WILL (NOT SHOULD) HOU WR Andre Johnson Be Suspended? (1 Viewer)

[Jason Wood]

I honestly can't fathom his not being suspended. He was beating down an opponent without his helmet on, how does that not massively supersede all the crackdown we've been seeing on helmet to helmet and the like? At least those actions are in the context of the game. This was purely driven out of anger and the intent to harm.

The last part is certainly up for debate. You see an angry guy who intends to harm Finnegan; Houston fans see a guy who is merely defending himself after being assaulted. Others see it as something between those two extremes.

They're not mutually exclusive. They both should be suspended. But let's be honest, throwing punches while a guy is on the ground is hardly "defending yourself" no matter what Houston Texans fans "saw."

 

[Hairy Snowman]

But then these are issues for a court to decide. I believe there is a case here (especially if Finnegan was injured).

EDIT: I am reading that the sequence of acts may have been different. It may be that it was self defense, but it is still a chargeable offense (even if there was a self defense argument on behalf of the batterer).

There is no chance that a court of law would find either man guilty of battery in this incident. No chance.

Because none of the elements are satisfied? All of the elements are. I disagree. People are found guilty of battery (in some instances) for simply touching someone they know doesn't want to be touched.

In a football context, or other contact sport? Show me an example of someone being criminally charged due to a fight in hockey, football, rugby, whatever. Even in the Romanowski/Marcus Williams case (which is a much stronger case), there were no criminal charges, and the civil jury found that Romanowski did not engage in conduct with malice or oppression, and did not intentionally inflict emotional distress.

In any context. There is always only a limited consent when people play contact sports - you consent to the contact that is part of the game or sport. Just because I consent to be tackled does not mean I consent to being punched in the face. Or killed. And there have been plenty of hockey players that have been charged and convicted of crimes on the ice. Here is a quick list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in_i...ting_in_charges

Incidents in hockey resulting in criminal charges:

1905 - Allan Loney is charged with manslaughter in the on-ice clubbing death of Alcide Laurin. Loney claimed self-defence, and was found not guilty.[4]

1907 - Ottawa Senators players Harry Smith, Alf Smith and Charles Spittal were charged with assault after beating Montreal Wanderers players, Hod Stuart, Ernie "Moose" Johnson and Cecil Blatchford with their sticks.

1907 - Ottawa Victorias player Charles Masson is charged with manslaughter after Cornwall player Owen McCourt dies of a head wound sustained in a brawl. Masson is found not guilty on the grounds that there was no way to know which blow had killed McCourt.[5]

1922 - Sprague Cleghorn injured three Ottawa Senators players in a brawl, leading Ottawa police to offer to arrest him.

1969 - In a pre-season game held in Ottawa, Ted Green of the Boston Bruins and Wayne Maki of the St.Louis Blues engaged in a violent, stick-swinging brawl. A fractured skull and brain damage caused Green to miss the entire 1969–1970 NHL season.[6] The NHL suspended Maki for 30 days and Green for 13 games. Both men were acquitted in court.

1975 - Dan Maloney of the Detroit Red Wings was charged with assault causing bodily harm after he attacked Brian Glennie of the Toronto Maple Leafs from behind. In exchange for a no-contest plea, Maloney did community service work and was banned from playing in Toronto for two seasons.

1975 - Police charged Bruins player Dave Forbes with aggravated assault after a fight with Henry Boucha of the Minnesota North Stars. After a nine-day trial ended with a hung jury, charges against Forbes were dropped.

1976 - Philadelphia Flyers players Joe Watson, Mel Bridgman, Don Saleski and Bob "Hound" Kelly were charged with assault after using their hockey sticks as weapons in a violent playoff game between the Flyers and the Toronto Maple Leafs in which fans had been taunting the Flyers players and spitting at them. Bridgman was acquitted, but the other three Flyers were found guilty of simple assault.

1976 - Calgary Cowboys forward Rick Jodzio plead guilty to a charge of assault following a cross-check to the head of Quebec Nordiques player Marc Tardif during the World Hockey Association playoffs. The hit led to a 20-minute bench clearing brawl.[7]

1977 - Dave "Tiger" Williams of the Toronto Maple Leafs hit Pittsburgh Penguin Dennis Owchar with his stick. He was charged with assault, but acquitted.

1982 - Jimmy Mann of the Winnipeg Jets left the bench and sucker-punched Pittsburgh Penguin Paul Gardner, breaking Gardner's jaw in two places. Mann was fined $500 and given a suspended sentence in Winnipeg.

1988 - Dino Ciccarelli hit Leafs defenceman Luke Richardson with his stick. Charged and convicted of assault, he was sentenced to one day in jail and fined $1,000.

1998 - Jesse Boulerice of the Plymouth Whalers was suspended for the rest of the playoffs after violently swinging his stick at Guelph Storm forward Andrew Lang. Boulerice was charged with assault as a result of the incident.

2000 - Marty McSorley of the Boston Bruins hit Vancouver Canuck Donald Brashear in the head with his stick in the waning moments of the game, after losing a fight to Brashear earlier in the game. McSorley was convicted of assault with a weapon and given an 18-month conditional discharge.

2004 - After repeated failed attempts at instigating a fight, Todd Bertuzzi of the Vancouver Canucks sucker-punched Steve Moore of the Colorado Avalanche in the back of the head, knocking Moore unconscious. The pair then fell to the ice with Bertuzzi's weight crushing Moore face-first into the ice, followed by several players from both teams further piling onto the mêlée. Moore sustained three fractured vertebrae, a grade three concussion, vertebral ligament damage, stretching of the brachial plexus nerves, and facial lacerations. Bertuzzi was charged by police, and given a conditional discharge after pleading guilty to assault causing bodily harm. His suspension resulted in a loss of $500,000 in pay and the Canucks were fined $250,000. Bertuzzi was re-instated in 2005; Moore has not played since and made several unsuccessful attempts at civil litigation.

Also, you don't need malice or oppression or an intent to inflict emotional distress. Neither Malice or Oppression (whatever that is) are an element to battery and IIED is a different tort altogether.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Hairy Snowman =

 

[Kevrunner]

No matter what, you can't permit NFL players to rip helmets off and then throw punches, it has to be dealt with in a serious manner, not just a fine. The game officials are in a very vulnerable position because they are usually the 1st ones to step in and try to break up the fight. If one of Andre's punches landed on an officials jaw, it might have been Rudy T. all over again. There has to be a suspension of some kind for both players in my humble opinion. But, I feel sorry for AJ, he is a class act who just was push to his limits.

 

[JD8p]

Put me down for a fine with no suspension.

 

[daveR]

As far as the commish is concerned, he is the caretaker of the NFL "product" and this incident (which made even my local sports newscast) is bad for product marketing. I would bet the farm that Johnson is suspended.

Best answer so far! There will be suspensions to protect the Commish's future position. The only way I see it not happening is if there is already a system in place for dealing with on-the-field fights. This decision is probably "precedence setting" and therefore must include flexibility for future events.

 

[CalBear]

Also, you don't need malice or oppression or an intent to inflict emotional distress. Neither Malice or Oppression (whatever that is) are an element to battery and IIED is a different tort altogether.

Note that in most of the cases you cite, the charges were dropped or the players were acquitted. In the exceptions, the circumstances were much different than in this case (for example, leaving the bench to join a fight, or attacking someone from behind or with a weapon).

 

[Todem]

The only thing Andre Johnson has going for him is his (as far as I know) squeaky clean rep thus far. It is certainly reasonable that what he did yesterday was a one-off situation where he was goaded by Finnegan and lost his cool, and Finnegan clapping in his face after they were separated lends credence to that angle.

That said, he's a professional athlete and is therefore not afforded the luxury of "losing his cool". The fight was pretty vicious and if he doesn't get some sort of suspension for this, what message does that send for the next time two guys decide to square off?

I love AJ as a player and from what I hear from his charity work he sounds like a great guy off the field as well, but I don't see how you don't suspend him here for a minimum one game without pay.

Very

He is a class guy...but he lost his cool. And he should be suspended. You just can't do that if your a professional. You have thousands upon thousands of kids watching you play.

You can flame me all you want about they are not role models....but the reality is kids copy these guys in their pee-wee games, junior high and high school games as well.

Not something you want to have to deal with if your kid plays football or any sport. There is no place for this on the field. It does happen and scuffles are part of the game....and should be met with a suspension. The team suffers when the individual takes it upon themselves to act in the wrong manner.

If you want to meet him after the game off the field and give it go....go right ahead. But in the camera eye you must act accordingly and always know what is at stake and understand that although it is a game your at work and you can't get into a brawl with your fists at work unless of course you box of fight for a living.

Andre knows he was wrong...and I know he would accept a one game suspension like a man and not appeal it at all.

I think a 1 game without pay plus a 50K fine is the right punishment and will be handed down.

I would be shocked if he is not suspended.

 

[Mello]

As far as the commish is concerned, he is the caretaker of the NFL "product" and this incident (which made even my local sports newscast) is bad for product marketing. I would bet the farm that Johnson is suspended.

Yes, football fans despise violence. So bad for the product.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Also, you don't need malice or oppression or an intent to inflict emotional distress. Neither Malice or Oppression (whatever that is) are an element to battery and IIED is a different tort altogether.

Note that in most of the cases you cite, the charges were dropped or the players were acquitted. In the exceptions, the circumstances were much different than in this case (for example, leaving the bench to join a fight, or attacking someone from behind or with a weapon).

I agree that most were aquitted. Convictions have been a recent trend. And I agree that the punishments were either non-existent (plea deals) or slaps on the wrists (a day in jail and a fine). But that wasn't what I argued. I argued that there was a chargeable offense that could be slapped on AJ. I still think that there is. Damages/punishment is a while different story.Also, the charged crimes listed often included lesser offenses (i.e. Assault with a weapon would include the lesser charge of assault (if it turned out there was no weapon). So even though there are different facts, the basic idea is still the same: Consenting to contact in a contact sport is not the same as consenting to having a crime committed against you. The facts are for the jury to weigh.

 

[Todem]

As far as the commish is concerned, he is the caretaker of the NFL "product" and this incident (which made even my local sports newscast) is bad for product marketing. I would bet the farm that Johnson is suspended.

Yes, football fans despise violence. So bad for the product.

What those 2 had on display was not football. Come on man.

 

[Sigfawn]

He should and will be suspended. You can get away with a single punch, shove, slap. You can't throw combos at a guy without a helmet.

I love hockey, I love hockey fights. But there's no place for it in the NFL. A 1 game suspension of the leagues best WR would nip that in the bud quickly.

AJ needs to do what Ward does. On a run play, catch by another WR or interception, find the guy and blindside his ### into next week. You can pay a guy back without getting yourself kicked out of the game.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think Finnegan should get a 2 game suspension. He punches AJ in the helmet a couple times, his helmet pops off from AJ but it was not intentional. Then that nut case rips and I mean maliciously rips of AJ's helmet who has had enough and starts wailing on Finnegan like Ike Turner who looks punch drunk after they are sparated and proud of his work.

AJ- 1 game

Finnegan-2 games or the rest of the season, whichever.

 

[Mello]

As far as the commish is concerned, he is the caretaker of the NFL "product" and this incident (which made even my local sports newscast) is bad for product marketing. I would bet the farm that Johnson is suspended.

Yes, football fans despise violence. So bad for the product.

What those 2 had on display was not football. Come on man.

In relation to product image, I have never talked to a person that stopped watching the game or buying related things because of a fight on the field. On the contrary, I usually hear people cheering on the fights and talking about them later or read multi page threads about the fights. There are valid reasons for a suspension. I don't think protecting the brand is one of them.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

I think Finnegan should get a 2 game suspension. He punches AJ in the helmet a couple times, his helmet pops off from AJ but it was not intentional. Then that nut case rips and I mean maliciously rips of AJ's helmet who has had enough and starts wailing on Finnegan like Ike Turner who looks punch drunk after they are sparated and proud of his work. AJ- 1 gameFinnegan-2 games or the rest of the season, whichever.

I could see this - or maybe 1 each. NFL still wants to make the money off these two.

 

[Lobary]

Those of us who voted no were correct.

Fox 26 in Houston is reporting that AJ will NOT be suspended.

Link

 

[bmetz]

I think Finnegan should get a 2 game suspension. He punches AJ in the helmet a couple times, his helmet pops off from AJ but it was not intentional. Then that nut case rips and I mean maliciously rips of AJ's helmet who has had enough and starts wailing on Finnegan like Ike Turner who looks punch drunk after they are sparated and proud of his work.

AJ- 1 game

Finnegan-2 games or the rest of the season, whichever.

 

[Jason Wood]

Those of us who voted no were correct. Fox 26 in Houston is reporting that AJ will NOT be suspended.

Unmitigated hypocrisy. If I were defensive players getting those fines for helmet-to-helmet I would be losing my mind right now.

 

[Statorama]

Those of us who voted no were correct. Fox 26 in Houston is reporting that AJ will NOT be suspended.

Unmitigated hypocrisy. If I were defensive players getting those fines for helmet-to-helmet I would be losing my mind right now.

Just chalk it up to boys will be boys.

 

[TheChairman]

Those of us who voted no were correct.

Fox 26 in Houston is reporting that AJ will NOT be suspended.

Link

I'll believe it when I hear it from the tyrannical overlord himself.

 

[cobalt_27]

Those of us who voted no were correct. Fox 26 in Houston is reporting that AJ will NOT be suspended.

Unmitigated hypocrisy. If I were defensive players getting those fines for helmet-to-helmet I would be losing my mind right now.

Why? Because the NFL recognized that he wasn't the one who instigated that b.s.If anything, Finnegan should be fined + suspended. AJ? Slap a fine on him, but don't suspend him. He had every reason to lose his mind. I think the NFL will see it that way.

 

[CrazyHorse1581]

http://nfl-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssport...475988/26141675

Posted by Andy Benoit

Mark Berman of FOX 26 Sports reports that Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson will be fined but not suspended for the punches he threw at Titans cornerback Cortland Finnegan Sunday.

Berman does not say how large the fine will be or whether Finnegan will garner the same punishment. The NFL might view Finnegan as the instigator given that he reportedly warned the Texans bench of his actions seconds beforehand. The good news for the Texans is that they will have their most explosive offensive weapon on the field at Philadelphia Thursday night.

For more NFL news, rumors and analysis, follow @cbssportsnfl on Twitter and subscribe to our RSS Feed .

 

[TheChairman]

WHAT THE ---K???? Are you watching the play drunk? You have got to be kidding me. The entire football world saw what Finnegan did to him as soon as the ball was snapped.

Here is a pic that shows how the fight started. Yeah, it was Andre Johnson who started it...smh.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

i'm not a fan of either team, and from what i saw last night on tv was that finnegan had taken a few shots up under AJs facemask the previous few plays. at the start of this play, he tells the texans sideline to "watch this" then at the start of the play comes up under the facemask almost b4 AJ is looking. its pretty obvious that finnegan couldnt cover Aj so was trying to remove him from the game another way. also from the newscasts from last night, they said finnegan was already on the commish's watch list for previous cheap shots earlier in the season.

so taking all that into account, i'd say that finnegan gets a game suspension and both get fines for fighting.

 

[Lobary]

Those of us who voted no were correct.

Fox 26 in Houston is reporting that AJ will NOT be suspended.

Link

I'll believe it when I hear it from the tyrannical overlord himself.

I hear ya, but in the interests of the shark pool you should know that Mark Berman is big in the Houston sports media. He is not one to report something that hasn't been reliably sourced.

 

[TheChairman]

Those of us who voted no were correct.

Fox 26 in Houston is reporting that AJ will NOT be suspended.

Link

I'll believe it when I hear it from the tyrannical overlord himself.

I hear ya, but in the interests of the shark pool you should know that Mark Berman is big in the Houston sports media. He is not one to report something that hasn't been reliably sourced.

That could just be team disciplinary action and not league.

 

[boneman18]

I think Johnson faces a heavy fine, but what he did to Finnegan was self-defense. Didn't anyone notice Cortland jamming him at the line? There is a reason hands to the face is a penalty. Cortland was jamming AJ's facemask into his face. Anyone who disagrees needs to put on a helmet and experiment, then you'll understand why it is illegal. What other act could push a decent human to respond like that?

The zebras should have dealt with Finnegan's tactics sooner, it would have saved him & the league any embarrasment.

Alert: Most Americans don't mind viloence, we export viloence by the ton, especially through our entertainment, which is what football is.

This particular brawl is actually quite vanilla because nobody got hurt.

I want to see Nolan Ryan & Andre next.

If anyone is so offended, then you should watch golf, or ice-skating on ABC.

 

[TheChairman]

I think Johnson faces a heavy fine, but what he did to Finnegan was self-defense. Didn't anyone notice Cortland jamming him at the line? There is a reason hands to the face is a penalty. Cortland was jamming AJ's facemask into his face. Anyone who disagrees needs to put on a helmet and experiment, then you'll understand why it is illegal. What other act could push a decent human to respond like that?

Self-defence, for an illegal hands to the face penalty? Could a horsecollar tackle victim bite someone's nose off as retaliation and it be ok? I mean that's 15 yards.

 

[Corky]

No.

 

[Mello]

I think Johnson faces a heavy fine, but what he did to Finnegan was self-defense. Didn't anyone notice Cortland jamming him at the line? There is a reason hands to the face is a penalty. Cortland was jamming AJ's facemask into his face. Anyone who disagrees needs to put on a helmet and experiment, then you'll understand why it is illegal. What other act could push a decent human to respond like that?

Self-defence, for an illegal hands to the face penalty? Could a horsecollar tackle victim bite someone's nose off as retaliation and it be ok? I mean that's 15 yards.

No. Now if a player had been the victim of many horsecollars from the same opponent that all went unpunished by the officials, that opponent had told the sideline to "Watch this!" before the last horsecollar, and had been mouthing off when things like "I'm gonna break your leg next time boy", then the player turned around and punched him a few times, he would get ejected and heavily fined but maybe not suspended depending on his past disciplinary history.

 

[RudeDog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDJZw_EIIag...feature=related

After reviewing the play, AJ started it completely. Start at 1:46. AJ removed Finnegans helmet first. tHEN Finnegan grabbed AJs helmet and threw it, but while he did AJ started punching him.

Positively battery. There was no intent to play any game there. AJ went right after removing Finnegans helmet and then started punching him in the face. Look for yourself. AJ knew what he was doing before he got the helmet off.

Enough with the battery crap... this is the most ridiculous statement in this thread and you have pushed it about 10 times so far. Just stop

 

[Touchdown There]

No.

A response so simple, it could only come from Corky.

 

[boneman18]

I think Johnson faces a heavy fine, but what he did to Finnegan was self-defense. Didn't anyone notice Cortland jamming him at the line? There is a reason hands to the face is a penalty. Cortland was jamming AJ's facemask into his face. Anyone who disagrees needs to put on a helmet and experiment, then you'll understand why it is illegal. What other act could push a decent human to respond like that?

Self-defence, for an illegal hands to the face penalty? Could a horsecollar tackle victim bite someone's nose off as retaliation and it be ok? I mean that's 15 yards.

No, for puching his facemask into his head. Did Tennesse sign Hanibel Lecter or Mike Tyson? If so the league ought to look into making cannibalism illegal.

 

[TheChairman]

I think Johnson faces a heavy fine, but what he did to Finnegan was self-defense. Didn't anyone notice Cortland jamming him at the line? There is a reason hands to the face is a penalty. Cortland was jamming AJ's facemask into his face. Anyone who disagrees needs to put on a helmet and experiment, then you'll understand why it is illegal. What other act could push a decent human to respond like that?

Self-defence, for an illegal hands to the face penalty? Could a horsecollar tackle victim bite someone's nose off as retaliation and it be ok? I mean that's 15 yards.

No, for puching his facemask into his head. Did Tennesse sign Hanibel Lecter or Mike Tyson? If so the league ought to look into making cannibalism illegal.

Might wanna look into AJs 'run blocking' on the previous play.AJ repeatedly jabbed CF's facemask, twisting it halfway around his head, then gave him a nice shove in the back as CF walked away fixing his gear. Apparently CF would have been ok to kick AJ in the nads, sweep his leg and break his ankle in self defense.

 

[TheChairman]

Well I'll be! Many keys uncle.

Sets a terrible precedent. At the end of a game you can beat the tar out of someone and just pay a fine.