't even follow soccer get roped into coaching at the most important ages?
Scouting; MASSIVE amount of area to cover compared to Europe.
DJackson10
Footballguy
The US is as big as Europe so the scouting isn't the issue. they also don't have pay to play in Europe either and have free leagues.
The Gator
Footballguy
There's more than one country in europe and yes, scouting and player recognition is an issue.
Last edited by a moderator:
comfortably numb
Footballguy
I would love relegation in any sport. I would get heavily interested in MLS is they had relegation.
One other thing i have turned on and some may hate about soccer. A hand full of teams actually have a shot at winning. Ive made some decent change betting on juventus and Bayern to win their leagues the last 2-3 years.
Its true most leagues have a few teams with all the stars. I always loved the thought of parity. You stunk in 2017? You get the 1st pick to try to help your organization. It zeemed fair in my my mind. Lots of people hate on Golden State and the Yankees and so forth but now, i look back and think ....why wouldn't you want the best players playing with each other to offer the best product possible.
Barry Sanders was the greatest RB i ever saw play football.
Great. He won 1 more playoff game than I did.
Imagine Young, Rice, Emmit Smith against Favre, Sanders and Moss.
Im sure im in the minority on this one as i now hear so many people complain that there is only 3-4 teams that have any shot at winning the NBA and yes...it is boring.....but when you factor in relegation, teams like say the Nets, Kings, Knicks, Lakers and Suns...no shot at winning the finals but how great would their games be if 2 of those 5 teams were going to the D league if they didnt win enough in the NBA?
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I mean, look no further than Christian Pulisic. Absolutely the best prospect the USMNT has right now, and he was virtually unknown until Dortmund signed him when he was 17. (Maybe not entirely true because he had some success at the US youth level, but bear with me a bit) A player of that caliber in Europe has been front-and-center and on everyone's radar since he's like 10 years old. Those players don't slip through the cracks in Europe, but it makes you wonder how close he was to slipping through the cracks in America.
There's more than one country in europe and yes, scouting and player recognition is an issue.
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
If you want a little bit of light reading on some more conceptual topics of the world game, I'd recommend Soccernomics or How Soccer Explains the World. Neither is a particularly groundbreaking read, but they dive into more of the economics and sociology of the game worldwide. Kinda interesting for the discussion we're having here.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
I don't have an issue with what KD did. I think it's funny how people go after him though when Lebron started the whole thing. I guess it's not a problem for them because GS is a far superior team then the teams Lebron had with the Heat as well. But Lebron started it. I also don't blame KD for leaving. Did I want him else where? Sure but but he knew he was never winning a title in OKC with Russ and the org catered more to Russ then him so it was either stay in OKC and not win a title or go win a title. He chose title. My issues though with the NBA and this is unlike soccer the NBA an individual player impacts the team. If you don't have even one big name player your chances of getting out of the 1st round in the playoffs is very low. two super stars you have a chance maybe reaching Conference finals. 3 you got a nice path to having a chance to play in the finals and winning. Look at Liecester City winning the EPL a few yrs back. Outside of Mahrez who on their starting 11 is a star player a Madrid/Barca or one of the big teams would spend huge money on? Is it cool seeing all the greats in Soccer in one club? Yeah and me complaining would make me a hypocrite considering I'm a Milan fan and they were stacked with the best of the best for yrs. I agree with the last parapgrapgh though. It'd make things interesting and keep teams involved but we all know with all the money involved already in the NBA and other pro leagues regulations will never happen. I will say the one thing American will complain about is if there's no playoffs. Look at the stink people make about College football.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I must have read or comprehended what that part of the article went through then because I could've sworn he said there were regulations from the US that made it hard to go to Europe.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
I meant to put this in my previous post but then I got high.
This is very much correct in regards to hurting the US. Comp soccer is stupid expensive and cuts out a very large chunk of the population. Most of the clubs have fundraising/sponsors...and it's still expensive. Then when free soccer comes around(7th/8th grade-ish / high school) kids are waaaaaay behind in development.
Last edited by a moderator:
DJackson10
Footballguy
That would be the only problem however I think we could pull off regulation. The only problem would be the draft.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't know about age restrictions for kids, but European players who are citizens of EU countries have an extra benefit of being able to play professionally in an EU nation without a visa. The EU market allows citizens of any EU country to work in any other EU country without a visa. It does not allow people from non-EU countries (like America) to do so.
Christian Pulisic, to use him as an example again, holds Croatian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. This allows him to play in Germany without needing a German visa. It's easier and cheaper for a German team to find a player with an EU work permit than to sponsor a visa for an American. Of course, if the American is that good though, he'll find work somewhere.
Last edited by a moderator:
comfortably numb
Footballguy
People bag on KD or Lebron but lots of people may not realize after Jordan won his 1st 3 and left for baseball, when he came back, one of the greatest rebounders in NBA history joined his team....and then at that time what most considered the best player to come out of Europe (Kukock) joined the Bulls.
It may not be the same as Jordan leaving to play for the Rockets with Hakeem but Jordan had big talents that came to play with him to help him win 3 more.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
comfortably numb
Footballguy
I can see playoffs being a big deal as it is so foreign to us.
" so this Manchester team ia pretty good...when is the final played?"
"Well...there is no final"
"How do you know who the champ is?"
"When they mathematically clinch the best record"
"When will that be?"
"Could be this week...if they win and Liverpool loses or draws "
"But there is atill 7 weeks to play...you mean you crown the champion during the season?
"Ye...a.....exactly"
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I love promotion and relegation but it will never happen in this country.
One of the reasons billionaires are throwing hundreds of millions into MLS is because when they do, they do so with the knowledge that they will not have the financial risk of relegation.
Getting 75% of the MLS owners to agree to relegation is never going to happen in my lifetime.
I think it is far more likely that MLS just continues to grow to 32 teams and then eventually 36 teams as its final number 20 years or so from now.
One of the reasons billionaires are throwing hundreds of millions into MLS is because when they do, they do so with the knowledge that they will not have the financial risk of relegation.
Getting 75% of the MLS owners to agree to relegation is never going to happen in my lifetime.
I think it is far more likely that MLS just continues to grow to 32 teams and then eventually 36 teams as its final number 20 years or so from now.
DJackson10
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
promotion/relegation and playoffs do not need to be mutually exclusive. There are some countries around the world build in various types of playoff system along with pro/rel.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
comfortably numb
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think there was something with the Visa and being American and when you can get it or something or you still need a parent. I have to find the article and read it again though.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
There are good examples but Pulisic is not one of them IMO. His talent emerged at a very young age and was noticed (he was impossible to miss)
I think his dad being involved in the sport certainly helped.
Pulisic was clowning kids when he was 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmmKY8HIeK8
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The parents, or at least one of them, has to move to Europe if the player is under a certain age. That’s tough and is a huge issue for Americans (and other non-euro kids). Uprooting your family, career, etc just to give your kid a long-shot at making it in a club academy is a huge gamble with very long odds.
One issue that is uniquely American is the close connection between sports and academics. For most US athletes, the pinnacle of achievement is a D1 scholarship. If an American kid wants to join a Euro academy, he’s pretty much committed to forgoing a shot at a scholarship. I know a kid who came up through the Dallas academy and had played at every U level for the US national team. When faced with a choice between a four year ride at Duke and an opportunity to move to England to trial at a major English club, it was not a hard choice. He got a great degree for free and is now a lawyer, coaches youth teams in his spare time. There’s a local kid named Novakovich who gave up a scholarship at Marquette University to go play in the Dutch league. He’s doing great and has played for the USMNT, but I think the jury is still out as to whether he made the right decision. In Europe and most everywhere else in the world, there’s no such thing as university scholarships or school based sports teams, and a university education doesn’t have the cost it does here, so it’s not an issue for those kids.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Pulisic was known pretty well. I live in Philly and he's about 1hr and 40 mins from where I live. We use to hear about him constantly in our community and he almost played for a club near hear linked to the Union. They missed there chance big time right there though
DJackson10
Footballguy
I know the Novakovich guy you are talking about. I met him when the US played their match in Philly. At least I think it was him. One of the Unions players is from my hometown and his parents are friends with a family of my best friend from that area before I moved. The player was able to get us to meet some of the players. I was disappointed Dempsey wasn't there but I got to meet Pulisisc and Nova as well as some of the Union players there. Also met Zach and Julie Ertz at the Match which was awesome by chance. I have a co worker who's son is an assistant coach for the Eagles. But yeah I know who Novakovich is. There is no school sports university based in Europe. I have friends from college who the college sports are so new to them and really don't get it sometimes.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
How many games have been played in this world cup?
How many 1-0 games?
How many games end in a tie?
Similar threads
