Will you change your mind post election if your guy loses? (1 Viewer)

[AAABatteries]

Not really a poll question but after the election will you change your mind about the direction of the party you support? 

Meaning - if Trump loses big and you supported him will you reconsider whether he had the right policy or will it be about his personality (or even something else you would attribute it to)?

If Biden loses and does as poorly or even worse than Hillary will you reconsider whether your side didn't go progressive enough or will it be about his age/mental acuity?

I get the sense from most of the PSF posters that the result of the election won't sway them around policy but rather the candidate.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'm prefer a more conservative political platform.  The outcome of the election won't change that.  I'm left picking between two different platforms, so I choose based on which platform more closely resembles what I like.  Back in the day Democrats more closely aligned with my political views.  Now Republicans do.  I'm not voting on which guy I like personally because then I wouldn't vote at all.       

 

[Joe Bryant]

My guess is the ratio of "I changed my mind" to "I told you so" will be roughly 1 to 1,000,000,000.

 

[beef]

My guess is the ratio of "I changed my mind" to "I told you so" will be roughly 1 to 1,000,000,000.

1000 units on the over, please.

 

[The Commish]

Not really a poll question but after the election will you change your mind about the direction of the party you support? 

Meaning - if Trump loses big and you supported him will you reconsider whether he had the right policy or will it be about his personality (or even something else you would attribute it to)?

If Biden loses and does as poorly or even worse than Hillary will you reconsider whether your side didn't go progressive enough or will it be about his age/mental acuity?

I get the sense from most of the PSF posters that the result of the election won't sway them around policy but rather the candidate.

If "control" shifts and Biden wins, there's going to be a HUGE shift in what people care about.  Things people poo poo'd as no big deal under Trump will all of a sudden be important and things that people thought were important will be poo poo'd.  It happens every single time the parties shift power.  I mean, we already see it happening here.  My ideology has changed slightly over the years...I'm a bit more socially moderate than I used to be, but my fiscal conservatism hasn't all that much...regardless neither "side" is addressing that anymore.  Those things are independent of the policies/politicians and more guided by my morality than anything.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If my guy loses that will suck, but I'm not going to change my mind just because a bunch of other people made a huge mistake.

 

[AAABatteries]

My guess is the ratio of "I changed my mind" to "I told you so" will be roughly 1 to 1,000,000,000.

Yeah, that's why I limited it to just if your guy loses.  I imagine whoever wins will have plenty of folks being obnoxious about it - probably including me.  I do feel like I can pretty honestly say this will be the first time I'm either relieved or full of dread based on the results of POTUS election.

I will say to kind of answer the question I posed in the OP - Biden isn't my guy as I didn't vote for him in the primary, so I won't really "change my mind" but it will continue to confirm for me that our 2-party system is broken.  Others have said it and I agree - Trump isn't the disease, he's just the personification of what I consider to be wrong in politics.  I should also add - if Biden wins I am not definitely 100% in supporting him if he goes for re-election.  He's too old and as I said, there's other folks I liked better.  Hoping for better candidates all around next time.

 

[AAABatteries]

If my guy loses that will suck, but I'm not going to change my mind just because a bunch of other people made a huge mistake.

I probably didn't explain what I was thinking well - knowing what I know about you I would never call Biden "your guy" even though you plan to vote for him.  He's not "my guy" either.  I assume if a more conventional R is the nominee in 2024 you would be back on board.

It was more a question to the folks who are die hards - folks that would refuse to vote for the other side even if Satan himself was the candidate for their side.

 

[EZD222]

I'm expecting a good portion of die hard Trump supporters to not accept the election results or say it was tainted/distorted if he loses. The bigger the win differential the harder this argument gets.

I'm expecting die hard Democrats to continue to in-house fight with each other on the direction of the party and how left it goes if Biden loses (the what would have happened with another candidate, etc).

The middle will continue to evaluate what is the next best alternative as I expect neither of the above is their "guy" 

 

[caustic]

Not really a poll question but after the election will you change your mind about the direction of the party you support? 

Meaning - if Trump loses big and you supported him will you reconsider whether he had the right policy or will it be about his personality (or even something else you would attribute it to)?

If Biden loses and does as poorly or even worse than Hillary will you reconsider whether your side didn't go progressive enough or will it be about his age/mental acuity?

I get the sense from most of the PSF posters that the result of the election won't sway them around policy but rather the candidate.

I'm a progressive guy -- my ideal policy platform is much more similar to Bernie's than Biden's. That said, certain progressive policies (like M4A) are legitimately unpopular. I think if Biden was to run on a Sanders platform, it would result in a net loss of votes, period. So if Biden loses, I don't think the problem will be that he wasn't progressive enough. 

IMO Biden's biggest weakness is somewhat related to his mental acuity -- he's not great at articulating his plans in a non-scripted setting. He has a suite of very popular policy proposals but struggles to explain how good they actually are. If I recall correctly his entire agenda would reduce childhood poverty by 75% -- that's fantastic! I learned that from a policy podcast, though, not Biden himself. And I don't think the median voter listens to many policy podcasts. 

Another potential weakness for Democrats in general is that they've largely abandoned the ground game this year. I think they're banking on voters rewarding them for being responsible during covid, but I'm not sure that will actually happen. The voter registration numbers in swing states are a bit concerning. In the event of a Biden loss, this will look like a huge blunder similar to Clinton's avoidance of MI/WI. 

My take during the primary was that Biden was probably the more electable candidate, but not by much, and that both he and Bernie could definitely beat Trump. Biden's policies were more popular but Bernie was better at articulating his vision for the country. If Biden loses, I'll probably put more weight on communication skills and a little less weight on policy in the future. I also think ground-level organizing isn't super important right now, so that opinion will change a bit as well. 

 

[FBG26]

This is the first time I've ever voted for a Democrat for President. If Biden loses, I won't say the Democrats should go even more progressive next time. I mean, maybe that's what it would take for Democrats to win the Presidency, but I likely won't be going with them. If Biden loses and Democrats go more progressive, I'd probably  vote third party in protest I guess. It's possible that I could be convinced to vote Republican for President in the future if Republicans move away from Trumpism, but unlikely anytime soon. 

 

[Van Dyman]

Not really a poll question but after the election will you change your mind about the direction of the party you support? 

Meaning - if Trump loses big and you supported him will you reconsider whether he had the right policy or will it be about his personality (or even something else you would attribute it to)?

If Biden loses and does as poorly or even worse than Hillary will you reconsider whether your side didn't go progressive enough or will it be about his age/mental acuity?

I get the sense from most of the PSF posters that the result of the election won't sway them around policy but rather the candidate.

You make it sound like she got trounced.

I was about to post a real response but @caustic just posted my position exactly. Like too exactly. Get outta my head, man!

 

[dkp993]

I felt like I had a pretty solid grasp of how I feel about Trump since long before he was a serious contender for POTUS.  Nothing since then has changed that feeling and I don’t foresee anything going forward doing that.  But it is 2020 and the world is a crazy place so you never know.  

 

[wikkidpissah]

i will still support the progressive values of the Bull Moose Party candidate i voted for, even though it's been 4-5 days since i sent my ballot in and i can no longer remember his name.

 

[FBG26]

I think if Biden was to run on a Sanders platform, it would result in a net loss of votes, period. So if Biden loses, I don't think the problem will be that he wasn't progressive enough. 

As mentioned in another post, this will be the first time I've voted for a democrat for President. If the Democratic candidate ran on a Sanders platform and the Republican candidate was anyone other than Trump, I would have considered voting third-party (or even Republican in a pre-Trump world). In this case, I was nearly 100% certain to vote for the Democrat regardless of who it actually was. Maybe there are people that won't vote for Biden (just not vote, can't see them voting for Trump) because he's not progressive enough, but I agree that strategy could result in a net loss of votes from losing people like me. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

Not really a poll question but after the election will you change your mind about the direction of the party you support? 

Meaning - if Trump loses big and you supported him will you reconsider whether he had the right policy or will it be about his personality (or even something else you would attribute it to)?

If Biden loses and does as poorly or even worse than Hillary will you reconsider whether your side didn't go progressive enough or will it be about his age/mental acuity?

I get the sense from most of the PSF posters that the result of the election won't sway them around policy but rather the candidate.

hmmm

if I had the means, a Biden loss might prompt me to become an expatriate

trying not to think about what the world will look like in 2024 if Trump steals another one

 

[Max Power]

I'll remain anti-establishment. Trump is the symptom of a problem. That problem still remains. 

 

[Snotbubbles]

Yeah, that's why I limited it to just if your guy loses.  I imagine whoever wins will have plenty of folks being obnoxious about it - probably including me.  I do feel like I can pretty honestly say this will be the first time I'm either relieved or full of dread based on the results of POTUS election.

I will say to kind of answer the question I posed in the OP - Biden isn't my guy as I didn't vote for him in the primary, so I won't really "change my mind" but it will continue to confirm for me that our 2-party system is broken.  Others have said it and I agree - Trump isn't the disease, he's just the personification of what I consider to be wrong in politics.  I should also add - if Biden wins I am not definitely 100% in supporting him if he goes for re-election.  He's too old and as I said, there's other folks I liked better.  Hoping for better candidates all around next time.

If Trump wins, my life will be fine and I'll pay less taxes.  If Biden wins, my life will be fine and I'll pay more taxes.  I don't dread the outcome.  

 

[Nugget]

Biden was around my 5-6th choice out of the Democratic nominees.  Trump would not make my short list to serve as my HOA president.

If Biden loses, I'd like to see the democratic party do a better job of branding ideas and policies.  Trump can use better imagery to describe a wall than the left uses to describe systemic racism.  Green New Deal, Socialism, Defunding, court packing all need to be repackaged.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

If my guy loses that will suck, but I'm not going to change my mind just because a bunch of other people made a huge mistake.

If it were so, we'd all be Trump supporters right now. But thankfully we are not sheep.

 

[AAABatteries]

You make it sound like she got trounced.

I was about to post a real response but @caustic just posted my position exactly. Like too exactly. Get outta my head, man!

Well she did lose to the guy that most of us around here say isn’t fit to be dog catcher - I’d call that doing poorly.    

 

[Van Dyman]

Well she did lose to the guy that most of us around here say isn’t fit to be dog catcher - I’d call that doing poorly.    

Fair enough. First thing I thought of was total votes, EC, etc. but I'm with ya, man.

 

[AAABatteries]

If Trump wins, my life will be fine and I'll pay less taxes.  If Biden wins, my life will be fine and I'll pay more taxes.  I don't dread the outcome.  

I’ll say this was probably very close to my attitude prior to Trump.  He’s become pervasive in society - as Ivan likes to say, just what we need is more politics in our sports, but with Trump/BLM and many other things that’s exactly what we’ve gotten.  And that’s just one small example of how it’s impossible to avoid him.

And that’s also ignoring the lives of others that I feel are hurt by him being President.

 

[Osaurus]

Nope. 

 

[Pickle Rody]

I've known who/what DJT is long before he landed in the White House. It was crystal clear during the 2016 campaign for everyone else to see yet idiotic/gullible Americans were hoodwinked into electing him. I thought then that Biden should have been the Democratic nominee but he chose not to run at that time. I felt he would be too old to run in 2020 if he waited. I was right, he is.

No, my mind won't change regarding either of these two.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I’ll say this was probably very close to my attitude prior to Trump.  He’s become pervasive in society - as Ivan likes to say, just what we need is more politics in our sports, but with Trump/BLM and many other things that’s exactly what we’ve gotten.  And that’s just one small example of how it’s impossible to avoid him.

And that’s also ignoring the lives of others that I feel are hurt by him being President.

I think It's just people want their isms and phobias (racism, sexism, etc) to be behind closed doors and not out in the open.  When it's out in the open like it is, people get uncomfortable.  In order to effect change though, people need to be uncomfortable.  Maybe the country needs Biden so that white people can go back to their normal comfortable lives, politicians can go back to being divisive and no one caring, the media can go back to being biased and no one calling them out for it.  The country won't change, but citizens will be able to ignore it all and claim it isn't there so they can go about their lives peacefully.  

 

[Zow]

Yeah right now “my guy” is anybody but Trump. I view Biden as simply being “not Trump.” Neither Trump or Biden actually espouse a lot of my preferred political ideology. So, no, the outcome of the election won’t change me one bit.
 

I’m looking forward to future elections like 2008 and 2012 where i believe there are two viable/good candidates on either side and I can actually examine which one mostly aligns with my ideology. 

 

[Ghost Rider]

What about those of us who do not support either major party or either candidate?

 

[BassNBrew]

Not really a poll question but after the election will you change your mind about the direction of the party you support? 

Meaning - if Trump loses big and you supported him will you reconsider whether he had the right policy or will it be about his personality (or even something else you would attribute it to)?

If Biden loses and does as poorly or even worse than Hillary will you reconsider whether your side didn't go progressive enough or will it be about his age/mental acuity?

I get the sense from most of the PSF posters that the result of the election won't sway them around policy but rather the candidate.

No, but my guy (gal) will lose.  Not a big deal, I've only voted for two winners in two decades and was rewarded with the two biggest mistakes in my lifetime with the Iraq war and Obamacare.  So basically when my guy won, I changed my mind about the direction of the party I support.

 

[dkp993]

I'll remain anti-establishment. Trump is the symptom of a problem. That problem still remains. 

I agree, but when does continuing to keep a symptom going ever result in getting healthier?

 

[Max Power]

I agree, but when does continuing to keep a symptom going ever result in getting healthier?

Same as ignoring the problem and the symptoms get worse. I'm more concerned with big media and big tech than I've ever been. 

Politicians have been corrupt for a long time, both sides of the aisle. Watching MSM take sides is unacceptable. 

Fox news ruined its reputation in the Bush years for how they covered him, now that shoe is on the other foot. 

The next war will be an information war. 

 

[dkp993]

Same as ignoring the problem and the symptoms get worse. I'm more concerned with big media and big tech than I've ever been. 

Politicians have been corrupt for a long time, both sides of the aisle. Watching MSM take sides is unacceptable. 

Fox news ruined its reputation in the Bush years for how they covered him, now that shoe is on the other foot. 

The next war will be an information war. 

I agree with everything here, the one except is that I believe allowing the symptom to persist worsens them.   If Trump truly was changing the system or fixing the things you out lay I would deal with his shortcomings.  But all you’ve listed has gotten orders of magnitude worse under his leadership (not all directly his fault, not saying that, but he certainly isn’t helping and is often fanning the flames).  This is my biggest Disconnect in the understanding of Trump supporters, the division has only gotten worse and everybody can see this, even those who support him.  Trump certainly didn’t create these issue, as you point out he’s the symptom of some very serious underlining problems, but what we know for certain after almost 4 years- he’s not the cure.   

 

[AAABatteries]

What about those of us who do not support either major party or either candidate?

You aren’t allowed to answer 

 

[AAABatteries]

No, but my guy (gal) will lose.  Not a big deal, I've only voted for two winners in two decades and was rewarded with the two biggest mistakes in my lifetime with the Iraq war and Obamacare.  So basically when my guy won, I changed my mind about the direction of the party I support.

Maybe you have bad judgement GB

 

[Max Power]

I agree with everything here, the one except is that I believe allowing the symptom to persist worsens them.   If Trump truly was changing the system or fixing the things you out lay I would deal with his shortcomings.  But all you’ve listed has gotten orders of magnitude worse under his leadership (not all directly his fault, not saying that, but he certainly isn’t helping and is often fanning the flames).  This is my biggest Disconnect in the understanding of Trump supporters, the division has only gotten worse and everybody can see this, even those who support him.  Trump certainly didn’t create these issue, as you point out he’s the symptom of some very serious underlining problems, but what we know for certain after almost 4 years- he’s not the cure.   

Why do you feel like the division has gotten worse? I agree it has and some does fall on Trump, but I place a larger role on the MSM and the way the Democrats have acted during his first term.

I think our intelligence agencies need a total overhaul. Illegal or not, they clearly became involved in partisan politics and that is unacceptable. 

I think the Hilary scandal cemented in most Trump supporters' views that there are different rules in place for different classes and that infuriates people. 

Watching Trump get treated with outsider gloves during his presidency has only furthered the ruling elite vs the people ideology. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Why do you feel like the division has gotten worse? I agree it has and some does fall on Trump, but I place a larger role on the MSM and the way the Democrats have acted during his first term.

I think our intelligence agencies need a total overhaul. Illegal or not, they clearly became involved in partisan politics and that is unacceptable. 

I think the Hilary scandal cemented in most Trump supporters' views that there are different rules in place for different classes and that infuriates people. 

Watching Trump get treated with outsider gloves during his presidency has only furthered the ruling elite vs the people ideology. 

Social media 

 

[GROOT]

I'm expecting a good portion of die hard Trump supporters to not accept the election results or say it was tainted/distorted if he loses.

You mean like the Democrats in the last election?

 

[dkp993]

Why do you feel like the division has gotten worse? I agree it has and some does fall on Trump, but I place a larger role on the MSM and the way the Democrats have acted during his first term.

I think our intelligence agencies need a total overhaul. Illegal or not, they clearly became involved in partisan politics and that is unacceptable. 

I think the Hilary scandal cemented in most Trump supporters' views that there are different rules in place for different classes and that infuriates people. 

Watching Trump get treated with outsider gloves during his presidency has only furthered the ruling elite vs the people ideology. 

To answer your bolded question, money.  The shift in media has largely been due to the ease of access of information on the Internet and the loss of the revenue stream print media provided. This generated the need to supplement that income to stay afloat via Clickbait gotcha headlines.  Once the click is gotten the journalism behind it was unimportant.  Sprinkle in America’s addiction to reality TV and drama and here we are.  This creates Trump and he’s a perfect foil to fan the flames.  The truth is the main stream media loves Trump, their ability to vilify him drives them the money they need to stay solvent.   Unfortunately while Trump understands this completely he doesn’t care, it only serves his narcissism and drives his need for adoration. So he fans the flames constantly to keep his name out there as he did his entire career. While as a businessman and building a brand that worked wonders, as a leader of the free world it’s a abject disaster and divisive.  

Regarding the intelligence agencies, my gut feeling is it’s always been this way, Hillary didn’t create this situation either. Politics was baked into their very foundations. It’s wholly unsurprising and our increased knowledge of it is also a by product of the information era.   I think the difference is I’m not defending the lefts side because the right is every bit as culpable.  

 

[dkp993]

Social media 

LOL, very true. I guess instead of typing two paragraphs I could’ve just typed two words.  

 

[caustic]

Social media 

There have been internet rollout studies looking at voting behavior of rural areas before & after they get access to a good broadband connection. As soon as people get internet, ticket splitting goes down and polarization goes up. Not sure how we put the genie back in the bottle on that one.

 

[dkp993]

Social media 

There have been internet rollout studies looking at voting behavior of rural areas before & after they get access to a good broadband connection. As soon as people get internet, ticket splitting goes down and polarization goes up. Not sure how we put the genie back in the bottle on that one.

Every single time a discussion like this comes up I will pimp The Social Dilemma on Netflix.  It’s OUTSTANDING and scary as hell.   

 

[The Commish]

You mean like the Democrats in the last election?

Yes... you guys are two sides of the same coin

 

[Capella]

Social media 

One of the worst things to ever happen to the world. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

1000 units on the over, please.

I got you down.

 

[Capella]

Not really a poll question but after the election will you change your mind about the direction of the party you support? 

Meaning - if Trump loses big and you supported him will you reconsider whether he had the right policy or will it be about his personality (or even something else you would attribute it to)?

If Biden loses and does as poorly or even worse than Hillary will you reconsider whether your side didn't go progressive enough or will it be about his age/mental acuity?

I get the sense from most of the PSF posters that the result of the election won't sway them around policy but rather the candidate.

I think the left should have gone even more left and rolled out Warren or Bernie. I donated quite a bit to Warren because I believed in her so much. But the reality is the goal was solely to get Trump out and I don’t know if those two could have accomplished that. I hope to see further pursuit of those issues in future years but the party as a whole is pretty cowardly. 

 

[BoltBacker]

Social media 

That is the first half, but I also think we are in a very strange place right now where 50% of the population think facts don't matter. Or nearly 50% of voters anyway. There is a general sense that any facts that don't fit my narrative must be "fake".

There is definitely a growing war on science that is much more dangerous for our future than the war on Christmas ever was. Part of this comes from, "OK, now we need to hear from the flat-earther to hear the other side of the argument."

 

[Murph]

Social media allowed politicians to turn voters into fans. Once that happened it was the death knell for accountability.

 

[The Future Champs]

I’m voting Biden, and I already think the Democrats should rethink the direction of their party.  Consider that, from their perspective, they’re up against the worst POTUS in modern history, in the midst of national crisis and looming economic depression, exacerbated by an almost comic ineptitude from said POTUS; yet still, their candidate, deliberately chosen for his electability, could lose the election.
 

Dems should kick the identity politics and cancel culture to the curb.  It’s almost as toxic as the white nationalism.

 

[The Commish]

Social media allowed politicians to turn voters into fans. Once that happened it was the death knell for accountability.

This is a brilliant observation  

Had never thought about it in those terms...I'm stealing it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Social media allowed politicians to turn voters into fans. Once that happened it was the death knell for accountability.

Thanks. Can you elaborate on that in more detail?