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Right, and the funny thing is is that people now view Arizona as a favorable situation. A "pass-happy" team. I don't remember Arizona being so "pass-happy" before Warner got there. This laughable organization is on the verge of 2 straight NFCC games. I LOVE Fitzgerald and Boldin is awesome, but the reason this team is where it is now is Warner.
And that's coming from a Saints fan.
And something you cannot ignore is, Warner makes all of the other players around him better. People like to point to the obscene talent he has had around him, but if you look at the studs he had in both St. Louis and Arizona, pretty much all of them played the best football of their careers when they were playing with Kurt Warner.
If I wanted to post huge passing numbers I'd rather have a defense that was a turnstyle and keep the opponent in the game. Warner would not have had the day he had yesterday if Rodgers hadn't been lighting it up too.Flacco's performance from yesterday is a good example. Give him a shoddy defense yesterday and he definately posts better numbers.
Agree 100%
When the defense was playing well, the Cardinals led 31-10, and Warner had already thrown 3 touchdown passes. And nothing indicates that the Packers would have been able to stop them from continuing to score, had the Cardinals defense kept playing well. Okay, maybe he throws for a few less yards and maybe one less score, but he still would have had an outstanding day, to the eyes and on the stat sheet.
IMO, one game should not make or break a player for the HOF. I've been on board with Warner as a legit HOFer after his 2nd year in ARI.
I wasn't bashing you. I was just pointing out that a Saints fan is saying the the Cardinals are on the verge of a 2nd straight NFCC game. That would require them to beat the Saints.
Ahhh. Well, meaning they are 1 game away. And a very winnable game at that. Let's say as a Saints fan, I'm not confident at all we won't be one and done. Warner is just phenomenal in the playoffs. To be honest, as good as Green Bay has been as a team and as well as they matchup against the Saints, if NO is able to win this game by stopping Warner enough to outscore them, it would be an absolutely incredible accomplishment.I wasn't bashing you. I was just pointing out that a Saints fan is saying the the Cardinals are on the verge of a 2nd straight NFCC game. That would require them to beat the Saints.
Excellent post. He has the stats, the story, the clutch post-season performances. Not to mention he has 4 (and counting?) playoff wins for a team that won one in the past half-century. He's a lock.
You don't? I think it's easy to see that for some players, the tipping point for whether they get in or out is one game.And when you factor Super Bowls, I think it's probably very common that one game makes a difference for a good number of guys.J
Can you give us an example, Joe, of a player who, if he had a different performance in one pivotal game, would not be in the Hall? I don't mean to doubt your assertion, but I'm having trouble figuring out who you're talking about. Lynn Swann is about the only guy I can think of, and IMO, despite the fact that I am a rabid Steeler fan and I love Swann, he does not belong in the HOF.
Riggins, maybe? He only made 1 Pro Bowl and was rarely the best RB on his own team. If not for his performance in Super Bowl XVII then he'd probably go down in history as a poor man's Jerome Bettis.Elway and Fouts are two other guys whose reputations are greatly influenced by 1 or 2 games, although I think both would have made the Hall without those games.
I find myself agreeing with TG here. If Riggins doesn't run over Don McNeil on his way to beating the Miami Dolphins and capping an impressive post season where he ran for more yds in one pst season at the time than anyone(strike shortened season too) he likely would never have been voted into the HoF. I only knew him as a Redskin not a Jet.
I have the same sentiments as gianmarco, so you can make that two Saints fans.Warner is a clear-cut HOF selection, IMO. He has it all, the MVPs and the Super Bowl championships and appearances. Has any QB that has started in 3 Super Bowls(and played well) NOT made the HOF that is eligible?
I thought he was HOF-worthy before last year, but when he won the NFCCG last year with the Cardinals he became a lock for the HOF. Then, almost winning the Super Bowl with the Cardinals?
Every eligible quarterback who started in 3+ Super Bowls is in the HOF:StaubachBradshawGrieseTarkentonMontanaElwayKellyAikmanSteve Young played in 2 Super Bowls and was active for a 3rd, but did not play. Earl Morrall played on 4 Super Bowl teams, but only appeared in 2 Super Bowls (he's not in the HOF).There may be other QBs in the pre-Super Bowl era who led their teams to 3 championship games but never made the HOF.
edit: Don Heinrich and Charlie Conerly were part of a QBBC that led the NY Giants to the NFL championship games in 1956, 1958, and 1959, and neither of them are in the HOF. Tommy Thompson led the Eagles to 3 straight championship appearances in 1947-49 and he's not in the HOF either.
Just because it was a strike-shortened regular season doesn't mean he played less playoff games. In fact, he played more than any other 1 or 2 seed in other years. Despite going 8-1 and having the best record in the NFC, they had to play in the "Wild Card" round like every other playoff team that year.
And I believe he ran for >100 yards in every one of those playoff games, including many second half clock-killing drives where they ran the "Riggo Drill", with him going up the middle on 4, 5, 6, 7 plays in a row, often dragging players for 6+ yards at a time. You just couldn't tackle him high.
Isaac Bruce had a 119-1781-13 season with Chris Miller and Mark Rypien splitting time at QB. Torry Holt had a 117-1696-12 season with Marc Bulger.Anquan Boldin had a 101-1377-8 season with Jeff Blake and Josh McCown at QB.Larry Fitzgerald had 69-946-6 in basically three quarters of a season when he was hurt with Warner as mostly a backup.
1998 Rams 4-12, 24th in points, 27th in yards.99 Rams (with Warner), 13-3, 1st, 1st, NFL Champs2000 Rams, 10-6, 1st, 1st2001 Rams, 14-2, 1st, 1st, SB trip2006 Cards (primarily without Warner) 5-11, 19th, 18th2007 Cards (with Warner) 8-8, 7th, 12th2008 Cards 9-7, 3rd, 4th, SB trip2009 Cards 10-6, 11th, 14th, Division champs and WC playoff winSo tell me more again about how Isaac Bruce did with Chris Miller. It's fascinating.
Alright, well you guys punch up whatever nerdy stats you want. He's going to Hall, almost definitely on the first-ballot.
I never said Warner wasn't a HOFer, but to suggest that what his receivers produced with Warner is somehow unique to him being the QB is not accurate IMO. Yes, he was a key cog in turning the Rams around but there were others coaches and players that also had a huge role in that.In terms of Arizona, the Cardinals are better than they were but they are not leaps and bounds better like the Rams were (regular season record wise) and they also have played much better defense (which IMO is equally important to their turnaround). The Cardinals allowed 100 fewer points this year than last . . . was Warner the catalyst in that too?
I don't want anything. I've been saying that Warner should be in the HOF for years, but I'm not particularly invested in it.
I think if the one game you're talking about is the SB, then yes it can be that tipping point. However, the game you're referring to wasn't a Superbowl, rather a playoff game.Personally, I think most people are "what have you done for me lately" types way too much. I wish people would take the time and look at the whole body of work of the particular player they're talking about rather than just posting when Player A has a fantastic game or Player B has a horrible game. Like the most recent game all of a sudden proves the point trying to be made more than all of the other games that that player had.Anyway, I think Kurt Warner is a Hall of Famer. He's won a SB, he's been in another and played well. The guy plays well in the playoffs and that is the sign of a great quarterback. I think he's a pretty cool guy, he seems to have his head in the right place in life, I hope he gets in.
This.
Some people have suggested to me that he wears his spirituality too much on his sleeve and this turns people off.Once you bring in the stats, their resistance starts to fade.
Warner's been in three Superbowls. Two with Rams, one with Cardinals. Definite HOFer.
Btw, what time do the Skins play next week? 
Btw, what time do the Skins play next week? 
