Why soccer will never be big in the USA....... (1 Viewer)

[roadkill1292]

I'm done talking soccer

You should never have started.

 

[Dentist]

I'd like soccer more if they got rid of offsides. Everytime there's an awesome play starting to develop, the ####### ref holds up his flag.

I used to think this also... then smarter people at soccer than me educated me on why you just HAVE to have the offsides penalty.

Now... I do inherently agree that soccer needs more scoring so that there are less ties (the worst outcome in all of sports) and so that scoring seems like less of a luck based thing.

Sports that have the lowest number of upsets are games in which there are a high number of scoring opportunities (like the NBA where there are almost no appreciable upsets)... whereas sports with low numbers of scores have higher upsets... football, baseball, hockey

So after discussing how to fix soccer ad nauseum with several experts in the field, I determined the best way to accomplish things without compromising the game too much was to increase the goal size by 15%.

Done. Soccer fixed

I don't want more scoring, just more scoring chances. Soccer is basically 90 minutes of kicking the ball back and forth with very few great moments in between.

That said, the fact that it's by far the most popular sport in the world leads me to believe its my problem to get over and that it doesn't need fixing.

Ok. Have 2 goals and 2 goalkeepers on each side then... more options

 

[butcher boy]

I'd like soccer more if they got rid of offsides. Everytime there's an awesome play starting to develop, the ####### ref holds up his flag.

I used to think this also... then smarter people at soccer than me educated me on why you just HAVE to have the offsides penalty.

Now... I do inherently agree that soccer needs more scoring so that there are less ties (the worst outcome in all of sports) and so that scoring seems like less of a luck based thing.

Sports that have the lowest number of upsets are games in which there are a high number of scoring opportunities (like the NBA where there are almost no appreciable upsets)... whereas sports with low numbers of scores have higher upsets... football, baseball, hockey

So after discussing how to fix soccer ad nauseum with several experts in the field, I determined the best way to accomplish things without compromising the game too much was to increase the goal size by 15%.

Done. Soccer fixed

I don't want more scoring, just more scoring chances. Soccer is basically 90 minutes of kicking the ball back and forth with very few great moments in between.

That said, the fact that it's by far the most popular sport in the world leads me to believe its my problem to get over and that it doesn't need fixing.

Ok. Have 2 goals and 2 goalkeepers on each side then... more options

Too complicated. Just change offsides to not be so strict and I'd be happy.

But again, I'm an American with a short attention span. Considering its popularity, the sport shouldn't have to be changed just to appeal more to one nation.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I'd like soccer more if they got rid of offsides. Everytime there's an awesome play starting to develop, the ####### ref holds up his flag.

I used to think this also... then smarter people at soccer than me educated me on why you just HAVE to have the offsides penalty.

Now... I do inherently agree that soccer needs more scoring so that there are less ties (the worst outcome in all of sports) and so that scoring seems like less of a luck based thing.

Sports that have the lowest number of upsets are games in which there are a high number of scoring opportunities (like the NBA where there are almost no appreciable upsets)... whereas sports with low numbers of scores have higher upsets... football, baseball, hockey

So after discussing how to fix soccer ad nauseum with several experts in the field, I determined the best way to accomplish things without compromising the game too much was to increase the goal size by 15%.

Done. Soccer fixed

I don't want more scoring, just more scoring chances. Soccer is basically 90 minutes of kicking the ball back and forth with very few great moments in between.

That said, the fact that it's by far the most popular sport in the world leads me to believe its my problem to get over and that it doesn't need fixing.

Ok. Have 2 goals and 2 goalkeepers on each side then... more options

Too complicated. Just change offsides to not be so strict and I'd be happy.

But again, I'm an American with a short attention span. Considering its popularity, the sport shouldn't have to be changed just to appeal more to one nation.

I am a huge fan of the sport but I would welcome small changes to assist the offensive side of the game. Hockey and football have made a bunch of changes over the years to assist offense but soccer has not made a significant change since the early 90's (both changes helped).

Even something as trivial as the spray they are using this summer will help.

FIFA makes MLB look young and nimble in comparison in terms of making changes.

 

[Insein]

This is LHucks level here.

I just assumed FC was LHucks.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This is LHucks level here.

I just assumed FC was LHucks.

I think a lot of people have assumed that. Ironically LHucks actually participated in the soccer threads. He was ridiculed a lot but he was not trolling the sport.But it is very LHucks like to make an outlandish statement like the 98% number, set up a public poll where you fix the question significantly to support your pov and then still have it fail to get anywhere close to a 98% number.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I'd like soccer more if they got rid of offsides. Everytime there's an awesome play starting to develop, the ####### ref holds up his flag.

I used to think this also... then smarter people at soccer than me educated me on why you just HAVE to have the offsides penalty.

Now... I do inherently agree that soccer needs more scoring so that there are less ties (the worst outcome in all of sports) and so that scoring seems like less of a luck based thing.

Sports that have the lowest number of upsets are games in which there are a high number of scoring opportunities (like the NBA where there are almost no appreciable upsets)... whereas sports with low numbers of scores have higher upsets... football, baseball, hockey

So after discussing how to fix soccer ad nauseum with several experts in the field, I determined the best way to accomplish things without compromising the game too much was to increase the goal size by 15%.

Done. Soccer fixed

I don't want more scoring, just more scoring chances. Soccer is basically 90 minutes of kicking the ball back and forth with very few great moments in between.

That said, the fact that it's by far the most popular sport in the world leads me to believe its my problem to get over and that it doesn't need fixing.

Ok. Have 2 goals and 2 goalkeepers on each side then... more options

If they put goals on the sides of the field, Spain would be unstoppable.

 

[msommer]

I'd like soccer more if they got rid of offsides. Everytime there's an awesome play starting to develop, the ####### ref holds up his flag.

I used to think this also... then smarter people at soccer than me educated me on why you just HAVE to have the offsides penalty.

Now... I do inherently agree that soccer needs more scoring so that there are less ties (the worst outcome in all of sports) and so that scoring seems like less of a luck based thing.

Sports that have the lowest number of upsets are games in which there are a high number of scoring opportunities (like the NBA where there are almost no appreciable upsets)... whereas sports with low numbers of scores have higher upsets... football, baseball, hockey

So after discussing how to fix soccer ad nauseum with several experts in the field, I determined the best way to accomplish things without compromising the game too much was to increase the goal size by 15%.

Done. Soccer fixed

I don't want more scoring, just more scoring chances. Soccer is basically 90 minutes of kicking the ball back and forth with very few great moments in between.

That said, the fact that it's by far the most popular sport in the world leads me to believe its my problem to get over and that it doesn't need fixing.

Ok. Have 2 goals and 2 goalkeepers on each side then... more options

Too complicated. Just change offsides to not be so strict and I'd be happy.

But again, I'm an American with a short attention span. Considering its popularity, the sport shouldn't have to be changed just to appeal more to one nation.

I am a huge fan of the sport but I would welcome small changes to assist the offensive side of the game. Hockey and football have made a bunch of changes over the years to assist offense but soccer has not made a significant change since the early 90's (both changes helped).

Even something as trivial as the spray they are using this summer will help.

FIFA makes MLB look young and nimble in comparison in terms of making changes.

I suppose we could set up a vote where every football fan in the world could influence the changes in the sport. Even the many American fans...

 

[NewlyRetired]

I'd like soccer more if they got rid of offsides. Everytime there's an awesome play starting to develop, the ####### ref holds up his flag.

I used to think this also... then smarter people at soccer than me educated me on why you just HAVE to have the offsides penalty.

Now... I do inherently agree that soccer needs more scoring so that there are less ties (the worst outcome in all of sports) and so that scoring seems like less of a luck based thing.

Sports that have the lowest number of upsets are games in which there are a high number of scoring opportunities (like the NBA where there are almost no appreciable upsets)... whereas sports with low numbers of scores have higher upsets... football, baseball, hockey

So after discussing how to fix soccer ad nauseum with several experts in the field, I determined the best way to accomplish things without compromising the game too much was to increase the goal size by 15%.

Done. Soccer fixed

I don't want more scoring, just more scoring chances. Soccer is basically 90 minutes of kicking the ball back and forth with very few great moments in between.

That said, the fact that it's by far the most popular sport in the world leads me to believe its my problem to get over and that it doesn't need fixing.

Ok. Have 2 goals and 2 goalkeepers on each side then... more options

Too complicated. Just change offsides to not be so strict and I'd be happy.

But again, I'm an American with a short attention span. Considering its popularity, the sport shouldn't have to be changed just to appeal more to one nation.

I am a huge fan of the sport but I would welcome small changes to assist the offensive side of the game. Hockey and football have made a bunch of changes over the years to assist offense but soccer has not made a significant change since the early 90's (both changes helped).

Even something as trivial as the spray they are using this summer will help.

FIFA makes MLB look young and nimble in comparison in terms of making changes.

I suppose we could set up a vote where every football fan in the world could influence the changes in the sport. Even the many American fans...

The only vote FIFA recognizes is green and comes in large suit cases

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

 

[Norman Paperman]

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

Nothing new here - all good points.

1. Flopping serves a few purposes: accent the actual foul, make sure the ref sees/calls it; hope to upgrade the foul to a yellow card based on perceived severity. Both of these things are done to help your team get an advantage - not really any different than a basketball player selling a charge, or a football or baseball player trying to sell a trapped catch; it also is a chance for the player, and others, to catch a breather. I have learned to live with the flops, and back in my playing days, I even flopped a time or few. What I don't like, and what I think can be dealt with is the "fake" injury - if you have ever been stepped on or kicked in the shin, that may not look like much, but it is not a fake injury. What I am talking about is the blatant - no-contact flop, or get hit in the stomach, and immediately clutch your face as if it had been shot - where you are simply lying, instead of embellishing (a fine distinction to be sure). I would like those incidents reviewed and punished severely post-match. Sometimes they are, but most of the time not. Start handing out serious fines and suspensions, and that will clean up the game considerably.

2. The clock now is a lot better than when I played - now the extra time is shown to everyone in advance, and unless there is any unnecessary time wasting in the extra-time the referee is pretty close to that time. When I played nobody knew when the game would end. When I was reffing youth games, I would just make it up as I went, and always allowed one last attack to continue to its conclusion.

3. Refs do have a big impact - wait until you see the play, where a defender fouls an offensive player on a break away, in the box. Foul is called, penalty kick (essentially a goal) is awarded, and the defender is tossed from the game with no substitute. About the absolute harshest penalty that can be delivered in any sport. Refs are also not consistent enough, and too often call fouls they don't see, but rather assume from the results of a play. I'd like for there to be a second ref on the field - essentially 1 primary ref for each half. Of course, just like in the NFL you could call holding on every play, a ref could call a foul on every corner kick - I'd rather not see that happen. My last grip is for the referees assistants, or linesmen in my day - those ####ers never understand the rule that the entire ball has to cross the line to be out.

Offsides is such a tough call to actually see properly - assistant is supposed to be lined up on the last defender, but its a fluid game, and the assistant does well to stay within a couple of yards of the last defender, and even then, the view is only correct if they are looking straight across the field. So, maybe they change the rule a little by extending the area where a player can be offsides. Right now, a player cannot be offsides on his own end of the field, maybe extend that to midway into offensive end of the field? If that happened though, I think you would see more teams play deeper, and make scoring even more difficult.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

I agree with all 3 points.

Sadly 2 of them (the first two) could be fixed easily but most of the rest of the world just assumed flopping is part of the game. As you said it is creeping into other sports as well. Hockey dives, basketball flops, even football now fakes injuries to stop the fast working offenses. it sucks, but I am unsure anything is ever going to happen

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

These are legit complaints that bother most soccer fans to some degree as well, and I think even the most sensitive soccer fans have no problem discussing the game rationally, as any fan would discuss the faults in his favorite game. Flopping in soccer is something that bothers just about everyone, but I think it is exaggerated by critics. It happens and I don't like it, but it doesn't ruin games for me.

As for #2, I would ask what is more ridiculous - the ending to soccer games, where the ref tries to blow the whistle at a subjectively reasonable time when the 90 minutes have passed and the ball is not in play, or a basketball game where you play 4 quarters and then pretend hundredths of seconds matter at the very end? You can sit at a game and watch seconds ticking off while the ball is out of play for the first three + quarters when no one cares, but then the refs take 5 minutes to decide that .07 seconds should go back on the clock at the end. And then there are the multiple time outs and other gamesmanship that sometimes causes the last minute of a game to take 10. That's a charade imo and I prefer the way soccer time is kept.

As for #3, I agree a bad day by the ref can have a huge impact, but that is more true in a tournament like the world cup than in league play. Over the course of a full soccer season, referee calls will even out and there's usually no argument that the best team wins the championship. It helps that there are no playoffs in most soccer leagues. Everyone complains about the refs as they do in all sports, but in the end the game is decided on the field and referee mistakes have very little impact.

 

[B Maverick]

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

I agree with all 3 points.

Sadly 2 of them (the first two) could be fixed easily but most of the rest of the world just assumed flopping is part of the game. As you said it is creeping into other sports as well. Hockey dives, basketball flops, even football now fakes injuries to stop the fast working offenses. it sucks, but I am unsure anything is ever going to happen

I love the extra time. It also took me a long time to be ok with the 4th ref displaying the amount of time left. One of the things I loved about playing was not knowing the time left. I am ok with posting the time left but still love that you can have a few minutes for that one last ditch effort (2 goals in the extra 4 to win the CL 2-1 for instance). Wouldn't change extra time at all.

And refs suck, but at least they are better then those in the NBA

 

[Steve Tasker]

As for #3, I agree a bad day by the ref can have a huge impact, but that is more true in a tournament like the world cup than in league play. Over the course of a full soccer season, referee calls will even out and there's usually no argument that the best team wins the championship. It helps that there are no playoffs in most soccer leagues. Everyone complains about the refs as they do in all sports, but in the end the game is decided on the field and referee mistakes have very little impact.

Like this one?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

I agree with all 3 points.

Sadly 2 of them (the first two) could be fixed easily but most of the rest of the world just assumed flopping is part of the game. As you said it is creeping into other sports as well. Hockey dives, basketball flops, even football now fakes injuries to stop the fast working offenses. it sucks, but I am unsure anything is ever going to happen

I love the extra time. It also took me a long time to be ok with the 4th ref displaying the amount of time left. One of the things I loved about playing was not knowing the time left. I am ok with posting the time left but still love that you can have a few minutes for that one last ditch effort (2 goals in the extra 4 to win the CL 2-1 for instance). Wouldn't change extra time at all.

in general I like added time as well but because of the sports depth of corruption, I always fear this is one of the easiest places to affect the game.

I think we can both admit to an enormous amount of games where the added time looks either way too small or way too big.

I think the last ditch effort can still happen with a controlled clock but I agree that it does remove some of the "when will he blow the whistle" type of excitement.

In the end a controlled clock for me removes the "injured" player/time wasting that infests the game and that tradeoff is worth it to me.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

I've given this suggestion no thought at all so it might be really dumb.

 

[The Gator]

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

Very interesting

 

[B Maverick]

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

I agree with all 3 points.

Sadly 2 of them (the first two) could be fixed easily but most of the rest of the world just assumed flopping is part of the game. As you said it is creeping into other sports as well. Hockey dives, basketball flops, even football now fakes injuries to stop the fast working offenses. it sucks, but I am unsure anything is ever going to happen

I love the extra time. It also took me a long time to be ok with the 4th ref displaying the amount of time left. One of the things I loved about playing was not knowing the time left. I am ok with posting the time left but still love that you can have a few minutes for that one last ditch effort (2 goals in the extra 4 to win the CL 2-1 for instance). Wouldn't change extra time at all.

in general I like added time as well but because of the sports depth of corruption, I always fear this is one of the easiest places to affect the game.

I think we can both admit to an enormous amount of games where the added time looks either way too small or way too big.

I think the last ditch effort can still happen with a controlled clock but I agree that it does remove some of the "when will he blow the whistle" type of excitement.

In the end a controlled clock for me removes the "injured" player/time wasting that infests the game and that tradeoff is worth it to me.

Never been a soccer fan but am really starting to get into it. I'm going full bore into this year's World Cup and am going to try to catch as many games as possible. That said, here are the barriers that were tough to overcome and some of the things that I think makes the sport less appealing to Americans beyond the simple "they don't score enough".

1) Flopping. Americans hate flopping and it's far worse in soccer than any other sport. Yes, it happens in the NBA too but not nearly to the extent of soccer where guys will lie on the ground crying without any contact at all and then pop up fine when they don't see a card. It's also more recent in the NBA and they've taken fairly immediate action to try and stop it whereas soccer almost seems to embrace it as part of the game.

2) Can they not pay someone minimum wage to be a clock operator? Seriously, I understand that 2000 years ago when soccer was invented you had to fudge the time clock a little, but there's no reason they can't just stop the damn clock when there is a throw-in, foul, free kick, etc. The whole concept of extra time is just stupid and teams abuse it entirely. Watching the US elimination game in the last World Cup was as frustrating an experience as I've ever had watching sports. There's nothing quite like watching the high end "strategies" of choosing to substitute out the furthest guy on the field to waste more time, every player taking a dive and feigning an injury every two minutes, taking as long as possible for throw-ins, etc. Imagine an NBA where the Heat could get a 4th quarter lead on the Spurs and then LeBron could fake a leg cramp and waste 4 minutes of ACTUAL GAME TIME limping to the bench. So dumb.

3) Refs have an even bigger impact. It's one thing when a bad call is made that costs a team 2 points in an NBA game where 200 points will be scored, or even 6 points in an NFL game where 60 will be scored. It's another thing entirely when a bad call costs a team 1 point in a game where 2 points will be scored. A bad offsides call, a PK that shouldn't have been, or anything that either costs or gives a team a chance at scoring has a bigger impact than a bad call can in any other sport.

I agree with all 3 points.

Sadly 2 of them (the first two) could be fixed easily but most of the rest of the world just assumed flopping is part of the game. As you said it is creeping into other sports as well. Hockey dives, basketball flops, even football now fakes injuries to stop the fast working offenses. it sucks, but I am unsure anything is ever going to happen

I love the extra time. It also took me a long time to be ok with the 4th ref displaying the amount of time left. One of the things I loved about playing was not knowing the time left. I am ok with posting the time left but still love that you can have a few minutes for that one last ditch effort (2 goals in the extra 4 to win the CL 2-1 for instance). Wouldn't change extra time at all.

in general I like added time as well but because of the sports depth of corruption, I always fear this is one of the easiest places to affect the game.

I think we can both admit to an enormous amount of games where the added time looks either way too small or way too big.

I think the last ditch effort can still happen with a controlled clock but I agree that it does remove some of the "when will he blow the whistle" type of excitement.

In the end a controlled clock for me removes the "injured" player/time wasting that infests the game and that tradeoff is worth it to me.

Yes we can.

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

Very interesting

Indeed.

 

[msommer]

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

Very interesting

The team that was ahead would just kick the ball out of bounds

 

[The Gator]

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

Very interesting

The team that was ahead would just kick the ball out of bounds

Hard to do if they don't have the ball

This would help because they'd press on defense more to try and force a turnover instead of sitting back.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

Very interesting

The team that was ahead would just kick the ball out of bounds

Right, the idea isn't to prolong the game forever. It's to make sure the game doesn't suddenly end just as a team is on the attack with the potential to score the winning or tying goal. If the team in the lead can get a foot on the ball and kick it out of bounds, then they win.

 

[msommer]

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

Very interesting

The team that was ahead would just kick the ball out of bounds

Right, the idea isn't to prolong the game forever. It's to make sure the game doesn't suddenly end just as a team is on the attack with the potential to score the winning or tying goal. If the team in the lead can get a foot on the ball and kick it out of bounds, then they win.

I can only see this make any sense in tied games. But realistically when you have been running around for 90 minutes and extra 30 seconds are not likely to matter. And if the score is 2-0 or 3-1 it is just prolonging the match because one score doesn't matter anyway.

Even in situations where that last attack has the chance to change the outcome, the leading team can sell out to gain the ball as opposed to defending the goal.

Which the team behind has likely already done for awhile. I don't really see how it improves the game.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

the leading team can sell out to gain the ball as opposed to defending the goal.

Seems risky for a team to do this.

 

[Norman Paperman]

What if they had a controlled clock, but the game didn't end until the ball went out of bounds? Sort of like how in football they finish the play even after the clock expires.

Very interesting

The team that was ahead would just kick the ball out of bounds

Right, the idea isn't to prolong the game forever. It's to make sure the game doesn't suddenly end just as a team is on the attack with the potential to score the winning or tying goal. If the team in the lead can get a foot on the ball and kick it out of bounds, then they win.

For all intents and purposes - this is what happens. Ref will usually allow one last build-up, but once it is not a scoring threat, he'll blow the whistle. Time will be extended for a free kick/corner kick - much like an untimed play in football.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's obviously catching on in some parts. Really minor league soccer is the thing to watch. Must be 50 teams in the lower divisions.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So much fun.  I hate myself for wasting half my life not following this game.

 

[Ned]

2 years later and now I can't get enough soccer.  I'll watch NASL games if I see them on TV, have attended MLS and ASL games, etc.  

Soccer > NFL

 

[Kafka]

I am a huge fan of the sport but I would welcome small changes to assist the offensive side of the game. Hockey and football have made a bunch of changes over the years to assist offense but soccer has not made a significant change since the early 90's (both changes helped).

Even something as trivial as the spray they are using this summer will help.

FIFA makes MLB look young and nimble in comparison in terms of making changes.

Heathen.

 

[Godsbrother]

2 years later and now I can't get enough soccer.  I'll watch NASL games if I see them on TV, have attended MLS and ASL games, etc.  

Soccer > NFL

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Soccer > NFL

I'm still a noob at soccer, but when you've grown accustomed to the NFL, the simplicity of the soccer rulebook and the flow of the game is a real breath of fresh air.  

 

[roadkill1292]

Oh, it's twue, it's twue. The NFL is a body- and soul-destroying ####show.

Uh, sorry, JB.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I'm still a noob at soccer, but when you've grown accustomed to the NFL, the simplicity of the soccer rulebook and the flow of the game is a real breath of fresh air.  

I love the NFL on Redzone, but without it the game is damn near unwatchable.

Also nice to know that your game will end somewhere between 1h50m and 1h55m after it kicks off.  No TV timeouts, no parade of free throws down the stretch, no commercials.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Also, if you're really curious about what might be possible in the US... check out FC Cincinnati.  They're a 3rd Division (USL) club that's drawing 17k per match.

 

[comfortably numb]

So much fun.  I hate myself for wasting half my life not following this game.

This is actually where I am....and I grew up with Portuguese soccer loving family/friends and I wanted nothing to do with it growing up.

Now I really enjoy sat/sun mornings into the afternoon when I can watch all these games appreciating watching a play develop where as before I was ignorant to the game feeling it was just a bunch of dudes running around for 2 hours to a 0-0 tie.

People want to change soccer but I think it's fine. Probably the only thing I would work on harder policing is the flopping. A game can severely be altered by a timely flop.

Furthermore,  the other sports can learn sooooo much from soccer. 

NBA...team select a player to shoot the free throws. Hack-a-shaq my asz!

NFL..if a DB gets beat at their 24yd line they can pull on a a WR's jersey and take a penalty to avoid a 76yd TD....in soccer that would be 1st and goal and the player would get ejected and suspended for the next game. Same for a personal found or unsportsmanlike conduct.  Each week at least a player or 4 are tossed from a game in soccer. NFL could clean up lots of bad uneccessary hits with a red card type system which would limit the injury exposure these guys face each week.

 

[shader]

So much fun.  I hate myself for wasting half my life not following this game.

I'm right there with you man.  

 

[shader]

Soccer vs American football is an interesting conversation, and one that I argued (on the NFL side of things) for many years.  Now, I'm heavily slanted towards soccer in my overall interests.  In reality, there are 2 reasons why NFL Sundays might still be a little more exciting to me.

1. Red Zone Channel:  It's awesome

2. Fantasy Football:  It converts better to football than soccer, imho. 

But in terms of just straight watching an NFL game?  It's unbelievably painful.  The only reason I do it is fantasy, but I find myself usually just pausing the game, doing other stuff, then liberally zipping through commercials, stoppages and timeouts.  

Yeah, some soccer games really stink.  There are styles of play that bore me to tears.  But I can sit and watch a full soccer game easily.  Cant' do that with the NFL.  

It's almost like watching a story or a narrative unfold.  The NFL doesn't allow that to happen because literally 90% of the time there is no action. That's not to say that I don't love American football, because I do.

But soccer is quickly catching on and at this pace will pass baseball and basketball in American popularity within a decade or two.

 

[Todem]

I am not a huge soccer fan...not in the least bit. But watching a top notch soccer match is a pleasure compared to the labor of pain of trying to sit through an NFL broadcast today. Watching full games is incredibly bad now.

It is down right painful. If Red-Zone were not around....seriously...I would be done with the NFL. Totally done. I would just watch my Dolphins game (which has been a painful exercise going on 20 years now) and spend my time doing other things. The NFL as a league IMO has really lost it's way. Yet more people watch football now. They have done a remarkable job marketing the game while the quality of the game itself and the broadcasts have fallen down a black hole of TV timeouts, excessive rule changes where they spend 20 minutes discussing if that last play was a catch.

It's ridiculous.

But ahhhhhh Red-Zone. What an awesome channel. I love it. It reminds me why I used to love NFL football. No commercials, all action. It is amazing. If they ever change that format...I will give the NFL the finger. I still think there have been far too many rule changes that favor the offense and have also mucked up what the game is supposed to be. You know....played in real time and not in HD slo-mo. The excessive amount of replays has destroyed the game....not helped it like so many advocates of replay continue to insist. It's a #### show. Referees have zero confidence they can even get a call right with there own eyes anymore. And the NFL has too. They review every turnover and TD.....what a ####### mess and disruption of the natural emotion and spontaneity that sports is supposed to have.

The old replay system was fine. Each coach get's 2 challenges per half. If your wrong....you lose a timeout for that half and the ability to challenge again that half. No challenges in the last 2 minutes (let the refs call the game for better or for worse and live with the calls like most of us do on any other ball field). Done. No constant disruptions to the flow of the games, and the sheer amount of BS with all the game stoppages.

Damn I miss those days. the 80's and 90's was amazing in the NFL. Such a great time, great players, great rivalries, games flowed far better. Just better.

 

[El Floppo]

we still bumping all the soccer threads?

 

[trogg78]

Also, if you're really curious about what might be possible in the US... check out FC Cincinnati.  They're a 3rd Division (USL) club that's drawing 17k per match.

This is probably the only year I haven't been to a single reds game but I've been to two FC Cincinnati games with the whole family.  Everyone had a blast.  It helps that it's walking distance from my house and we can get $5 tickets. 

 

[Wrigley]

we still bumping all the soccer threads?

No wonder this place is going to crap

 

[El Floppo]

No wonder this place is going to crap

if by crap you mean soccer amazingness, yes.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

So much fun.  I hate myself for wasting half my life not following this game.

Depending on how old you are, there really weren't many good options for most of our lifetimes in this country. Sitting at a bar at 7:00 am is fun when you're in college, not so cool in your 40s with a wife and kids at home. "Following" European footy in the 80s and 90s for me often meant going to the bookstore to read month old results in Kicker magazine. The internet helped, but it was still very hard to watch many games until about 10 years or so ago. The entire transfer window circus is also a very modern affair - a complete nonstory until approx 2000. 

 

[msommer]

Depending on how old you are, there really weren't many good options for most of our lifetimes in this country. Sitting at a bar at 7:00 am is fun when you're in college, not so cool in your 40s with a wife and kids at home. "Following" European footy in the 80s and 90s for me often meant going to the bookstore to read month old results in Kicker magazine. The internet helped, but it was still very hard to watch many games until about 10 years or so ago. The entire transfer window circus is also a very modern affair - a complete nonstory until approx 2000. 

Exactly. I lived in Chicago during the '92 Euros. I could not see a single game since they were only shown on the Mexican channel which was not in my cable package. And Denmark won.....

 

[El Floppo]

Depending on how old you are, there really weren't many good options for most of our lifetimes in this country. Sitting at a bar at 7:00 am is fun when you're in college, not so cool in your 40s with a wife and kids at home. "Following" European footy in the 80s and 90s for me often meant going to the bookstore to read month old results in Kicker magazine. The internet helped, but it was still very hard to watch many games until about 10 years or so ago. The entire transfer window circus is also a very modern affair - a complete nonstory until approx 2000. 

those of us that were fans/players from way back... there was nothing. I played 24/7/365 until grad-school- but the only games I ever got to see were the games I played in (outside of the random trip to europe or local barnstorming event). 

on tv, we had soccer made in germany, shrinking a week-old or more game into 60 minutes on pbs. at some point in the 90s I found a local outlet for RAI (italian tv) that would show a game a week. 

the proliferation of cable sports networks has completely changed our ability to watch all sport, especially soccer.

 

[Ned]

I am not a huge soccer fan...not in the least bit. But watching a top notch soccer match is a pleasure compared to the labor of pain of trying to sit through an NFL broadcast today. Watching full games is incredibly bad now.

It is down right painful. If Red-Zone were not around....seriously...I would be done with the NFL. Totally done. I would just watch my Dolphins game (which has been a painful exercise going on 20 years now) and spend my time doing other things. The NFL as a league IMO has really lost it's way. Yet more people watch football now. They have done a remarkable job marketing the game while the quality of the game itself and the broadcasts have fallen down a black hole of TV timeouts, excessive rule changes where they spend 20 minutes discussing if that last play was a catch.

It's ridiculous.

But ahhhhhh Red-Zone. What an awesome channel. I love it. It reminds me why I used to love NFL football. No commercials, all action. It is amazing. If they ever change that format...I will give the NFL the finger. I still think there have been far too many rule changes that favor the offense and have also mucked up what the game is supposed to be. You know....played in real time and not in HD slo-mo. The excessive amount of replays has destroyed the game....not helped it like so many advocates of replay continue to insist. It's a #### show. Referees have zero confidence they can even get a call right with there own eyes anymore. And the NFL has too. They review every turnover and TD.....what a ####### mess and disruption of the natural emotion and spontaneity that sports is supposed to have.

The old replay system was fine. Each coach get's 2 challenges per half. If your wrong....you lose a timeout for that half and the ability to challenge again that half. No challenges in the last 2 minutes (let the refs call the game for better or for worse and live with the calls like most of us do on any other ball field). Done. No constant disruptions to the flow of the games, and the sheer amount of BS with all the game stoppages.

Damn I miss those days. the 80's and 90's was amazing in the NFL. Such a great time, great players, great rivalries, games flowed far better. Just better.

The fact that they saw the need to create the Red Zone channel speaks volumes to what the game has become.  

 

[Godsbrother]

But soccer is quickly catching on and at this pace will pass baseball and basketball in American popularity within a decade or two.

I have been hearing this for over 40 years, no BS, and it still hasn't happened.   I suppose eventually it might happen but it isn't close right now.

 

[Godsbrother]

The fact that they saw the need to create the Red Zone channel speaks volumes to what the game has become.  

A redzone for soccer would be 59 minutes of empty air time per hour.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

What a stunning Olympic semi-final. 0 goals in 120 minutes so lets just do penalty kicks!

 

[Wrigley]

What a stunning Olympic semi-final. 0 goals in 120 minutes so lets just do penalty kicks!

But the action