kevjones22
Footballguy
agreed
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Will Warner make the HOF? (2 Viewers)
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
If he wasn't a lock before, he certainly is now. Tearing apart a top 3 defense in the NFC title game to lead a previously pathetic franchise to the Super Bowl? Unbelievable.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Going to three Super Bowls with two different teams, with at least one win AND an MVP = HOF IMHO.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Craig Morton
rexnervous
Footballguy
After this season, and today, he's a lock. Maybe not first-ballot, but he'll be there.
Tau837
Footballguy
Earl Morrall
Tau837
Footballguy
Norm Van Brocklin won NFL championships with both the Rams and Eagles before the Super Bowl era.
Morrall wasn't the starter for any of the Dolphins three straight Super Bowls appearances. Morton was the only other. I checked his Wiki page and somebody already updated it with Warner being the 2nd QB to do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Morton
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Morrall started the majority of the Dolphins games in '72 and was the guy for half of the playoffs. Considering he threw the only TD pass for Miami in the AFCCG, I'd say he qualifies as "leading" Miami to the Super Bowl.
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Tau837
Footballguy
The question as asked was if any other QB had "taken" two different teams to the Super Bowl. Morrall was the starter for the Dolphins' playoff games prior to the 1972 Super Bowl, so he "took" the Dolphins to that Super Bowl. Perhaps that is splitting hairs.
And, as already posted, Van Brocklin took two teams to the NFL championship game, prior to the Super Bowl era. Granted, there were fewer teams and fewer rounds of playoff games back then, so it is harder to get there now.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Before this season, I thought Warner should make the HOF. After this year, I think he will make the HOF.
Tau837
Footballguy
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HellToupee
Footballguy
yes
joefootball
Footballguy
Yes he better make it he deserves it.
MarshallRob
Footballguy
Morrall got yanked from the AFCCG with his team trailing 10-7.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Pretty much how I feel but I would just add that if leads the Cards to a win in the SB then I think all doubt is gone- he would be an absolute lock for the HOF.
trader jake
Footballguy
He should ask Ocho Cinco for the blazer. 
Warner is anow.
Leinart must be a first ballot guy then.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Let's have some perspective here...I know taking the Rams and Cardinals to the SB is going to weigh pretty heavy, but Warner hasn't even cleared 30,000 yards passing. Brett Favre has 65,000 and he is a shoe in 1st ballot. Warner 1st ballot? No way!!!
1999-2001: Pretty Awesome
2002: 0-6 as a starter in St Louis
2003: Injured
2004: New York Giants...1 year, only 9 games, Eli was being pushed ahead of him.
2005-2007: Arizona 8-18 as a starter
2008: Big year, SB trip.
He really has 4 good years...does 4 years mean HoF for a QB?
28,000 career passing yds and 182 TD passes(Marino has 420 for comparison)...he does have a 65% completion and a 93 passer rating which is pretty strong...I still think he is marginal. If he can play till he is 40 and pass some milestones like maybe 35,000-40,000 passing yds...maybe 240-250 TDs...the guy isn't done yet, but if he plays in the SB and they lose badly, not sure that will help him all that much.
Sorry to be a wetrag for all the optimism in this thread.
1999-2001: Pretty Awesome
2002: 0-6 as a starter in St Louis
2003: Injured
2004: New York Giants...1 year, only 9 games, Eli was being pushed ahead of him.
2005-2007: Arizona 8-18 as a starter
2008: Big year, SB trip.
He really has 4 good years...does 4 years mean HoF for a QB?
28,000 career passing yds and 182 TD passes(Marino has 420 for comparison)...he does have a 65% completion and a 93 passer rating which is pretty strong...I still think he is marginal. If he can play till he is 40 and pass some milestones like maybe 35,000-40,000 passing yds...maybe 240-250 TDs...the guy isn't done yet, but if he plays in the SB and they lose badly, not sure that will help him all that much.
Sorry to be a wetrag for all the optimism in this thread.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Well, when your 4 really good years turn into 3 trips to the SB, 2 league MVP awards, and a SB MVP award, then yes that gets you HOF consideration.As I cited earlier, Warner ranks #1 all time in passing yards per game even though he came in as a backup in something like 10 games or else he'd have an even higher average. Ranks 4th all time in passer rating, 5th all time YPA, and 2nd all time in completion %.As for simply looking at his career numbers, who really cares? Drew Bledsoe has him by 17,000 yards, so we should induct Bledsoe? Warner has more passing yards than Brady and people are counting Brady as a HOF lock.And I doubt any other QB has the back story as Warner, so certainly he has the fame part on top of it.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Brady went to 4 SB, won 3 in 4 years IIRC, has a very high wins vs loss record as a starter in the NFL...Brady beats the pants off Warner as far as accomplishments and wins. Not saying Warner doesn't merit strong consideration. I love his story, he passes the character issues with flying colors much like Tony Dungy who I am extremely high on, he is a very likable guy, just not sure he is a HOF QB yet...seems more like Plunkett to me and he isn't in the HoF either.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I cannot remember if it was in this thread or another, but I already demonstrated how ridiculous the Plunkett to Warner comparison is, so knock that #### off, will ya?Edit: Okay, it was from the McNabb HoF thread. Here it is:Jim Plunkett threw 164 TDs in 144 career starts. Kurt Warner has thrown 182 TDs in 85 career starts.Plunkett threw 34 more career INTs than TDs. Warner has thrown 68 more career TDs than INTs.Plunkett threw 20 or more TDs in a season once. Warner has done so five times, and has thrown 30 or more three times.Plunkett never made a Pro Bowl (not that making a Pro Bowl is that important, but never having even made one is significant), was never an All-Pro and has zero MVP awards. Warner has been an All-Pro twice, and has three MVP awards (two regular season and one Super Bowl).
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David Yudkin
Footballguy
If you are seriously trying to compare total career numbers or find guys that went to more than one SB then you are not going to come close to finding a Warner clone.You are missing the fact that what Warner has done what other QBs have done in a LOT fewer games (career numbers wise), but not many QBs have done what Warner has done in the SB and hardware department (3 SBs, 2 league MVPS, 1 SB MVP).Whether Warner goes on and plays 3 more years and gets 10,000 more passing yards and even 50 more TD shouldn't change what he's already accomplished.
exactly the points I would make on this topic - Warner has all the creds necessary for a first ballot HOF'er
Jayrod
Footballguy
OK, so I looked it up and it wasn't exactly the gist of this article, but within it was this section:
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
He made a couple of good points. Prior to the playoffs, I would have said Warner would not make the HOF based on where he stood today. But these last 3 weeks have meant alot, and quite frankly should. Whether or not that pushes him over the edge, I still don't know. However:1. I think King is right when he talks about that significant lull in Warner's career. In terms of his candidacy, it really is an eyesore.2. On a per game basis, Warner is as prolific as they come. But career longevity (combined with productivity) seems to weigh alot in King's mind. I think King gets a HOF vote. If there are 44 voters, I think 80% is required to get in. That means 9 no's and no admittance.3. Of all the careers in the history of the NFL, Warner's may be the most puzzling and unique with regard to HOF standards. There's never been anyone like him, or close to it.I think in the end, Warner will get in. But I think he's going to have to wait awhile. That's also going to be very unique because QB's generally get in immediately, or not at all. In short, when you watch a HOF QB...you know you're watching a HOF QB. Al the QB's inducted in the last 20 years, have made it on the first ballot. Warner will be different in that sense too.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
The other factor is that Warner as of today is not retired. He's 38 and given his performance this year shows no signs of being ineffective (like Favre). So his career numbers will only go up if he keeps playing.I'm going to write Peter King later today. We'll see if he responds or uses anything I bring up.TheDirtyWord said:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Outside of the fact that both won a SB as a QB, I can't think of a single thing that reminds me of Jim Plunkett when I look at Kurt Warner.Ministry of Pain said:
identikit
Footballguy
IIRC, Plunkett didn't put up many (if any) monster seasons like Warner has quite a few times.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
OK, but from 2002-2007 he was pretty much a crapfest at QB in terms of wins and losses. Are we putting him in the FF HoF? I'll vote for that immediately, but the HoF in Canton?T Davis ran for an extraordinary amount of yards and TDs in 4 years including 2 SB rings...why is he not in the HoF already? Maybe he will get in but everyone seems to argue that he didn't do it long enough. Wehre would Warner fall along that line of thinking.David Yudkin said:
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Davis played in 78 games. Warner has played in 110 and counting.I might put Davis in over some other guys (which is an entirely different thread).And I've already mentioned in several of these threads that IMO Warner was a borderline HOFer for the same reasons you're suggesting. A few extra post season games this year won't reshape his entire career IMO (but it may for others).
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Very similar to Ken Anderson in a lot of ways. Huge numbers but detractors will always say the system/WRs deserve much of the credit. More on point, Anderson had three truly spectacular seasons -- '74, '75 and '81. That's kind of like Warner's '99, '01 and '08. Both made the SB in that last out of nowhere year. Anderson actually followed it up with another monster year in the strike shortened '82 seasons.Favre also had a huge lull between big years in '01 and '07. Everyone thought he was done and 2007 really came out of nowhere.It's very easy to forget it now but Elway had a similar pattern. He was good in '86 and great in '87 when he took Denver to the SB. But he had a very down year in '89 when they went, and really lost his way from '88 to '92. He was great in '87 and '93 but those in between years he had seven more INTs than TDs and just average numbers overall. Sonny Jurgensen, another HOFer, had an awesome year in '61 and then was inconsistent before having another huge season in '67 for a new team. A couple of old 49ers QBs fit the bill, too. John Brodie had a very good year in '61 and then didn't do much (was okay in '65) until 1970 when he had a breakout year at the age of 35. Y.A. Tittle had big years in '53 and '54 and then was just kind of mediocre for a long stretch of years before back to back 30 TD seasons in '62 and '63.And then there's Randall. He was great in the late '80s, then was never the same after the injury, wasn't heard of for awhile, became a carpenter, and then all of the sudden he got two awesome WRs and he had arguably the best season of his career.TheDirtyWord said:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
They both had big luls in their career. Plunkett could throw the deep ball as does Warner. I wasn't saying they throw the ball the same, style their hair the same or chase the same women...
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Davis from 1995-1998: Broncos were 47-17 during the regular seasonWarner over these 110 games is 57-44 as a starter...Comparing Qbs to RBs in terms of wins and losses is probably not going to hold much water, but TD was absolutely the best and RBs don't play for 15+ years like many QBs, and Warner did get a late start.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
When exactly was Plunkett's "lull"? He was bad in NE, bad in SF, and then average in Oakland for seven years.
identikit
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Obviously there is a lot of emotion right now for Warner, that's cool. I never said he was a total null vote for the HoF, and Peter King did come out and say he wouldn't vote for Warner right now and he sits on the voting committee(scary).
I think Warner needs to at least surpass 35,000 yds passing IMHO
I feel Warner needs more TD passes which he will get if he stays in AZ.
But I am not tryign to come across like he is not a future HoF candidate, but if he retired after the SB I would not vote for him, and I think he will need some help getting in.
I'm just one voice though so just ignore me.
I think Warner needs to at least surpass 35,000 yds passing IMHO
I feel Warner needs more TD passes which he will get if he stays in AZ.
But I am not tryign to come across like he is not a future HoF candidate, but if he retired after the SB I would not vote for him, and I think he will need some help getting in.
I'm just one voice though so just ignore me.
