Would the Saints really take Mario Williams? (1 Viewer)

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I've been seeing more and more mentions of the Saints taking DE Mario Williams with their pick or perhaps trading down and taking him, including this comment from Peter King today:

5. I think it's looking an awful lot like Reggie Bush at No. 1 in the draft and Mario Williams, the North Carolina State defensive end, to the Saints. New Orleans currently sits at No. 2 but hopes it can trade down with the Titans or Jets to get some value for the pick and pay Williams a little less than the second selection in the draft would receive.

My question is...WHY? This team has already spent 3 high picks on DEs in the past 6 years: Darren Howard, Charles Grant, and Will Smith. They let Howard walk this year b/c they didn't need him. Grant and Smith easily form one of the most talented young DE duos in the entire league. With all the talent available in this draft, including players at need positions like AJ Hawk, Haloti Ngata, and Michael Huff...why would the Saints give any consideration to adding another DE?

 

[BlueOnion]

It is my belief, when a team drafts that high, they have to take the highest rated player regardless of position.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I've looked at this a number of ways. Maybe it's legit. Grant, Howard and Smith have all had ailments, and it's been nice to have the extra body. Also, this could be a best available player scenario, and they just rank him that high. He's often compared to Peppers or Reggie White.

Or, they could be trying to drive up the value of every player in consideration for that possible trade. Cutler is awesome. Young is amazing. Leinart is a sure thing franchise QB. D'Brick is Walter Jones and Mario is Julius Peppers. Anybody want one?

 

[hobbes4]

Not happening. Local folks have them taking D'Brick. Ideally, trading down to the Jets/Titans. I can't see them taking this guy unless they convinced C Grant to stay inside at DT or have a rotation that keeps them all fresh.

The local draft 'expert' Mike Detillier was comparing Williams favorably to Peppers so it might not be as much a reach as it sounds...

 

[Jason Wood]

Aaron,

Great question, I've been thinking the same thing. I was working through the latest version of my mock and I keep seeing lots of people making the case that the Saints HAVE to take Mario. I'm with you in not understanding why.

I usually advocate taking the "best player available" but there are exceptions to every rule. As you stated, the Saints have a boatload of needs but defensive end, theoretically, isn't one of them.

If they think Mario is really head and shoulders better than D'Brick, Hawk, the QBs, I can understand taking him as a discipline. But is there any indication from any scouts that he's really that much better a prospect than those guys?

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Or, they could be trying to drive up the value of every player in consideration for that possible trade.  Cutler is awesome.  Young is amazing.  Leinart is a sure thing franchise QB.  D'Brick is Walter Jones and Mario is Julius Peppers.  Anybody want one? 

I honestly think Brick is "their guy", with Hawk #2. But there is another true franchise player out there in Williams. To get the best possible deal for #2, they need to convince teams coveting any of the top 5 guys that they are in play for the saints #2 pick.

 

[s_ezy]

IMO this is a traditional pre-draft smoke screen to divert attention away from who they really covet

my guess is either Hawk or DBrick end up a saint, one way or another

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

 

[saintfool]

It is my belief, when a team drafts that high, they have to take the highest rated player regardless of position.

That then begs the question: how much higher does Williams grade or rate than a D'brick? If the gulf is signficant then it makes sense. However, D'brick has done nothing to erode confidence in his value or ability. I simply cannot imagine them spending another 1st rounder on Williams given their current roster. Smith/Grant proved very effective last season. Gandy, who is due $5+ million this season, seems the obvious liability that must be addressed.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I can't see the Saints drafting Mario Williams. Even if Williams is rated higher than Ferguson, they are still very similar and the Saints would not improve their team as much with a DE pick.

Just because Mario is slated as the #5 player, does not mean he will be the #5 pick.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It is my belief, when a team drafts that high, they have to take the highest rated player regardless of position.

so a team with Carson Palmer should draft Leinart if he rates the highest on their board? a team with Tomlinson should go ahead and draft Reggie Bush?here we have a team that already has 2 of the best young DEs in the league on their roster, and they just got rid of a 3rd DE partly b/c he was taking away valuable playing time from one of them. If you add Williams to this roster, I really don't see it having any kind measurable impact on the team. They would be right back where they were the last couple years, in fact. But, if you add a difference maker at a need position, ala Hawk, then I think you'll see the Saints defense improve significantly. DE isn't like the situation with the Lions WRs where they keep getting hurt, but you can still play 3 at a time if you want to. For these guys to be at their maximum effectiveness, you can only play 2 at a time. Moving one inside to DT would be a waste.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Just because Mario is slated as the #5 player, does not mean he will be the #5 pick.

Peter King seems to be implying that they would consider taking him at #2 overall

 

[psychobillies]

Portland didn't draft Michael Jordan b/c they already had Drexler. I think the Saints, more than most teams, have proven they will take BPA and let the rest work itself out.

That being said, if they like Williams that much, I hope they move back to a place where Brick or Hawk is the BPA . Otherwise it would hurt the D to have to bench one of their three best players at all times.

 

[RBM]

Been wondering this exact thing since they got Brees. Makes no sense.

On the other hand, having bookends of Grant/Smith on the d-line and D'Brick /J Brown on the o-line, is the kind of thing that leads to alot of winning football

 

[Imedos]

I don't get it either. I think they are just trying to get somebody that loves Williams or Leinart to trade up.

DBrick or Hawk would help that team a lot more than Williams would.

 

[BlueOnion]

It is my belief, when a team drafts that high, they have to take the highest rated player regardless of position.

so a team with Carson Palmer should draft Leinart if he rates the highest on their board? a team with Tomlinson should go ahead and draft Reggie Bush?

I understand what you are saying and some descretion should be applied. But I don't think it is a fair comparison. Carson Palmer was drafted 1.01 and LT2 was drafted 1.05; those are premium top 5 picks.Will Smith was drafted 1.18 and Charles Grant was a 1.25. These guys are not suppose to be on the same level as a 1.02 pick.

 

[Z-Dog]

I think the Mario thing is an obvious smoke-screen. I have no idea how it has taken off. For one, Mario isn't even the BPA! If you truly believe that the Saints will take the BPA, then Leinert is the guy, not Williams. I just don't see how people can say that they won't take Leinert b/c they signed Brees, but in the same breath will say that they will take Williams regarless of the DEs on the team (or the one they let walk).

I can see the Saints taking Leinart, Hawke, or Ferguson at 1.02. I'm sure they would prefer to trade down though. Given that the Jets are guaranteed one of Leinert, Young/Cutler, Ferguson, or Williams, and given that all of those are needs for the Jets, I find it hard to believe that they will trade up for a QB. Therefore, I think the Saints could draft Leinart without having a trade partner lined up, a la the Chargers (an even if they can't trade him they would be ok with it since Brees is essentially a 1-year deal), and if this BPA talk is true then that's what they will do. Otherwise, they will take Ferguson and be done with it.

My mock for the top 5, assuming no trades into the top-5:

1. Reggie Bush - Houston

2. Matt Leinert - New Orleans

3. Vince Young - Tennessee

4. Mario Williams - NYJ

5. AJ Hawke - GB

Yep, Ferguson falls out in my mock b/c I don't see Vince Young dropping.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It is my belief, when a team drafts that high, they have to take the highest rated player regardless of position.

so a team with Carson Palmer should draft Leinart if he rates the highest on their board? a team with Tomlinson should go ahead and draft Reggie Bush?

I understand what you are saying and some descretion should be applied. But I don't think it is a fair comparison. Carson Palmer was drafted 1.01 and LT2 was drafted 1.05; those are premium top 5 picks.Will Smith was drafted 1.18 and Charles Grant was a 1.25. These guys are not suppose to be on the same level as a 1.02 pick.

so, a team with Tom Brady should look to upgrade with a a 1st round QB?draft position becomes rather irrelevant once you enter the league and establish yourself. fact is that Charles Grant and Will Smith would be considered elite or soon to be elite DEs by most NFL talent evaluators. Mario Williams would have be to one of the best 2 or 3 at his position to provide any upgrade at all, and the difference still wouldn't be that great.

 

[datonn]

It is my belief, when a team drafts that high, they have to take the highest rated player regardless of position.

so a team with Carson Palmer should draft Leinart if he rates the highest on their board? a team with Tomlinson should go ahead and draft Reggie Bush?here we have a team that already has 2 of the best young DEs in the league on their roster, and they just got rid of a 3rd DE partly b/c he was taking away valuable playing time from one of them. If you add Williams to this roster, I really don't see it having any kind measurable impact on the team. They would be right back where they were the last couple years, in fact. But, if you add a difference maker at a need position, ala Hawk, then I think you'll see the Saints defense improve significantly. DE isn't like the situation with the Lions WRs where they keep getting hurt, but you can still play 3 at a time if you want to. For these guys to be at their maximum effectiveness, you can only play 2 at a time. Moving one inside to DT would be a waste.

Logic says "BPA", but it doesn't generally work out that way with most teams.....NFL or fantasy. Why?1. Patience. Teams want to try and win NOW, and cannot see further than their noses when making trades, draft picks and waiver moves. Some notable exceptions to this trend have probably been Larry Johnson (Chiefs), Willis McGahee (Bills) and maybe Steven Jackson (Rams), if you believe that Faulk didn't have more than a year or two left when they moved up to get him. 2. Peer/Media/Fan pressure and the "lemming effect". Also see, the 2005 Minnesota Vikings. They deal Randy Moss to the Oakland Raiders for the #7 overall pick.......then draft a speedy WR to "replace" (ahem) him. Meanwhile, they pass on guys like Shawne Merriman and Derrick Johnson at linebacker.....a position on their roster with MUCH greater need than wide receiver at the time. Williamson may turn out to be a "baller" in the end, but the Purple choked with that draft selection, IMHO.I'm not sure why people are grading Williams ahead of DBrick anyway....as after Bush, I'm not sure how a team could pass on a huge "anchor" on their O-Line....ESPECIALLY the Saints!

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Two words.

Smoke. Screen.

 

[sjanson]

I think so. Everyone says because of the contract the Brees is a "on year plug in" - but I dont agree. If they really wanted one of the top 3 QBs in the draft why even pick up Brees in the first place?

And the "give him a year to learn" argument doesnt hold water. Sure it works for some...the Viks and Culp...but the inverse is true too...eg PManning in Indy. Sure they sucked his first year, but how much better would they have been with Paul Justin or Torrence Small? Or even had Harbuagh come back?

NO isnt gonna be that good anyway. If they wanted VY or ML they could have skipped on Brees and played the FA market for another position. I think they'll endup trading down.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Just because Mario is slated as the #5 player, does not mean he will be the #5 pick.

Peter King seems to be implying that they would consider taking him at #2 overall

Which is mind baffling.

 

[BlueOnion]

so, a team with Tom Brady should look to upgrade with a a 1st round QB?

draft position becomes rather irrelevant once you enter the league and establish yourself. fact is that Charles Grant and Will Smith would be considered elite or soon to be elite DEs by most NFL talent evaluators. Mario Williams would have be to one of the best 2 or 3 at his position to provide any upgrade at all, and the difference still wouldn't be that great.

Maybe your right?

 

[Bob_Magaw]

i agree that there are limits to BPA philosophy...

as you noted... if best guy is QB ten years in a row, obviously you don't get 10 QBs in a row...

charles grant is very talented, but didn't have a good year in 2005... i think it was a toe injury... if it is healed, he should be one of the best again... maybe there is something we don't know about his injury...

of course, like others have said, this could just be a smokescreen so a team that covets him will trade up... but they can't trade too far & still get brick, hawk (leinart?)...

maybe this could be a ricky williams situation... trade grant for a player or pick they could use on a needed position, such as OL or LB...

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

i would flip the question around... if your scouts tell you this guy has a chance to be better than peppers & best DE since reggie white... don't you at least think about bringing him in, & sort out the part about recouping value by trading grant later?

 

[Saints-Man]

I do believe that especially with 1st round picks, you take BPA and then just let it all sort out.

However, the Saints scouting has not impressed me much the last few years, so I question their evaluation.

 

[cstu]

Been wondering this exact thing since they got Brees. Makes no sense.

On the other hand, having bookends of Grant/Smith on the d-line and D'Brick /J Brown on the o-line, is the kind of thing that leads to alot of winning football

For me it's simply a matter of what's good for the overall team. I have no idea how having 3 DE's and a bad LT could help the team more than 2 DE's and a potential elite LT. BPA makes sense when it's a guy who is a big improvement over what you already have, but as good as Mario is he THAT much better than what the Saints already have. LT is a liability and they just signed a QB who severly damaged his shoulder due to bad play by his LT.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

i would flip the question around... if your scouts tell you this guy has a chance to be better than peppers & best DE since reggie white... don't you at least think about bringing him in, & sort out the part about recouping value by trading grant later?

Many scouts thought Courtney Brown was the best DE since Bruce Smith. We already know that Grant and Smith can play, and play very well. I see no reason to take a chance on a marginally better player who could also go bust when you already have two young studs at the same position. The Saints should definitely try to move down, and Williams shouldn't even be a consideration, IMO.

 

[saintfool]

Been wondering this exact thing since they got Brees. Makes no sense.

On the other hand, having bookends of Grant/Smith on the d-line and D'Brick /J Brown on the o-line, is the kind of thing that leads to alot of winning football

For me it's simply a matter of what's good for the overall team. I have no idea how having 3 DE's and a bad LT could help the team more than 2 DE's and a potential elite LT. BPA makes sense when it's a guy who is a big improvement over what you already have, but as good as Mario is he THAT much better than what the Saints already have. LT is a liability and they just signed a QB who severly damaged his shoulder due to bad play by his LT.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

fair enough...

i remember you said you were high on brown & were surprised how he turned out...

of course, things can turn out unexpectedly...

for the record, before i saw williams, i thought like you... they should be focusing on brick or hawk...

i have changed my opinion since seeing him... i now think he is the real deal & imo has more upside than peppers... when he fills out, he will be built similar to white, only faster (it would be asking a lot for him to be as naturally strong)...

on value basis, peppers went at #2 overall... & that pick looks like pretty good value right about now... it is hard to estimate individual impact in a team sport... but peppers is such a difference maker, it is easy to think CAR might not have done as well overall on defense without his presence...

players like peppers make others around them better (of course brick would, too)... also hawk.

* what kind of value does grant have? if a lot, that would solve positional logjam, allow them possibly to get better at critical position (if you think williams is special like i do) & still address another position...

i know he wouldn't a pick like top 5 they would need for brick or hawk... but i wonder what grant would fetch? if he is highly thought of, should be a decent pick... if not, maybe there is disconnect between how we view him & NFL personnel types do? i don't know this is the case, but am interested in how high a pick he might yield?

DAL balked at sending a first rounder for howard... imo, grant is better...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

 

[massraider]

Oh, I think they'll have trade partners, alright. There's a Raiders rumor (I'd love it, but I doubt they have the ammo of other teams), plus the Titans and Jets could both want to ensure the QB of their choice.

I just don't think anyone knows for sure which QB is at the top of everyone's board. I think there's a tendency toward making a consensus board, but NFL teams have different ratings for players, sometimes dramtically so. While I think some teams have serious questions about Young, I wouldn't be surprised if he was at the top of several teams' boards. Same with Leinart.

If the Jets and the Titans are both wanting a QB, chances are there's ONE guy they want. And if they think the other team also has that guy rated high, it makes sense to make a move to get the guy they want.

I'd have to think Mario drops no further than 4 though. If it went Bush-Brick-Leinart, I'd think the Jets phones would be ringing off the hook.

 

[BlueOnion]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

I believe a DE in a 3-4 is more of tackle\end tweener; his primary responsibility is to suck up blockers and hold a point of attack.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

fair enough...

i remember you said you were high on brown & were surprised how he turned out...

of course, things can turn out unexpectedly...

for the record, before i saw williams, i thought like you... they should be focusing on brick or hawk...

i have changed my opinion since seeing him... i now think he is the real deal & imo has more upside than peppers... when he fills out, he will be built similar to white, only faster (it would be asking a lot for him to be as naturally strong)...

on value basis, peppers went at #2 overall... & that pick looks like pretty good value right about now... it is hard to estimate individual impact in a team sport... but peppers is such a difference maker, it is easy to think CAR might not have done as well overall on defense without his presence...

players like peppers make others around them better (of course brick would, too)... also hawk.

if this was a draft that had only 2 players in the top tier, than I could see grabbing a player from a redundant position to avoid reaching on a need player. But, the top tier in this draft is reported by many to be 5 or 6 players deep. I guess I just don't believe that Williams is any better at his position than Hawk or D'Brick are at theirs. If the alternative to taking Williams is grabbing an elite LT or LB prospect, it's a no-brainer if you ask me. All of these players are elite talents who would have probably warranted the #1 overall selection a year ago.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

Bruce Smith is the all-time leading sack artist, and he played nearly his entire career in a 3-4

 

[Andy Dufresne]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

I believe a DE in a 3-4 is more of tackle\end tweener; his primary responsibility is to suck up blockers and hold a point of attack.

That's what I thought. In that case, why would Williams be a "monster" 3-4 DE? From a football fan perspective, wouldn't Williams playing a 3-4 DE be a waste of talent?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

Bruce Smith is the all-time leading sack artist, and he played nearly his entire career in a 3-4

Really? I guess I never realized that. I've always been way more interested in the offensive side of the ball and have only lately been interested in defense.

 

[cstu]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

I believe a DE in a 3-4 is more of tackle\end tweener; his primary responsibility is to suck up blockers and hold a point of attack.

Right, 3-4 DE's don't have much pass rush responsibility. They are 290+ pound guys who can stop the run and take up blocks to enable the OLB's to get pressure on the QB.

 

[BlueOnion]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

I believe a DE in a 3-4 is more of tackle\end tweener; his primary responsibility is to suck up blockers and hold a point of attack.

That's what I thought. In that case, why would Williams be a "monster" 3-4 DE? From a football fan perspective, wouldn't Williams playing a 3-4 DE be a waste of talent?

I would tend to agree with you. I think Mario would be able to contribute more as an outside backer in a 3-4.

 

[massraider]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

Their primary role is to hold their sand, and take on blockers, allowing the LB's to make plays. If you run a 3-4, taking a DE with a top 5 pick makes little sense to me. The NT is more important in that role. If the Jets were sitting there with Mario staring them in the face, it'd make more sense to move down a few spots, and grab Hawk or Ngata. I wouldn't agree with the Ngata move either, unless they were sure he was the Samoan Casey Hampton, but it'd at least make more sense, as I think 3-4 NT's are tougher to come by than 3-4 DE's. 3-4 DE's can be pulled off the scrap heap relatively easily.

Actually, the Jets could move down several spots and take Young or Cutler, I'm guessing.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams? Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO. If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends. Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6? I just can't see it.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

I believe a DE in a 3-4 is more of tackle\end tweener; his primary responsibility is to suck up blockers and hold a point of attack.

That's what I thought. In that case, why would Williams be a "monster" 3-4 DE? From a football fan perspective, wouldn't Williams playing a 3-4 DE be a waste of talent?

A bit, but any D coordinator with half a brain would modify some sets to get mario on the edge... Im toying with this scenario in the case that Mario falls to the Niners, who run a 3-4 (Bush-Leinart-Young-Brick-Hawk would be the first 5)

 

[Z-Dog]

Oh, I think they'll have trade partners, alright. There's a Raiders rumor (I'd love it, but I doubt they have the ammo of other teams), plus the Titans and Jets could both want to ensure the QB of their choice.

I just don't think anyone knows for sure which QB is at the top of everyone's board. I think there's a tendency toward making a consensus board, but NFL teams have different ratings for players, sometimes dramtically so. While I think some teams have serious questions about Young, I wouldn't be surprised if he was at the top of several teams' boards. Same with Leinart.

If the Jets and the Titans are both wanting a QB, chances are there's ONE guy they want. And if they think the other team also has that guy rated high, it makes sense to make a move to get the guy they want.

I'd have to think Mario drops no further than 4 though. If it went Bush-Brick-Leinart, I'd think the Jets phones would be ringing off the hook.

Who do you think would be calling, and what could they offer?

 

[Bob_Magaw]

BTW, aaron...

i didn't say, but should separate what i think will happen from what i would do...

i seem to be an outlier in thinking williams could be special... i think he could be special not just vis-a-vis this class... to feel same about brick, i would have to think he has chance to be munoz good, & i'm not sure that is case...

so i would take williams...

but i think either take brick, or trade no further than 4-5 & take brick or hawk...

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams? Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO. If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends. Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6? I just can't see it.

I just read here that the Jets are shifting to a 3-4? That would seem to preclude a Williams pick. Likewise Ngata, if they're going to move Robertson to the nose.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams? Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO. If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends. Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6? I just can't see it.

I don't think Mario Williams gets by Green Bay. KGB shouldn't be an everydown DE anyway. They could play Williams and Kampman at DE on run downs...then move Kampman inside on passing downs and bring in KGB.

 

[saintfool]

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams? Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO. If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends. Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6? I just can't see it.

Well, then, that begs the question: if Williams is the can't miss DE of the draft then why wouldn't a team try to actually move up and grab him instead of letting him fall?

 

[massraider]

Oh, I think they'll have trade partners, alright.  There's a Raiders rumor (I'd love it, but I doubt they have the ammo of other teams), plus the Titans and Jets could both want to ensure the QB of their choice.

I just don't think anyone knows for sure which QB is at the top of everyone's board.  I think there's a tendency toward making a consensus board, but NFL teams have different ratings for players, sometimes dramtically so.  While I think some teams have serious questions about Young, I wouldn't be surprised if he was at the top of several teams' boards.  Same with Leinart. 

If the Jets and the Titans are both wanting a QB, chances are there's ONE guy they want.  And if they think the other team also has that guy rated high, it makes sense to make a move to get the guy they want.

I'd have to think Mario drops no further than 4 though.  If it went Bush-Brick-Leinart, I'd think the Jets phones would be ringing off the hook.

Who do you think would be calling, and what could they offer?

Raiders for sure, I've thought for a while that the only scenario for them to get Mario, is if Leinart goes to Tenn, and the Jets want Young. GB and SF won't take him, and they only drop 3 spots.And I could see the Pack wanting to guarantee that Mario doesn't go anywhere else. The Pack might not care, being happy with Hawk or Young, and they could use both, but I'd guess that Mario is the much, much more in-demand prospect.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams?  Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO.  If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends.  Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6?  I just can't see it.

Well, then, that begs the question: if Williams is the can't miss DE of the draft then why wouldn't a team try to actually move up and grab him instead of letting him fall?

Well the teams passing on Mario might be so in love with their guy that they dont want to trade down, eliminating the opportunity to move up and snag him.man, this draft is going to have more intrigue at the top of the first than any in at least the last 5 years.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams?  Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO.  If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends.  Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6?  I just can't see it.

Well, then, that begs the question: if Williams is the can't miss DE of the draft then why wouldn't a team try to actually move up and grab him instead of letting him fall?

Exactly. I'm wondering if someone might trade up to #2 to get him, rather than Leinart.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

That's what I thought. In that case, why would Williams be a "monster" 3-4 DE?

From a football fan perspective, wouldn't Williams playing a 3-4 DE be a waste of talent?

A bit, but any D coordinator with half a brain would modify some sets to get mario on the edge... Im toying with this scenario in the case that Mario falls to the Niners, who run a 3-4 (Bush-Leinart-Young-Brick-Hawk would be the first 5)

If you think that Williams could and would play well as a 3-4 DE, I would peg the top 5 picks thusly (barring trades):Bush/Ferguson/Leinart/Williams/Hawk