Wife uses sex as a weapon (1 Viewer)

[Bogart]

It's like having sex for the first time again and again.

Now I'm really confused.

He's got it right. Not the romantic teenage love in the back of your Ford Escort on prom night, but the awkward "I wonder if she'll let me do..." type that I'm happy to be past. In some ways those moments were exciting as you never knew how far you could push it and every little bit was great. It became more anticipation of being frustrated. Instead of "awesome, she let me touch her boobie", it's "I'm sure she's going to reject my fingering her #####", but you try and get denied anyway. Or not even that, you just ask "hey, can we have sex" knowing she'll deny it. Either way, it's not pleasant.

Doesn't this concept sort of contradict with the whole idea of "getting strange?" I thought there was a consensus from most folks (other than Pick and a few others) that having sex with your spouse was less exciting than having sex with someone else due to the familiarity.

As I haven't had sex with anyone other than my wife since my junior year in college (14 years ago), I'm speculating here, but I think there's a big difference between getting with a new ##### and being awkward with the same #####. I'm also guessing the approach with strange is much different than going after your wife who you haven't had sex with in a few months. Less exciting, less confidence (also guessing, but if strange rejects, no biggie. Wife rejects, and it's hand-time or cold shower).

When I say first time again and again, FUBAR has it right. We aren't learning anything about each other, or if we are, we just choose to forget. There is no "he likes this", "she likes this" let's make each other happy. If I try and do anything other than missionary, it gets rejected. If I try and extend it out, I get the "hurry up". And again, the times are so far apart, I kind of want it to last, while she is just checking it off her list.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

When I say first time again and again, FUBAR has it right. We aren't learning anything about each other, or if we are, we just choose to forget. There is no "he likes this", "she likes this" let's make each other happy. If I try and do anything other than missionary, it gets rejected. If I try and extend it out, I get the "hurry up". And again, the times are so far apart, I kind of want it to last, while she is just checking it off her list.

I get it now. I would have probably phrased it differently, like "all the bad stuff about having sex with someone for the first time with none of the good stuff."

 

[Zegras11]

You have to make the first move. Female sexuality is responsive to male sexuality. She can't will herself to be sexually interested in you, but you can will yourself to do the things needed to make her more interested in you.

Immediate steps.

(1) If you lack in fitness, start working out.

(2) Have a serious sit down talk with her that you have lost the plot as a couple and need to change things.

(3) Apologize for the mistake of tending to the house/work aspect of things instead of her during the crisis eight years ago. Yes I know you were well intentioned and apologizing isn't "fair", but at this point you just want to get unstuck. This is a ONE TIME apology. Never apologize for it again, always refer back to the apology.

(4) Start kissing her for at least ten seconds 2-3 times a day.

(5) Buy my book on Amazon

Brief summary of reading Athol's stuff (blog, book) plus other blogs with similar philosophies, after three weeks. I was prevoius very beta around her, though fairly balanced in all other things and more alpha in dealing with our children.1) I'm in shape, but wasn't working to a plan. Started to get passionate about exercising again, and doing it with other people, dropped pounds, started lifting weights, feeling really good about myself

2) Started acting more alpha, responding to her s-tests in a manner I wasn't before, passing them more

3) Told my wife directly, when the opportunities arose, that she needed improve her habits that were lazy or detrimental to our family or me.

4) Made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that something had changed inside me (which it has) that makes me feel full of energy, in a much better mood, and full of confidence. In addition to working out with a passion and doing more activites with friends or alone, I've purchased a few new clothes including new underwear which is something I rarely do (spend money on myself for these types of things).

5) Have been much more directly sexual, not appologizing for my advances on her, and umm... taking care of myself right there if advances were denied. Asked for other favors (non intercourse) from her that were granted (noted in Athol's book as alternative to sex).

6) Implemented 10-second kiss every day, or some semblence thereof. I told her a peck is what I give my grandmother. She giggles nearly every time, but complies.

Besides the ineveitable beta-backsliding on occasion, I feel I'm making progress in this and my wife and I are communicating better. It's taking patience, as it is truly 2 steps forward, 1 back as we are both adjusting to the new dynamic and changes I've made. Other noted results:

1) She asked if I was cheating (basicallys, she's now a little jealous of me, but the question was a s-test, which I passed by giving sarcastic answers instead of answering directly)

2) After advances were denied over this past weekend, the next morning we had a long heart-to-heart about our intimacy and some issues that she had about self-image that I didn't realize were such a big deal.

3) Piggy-back on the previous, but I told her honestly that the exuses she was using/used over the last 10-years (tired, stressed from work, etc.) were just that and she needed to figure out her issues. She said something like "I guess I can't just slide anymore with you in these matters, can I?"

4) She said I found my mojo again, and was hoping to find hers.

5) I also said that I realize that I can only improve myself and have no impact on her or her perceptions. She seemed a little taken aback by this statement, not sure why, maybe a jealousy thing.

Honestly, Athol's stuff works but it takes some balls to implement it and be more alpha. Our marriage isn't perfect, but it's getting better and our communication in this key area is improving and both my wife and I appear committed to improving. Talking honestly on this issue (in the light of day) is something that rarely, if ever, has happened.

Good luck to others out there. Obviously, the nuclear option (Divorce) is the last resort, but in some cases that's the only option left for your own happiness. As these changes galvanize within me, I believe that any of the three options would be acceptable for personal happiness, but for me 1 or 3 are morally right: [1] - Work on issues, both parties improve, both parties happy with results [2] cheat or [3] Divorce.

Well done.Just about the same for me.

I've had the book for four weeks. I'm now starting to read it a second time.

I've gone from hitting about .130 to .290.

All the new alpha stuff has her head spinning

On the part I bolded, it does take some balls, and I basically told her the same thing.

I told her after I fix my issues, "1" and "3" are perfectly fine options also.

 

[culdeus]

It's like having sex for the first time again and again.

Now I'm really confused.

He's got it right. Not the romantic teenage love in the back of your Ford Escort on prom night, but the awkward "I wonder if she'll let me do..." type that I'm happy to be past. In some ways those moments were exciting as you never knew how far you could push it and every little bit was great. It became more anticipation of being frustrated. Instead of "awesome, she let me touch her boobie", it's "I'm sure she's going to reject my fingering her #####", but you try and get denied anyway. Or not even that, you just ask "hey, can we have sex" knowing she'll deny it. Either way, it's not pleasant.

Doesn't this concept sort of contradict with the whole idea of "getting strange?" I thought there was a consensus from most folks (other than Pick and a few others) that having sex with your spouse was less exciting than having sex with someone else due to the familiarity.

As I haven't had sex with anyone other than my wife since my junior year in college (14 years ago), I'm speculating here, but I think there's a big difference between getting with a new ##### and being awkward with the same #####. I'm also guessing the approach with strange is much different than going after your wife who you haven't had sex with in a few months. Less exciting, less confidence (also guessing, but if strange rejects, no biggie. Wife rejects, and it's hand-time or cold shower).

When I say first time again and again, FUBAR has it right. We aren't learning anything about each other, or if we are, we just choose to forget. There is no "he likes this", "she likes this" let's make each other happy. If I try and do anything other than missionary, it gets rejected. If I try and extend it out, I get the "hurry up". And again, the times are so far apart, I kind of want it to last, while she is just checking it off her list.

I keep going back to the red flag that she left husband 1 for similar reasons.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

It sounds like Mrs. Bogart has checked out on the marriage..not just the sex. I want to be wrong (mostly for the kids sake).

I mean..does she understand the gravity of the situation? Have you told her in no uncertain terms that you are prepared to get a divorce if it comes to that? My impression is you have told her all of this and still no reaction from her.

I dont know why I feel so vested in this one. Things are going pretty well in my marriage at the moment..i dont know. Regardless Bogart, I respect your honest approach and wish you the best.

 

[Bogart]

I keep going back to the red flag that she left husband 1 for similar reasons.

I really need these answers and soon. What was the trauma early in her life and how similar was her situation with her ex to what we have here?

It sounds like Mrs. Bogart has checked out on the marriage..not just the sex. I want to be wrong (mostly for the kids sake).I mean..does she understand the gravity of the situation? Have you told her in no uncertain terms that you are prepared to get a divorce if it comes to that? My impression is you have told her all of this and still no reaction from her.I dont know why I feel so vested in this one. Things are going pretty well in my marriage at the moment..i dont know. Regardless Bogart, I respect your honest approach and wish you the best.

Being this honest has been extremely helpful with me laying everything out and coming to grips with the situation and wanting better. This thread has become my goto reading all throughout the day (along with Athol's blog) I appreciate your vested interest.

 

[commisholio]

Bogart and Datonn, you may benefit by checking out this book, particularly the parts on boundaries and not making silent contracts.

 

[Clifford]

He asked me what was the one thing that I was most unhappy about. Fastball right down the middle. I said it was the intimacy. Gave the details: nothing for 8 months, 3-4 times a year for six years. Wife responds that her health just hasn't made her want it. Fine, she wants to go that way, I will let her have it this day, but we both know that there is more. The counselor starts out by saying that intimacy is very important, even in the Bible it's important, but then goes off on this tangent that our society puts emphasis on certain parts of marriage (read: sex) that don't always have to have that emphasis. He talked about that if we were "best friends" (He hears "friendly roommates" and that we don't argue or fight and hears "best friends") that we can fix anything.

The basic problem is she isn't sexually attracted to you. We know this because she isn't having sex with you. The health issue she states is probably just a rationalization to justify not having sex with you.The counselor has the situation ###-backwards in that he's trying to diminish the importance of the sex in the relationship, when it is in fact the major problem in the relationship. You aren't getting laid, so you're pissed off / hurt / horny. She doesn't want to have sex with you, so she's resentful / confused / depressed.

I'm sorry to hear the session went like that. Really no-win if this counselor validates a no-sex friendship marriage. It's shocking to me actually. Could be he needed time to get to know your situation, and he always begins there. If that approach persisted another session, I'd openly say I'm looking for a normal marital relationship, and this therapy direction is not going to help.

I have been playing the session over and over in my mind this weekend, and completely understand if he needs to make both side comfortable early on. But if this is the path he is going to take, then I am done with him.Went really Beta, kind of on accident, this weekend and played it out, just to see if got any kind of reaction. Let the wife sleep in both Saturday and Sunday, did the grocery shopping on Saturday morning, spent 6 hours on Saturday getting her mom set up with Internet and teaching her the basics of being on the Internet. This included driving out to the provider to pick up the modem and router and a trip to Best Buy for cables. Sunday spent the whole day with the kids so that my wife could sew and play in her craft room. Didn't get a sound from her. In fact the only emotion I got this weekend was I cleaned the fridge out and left a ton of dishes in the sink before I went to help her Mom. She complained about doing them when I got home.

I'm not perfect, but I have to agree with datonn when I feel like I do more than my fair share and she shouldn't be turning off the relations because she is stressed out about doing everything. 11 days until session two and I think it may be a 50/50 chance that we make it to that session without me telling her that I want out before then.

K, so that didn't work. Next weekend try this. Tell, do not ask, your wife around 4:00 pm that you are going out with some guy friends (even if you don't have any) and go to a strip club and get wasted. Call your wife from the strip club around 2 AM, again, kneewalking drunk, and demand a ride. When she refuses, say "Oh, your shifts over? Sure I'd love a ride."Don't go home. Find somewhere to crash and walk in around 11:30 carrying a bloody mary. Say you're exhausted, go straight to the bedroom, and sleep until around 5:00. At that point, without showering or anything, flop on the couch taking up the whole thing, and if she asks you to move grumble something at her and get back in bed, or leave the house.

I hope you get the picture. Showing her you will do whatever is expected of you regardless of how you are treated is not going to make her attracted to you. Honestly, probably nothing will, but you have GOT to go Lester Burnham on this woman. Stop doing what's expected of you and START doing whatever the hell you want. Make yourself happy AT ALL COSTS. If it doesn't make her attracted to you it will make someone else, and I advise you to court and hump that woman as publicly as possible.

At some point during the next day throw a packet of bacon at her and just say "crispy"

 

[Sconch]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

 

[Zow]

This thread is so painful.

 

[Chaka]

This thread is my life.

 

[Zow]

This thread is my life.

I seriously wouldn't be able to handle it. I'd have to get divorced.

 

[urbanhack]

This thread is my life.

I seriously wouldn't be able to handle it. I'd have to get divorced.

//placeholder//

 

[Zegras11]

This thread is my life.

I seriously wouldn't be able to handle it. I'd have to get divorced.

Buying Ipods is the first step in handling it.

 

[newteech]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

 

[Sconch]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

 

[BigJim®]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

 

[FUBAR]

He asked me what was the one thing that I was most unhappy about. Fastball right down the middle. I said it was the intimacy. Gave the details: nothing for 8 months, 3-4 times a year for six years. Wife responds that her health just hasn't made her want it. Fine, she wants to go that way, I will let her have it this day, but we both know that there is more. The counselor starts out by saying that intimacy is very important, even in the Bible it's important, but then goes off on this tangent that our society puts emphasis on certain parts of marriage (read: sex) that don't always have to have that emphasis. He talked about that if we were "best friends" (He hears "friendly roommates" and that we don't argue or fight and hears "best friends") that we can fix anything.

The basic problem is she isn't sexually attracted to you. We know this because she isn't having sex with you. The health issue she states is probably just a rationalization to justify not having sex with you. The counselor has the situation ###-backwards in that he's trying to diminish the importance of the sex in the relationship, when it is in fact the major problem in the relationship. You aren't getting laid, so you're pissed off / hurt / horny. She doesn't want to have sex with you, so she's resentful / confused / depressed.

I'm sorry to hear the session went like that. Really no-win if this counselor validates a no-sex friendship marriage. It's shocking to me actually. Could be he needed time to get to know your situation, and he always begins there. If that approach persisted another session, I'd openly say I'm looking for a normal marital relationship, and this therapy direction is not going to help.

I have been playing the session over and over in my mind this weekend, and completely understand if he needs to make both side comfortable early on. But if this is the path he is going to take, then I am done with him. Went really Beta, kind of on accident, this weekend and played it out, just to see if got any kind of reaction. Let the wife sleep in both Saturday and Sunday, did the grocery shopping on Saturday morning, spent 6 hours on Saturday getting her mom set up with Internet and teaching her the basics of being on the Internet. This included driving out to the provider to pick up the modem and router and a trip to Best Buy for cables. Sunday spent the whole day with the kids so that my wife could sew and play in her craft room. Didn't get a sound from her. In fact the only emotion I got this weekend was I cleaned the fridge out and left a ton of dishes in the sink before I went to help her Mom. She complained about doing them when I got home. I'm not perfect, but I have to agree with datonn when I feel like I do more than my fair share and she shouldn't be turning off the relations because she is stressed out about doing everything. 11 days until session two and I think it may be a 50/50 chance that we make it to that session without me telling her that I want out before then.

K, so that didn't work. Next weekend try this. Tell, do not ask, your wife around 4:00 pm that you are going out with some guy friends (even if you don't have any) and go to a strip club and get wasted. Call your wife from the strip club around 2 AM, again, kneewalking drunk, and demand a ride. When she refuses, say "Oh, your shifts over? Sure I'd love a ride." Don't go home. Find somewhere to crash and walk in around 11:30 carrying a bloody mary. Say you're exhausted, go straight to the bedroom, and sleep until around 5:00. At that point, without showering or anything, flop on the couch taking up the whole thing, and if she asks you to move grumble something at her and get back in bed, or leave the house. I hope you get the picture. Showing her you will do whatever is expected of you regardless of how you are treated is not going to make her attracted to you. Honestly, probably nothing will, but you have GOT to go Lester Burnham on this woman. Stop doing what's expected of you and START doing whatever the hell you want. Make yourself happy AT ALL COSTS. If it doesn't make her attracted to you it will make someone else, and I advise you to court and hump that woman as publicly as possible. At some point during the next day throw a packet of bacon at her and just say "crispy"

Or just go to court and divorce the #####. Either way sounds better than your current situation.

Your wife is content with things the way they are so she has no motivation to change. You're the unhappy one, who wants to change. So change. Try to think of it similar to the concept of BATNA (Best Alternative to Negotiated Agreement), she has the power right now so her best alternative is the status quo. What's yours? You need to get some leverage. I would have a hard time following Clifford's advice but he has a good point. Most likely she'll be pissed, but so what? Would she divorce you over this? Would that be bad?

 

[NewlyRetired]

When I say first time again and again, FUBAR has it right. We aren't learning anything about each other, or if we are, we just choose to forget. There is no "he likes this", "she likes this" let's make each other happy. If I try and do anything other than missionary, it gets rejected. If I try and extend it out, I get the "hurry up". And again, the times are so far apart, I kind of want it to last, while she is just checking it off her list.

I am programmed different than most guys. I don't know how you can keep going back to a dry well like this. It would turn me off to no end and continue to make me feel bad about myself. God bless pron

 

[Tiny Dancer]

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

I haven't read the Athol book or blog because, well, I don't really want to click on something with "sex" in the title from work and I'm too lazy to do it at home. Is it mostly about "how to get your wife to have sex with you" or is it broader than that?

 

[Idiot Boxer]

He asked me what was the one thing that I was most unhappy about. Fastball right down the middle. I said it was the intimacy. Gave the details: nothing for 8 months, 3-4 times a year for six years. Wife responds that her health just hasn't made her want it. Fine, she wants to go that way, I will let her have it this day, but we both know that there is more. The counselor starts out by saying that intimacy is very important, even in the Bible it's important, but then goes off on this tangent that our society puts emphasis on certain parts of marriage (read: sex) that don't always have to have that emphasis. He talked about that if we were "best friends" (He hears "friendly roommates" and that we don't argue or fight and hears "best friends") that we can fix anything.

The basic problem is she isn't sexually attracted to you. We know this because she isn't having sex with you. The health issue she states is probably just a rationalization to justify not having sex with you. The counselor has the situation ###-backwards in that he's trying to diminish the importance of the sex in the relationship, when it is in fact the major problem in the relationship. You aren't getting laid, so you're pissed off / hurt / horny. She doesn't want to have sex with you, so she's resentful / confused / depressed.

I'm sorry to hear the session went like that. Really no-win if this counselor validates a no-sex friendship marriage. It's shocking to me actually. Could be he needed time to get to know your situation, and he always begins there. If that approach persisted another session, I'd openly say I'm looking for a normal marital relationship, and this therapy direction is not going to help.

I have been playing the session over and over in my mind this weekend, and completely understand if he needs to make both side comfortable early on. But if this is the path he is going to take, then I am done with him. Went really Beta, kind of on accident, this weekend and played it out, just to see if got any kind of reaction. Let the wife sleep in both Saturday and Sunday, did the grocery shopping on Saturday morning, spent 6 hours on Saturday getting her mom set up with Internet and teaching her the basics of being on the Internet. This included driving out to the provider to pick up the modem and router and a trip to Best Buy for cables. Sunday spent the whole day with the kids so that my wife could sew and play in her craft room. Didn't get a sound from her. In fact the only emotion I got this weekend was I cleaned the fridge out and left a ton of dishes in the sink before I went to help her Mom. She complained about doing them when I got home. I'm not perfect, but I have to agree with datonn when I feel like I do more than my fair share and she shouldn't be turning off the relations because she is stressed out about doing everything. 11 days until session two and I think it may be a 50/50 chance that we make it to that session without me telling her that I want out before then.

K, so that didn't work. Next weekend try this. Tell, do not ask, your wife around 4:00 pm that you are going out with some guy friends (even if you don't have any) and go to a strip club and get wasted. Call your wife from the strip club around 2 AM, again, kneewalking drunk, and demand a ride. When she refuses, say "Oh, your shifts over? Sure I'd love a ride." Don't go home. Find somewhere to crash and walk in around 11:30 carrying a bloody mary. Say you're exhausted, go straight to the bedroom, and sleep until around 5:00. At that point, without showering or anything, flop on the couch taking up the whole thing, and if she asks you to move grumble something at her and get back in bed, or leave the house. I hope you get the picture. Showing her you will do whatever is expected of you regardless of how you are treated is not going to make her attracted to you. Honestly, probably nothing will, but you have GOT to go Lester Burnham on this woman. Stop doing what's expected of you and START doing whatever the hell you want. Make yourself happy AT ALL COSTS. If it doesn't make her attracted to you it will make someone else, and I advise you to court and hump that woman as publicly as possible. At some point during the next day throw a packet of bacon at her and just say "crispy"

Or just go to court and divorce the #####. Either way sounds better than your current situation. Your wife is content with things the way they are so she has no motivation to change. You're the unhappy one, who wants to change. So change. Try to think of it similar to the concept of BATNA (Best Alternative to Negotiated Agreement), she has the power right now so her best alternative is the status quo. What's yours? You need to get some leverage. I would have a hard time following Clifford's advice but he has a good point. Most likely she'll be pissed, but so what? Would she divorce you over this? Would that be bad?

What he's saying is since she's locked you out, you need to decertify your union.

 

[Thorn]

 

[Third]

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

I haven't read the Athol book or blog because, well, I don't really want to click on something with "sex" in the title from work and I'm too lazy to do it at home. Is it mostly about "how to get your wife to have sex with you" or is it broader than that?

The book is written around getting sex as the end-game, but it is broader than that. It's about what women are inherently attracted to, identifying where you are lacking, and being more confident and assertive in order to become more appealing. I thought it was really worthwhile. I would imagine every single married man in America could stand to put a little more Alpha (or less frequently, more Beta) into their personality in one way or another. I read the book last week and am continuing to work on putting it into practice. I'll be interested to see if there is a long-term change with my wife, but so far it is promising. I kid you not, I finished the book Tuesday night, started gaming a little on Wednesday/Thursday, and had the best sex I've had in 2-3 years on Thursday night, followed by another round on Friday. Maybe just coincidence...maybe not. Prior to that, we have been on a once a week (at the most) routine for the past few years.

 

[Nate]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

I don't care if he never gets laid. I've been reading his blog for 2 weeks and I'm 6 for 5, and I was out of town for 4 days.What have you got to lose?Yes, 6 for 5.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

I haven't read the Athol book or blog because, well, I don't really want to click on something with "sex" in the title from work and I'm too lazy to do it at home. Is it mostly about "how to get your wife to have sex with you" or is it broader than that?

The book is written around getting sex as the end-game, but it is broader than that. It's about what women are inherently attracted to, identifying where you are lacking, and being more confident and assertive in order to become more appealing. I thought it was really worthwhile. I would imagine every single married man in America could stand to put a little more Alpha (or less frequently, more Beta) into their personality in one way or another. I read the book last week and am continuing to work on putting it into practice. I'll be interested to see if there is a long-term change with my wife, but so far it is promising. I kid you not, I finished the book Tuesday night, started gaming a little on Wednesday/Thursday, and had the best sex I've had in 2-3 years on Thursday night, followed by another round on Friday. Maybe just coincidence...maybe not. Prior to that, we have been on a once a week (at the most) routine for the past few years.

Thanks, but I'm still not sure if the book would be helpful to me. Would reading the book help me to get my wife to do stuff around the house like laundry and cleaning up and cooking dinner?

 

[Nate]

Thanks, but I'm still not sure if the book would be helpful to me. Would reading the book help me to get my wife to do stuff around the house like laundry and cleaning up and cooking dinner?

I think you're in the wrong thread.

 

[Bogart]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

I don't care if he never gets laid. I've been reading his blog for 2 weeks and I'm 6 for 5, and I was out of town for 4 days.What have you got to lose?Yes, 6 for 5.

Congrats man!! That is awesome, amazing news.

 

[Clifford]

Bogart, have you seen American Beauty? If not you really, really need to. I'm not saying molest a teen, but all the other stuff is right on.

 

[Bogart]

Bogart, have you seen American Beauty? If not you really, really need to. I'm not saying molest a teen, but all the other stuff is right on.

I'm very familiar with Lester Burnham. Not sure that is how I want my life to turn out. But I get your meaning.Being happy feels selfish, and that is the first thing I have to fix.

 

[Lutherman2112]

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

I haven't read the Athol book or blog because, well, I don't really want to click on something with "sex" in the title from work and I'm too lazy to do it at home. Is it mostly about "how to get your wife to have sex with you" or is it broader than that?

Yes, it is broader than "how to get your wife to have sex with you." It's reflecting on your behaviors, identify what needs modified, making a plan of action, and then acting. This is a long term plan, and if it helps your marriage great. However, if the marriage ends up in divorce court, you are now in a better position to move forward with your life.Wife and I started counseling last June, eventually tapering off and ending the middle of October. Things were better, but we've slipped into old behaviors. I am not at the point of "I can't take it anymore," but I definitely want things better. Figured what the heck, and bought the book. Read it in three days. Wednesday after buying the book, I began to modify my behavior.For me, it's about striking a balance between alpha traits and beta traits. After reading the book, I realized that I was way more beta than alpha. Over the years some of my interests and behaviors that originally made me attractive to my wife began to wane. I haven't been camping/flyfishing in years, I lost interest in softball, stopped practicing my guitar regularly, and let my fitness club membership expire. I was letting things happen, rather than making things happen.Athol pointed out some behaviors I exhibited when I was chasing skirts. Being a little cocky, being playful in conversations, and making a woman believe I had other options. Best example for this is the scene from "Dazed and Confused" when Dawson is giving Mitch advice: "Gotta play it cool, you know. You can't let her know how much you like her cause if she knows, she'll dump you like that. Believe me. Like, if she asks you if you want a ride, you say, "No, I've got my own ride, but maybe I'll see you later."Here's another example. I didn't even intend for it to play out this way. Saturday night, my son and daughter had their band awards banquet. They are in different grades and schools, so that meant a divide and conquer plan. I went to our son's and the wife went to our daughter's banquet. Hers ended at 830, his ended at 800, but there was a dance until 1030. When the dance is about to start, he kindly asked me to leave, he had a ride. I checked out the ride, and texted my wife to let her know I was heading to BW3's for a couple of beers and the first two periods of the hockey game.Grab a seat at the bar and a nice tall Guinness. Halfway through the beer couples on either side of me leave, and in walks a ladies night out group of 4...my wife and I know each of them they are all married. But there was a group of my wife's co-workers there, and they didn't know these facts.All solid 7s, one approaches 8 in a swimsuit, but not that night. Two of them are Caps fans so we are kinda carrying on about the game. One coworker texts my wife that I am there with a group of women carrying on. I had already missed texts from the Mrs. regarding the kids spending the night with their friends, but I was now missing the phone calls from my wife. Seems she "wanted me to stop at the store" for something. I realize I missed all these texts/calls when I leave after the second period. So I call home.I learn the kids are staying with friends and the wife is heading down to meet me. "I'm sure your friends won't mind." She was jealous and then relieved when she found out who I was watching the game with. We both stay for awhile, then took a cab home and had a wonderful late night.The next morning, she admitted to being jealous. Especially after a very long talk we had earlier in the week. That's when I let he know I was looking to be more involved outside of the house (fishing, fitness, etc) because I was growing tired, waiting for her to join this marriage and pining for her attention. This is my second week back at the fitness center, and now my wife wants to renew her membership. I am taking my son and a friend of his camping the weekend after school is out. Kinda late for trout fishing, but we are also doing a 5 mile float fishing trip. Wife wanted to go..."Sorry honey, guys only," and told her "but maybe we can all go this fall."Restrung my 12 string, and my son has been picking at my other acoustic. We started picking away at the tabs for "Paperback Writer."Things are definitely better than four weeks ago, but this plan is for long term. I may eventually show my wife Athol's book, but for now it's under wraps.

 

[JFT Ben]

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

I haven't read the Athol book or blog because, well, I don't really want to click on something with "sex" in the title from work and I'm too lazy to do it at home. Is it mostly about "how to get your wife to have sex with you" or is it broader than that?

Yes, it is broader than "how to get your wife to have sex with you." It's reflecting on your behaviors, identify what needs modified, making a plan of action, and then acting. This is a long term plan, and if it helps your marriage great. However, if the marriage ends up in divorce court, you are now in a better position to move forward with your life.Wife and I started counseling last June, eventually tapering off and ending the middle of October. Things were better, but we've slipped into old behaviors. I am not at the point of "I can't take it anymore," but I definitely want things better. Figured what the heck, and bought the book. Read it in three days. Wednesday after buying the book, I began to modify my behavior.For me, it's about striking a balance between alpha traits and beta traits. After reading the book, I realized that I was way more beta than alpha. Over the years some of my interests and behaviors that originally made me attractive to my wife began to wane. I haven't been camping/flyfishing in years, I lost interest in softball, stopped practicing my guitar regularly, and let my fitness club membership expire. I was letting things happen, rather than making things happen.Athol pointed out some behaviors I exhibited when I was chasing skirts. Being a little cocky, being playful in conversations, and making a woman believe I had other options. Best example for this is the scene from "Dazed and Confused" when Dawson is giving Mitch advice: "Gotta play it cool, you know. You can't let her know how much you like her cause if she knows, she'll dump you like that. Believe me. Like, if she asks you if you want a ride, you say, "No, I've got my own ride, but maybe I'll see you later."Here's another example. I didn't even intend for it to play out this way. Saturday night, my son and daughter had their band awards banquet. They are in different grades and schools, so that meant a divide and conquer plan. I went to our son's and the wife went to our daughter's banquet. Hers ended at 830, his ended at 800, but there was a dance until 1030. When the dance is about to start, he kindly asked me to leave, he had a ride. I checked out the ride, and texted my wife to let her know I was heading to BW3's for a couple of beers and the first two periods of the hockey game.Grab a seat at the bar and a nice tall Guinness. Halfway through the beer couples on either side of me leave, and in walks a ladies night out group of 4...my wife and I know each of them they are all married. But there was a group of my wife's co-workers there, and they didn't know these facts.All solid 7s, one approaches 8 in a swimsuit, but not that night. Two of them are Caps fans so we are kinda carrying on about the game. One coworker texts my wife that I am there with a group of women carrying on. I had already missed texts from the Mrs. regarding the kids spending the night with their friends, but I was now missing the phone calls from my wife. Seems she "wanted me to stop at the store" for something. I realize I missed all these texts/calls when I leave after the second period. So I call home.I learn the kids are staying with friends and the wife is heading down to meet me. "I'm sure your friends won't mind." She was jealous and then relieved when she found out who I was watching the game with. We both stay for awhile, then took a cab home and had a wonderful late night.The next morning, she admitted to being jealous. Especially after a very long talk we had earlier in the week. That's when I let he know I was looking to be more involved outside of the house (fishing, fitness, etc) because I was growing tired, waiting for her to join this marriage and pining for her attention. This is my second week back at the fitness center, and now my wife wants to renew her membership. I am taking my son and a friend of his camping the weekend after school is out. Kinda late for trout fishing, but we are also doing a 5 mile float fishing trip. Wife wanted to go..."Sorry honey, guys only," and told her "but maybe we can all go this fall."Restrung my 12 string, and my son has been picking at my other acoustic. We started picking away at the tabs for "Paperback Writer."Things are definitely better than four weeks ago, but this plan is for long term. I may eventually show my wife Athol's book, but for now it's under wraps.

Great stuff here, feel the same way and am having similar experiences.

 

[FUBAR]

Congrats Luther.

I'll probably pick up the book later this week, but it seems to simply state "take control of your own life".

If I'm off base or missing the point, how else would you sum up the book in one sentence?

 

[Tiny Dancer]

I haven't read the Athol book or blog because, well, I don't really want to click on something with "sex" in the title from work and I'm too lazy to do it at home. Is it mostly about "how to get your wife to have sex with you" or is it broader than that?

Yes, it is broader than "how to get your wife to have sex with you." It's reflecting on your behaviors, identify what needs modified, making a plan of action, and then acting. This is a long term plan, and if it helps your marriage great. However, if the marriage ends up in divorce court, you are now in a better position to move forward with your life.Wife and I started counseling last June, eventually tapering off and ending the middle of October. Things were better, but we've slipped into old behaviors. I am not at the point of "I can't take it anymore," but I definitely want things better. Figured what the heck, and bought the book. Read it in three days. Wednesday after buying the book, I began to modify my behavior.For me, it's about striking a balance between alpha traits and beta traits. After reading the book, I realized that I was way more beta than alpha. Over the years some of my interests and behaviors that originally made me attractive to my wife began to wane. I haven't been camping/flyfishing in years, I lost interest in softball, stopped practicing my guitar regularly, and let my fitness club membership expire. I was letting things happen, rather than making things happen.Athol pointed out some behaviors I exhibited when I was chasing skirts. Being a little cocky, being playful in conversations, and making a woman believe I had other options. Best example for this is the scene from "Dazed and Confused" when Dawson is giving Mitch advice: "Gotta play it cool, you know. You can't let her know how much you like her cause if she knows, she'll dump you like that. Believe me. Like, if she asks you if you want a ride, you say, "No, I've got my own ride, but maybe I'll see you later."Here's another example. I didn't even intend for it to play out this way. Saturday night, my son and daughter had their band awards banquet. They are in different grades and schools, so that meant a divide and conquer plan. I went to our son's and the wife went to our daughter's banquet. Hers ended at 830, his ended at 800, but there was a dance until 1030. When the dance is about to start, he kindly asked me to leave, he had a ride. I checked out the ride, and texted my wife to let her know I was heading to BW3's for a couple of beers and the first two periods of the hockey game.Grab a seat at the bar and a nice tall Guinness. Halfway through the beer couples on either side of me leave, and in walks a ladies night out group of 4...my wife and I know each of them they are all married. But there was a group of my wife's co-workers there, and they didn't know these facts.All solid 7s, one approaches 8 in a swimsuit, but not that night. Two of them are Caps fans so we are kinda carrying on about the game. One coworker texts my wife that I am there with a group of women carrying on. I had already missed texts from the Mrs. regarding the kids spending the night with their friends, but I was now missing the phone calls from my wife. Seems she "wanted me to stop at the store" for something. I realize I missed all these texts/calls when I leave after the second period. So I call home.I learn the kids are staying with friends and the wife is heading down to meet me. "I'm sure your friends won't mind." She was jealous and then relieved when she found out who I was watching the game with. We both stay for awhile, then took a cab home and had a wonderful late night.The next morning, she admitted to being jealous. Especially after a very long talk we had earlier in the week. That's when I let he know I was looking to be more involved outside of the house (fishing, fitness, etc) because I was growing tired, waiting for her to join this marriage and pining for her attention. This is my second week back at the fitness center, and now my wife wants to renew her membership. I am taking my son and a friend of his camping the weekend after school is out. Kinda late for trout fishing, but we are also doing a 5 mile float fishing trip. Wife wanted to go..."Sorry honey, guys only," and told her "but maybe we can all go this fall."Restrung my 12 string, and my son has been picking at my other acoustic. We started picking away at the tabs for "Paperback Writer."Things are definitely better than four weeks ago, but this plan is for long term. I may eventually show my wife Athol's book, but for now it's under wraps.

Interesting. I would say that I'm way more "beta" than "alpha" in my marriage, and it probably negatively impacts my happiness. But getting my wife to sleep with me isn't an issue. And I don't want to get a divorce. So I wasn't sure if any of this stuff would be helpful to me.

 

[FUBAR]

Bogart, have you seen American Beauty? If not you really, really need to. I'm not saying molest a teen, but all the other stuff is right on.

I'm very familiar with Lester Burnham. Not sure that is how I want my life to turn out. But I get your meaning.Being happy feels selfish, and that is the first thing I have to fix.

by "that" I assume you mean your mentality? I'm not saying that my happiness is more important than my kids or my wife, but if I'm putting myself way down on the chain, nobody is going to be happy. Frankly, I'm against the notion of happiness being the goal anyway. Contentment, satisfaction, fulfillment, peace... those are my goals. My philosophy is to ask myself one simple question before doing anything of substance - "Will I be pleased that I did _____ after it's over?" Whether that's going to school, taking a job, working out, sitting on my ### and relaxing for a bit, spending time with my family, posting on FBGs... If I don't see myself being pleased that I did something, I most likely won't do it.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Congrats Luther. I'll probably pick up the book later this week, but it seems to simply state "take control of your own life". If I'm off base or missing the point, how else would you sum up the book in one sentence?

Part of it is take control of your life, but part of it is learning to be a leader she wants to follow. The writer likens the relationship to being Captain and First Mate. This isn't meant for a guy to be a dominating, overbearing jerk. Here's an example: We have a list of "to do's" an arm's length long. I knocked out clearing the flower beds, turning the garden and doing the exterior windows out of the way. That night, I suggested she go with me to when I rent a carpet cleaner so we can buy her flowers and plants for the garden. While were were gone, I had the kids vacuum and dust the house. She planted while I cleaned the downstairs carpets and showed the kids how to do theirs. They did and the hallway and our bedroom. Next day wife finished the inside of the windows.Spring cleaning and planting is done. All because I led by example, and stated "This is what I want done, would you join me."The book is really easy reading, and I would wager that for me and others, the immediate results are due to having a pretty good foundation in the relationship to start.

 

[FUBAR]

Congrats Luther. I'll probably pick up the book later this week, but it seems to simply state "take control of your own life". If I'm off base or missing the point, how else would you sum up the book in one sentence?

Part of it is take control of your life, but part of it is learning to be a leader she wants to follow. The writer likens the relationship to being Captain and First Mate. This isn't meant for a guy to be a dominating, overbearing jerk. Here's an example: We have a list of "to do's" an arm's length long. I knocked out clearing the flower beds, turning the garden and doing the exterior windows out of the way. That night, I suggested she go with me to when I rent a carpet cleaner so we can buy her flowers and plants for the garden. While were were gone, I had the kids vacuum and dust the house. She planted while I cleaned the downstairs carpets and showed the kids how to do theirs. They did and the hallway and our bedroom. Next day wife finished the inside of the windows.Spring cleaning and planting is done. All because I led by example, and stated "This is what I want done, would you join me."The book is really easy reading, and I would wager that for me and others, the immediate results are due to having a pretty good foundation in the relationship to start.

Agreed on the last comment. Seems like the book will help guide, but this is pretty simple stuff for many of us.

 

[Sconch]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

You guys keep throwing around this "alpha" and "beta" thing like it's some sort of fact.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Cliff Notes?

This is what I got:

Wife and Bogart have sex 4-5 times per year.

Wife left last husband (only married twice?) due to last husband wanting to have more sex.

Wife will only perform in missionary and if Bogart does anything unusual wife tells him to just hurry up and get it over with.

I don't think there is anything fixable here, I think divorce is the only answer (unless she is ok with Bogart sleeping around).

I assume this is a classic bait-n-switch? How often was the sex prior to marriage, how fast was the regression to 4-5 times per year.

Sorry buddy, just calling it how I see it. It does suck for the kids, but that's life, its not your fault, its your wife's fault.

 

[Lutherman2112]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

You guys keep throwing around this "alpha" and "beta" thing like it's some sort of fact.

Athol's aplha and beta are profiles of behavior the author uses as an example of what some women like in men and why.My wife was first attracted to my alpha traits: confident enough to play live music, worked hard for decent money, I was interested in sports/camping/hiking/biking/fishing, fitness in general.We got married, and had kids. Athol's theory suggests my alpha traits became less attractive to her, as she needed me to be more domestic and help rear kids; beta. Those alpha behaviors waned, beta kicked in. I am now balancing it out.The writer designed a method for me to reflect upon what I need to improve to move on with my life. I am starting this change, and so far, early returns suggests my wife likes the changes. This is still a long term plan.The book is full of suggestions, and for $10 and a little effort, it's been worth it. I recommend it. I don't care if you read it or not.

 

[Lehigh98]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

You guys keep throwing around this "alpha" and "beta" thing like it's some sort of fact.

Alpha, Beta, etc...

 

[Sconch]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

You guys keep throwing around this "alpha" and "beta" thing like it's some sort of fact.

Athol's aplha and beta are profiles of behavior the author uses as an example of what some women like in men and why.My wife was first attracted to my alpha traits: confident enough to play live music, worked hard for decent money, I was interested in sports/camping/hiking/biking/fishing, fitness in general.We got married, and had kids. Athol's theory suggests my alpha traits became less attractive to her, as she needed me to be more domestic and help rear kids; beta. Those alpha behaviors waned, beta kicked in. I am now balancing it out.The writer designed a method for me to reflect upon what I need to improve to move on with my life. I am starting this change, and so far, early returns suggests my wife likes the changes. This is still a long term plan.The book is full of suggestions, and for $10 and a little effort, it's been worth it. I recommend it. I don't care if you read it or not.

Groovy

 

[The_Man]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

You guys keep throwing around this "alpha" and "beta" thing like it's some sort of fact.

Athol's aplha and beta are profiles of behavior the author uses as an example of what some women like in men and why.My wife was first attracted to my alpha traits: confident enough to play live music, worked hard for decent money, I was interested in sports/camping/hiking/biking/fishing, fitness in general.

We got married, and had kids. Athol's theory suggests my alpha traits became less attractive to her, as she needed me to be more domestic and help rear kids; beta. Those alpha behaviors waned, beta kicked in. I am now balancing it out.

The writer designed a method for me to reflect upon what I need to improve to move on with my life. I am starting this change, and so far, early returns suggests my wife likes the changes. This is still a long term plan.

The book is full of suggestions, and for $10 and a little effort, it's been worth it. I recommend it. I don't care if you read it or not.

that was very alpha of you

 

[tommyboy]

i bought athols book and downloaded it on my wifes laptop. She saw the confirmation email. I'm running an errand and my cell rings, its my wife. She says "whats this thing you bought something about married man sex?" and i say "yeah, saw that on one of my websites i go to, thought it was interesting so i bought it" She says, "are you cheating on me"? I say "honey, its the married man sex book, not the unmarried man sex book" and she's like "oh". I can see the wheels spinning in her brain. I've only read 1/4 of it so far, its pretty insightful so far. It will be interesting to see how my wife reacts over the next several weeks. We have a very good marriage, I guess i'm lucky in that regard. But one of the things that stands out to me about the message of the book is we have to be men, and somewhere over the course of 20 years and 4 kids i think you set aside "male" things you used to enjoy and that's not necessarily a good thing.

 

[5Rings]

He asked me what was the one thing that I was most unhappy about. Fastball right down the middle. I said it was the intimacy. Gave the details: nothing for 8 months, 3-4 times a year for six years. Wife responds that her health just hasn't made her want it. Fine, she wants to go that way, I will let her have it this day, but we both know that there is more. The counselor starts out by saying that intimacy is very important, even in the Bible it's important, but then goes off on this tangent that our society puts emphasis on certain parts of marriage (read: sex) that don't always have to have that emphasis. He talked about that if we were "best friends" (He hears "friendly roommates" and that we don't argue or fight and hears "best friends") that we can fix anything.

The basic problem is she isn't sexually attracted to you. We know this because she isn't having sex with you. The health issue she states is probably just a rationalization to justify not having sex with you.The counselor has the situation ###-backwards in that he's trying to diminish the importance of the sex in the relationship, when it is in fact the major problem in the relationship. You aren't getting laid, so you're pissed off / hurt / horny. She doesn't want to have sex with you, so she's resentful / confused / depressed.

I'm sorry to hear the session went like that. Really no-win if this counselor validates a no-sex friendship marriage. It's shocking to me actually. Could be he needed time to get to know your situation, and he always begins there. If that approach persisted another session, I'd openly say I'm looking for a normal marital relationship, and this therapy direction is not going to help.

I have been playing the session over and over in my mind this weekend, and completely understand if he needs to make both side comfortable early on. But if this is the path he is going to take, then I am done with him.Went really Beta, kind of on accident, this weekend and played it out, just to see if got any kind of reaction. Let the wife sleep in both Saturday and Sunday, did the grocery shopping on Saturday morning, spent 6 hours on Saturday getting her mom set up with Internet and teaching her the basics of being on the Internet. This included driving out to the provider to pick up the modem and router and a trip to Best Buy for cables. Sunday spent the whole day with the kids so that my wife could sew and play in her craft room. Didn't get a sound from her. In fact the only emotion I got this weekend was I cleaned the fridge out and left a ton of dishes in the sink before I went to help her Mom. She complained about doing them when I got home.

I'm not perfect, but I have to agree with datonn when I feel like I do more than my fair share and she shouldn't be turning off the relations because she is stressed out about doing everything. 11 days until session two and I think it may be a 50/50 chance that we make it to that session without me telling her that I want out before then.

K, so that didn't work. Next weekend try this. Tell, do not ask, your wife around 4:00 pm that you are going out with some guy friends (even if you don't have any) and go to a strip club and get wasted. Call your wife from the strip club around 2 AM, again, kneewalking drunk, and demand a ride. When she refuses, say "Oh, your shifts over? Sure I'd love a ride."Don't go home. Find somewhere to crash and walk in around 11:30 carrying a bloody mary. Say you're exhausted, go straight to the bedroom, and sleep until around 5:00. At that point, without showering or anything, flop on the couch taking up the whole thing, and if she asks you to move grumble something at her and get back in bed, or leave the house.

I hope you get the picture. Showing her you will do whatever is expected of you regardless of how you are treated is not going to make her attracted to you. Honestly, probably nothing will, but you have GOT to go Lester Burnham on this woman. Stop doing what's expected of you and START doing whatever the hell you want. Make yourself happy AT ALL COSTS. If it doesn't make her attracted to you it will make someone else, and I advise you to court and hump that woman as publicly as possible.

At some point during the next day throw a packet of bacon at her and just say "crispy"

Great posting.I have no advice. Glll to Bogart and datonn.

 

[JFT Ben]

Alpha, Beta, etc...

Going a little off-topic here, but charting more territory on the how's and why wives/girlfriends perceive men who they've "trained" or who don't act like a leader/alpha. Getting into gender studies a bit, to throw another term into the mix, it's about hypergamy, here's a link and another oneBasically, hypergamy is the desire of women for a partner of higher social status than her and the alleged inability of most women to feel attraction to a mate she perceives as lower or equal in social status. Basically, if she bosses you around and you don't stand up for yourself, don't lead, bow to her wishes to please her, you are lower in social status and hence aren't attractive, or as attractive to her. If a more socially alpha male comes into her circle, she will be attractive to him. The book Sperm Wars describes some of this on the pyschological/biological side of gender roles, as does the book and blog mentioned.

A few experpts on hypergamy:

"It is sometimes said that men are polygamous and women monogamous...It would be more accurate to say that the female sexual instinct is hypergamous. Men may have a tendency to seek sexual variety, but women have simple tastes in the manner of Oscar Wilde: They are always satisfied with the best."

and

"When it comes to "long term game" or dealing with it in a relationship, your mate will always subconsciously be judging your hypergamous position with regards to her in your relationship.

Think of it as a scale, with hypergamy on one end and beta-spinelessness on the other.

As long as your scale is tipping towards the hypergamy side, she's happy, she's in love, and your relationship is "working." Even if you occasionally backslide into some Beta behavior, as long as the majority of your relationship dynamic is tilted towards your status as a leader that she can respect and follow, you will not experience serious relationship discord.

But should you tip towards the Beta side far too much, it's a virtual certainty that she's going to "fall out of love" or start becoming dissatisfied with every facet of her life. Believe me, when you are running afoul of her basic hypergamous instinct, it will poison everything else in your relationship. "

 

[Thorn]

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out if this Alpha-Beta-Alhol thing is serious or not.

The guy has had sex with his wife 5000 times.I don't know how you can get any more serious than that.

According to him.

According to him and his wife. Not sure what doesn't come off serious about it. Seems logical to me that a guy who shows a little assertiveness is more likely to be appealing to his wife, while the subservient guy will be thought less of. It's human nature, natural selection, whatever. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of beta males who have long and happy marriages, and are content in that role. It's only when you find that rare bird born to prey on beta males, you're probably SOL regardless. I doubt showing alpha traits improves much of anything. Probably safe to guess Athol didn't marry a woman who is like that.

You guys keep throwing around this "alpha" and "beta" thing like it's some sort of fact.

Athol's aplha and beta are profiles of behavior the author uses as an example of what some women like in men and why.My wife was first attracted to my alpha traits: confident enough to play live music, worked hard for decent money, I was interested in sports/camping/hiking/biking/fishing, fitness in general.We got married, and had kids. Athol's theory suggests my alpha traits became less attractive to her, as she needed me to be more domestic and help rear kids; beta. Those alpha behaviors waned, beta kicked in. I am now balancing it out.The writer designed a method for me to reflect upon what I need to improve to move on with my life. I am starting this change, and so far, early returns suggests my wife likes the changes. This is still a long term plan.The book is full of suggestions, and for $10 and a little effort, it's been worth it. I recommend it. I don't care if you read it or not.

Groovy

Sorry to hear you are not having sex with your wife.

 

[culdeus]

Cliff Notes?

This is what I got:

Wife and Bogart have sex 4-5 times per year.

Wife left last husband (only married twice?) due to last husband wanting to have more sex.

Wife will only perform in missionary and if Bogart does anything unusual wife tells him to just hurry up and get it over with.

I don't think there is anything fixable here, I think divorce is the only answer (unless she is ok with Bogart sleeping around).

I assume this is a classic bait-n-switch? How often was the sex prior to marriage, how fast was the regression to 4-5 times per year.

Sorry buddy, just calling it how I see it. It does suck for the kids, but that's life, its not your fault, its your wife's fault.

I think Disco Stu laid out a perfect blueprint on how to execute on this a few years back. You two need to get together for an evening.

For sure start hiding money.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Alpha, Beta, etc...

Going a little off-topic here, but charting more territory on the how's and why wives/girlfriends perceive men who they've "trained" or who don't act like a leader/alpha. Getting into gender studies a bit, to throw another term into the mix, it's about hypergamy, here's a link and another oneBasically, hypergamy is the desire of women for a partner of higher social status than her and the alleged inability of most women to feel attraction to a mate she perceives as lower or equal in social status. Basically, if she bosses you around and you don't stand up for yourself, don't lead, bow to her wishes to please her, you are lower in social status and hence aren't attractive, or as attractive to her. If a more socially alpha male comes into her circle, she will be attractive to him. The book Sperm Wars describes some of this on the pyschological/biological side of gender roles, as does the book and blog mentioned.

A few experpts on hypergamy:

"It is sometimes said that men are polygamous and women monogamous...It would be more accurate to say that the female sexual instinct is hypergamous. Men may have a tendency to seek sexual variety, but women have simple tastes in the manner of Oscar Wilde: They are always satisfied with the best."

and

"When it comes to "long term game" or dealing with it in a relationship, your mate will always subconsciously be judging your hypergamous position with regards to her in your relationship.

Think of it as a scale, with hypergamy on one end and beta-spinelessness on the other.

As long as your scale is tipping towards the hypergamy side, she's happy, she's in love, and your relationship is "working." Even if you occasionally backslide into some Beta behavior, as long as the majority of your relationship dynamic is tilted towards your status as a leader that she can respect and follow, you will not experience serious relationship discord.

But should you tip towards the Beta side far too much, it's a virtual certainty that she's going to "fall out of love" or start becoming dissatisfied with every facet of her life. Believe me, when you are running afoul of her basic hypergamous instinct, it will poison everything else in your relationship. "

Athol goes into great detail of hypergamy in Chapter 2: Alpha and Beta Balance. He talks about how the alph/beta traits have changed over time, and how, according to him, an alpha gets beta-ized.

 

[Third]

at Sconch in this thread.

 

[Zegras11]

Thanks, but I'm still not sure if the book would be helpful to me. Would reading the book help me to get my wife to do stuff around the house like laundry and cleaning up and cooking dinner?

I think you're in the wrong thread.

Give the book to her to read. Seriously.