WR Brandon Aiyuk, SF (4 Viewers)

[Lansdowne]

It's questionable to begin with that Aiyuk is an upgrade over Cooper.

This is the second time I saw something like this posted in this thread. To me, Aiyuk is clearly better, and I'm surprised that is not a unanimous perspective.

I also think there's a real debate between Aiyuk and Cooper.

Aiyuk had slightly better stats this year. Cooper missed 1 more game than Aiyuk. He's on a worse offense. He has less play makers around him. He had bad quarterback play. People remember Flacco. But 40% of the team's passes were thrown by Dorian Walker, Jeff Driskel, and Dorian Thomson Robinson.

Cooper was statistically better than Aiyuk in 2022. Cooper has done it across multiple teams: Oakland, Dallas, Cleveland.

Cooper is the #1 WR. And after the Chubb injury, he didn't have a lot of talent on offense to shift the focus off of him.

Aiyuk has a team full of playmakers with Deebo, CMC, Kittle drawing the defense's attention. Aiyuk has Purdy who has been one of the most efficient QB's in the NFL during his tenure. He has Shannahan who is an offensive genius.

I think if we take away the amazing offense, the brilliant coach, the hyper efficient QB, Aiyuk may not be as good.
I know Cooper can do it without those things.

But we are talking about 2024. Cooper's history is great... but it's history. He is 30. Aiyuk is 26. That matters tremendously.

Let's say Aiyuk goes to Pittsburgh. He swaps Purdy for Wilson/Fields. He swaps Shanahan for Arthur Smith. He swaps his 49ers teammates on offense for Steelers teammates. All 3 of those things are clear downgrades. Yet, IMO he will be better than Cooper in 2024 in that situation.

Just an opinion. Will be interesting to see it play out.

With Pittsburgh it almost seems like a lateral move, at best, for Brandon Aiyuk as far as target volume goes.

The leader in targets for every team Arthur Smith called plays for dating back to 2019:

2019 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 84 targets (52-1051-8)
2020 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 106 targets (70-1075-11)
2021 - ATL - Kyle Pitts w/ 110 targets (68-1026-1)
2022 - ATL - Drake London w/ 117 targets (72-866-4)
2023 - ATL - Drake London w/ 110 targets (69-905-2)

Those numbers came with the QB's being Ryan Tannehill, Matt Ryan, Marcus Mariota, Desmond Ridder, and Taylor Heinecke. Assuming Aiyuk goes to the Steelers, he'll be joining a team with Justin Fields presumably the starting QB (who is averaging 407 pass attempts for every 17 games played). The Steelers had the 4th fewest passing attempts, more due to poor QB play than positive game script (unlike the 49ers who had the fewest pass attempts because they usually ran the ball with a lead late in games). If George Pickens isn't part of the trade then that is someone who will cut in to the target share as well.

There is a world where both Aiyuk and Pickens can see 100+ targets each in a Fields-led passing attack (in 2021 Darnell Mooney saw 140 targets and Cole Kmet had 93, and in 2023 D.J. Moore saw 136 targets and Kmet had 90). But any dream of Aiyuk seeing 150+ targets (which the top 10 targets leaders at WR last season got) is probably dashed, for 2024 at least.

Neither Fields nor Wilson are under contract beyond 2024 which would be another interesting thing to consider. I'm sure that could change if either one finds success during this season. But I wouldn't feel great as an Aiyuk owner with a move to Pittsburgh, I would just be hoping he can replicate his 2023 2022 numbers (which would make him WR15 in fantasy, as a high-end fantasy WR2).

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I would just be hoping he can replicate his 2023 numbers (which would make him WR15 in fantasy, as a high-end fantasy WR2).

Which seems like a fool’s errand considering 2023 represented a 4 YPC jump from his career average.

More realistic would be replicating his 2022 numbers, especially in run 1st PIT where’s he’s unlikely to see more than ~75receptions.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Chad Johnson had a good point.

SF knew before this week they didn't want to pay him. Or they can't. Could have handled this sooner.

I disagree.

They did want to pay him. They tried to pay him.

And from what I’ve been hearing/reading, Aiyuk’s team told them what he wanted, and that’s what the 49ers offered, and he rejected it because ARSB got paid and Aiyuk’s team moved the goalposts.

That’s not at all the same as “they knew they didn’t want to pay him”.

That’s more like Aiyuk negotiating in bad faith.

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

The same thing happened with the Packers and Jordan Love — but that doesn’t mean Love “acted in bad faith.” He just demanded more money as other QBs got paid more. It would be odd if Aiyuk didn’t do similarly.

 

[Anarchy99]

I would just be hoping he can replicate his 2023 numbers (which would make him WR15 in fantasy, as a high-end fantasy WR2).

Which seems like a fool’s errand considering 2023 represented a 4 YPC jump from his career average.

More realistic would be replicating his 2022 numbers, especially in run 1st PIT where’s he’s unlikely to see more than ~75receptions.

I agree the ypr numbers are due to level off, but SF last year ranked dead last in passing attempts. I don't think it would be all that crazy that Aiyuk could make up for that in additional targets . . . Diontae Johnson and Allen Robinson are gone, and they accounted for 136 targets last year. But first he has to end up in Pittsburgh.

 

[Lansdowne]

I would just be hoping he can replicate his 2023 numbers (which would make him WR15 in fantasy, as a high-end fantasy WR2).

Which seems like a fool’s errand considering 2023 represented a 4 YPC jump from his career average.

More realistic would be replicating his 2022 numbers, especially in run 1st PIT where’s he’s unlikely to see more than ~75receptions.

That was actually a typo on my part, I meant to say 2022. My bad.

Edit to add: Aiyuk was WR10 in 2023 and WR15 in 2022

 

[Tau837]

It's questionable to begin with that Aiyuk is an upgrade over Cooper.

This is the second time I saw something like this posted in this thread. To me, Aiyuk is clearly better, and I'm surprised that is not a unanimous perspective.

I also think there's a real debate between Aiyuk and Cooper.

Aiyuk had slightly better stats this year. Cooper missed 1 more game than Aiyuk. He's on a worse offense. He has less play makers around him. He had bad quarterback play. People remember Flacco. But 40% of the team's passes were thrown by Dorian Walker, Jeff Driskel, and Dorian Thomson Robinson.

Cooper was statistically better than Aiyuk in 2022. Cooper has done it across multiple teams: Oakland, Dallas, Cleveland.

Cooper is the #1 WR. And after the Chubb injury, he didn't have a lot of talent on offense to shift the focus off of him.

Aiyuk has a team full of playmakers with Deebo, CMC, Kittle drawing the defense's attention. Aiyuk has Purdy who has been one of the most efficient QB's in the NFL during his tenure. He has Shannahan who is an offensive genius.

I think if we take away the amazing offense, the brilliant coach, the hyper efficient QB, Aiyuk may not be as good.
I know Cooper can do it without those things.

But we are talking about 2024. Cooper's history is great... but it's history. He is 30. Aiyuk is 26. That matters tremendously.

Let's say Aiyuk goes to Pittsburgh. He swaps Purdy for Wilson/Fields. He swaps Shanahan for Arthur Smith. He swaps his 49ers teammates on offense for Steelers teammates. All 3 of those things are clear downgrades. Yet, IMO he will be better than Cooper in 2024 in that situation.

Just an opinion. Will be interesting to see it play out.

With Pittsburgh it almost seems like a lateral move, at best, for Brandon Aiyuk as far as target volume goes.

The leader in targets for every team Arthur Smith called plays for dating back to 2019:

2019 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 84 targets (52-1051-8)
2020 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 106 targets (70-1075-11)
2021 - ATL - Kyle Pitts w/ 110 targets (68-1026-1)
2022 - ATL - Drake London w/ 117 targets (72-866-4)
2023 - ATL - Drake London w/ 110 targets (69-905-2)

Those numbers came with the QB's being Ryan Tannehill, Matt Ryan, Marcus Mariota, Desmond Ridder, and Taylor Heinecke. Assuming Aiyuk goes to the Steelers, he'll be joining a team with Justin Fields presumably the starting QB (who is averaging 407 pass attempts for every 17 games played). The Steelers had the 4th fewest passing attempts, more due to poor QB play than positive game script (unlike the 49ers who had the fewest pass attempts because they usually ran the ball with a lead late in games). If George Pickens isn't part of the trade then that is someone who will cut in to the target share as well.

There is a world where both Aiyuk and Pickens can see 100+ targets each in a Fields-led passing attack (in 2021 Darnell Mooney saw 140 targets and Cole Kmet had 93, and in 2023 D.J. Moore saw 136 targets and Kmet had 90). But any dream of Aiyuk seeing 150+ targets (which the top 10 targets leaders at WR last season got) is probably dashed, for 2024 at least.

Neither Fields nor Wilson are under contract beyond 2024 which would be another interesting thing to consider. I'm sure that could change if either one finds success during this season. But I wouldn't feel great as an Aiyuk owner with a move to Pittsburgh, I would just be hoping he can replicate his 2023 2022 numbers (which would make him WR15 in fantasy, as a high-end fantasy WR2).

This is all good. But the conversation (at least from my perspective) was about who is better, not who has better fantasy numbers. Those are not the same thing.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

 

[Lansdowne]

It's questionable to begin with that Aiyuk is an upgrade over Cooper.

This is the second time I saw something like this posted in this thread. To me, Aiyuk is clearly better, and I'm surprised that is not a unanimous perspective.

I also think there's a real debate between Aiyuk and Cooper.

Aiyuk had slightly better stats this year. Cooper missed 1 more game than Aiyuk. He's on a worse offense. He has less play makers around him. He had bad quarterback play. People remember Flacco. But 40% of the team's passes were thrown by Dorian Walker, Jeff Driskel, and Dorian Thomson Robinson.

Cooper was statistically better than Aiyuk in 2022. Cooper has done it across multiple teams: Oakland, Dallas, Cleveland.

Cooper is the #1 WR. And after the Chubb injury, he didn't have a lot of talent on offense to shift the focus off of him.

Aiyuk has a team full of playmakers with Deebo, CMC, Kittle drawing the defense's attention. Aiyuk has Purdy who has been one of the most efficient QB's in the NFL during his tenure. He has Shannahan who is an offensive genius.

I think if we take away the amazing offense, the brilliant coach, the hyper efficient QB, Aiyuk may not be as good.
I know Cooper can do it without those things.

But we are talking about 2024. Cooper's history is great... but it's history. He is 30. Aiyuk is 26. That matters tremendously.

Let's say Aiyuk goes to Pittsburgh. He swaps Purdy for Wilson/Fields. He swaps Shanahan for Arthur Smith. He swaps his 49ers teammates on offense for Steelers teammates. All 3 of those things are clear downgrades. Yet, IMO he will be better than Cooper in 2024 in that situation.

Just an opinion. Will be interesting to see it play out.

With Pittsburgh it almost seems like a lateral move, at best, for Brandon Aiyuk as far as target volume goes.

The leader in targets for every team Arthur Smith called plays for dating back to 2019:

2019 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 84 targets (52-1051-8)
2020 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 106 targets (70-1075-11)
2021 - ATL - Kyle Pitts w/ 110 targets (68-1026-1)
2022 - ATL - Drake London w/ 117 targets (72-866-4)
2023 - ATL - Drake London w/ 110 targets (69-905-2)

Those numbers came with the QB's being Ryan Tannehill, Matt Ryan, Marcus Mariota, Desmond Ridder, and Taylor Heinecke. Assuming Aiyuk goes to the Steelers, he'll be joining a team with Justin Fields presumably the starting QB (who is averaging 407 pass attempts for every 17 games played). The Steelers had the 4th fewest passing attempts, more due to poor QB play than positive game script (unlike the 49ers who had the fewest pass attempts because they usually ran the ball with a lead late in games). If George Pickens isn't part of the trade then that is someone who will cut in to the target share as well.

There is a world where both Aiyuk and Pickens can see 100+ targets each in a Fields-led passing attack (in 2021 Darnell Mooney saw 140 targets and Cole Kmet had 93, and in 2023 D.J. Moore saw 136 targets and Kmet had 90). But any dream of Aiyuk seeing 150+ targets (which the top 10 targets leaders at WR last season got) is probably dashed, for 2024 at least.

Neither Fields nor Wilson are under contract beyond 2024 which would be another interesting thing to consider. I'm sure that could change if either one finds success during this season. But I wouldn't feel great as an Aiyuk owner with a move to Pittsburgh, I would just be hoping he can replicate his 2023 2022 numbers (which would make him WR15 in fantasy, as a high-end fantasy WR2).

This is all good. But the conversation (at least from my perspective) was about who is better, not who has better fantasy numbers. Those are not the same thing.

Cooper has the advantage as far as body of work and college pedigree (4th overall pick out of Alabama vs. 25th overall pick out of ASU). Aiyuk is younger as you pointed, though it’s interesting Cooper set a career high in his age 29 season despite missing two games. Looking at it I may have been premature to say Aiyuk is better at this stage in their careers.

 

[Tau837]

It's questionable to begin with that Aiyuk is an upgrade over Cooper.

This is the second time I saw something like this posted in this thread. To me, Aiyuk is clearly better, and I'm surprised that is not a unanimous perspective.

I also think there's a real debate between Aiyuk and Cooper.

Aiyuk had slightly better stats this year. Cooper missed 1 more game than Aiyuk. He's on a worse offense. He has less play makers around him. He had bad quarterback play. People remember Flacco. But 40% of the team's passes were thrown by Dorian Walker, Jeff Driskel, and Dorian Thomson Robinson.

Cooper was statistically better than Aiyuk in 2022. Cooper has done it across multiple teams: Oakland, Dallas, Cleveland.

Cooper is the #1 WR. And after the Chubb injury, he didn't have a lot of talent on offense to shift the focus off of him.

Aiyuk has a team full of playmakers with Deebo, CMC, Kittle drawing the defense's attention. Aiyuk has Purdy who has been one of the most efficient QB's in the NFL during his tenure. He has Shannahan who is an offensive genius.

I think if we take away the amazing offense, the brilliant coach, the hyper efficient QB, Aiyuk may not be as good.
I know Cooper can do it without those things.

But we are talking about 2024. Cooper's history is great... but it's history. He is 30. Aiyuk is 26. That matters tremendously.

Let's say Aiyuk goes to Pittsburgh. He swaps Purdy for Wilson/Fields. He swaps Shanahan for Arthur Smith. He swaps his 49ers teammates on offense for Steelers teammates. All 3 of those things are clear downgrades. Yet, IMO he will be better than Cooper in 2024 in that situation.

Just an opinion. Will be interesting to see it play out.

With Pittsburgh it almost seems like a lateral move, at best, for Brandon Aiyuk as far as target volume goes.

The leader in targets for every team Arthur Smith called plays for dating back to 2019:

2019 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 84 targets (52-1051-8)
2020 - TEN - A.J. Brown w/ 106 targets (70-1075-11)
2021 - ATL - Kyle Pitts w/ 110 targets (68-1026-1)
2022 - ATL - Drake London w/ 117 targets (72-866-4)
2023 - ATL - Drake London w/ 110 targets (69-905-2)

Those numbers came with the QB's being Ryan Tannehill, Matt Ryan, Marcus Mariota, Desmond Ridder, and Taylor Heinecke. Assuming Aiyuk goes to the Steelers, he'll be joining a team with Justin Fields presumably the starting QB (who is averaging 407 pass attempts for every 17 games played). The Steelers had the 4th fewest passing attempts, more due to poor QB play than positive game script (unlike the 49ers who had the fewest pass attempts because they usually ran the ball with a lead late in games). If George Pickens isn't part of the trade then that is someone who will cut in to the target share as well.

There is a world where both Aiyuk and Pickens can see 100+ targets each in a Fields-led passing attack (in 2021 Darnell Mooney saw 140 targets and Cole Kmet had 93, and in 2023 D.J. Moore saw 136 targets and Kmet had 90). But any dream of Aiyuk seeing 150+ targets (which the top 10 targets leaders at WR last season got) is probably dashed, for 2024 at least.

Neither Fields nor Wilson are under contract beyond 2024 which would be another interesting thing to consider. I'm sure that could change if either one finds success during this season. But I wouldn't feel great as an Aiyuk owner with a move to Pittsburgh, I would just be hoping he can replicate his 2023 2022 numbers (which would make him WR15 in fantasy, as a high-end fantasy WR2).

This is all good. But the conversation (at least from my perspective) was about who is better, not who has better fantasy numbers. Those are not the same thing.

Cooper has the advantage as far as body of work and college pedigree (4th overall pick out of Alabama vs. 25th overall pick out of ASU). Aiyuk is younger as you pointed, though it’s interesting Cooper set a career high in his age 29 season despite missing two games. Looking at it I may have been premature to say Aiyuk is better at this stage in their careers.

As I have made clear, I don't think it is premature. Just my opinion, and look forward to seeing it play out.

 

[Jail]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

Where have you read there was an agreement reached? I have not read that anywhere.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

Where have you read there was an agreement reached? I have not read that anywhere.

I didn’t say there was an agreement reached.

I was making an analogy.

What I’ve heard locally and read is that Aiyuk’s team asked for a number.

The 49ers gave him the number he asked for.

Then Aiyuk asked for a higher number.

Thus my analogy.

 

[Chaka]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

We don't actually know what the offer was, I see in her that it was $26.5 mil/y and then I see it was $28 mil/y but we really have no idea. We don't actually know what the sequence of events was either. We have no idea if, at any point Aiyuk's team agreed to a deal. It's all speculation.

But, if the Niners and Aiyuk had an agreement for $10 he would have signed it. The Niners would have had ink on paper (probably digitally) asafp and his agents would have leaked the numbers. He didn't. He waited and found out he might be able to get $13 instead.

Not bad faith.

 

[Jail]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

Where have you read there was an agreement reached? I have not read that anywhere.

I didn’t say there was an agreement reached.

I was making an analogy.

What I’ve heard locally and read is that Aiyuk’s team asked for a number.

The 49ers gave him the number he asked for.

Then Aiyuk asked for a higher number.

Thus my analogy.

Ahh. Well in your analogy an agreement was reached. Not a good analogy.

 

[osubuckeyeman]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

Get it on ink, and then it's done. I had a broker try to change my mortgage rate a few days after we agreed. I sold real estate then and said I wanted it written out. It was late in the day, and we were in her office, and she was heading out for the weekend. She locked us in (she said) but not in writing, but I did make her send it via email, which, thank goodness, counts as an agreement. She did not even want to do that, but we would not leave the office without any agreement on something that showed we agreed, and she agreed. She returned from her long weekend, and the market changed. She wanted to back out because the market had changed, and she had not officially locked us in their system. She was going to lose money now. My point is a deal is not a deal till it is a deal, and you have it in writing or something that counts as a contract. Till then, it's talk and speculation. We had to fight it out, but the email was honored. The last deal I had with her. She was very upset, and it did end our business relationship. My wife, though, was very relieved and often tells the story. The market was not predicted to change by that much or at all, but you never know. The Niners need to crap or get off the pot.

 

[Wingnut]

CMC is due for another season ending IR....Deebo is due to miss half the season again...The clock strikes midnight on Purdy....Rams win the division the next 3 years...Shanahan leaves in disgrace

I predict you'll be batting .000 with these predictions wishes.

You were that dude who said Aiyuk would 1000℅ be playing for the Niners this year when I brought up him getting traded at the end of last season.

I don't think I ever said that, but even if I did, that has nothing to do with you wishing for injuries and the downfall of the 49ers.

Keep wishing, it ain't happening any time soon.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

Where have you read there was an agreement reached? I have not read that anywhere.

I didn’t say there was an agreement reached.

I was making an analogy.

What I’ve heard locally and read is that Aiyuk’s team asked for a number.

The 49ers gave him the number he asked for.

Then Aiyuk asked for a higher number.

Thus my analogy.

Ahh. Well in your analogy an agreement was reached. Not a good analogy.

You’re a bit too literal. Analogies aren’t perfect. Sorry to have disappointed you.

That was why I thought it was bad faith negotiation. Final answer.

 

[Wingnut]

49ers not in a rush to complete Aiyuk trade

Link

While everyone waits for a resolution to the Brandon Aiyuk situation, one NFL insider believes the San Francisco 49ers aren't in a rush to finalize a trade, nor should they be. ESPN's Adam Schefter suggests that interested teams face a tough challenge: They must meet the 49ers' trade demands and find a way to make Aiyuk one of the NFL's top-paid receivers.

Complicating matters further, even if an interested team meets both criteria, Aiyuk can derail any trade he doesn't favor by simply stating he has no intention of signing a long-term deal with that team.

"So I think when you step back and assess the situation, a lot of people around the league believe that the 49ers are not going to be in any rush here to make a move, despite the fact that everybody's waiting for an update, waiting to see when and if Brandon Aiyuk will be traded," Schefter commented. "He might be, and he might be soon, but they are not rushing into anything right now.

"They're going to take their time, be deliberate, and see what's out there before they make any move at all because they do know that they would be moving on from a very good wide receiver."

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

Get it on ink, and then it's done. I had a broker try to change my mortgage rate a few days after we agreed. I sold real estate then and said I wanted it written out. It was late in the day, and we were in her office, and she was heading out for the weekend. She locked us in (she said) but not in writing, but I did make her send it via email, which, thank goodness, counts as an agreement. She did not even want to do that, but we would not leave the office without any agreement on something that showed we agreed, and she agreed. She returned from her long weekend, and the market changed. She wanted to back out because the market had changed, and she had not officially locked us in their system. She was going to lose money now. My point is a deal is not a deal till it is a deal, and you have it in writing or something that counts as a contract. Till then, it's talk and speculation. We had to fight it out, but the email was honored. The last deal I had with her. She was very upset, and it did end our business relationship. My wife, though, was very relieved and often tells the story. The market was not predicted to change by that much or at all, but you never know. The Niners need to crap or get off the pot.

Oh I totally agree.

But pro sports isn’t like buying a house, or a bicycle.

Aiyuk is under contract. The 49ers don’t have to do anything. But Aiyuk asked for a new contract & the 49ers gave what he asked for.

And then he asked for more,

I’m not sure there is a good analogy for what that is, but it comes off to me as bad faith negotiations. 49ers went out of their way to accommodate his request, and it wasn’t good enough.

Part of me wants them to say, “ok, we tried. Guess you can play the final year of your contract as-is or sit out a year.” And be done with it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not bad faith.

Again, the 49ers didn’t have to offer him a new deal at all. They didn’t have to entertain literally any of this because Aiyuk is under contract.

So when I say it’s bad faith, I’m including the fact that the 49ers went above and beyond to make him an offer of the extension he asked for.

Then he wanted more.

Maybe there’s a better term for it. Whatever it is, it comes off as being greedy/selfish.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

49ers not in a rush to complete Aiyuk trade

Link

While everyone waits for a resolution to the Brandon Aiyuk situation, one NFL insider believes the San Francisco 49ers aren't in a rush to finalize a trade, nor should they be. ESPN's Adam Schefter suggests that interested teams face a tough challenge: They must meet the 49ers' trade demands and find a way to make Aiyuk one of the NFL's top-paid receivers.

Complicating matters further, even if an interested team meets both criteria, Aiyuk can derail any trade he doesn't favor by simply stating he has no intention of signing a long-term deal with that team.

"So I think when you step back and assess the situation, a lot of people around the league believe that the 49ers are not going to be in any rush here to make a move, despite the fact that everybody's waiting for an update, waiting to see when and if Brandon Aiyuk will be traded," Schefter commented. "He might be, and he might be soon, but they are not rushing into anything right now.

"They're going to take their time, be deliberate, and see what's out there before they make any move at all because they do know that they would be moving on from a very good wide receiver."

zero surprise here.

 

[FBG Moderator]

You cry like a petty ***** over Aiyuk leaving, then I respond in kind

We will see.

It is funny CMC went down about 10 minutes after my post.

Don't

 

[Lansdowne]

49ers not in a rush to complete Aiyuk trade

Link

While everyone waits for a resolution to the Brandon Aiyuk situation, one NFL insider believes the San Francisco 49ers aren't in a rush to finalize a trade, nor should they be. ESPN's Adam Schefter suggests that interested teams face a tough challenge: They must meet the 49ers' trade demands and find a way to make Aiyuk one of the NFL's top-paid receivers.

Complicating matters further, even if an interested team meets both criteria, Aiyuk can derail any trade he doesn't favor by simply stating he has no intention of signing a long-term deal with that team.

"So I think when you step back and assess the situation, a lot of people around the league believe that the 49ers are not going to be in any rush here to make a move, despite the fact that everybody's waiting for an update, waiting to see when and if Brandon Aiyuk will be traded," Schefter commented. "He might be, and he might be soon, but they are not rushing into anything right now.

"They're going to take their time, be deliberate, and see what's out there before they make any move at all because they do know that they would be moving on from a very good wide receiver."

49ers reminding Aiyuk who has the leverage here.

 

[Jail]

49ers not in a rush to complete Aiyuk trade

Link

While everyone waits for a resolution to the Brandon Aiyuk situation, one NFL insider believes the San Francisco 49ers aren't in a rush to finalize a trade, nor should they be. ESPN's Adam Schefter suggests that interested teams face a tough challenge: They must meet the 49ers' trade demands and find a way to make Aiyuk one of the NFL's top-paid receivers.

Complicating matters further, even if an interested team meets both criteria, Aiyuk can derail any trade he doesn't favor by simply stating he has no intention of signing a long-term deal with that team.

"So I think when you step back and assess the situation, a lot of people around the league believe that the 49ers are not going to be in any rush here to make a move, despite the fact that everybody's waiting for an update, waiting to see when and if Brandon Aiyuk will be traded," Schefter commented. "He might be, and he might be soon, but they are not rushing into anything right now.

"They're going to take their time, be deliberate, and see what's out there before they make any move at all because they do know that they would be moving on from a very good wide receiver."

49ers reminding Aiyuk who has the leverage here.

Yeah . Or at least trying to.

I saw that Michael Silver wrote something about this situation really bothering Shanahan. It was behind a paywall, so I couldn't finish it. I imagine that will be the question. How much tolerance do they have for this distraction? Pitt seems to know that BA wants to go there, so playing hardball on the trade offer. Who will blink 1st? Meanwhile CMC is hurt and your starting LT is holding out. What a mess.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

49ers not in a rush to complete Aiyuk trade

Link

While everyone waits for a resolution to the Brandon Aiyuk situation, one NFL insider believes the San Francisco 49ers aren't in a rush to finalize a trade, nor should they be. ESPN's Adam Schefter suggests that interested teams face a tough challenge: They must meet the 49ers' trade demands and find a way to make Aiyuk one of the NFL's top-paid receivers.

Complicating matters further, even if an interested team meets both criteria, Aiyuk can derail any trade he doesn't favor by simply stating he has no intention of signing a long-term deal with that team.

"So I think when you step back and assess the situation, a lot of people around the league believe that the 49ers are not going to be in any rush here to make a move, despite the fact that everybody's waiting for an update, waiting to see when and if Brandon Aiyuk will be traded," Schefter commented. "He might be, and he might be soon, but they are not rushing into anything right now.

"They're going to take their time, be deliberate, and see what's out there before they make any move at all because they do know that they would be moving on from a very good wide receiver."

49ers reminding Aiyuk who has the leverage here.

Yeah . Or at least trying to.

I saw that Michael Silver wrote something about this situation really bothering Shanahan. It was behind a paywall, so I couldn't finish it. I imagine that will be the question. How much tolerance do they have for this distraction? Pitt seems to know that BA wants to go there, so playing hardball on the trade offer. Who will blink 1st? Meanwhile CMC is hurt and your starting LT is holding out. What a mess.

The issue is that the 49ers literally don’t have to do anything.

And no amount of distraction is worth getting fleeced in a deal by PIT when they can do nothing & flip Aiyuk’s “leverage” on its head since he has none.

Play or don’t. Get paid or don’t. Those will quickly be Aiyuk’s choices.

I still see an outside shot at Aiyuk signing in SF.

What I do not see even the most remote possibility of is the 49ers getting tired of the antics and taking less than their asking price in a trade they absolutely do not have to make.

That would make the least sense of any outcome. 49ers are shrewd negotiators, if nothing else.

 

[Ilov80s]

Aiyuk's efficiency was crazy last year but I have to think playing with Deebo, Kittle, CMC and for one of the true proven great OCs plays a major role. Would things have been so rosy if he had to play in Dallas and be the focal point of the whole offense? Impossible to say.

 

[Ilov80s]

49ers not in a rush to complete Aiyuk trade

Link

While everyone waits for a resolution to the Brandon Aiyuk situation, one NFL insider believes the San Francisco 49ers aren't in a rush to finalize a trade, nor should they be. ESPN's Adam Schefter suggests that interested teams face a tough challenge: They must meet the 49ers' trade demands and find a way to make Aiyuk one of the NFL's top-paid receivers.

Complicating matters further, even if an interested team meets both criteria, Aiyuk can derail any trade he doesn't favor by simply stating he has no intention of signing a long-term deal with that team.

"So I think when you step back and assess the situation, a lot of people around the league believe that the 49ers are not going to be in any rush here to make a move, despite the fact that everybody's waiting for an update, waiting to see when and if Brandon Aiyuk will be traded," Schefter commented. "He might be, and he might be soon, but they are not rushing into anything right now.

"They're going to take their time, be deliberate, and see what's out there before they make any move at all because they do know that they would be moving on from a very good wide receiver."

49ers reminding Aiyuk who has the leverage here.

Yeah . Or at least trying to.

I saw that Michael Silver wrote something about this situation really bothering Shanahan. It was behind a paywall, so I couldn't finish it. I imagine that will be the question. How much tolerance do they have for this distraction? Pitt seems to know that BA wants to go there, so playing hardball on the trade offer. Who will blink 1st? Meanwhile CMC is hurt and your starting LT is holding out. What a mess.

Lets not forget a couple years ago when people had Aiyuk pegged as a breakout player and Shanahan clearly was punishing him for the first maybe half of the year. There is for sure something about Aiyuk that has rubbed Shanahan the wrong way from the jump.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

It sounds like they didn’t actually give him what he asked for — they hinted that it might happen, and then they didn’t make it formal. In the meantime, the market moved on, so Aiyuk upped his asking price.

In your analogy, the neighbor agreed and then you didn’t show up for 3 weeks to pay for the bike, so the neighbor moved on and started looking for other offers.

 

[jumper]

49ers not in a rush to complete Aiyuk trade

Link

While everyone waits for a resolution to the Brandon Aiyuk situation, one NFL insider believes the San Francisco 49ers aren't in a rush to finalize a trade, nor should they be. ESPN's Adam Schefter suggests that interested teams face a tough challenge: They must meet the 49ers' trade demands and find a way to make Aiyuk one of the NFL's top-paid receivers.

Complicating matters further, even if an interested team meets both criteria, Aiyuk can derail any trade he doesn't favor by simply stating he has no intention of signing a long-term deal with that team.

"So I think when you step back and assess the situation, a lot of people around the league believe that the 49ers are not going to be in any rush here to make a move, despite the fact that everybody's waiting for an update, waiting to see when and if Brandon Aiyuk will be traded," Schefter commented. "He might be, and he might be soon, but they are not rushing into anything right now.

"They're going to take their time, be deliberate, and see what's out there before they make any move at all because they do know that they would be moving on from a very good wide receiver."

49ers reminding Aiyuk who has the leverage here.

Yeah . Or at least trying to.

I saw that Michael Silver wrote something about this situation really bothering Shanahan. It was behind a paywall, so I couldn't finish it. I imagine that will be the question. How much tolerance do they have for this distraction? Pitt seems to know that BA wants to go there, so playing hardball on the trade offer. Who will blink 1st? Meanwhile CMC is hurt and your starting LT is holding out. What a mess.

The issue is that the 49ers literally don’t have to do anything.

And no amount of distraction is worth getting fleeced in a deal by PIT when they can do nothing & flip Aiyuk’s “leverage” on its head since he has none.

Play or don’t. Get paid or don’t. Those will quickly be Aiyuk’s choices.

I still see an outside shot at Aiyuk signing in SF.

What I do not see even the most remote possibility of is the 49ers getting tired of the antics and taking less than their asking price in a trade they absolutely do not have to make.

That would make the least sense of any outcome. 49ers are shrewd negotiators, if nothing else.

It's not shrewd, closer to the opposite in fact. Same deal with the Steelers and Le'Veon Bell a few years back. Sure you want to be a good steward of your resources and cap space, but this is how you misplay your hand. A key guy holds out and derails your Super Bowl hopes while you're in a contending window. A key guy who is under current contract and you're paying anyway. It's not like "well just hold out and don't get paid then" helps much since you won't be able to shift his cap hit this year to pay another player to help you hoist the Lombardi.

So yeah, I guess if you want to call it 'shrewd' in saying "we're willing to sacrifice winning this year, so that a couple years from now we'll have a few million more in cap space" then be my guest.

 

[Wingnut]

Larry Krueger of 95.7 The Game in San Francisco says 49ers are searching for a team who will offer a WR in Aiyuk trade.

x.com

twitter.com

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So yeah, I guess if you want to call it 'shrewd' in saying "we're willing to sacrifice winning this year, so that a couple years from now we'll have a few million more in cap space" then be my guest.

I don’t see that as what the 49ers did.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

It sounds like they didn’t actually give him what he asked for — they hinted that it might happen, and then they didn’t make it formal. In the meantime, the market moved on, so Aiyuk upped his asking price.

In your analogy, the neighbor agreed and then you didn’t show up for 3 weeks to pay for the bike, so the neighbor moved on and started looking for other offers.

That’s fair. Like I said, it’s an imperfect analogy. It’s a weird situation & I'm not sure there is a perfect analogy.

But it’s an important consideration that in negotiating that extension, the 49ers didn’t have to even entertain the discussion. They did it to appease Aiyuk.

I just want it to be over. I’m tired of it.

 

[menobrown]

Chad Johnson had a good point.

SF knew before this week they didn't want to pay him. Or they can't. Could have handled this sooner.

I disagree.

They did want to pay him. They tried to pay him.

And from what I’ve been hearing/reading, Aiyuk’s team told them what he wanted, and that’s what the 49ers offered, and he rejected it because ARSB got paid and Aiyuk’s team moved the goalposts.

That’s not at all the same as “they knew they didn’t want to pay him”.

That’s more like Aiyuk negotiating in bad faith.

Amen. I don't think Chad Johnson has any point tbh.

Don't know structure but sure sounds like Aiyuk was offered about $26m'ish a year from SF. That's solid. He already knows that NE will pay him more so he's justified in asking for more and/or believing he's worth more. It's easy to understand his point that he's as good as someone like ASRB and deserves to be paid accordingly. It's also easy IMO to make a point that he's no better then DJ Moore, Nico Collins or Devonta Smith and they signed for that range or less.

Also regarding your last sentence about him not negotiating in good faith, that has some merit to me because at this point it's hard to figure out what exactly he wants and I'm left thinking he won't come out and say it but the answer is just "out of SF" for inexplicable reasons. I mean if it this was just over money why not take what NE reportedly offered? Seems like a difficult guy to make happy, maybe he does not know what he wants.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Also regarding your last sentence about him not negotiating in good faith, that has some merit to me because at this point it's hard to figure out what exactly he wants and I'm left thinking he won't come out and say it but the answer is just "out of SF" for inexplicable reasons. I mean if it this was just over money why not take what NE reportedly offered? Seems like a difficult guy to make happy, maybe he does not know what he wants.

Yep - it’s just been a bad vibe since immediately after the SB.

Hey, we’ve all had jobs we didn’t like, but SF seems like a pretty solid environment. Winning team, good shot at another SB appearance - so if it’s not about environment & it’s not about $$$, then what?

There’s something there we don’t know. We may never know, but then, ya never know. Secrets don’t stay secret forever.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

For what it’s worth, I want Aiyuk to stay with the 49ers, and I’m super bummed this is happening.

If there’s a biting tone to any of my posts here, that’s on me.

I try to be objective, but I’m sure I’m directing some bitterness towards Aiyuk. I don’t dislike him. I don’t want him to not get paid. And i’m sure some of this is on the team as well.

It’s hard being a sports fan in the salary cap era. We didn’t worry about any of this stuff in the Eddy D era.

 

[Chaka]

Not bad faith.

Again, the 49ers didn’t have to offer him a new deal at all. They didn’t have to entertain literally any of this because Aiyuk is under contract.

So when I say it’s bad faith, I’m including the fact that the 49ers went above and beyond to make him an offer of the extension he asked for.

Then he wanted more.

Maybe there’s a better term for it. Whatever it is, it comes off as being greedy/selfish.

You're reaching. Teams can rip up contracts pretty much at will, it would be foolish for a player with true market value to not do everything they can to secure another contract at the earliest available opportunity. Trent Williams is doing the same thing. Is he acting in bad faith?

No, this is standard operating procedure.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Trent Williams is doing the same thing. Is he acting in bad faith?

I don’t know what he’s doing, because he already did this once.

Then a couple other dudes got paid and he was like oh, wait!

What, they give him another 2-year deal & he pulls this again?

I think Aiyuk is way more justified in asking for a raise than Trent.

 

[osubuckeyeman]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

Get it on ink, and then it's done. I had a broker try to change my mortgage rate a few days after we agreed. I sold real estate then and said I wanted it written out. It was late in the day, and we were in her office, and she was heading out for the weekend. She locked us in (she said) but not in writing, but I did make her send it via email, which, thank goodness, counts as an agreement. She did not even want to do that, but we would not leave the office without any agreement on something that showed we agreed, and she agreed. She returned from her long weekend, and the market changed. She wanted to back out because the market had changed, and she had not officially locked us in their system. She was going to lose money now. My point is a deal is not a deal till it is a deal, and you have it in writing or something that counts as a contract. Till then, it's talk and speculation. We had to fight it out, but the email was honored. The last deal I had with her. She was very upset, and it did end our business relationship. My wife, though, was very relieved and often tells the story. The market was not predicted to change by that much or at all, but you never know. The Niners need to crap or get off the pot.

Oh I totally agree.

But pro sports isn’t like buying a house, or a bicycle.

Aiyuk is under contract. The 49ers don’t have to do anything. But Aiyuk asked for a new contract & the 49ers gave what he asked for.

And then he asked for more,

I’m not sure there is a good analogy for what that is, but it comes off to me as bad faith negotiations. 49ers went out of their way to accommodate his request, and it wasn’t good enough.

Part of me wants them to say, “ok, we tried. Guess you can play the final year of your contract as-is or sit out a year.” And be done with it.

Markets change, and the NFL is different. The owners have no one but themselves to blame for making contracts worthless. This is no different since it is the norm to rip up contracts and make new ones. I agree with you. You pay him, trade him, or endure him. But you make a decision. The Bosa deal did not help their cause. The time to trade him has passed. You pay him or let him sit out or in. My story was not so much about contracts. The story was about leverage. The Niners hold the leverage. They should not apologize for using it. They can spin the PR however they want, but they should not let him go without an overpay. And if they do, they are fools. You invite more of the same with the next player. I will go back to my point a few posts ago. I do not blame BA for doing what he is doing. This does not change what the Niners should do or their leverage. He stays, or he goes with a gross overpay. Anything else is bad business. Paying him is also an option. It is not something I would do, but it is an option.

 

[Ilov80s]

Trent Williams is doing the same thing. Is he acting in bad faith?

I don’t know what he’s doing, because he already did this once.

Then a couple other dudes got paid and he was like oh, wait!

What, they give him another 2-year deal & he pulls this again?

I think Aiyuk is way more justified in asking for a raise than Trent.

Could be as simple as he’s the best player on the team at one of the most important positions and he doesn’t feel like participating in camp.

Oh I just read he has no more guaranteed money so I guess I can see why he would want that.

 

[Lansdowne]

For what it’s worth, I want Aiyuk to stay with the 49ers, and I’m super bummed this is happening.

If there’s a biting tone to any of my posts here, that’s on me.

I try to be objective, but I’m sure I’m directing some bitterness towards Aiyuk. I don’t dislike him. I don’t want him to not get paid. And i’m sure some of this is on the team as well.

It’s hard being a sports fan in the salary cap era. We didn’t worry about any of this stuff in the Eddy D era.

It sucks because like you said, you want your favorite players to stay and to get paid what they deserve but at the same time want your team to manage the cap in a smart way that will allow them to remain competitive. And there’s no perfect solution here, because the alternative would be like in baseball where there’s no salary cap and every contract is fully guaranteed, but the bigger market teams have a sizeable advantage because of disparity in resources. The salary cap levels the playing field, but it also limits the earning potential of players. And it feels like it benefits the owners more than fans because it keeps costs controlled and the injury risks are insulated by the lack of guarantees in contracts. In a perfect world teams would have fewer excuses not to pay their best players, but that’s not the NFL as it we know it. So instead we as fans are conflicted between our appreciation for the players and our desire to see our favorite teams not sidetracked. It is each player’s individual journey and they have every right to pursue maximum earnings, it just sucks when it might have negative consequences for your team. That’s business, and it goes both for the team and the players.

 

[menobrown]

The story was about leverage. The Niners hold the leverage

Not to get to far off a hot topic subject but I'll be curious what the NFL owners will try to do if the surge of hold-in(outs) we are seeing prolong.

They thought they had this nipped in the bud with the last labor agreement which was so punitive to holding-out(or in). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Chris Jones was the only guy to actually take it to the season and missed a game and said he cost himself millions.

The players seem a little more willing to push things this off-season and for whatever the myriad of reasons we are not seeing NFL teams push back on the players in a way their labor agreement would dictate they can.

 

[Ilov80s]

The players seem a little more willing to push things this off-season and for whatever the myriad of reasons we are not seeing NFL teams push back on the players in a way their labor agreement would dictate they can.

It’s tough because like with Lamb or Trent Williams, you really want to make them unhappy? Heck no, those guys are extremely important and popular. Totally irreplaceable and obviously most of the players are going to take their side. You treat them like **** and you could ruin the culture of your team. Trent for example has so much leverage. He’s 36, made all his guaranteed money. If they piss him off enough he could just retire and the 49ers have no backup plan. He’s the one domino that could cause their whole offense to fall apart. Ownership has to work with the players because of the human dynamic of it all.

 

[osubuckeyeman]

Not bad faith.

Again, the 49ers didn’t have to offer him a new deal at all. They didn’t have to entertain literally any of this because Aiyuk is under contract.

So when I say it’s bad faith, I’m including the fact that the 49ers went above and beyond to make him an offer of the extension he asked for.

Then he wanted more.

Maybe there’s a better term for it. Whatever it is, it comes off as being greedy/selfish.

You're reaching. Teams can rip up contracts pretty much at will, it would be foolish for a player with true market value to not do everything they can to secure another contract at the earliest available opportunity. Trent Williams is doing the same thing. Is he acting in bad faith?

No, this is standard operating procedure.

It is only because teams/owners have made it so. What you say is true. You are right, but that does not mean that is what should happen. I can not believe I'm about to say this, but Mike Brown not giving in to Carson Palmer and letting him go home and sit was the right move with Palmer. Pay BA or don't. Trading him to another team so they can pay him is not an option UNLESS it is a gross overpay. I'm not sure there is a gross overpay here. Understand, though, other players are watching. Who is next?

Mike Brown did trade Palmer to the Raiders for a gross overpay. At the time, it was more than I imagined we would get with Palmer sitting out. Teams knew Brown was serious. He would let Palmer sit till he retired. He meant it. Teams now feel they don't have to overpay for players making themselves a pain.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Oh I just read he has no more guaranteed money so I guess I can see why he would want that.

Oh - yeah, that's a bingo. lol Hopefully they wrap that up. Guaranteed if it's pay Aiyuk or pay Williams, they pay Williams.

 

[osubuckeyeman]

The story was about leverage. The Niners hold the leverage

Not to get to far off a hot topic subject but I'll be curious what the NFL owners will try to do if the surge of hold-in(outs) we are seeing prolong.

They thought they had this nipped in the bud with the last labor agreement which was so punitive to holding-out(or in). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Chris Jones was the only guy to actually take it to the season and missed a game and said he cost himself millions.

The players seem a little more willing to push things this off-season and for whatever the myriad of reasons we are not seeing NFL teams push back on the players in a way their labor agreement would dictate they can.

It was a different situation, but Bell sat out a season that seemed crazy. If I remember correctly, though, he was on a tag. It's not apples to apples, but it's still a crazy stance.

 

[menobrown]

The players seem a little more willing to push things this off-season and for whatever the myriad of reasons we are not seeing NFL teams push back on the players in a way their labor agreement would dictate they can.

It’s tough because like with Lamb or Trent Williams, you really want to make them unhappy? Heck no, those guys are extremely important and popular. Totally irreplaceable and obviously most of the players are going to take their side. You treat them like **** and you could ruin the culture of your team. Trent for example has so much leverage. He’s 36, made all his guaranteed money. If they piss him off enough he could just retire and the 49ers have no backup plan. He’s the one domino that could cause their whole offense to fall apart. Ownership has to work with the players because of the human dynamic of it all.

All part of the "myriad of reasons" I referenced.

It's player empowerment for the few that can use it.

Look at the Bengals. Tee's really good, Chase is elite. With Tee they let it be known they'd use all the leverage they had to retain him as long as possible without signing him to the extension he wanted. Take it or sit seemed to be their approach with him. He had no real power, same as they did with Jesse Bates. They took hard line stances. Chase is holding-in and they are treating him far more delicately, though we'll see how they do if this progresses.

My point is NFL teams play hard ball with players when they can, their happiness be damned, but some players feel like they got the upper hand in a way I'm not sure the NFL thought they would when they redid the labor agreement. Star, hard to replace player happiness turns out to be a massive leverage ploy.

 

[menobrown]

The story was about leverage. The Niners hold the leverage

Not to get to far off a hot topic subject but I'll be curious what the NFL owners will try to do if the surge of hold-in(outs) we are seeing prolong.

They thought they had this nipped in the bud with the last labor agreement which was so punitive to holding-out(or in). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Chris Jones was the only guy to actually take it to the season and missed a game and said he cost himself millions.

The players seem a little more willing to push things this off-season and for whatever the myriad of reasons we are not seeing NFL teams push back on the players in a way their labor agreement would dictate they can.

It was a different situation, but Bell sat out a season that seemed crazy. If I remember correctly, though, he was on a tag. It's not apples to apples, but it's still a crazy stance.

Yes very different, don't think it was even the new labor agreement but also Bell's just an idiot one-off IMO and I absolutely refuse to engage in any discussion he made the right move.

I think it was Barkley the other day who said the Giants held all the cards on him last year when they tagged him because he said, "of course we'll play and not give up that money" or something like that. Made me thing of of Bell when he said that and thought, no, not everyone.

 

[osubuckeyeman]

The story was about leverage. The Niners hold the leverage

Not to get to far off a hot topic subject but I'll be curious what the NFL owners will try to do if the surge of hold-in(outs) we are seeing prolong.

They thought they had this nipped in the bud with the last labor agreement which was so punitive to holding-out(or in). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Chris Jones was the only guy to actually take it to the season and missed a game and said he cost himself millions.

The players seem a little more willing to push things this off-season and for whatever the myriad of reasons we are not seeing NFL teams push back on the players in a way their labor agreement would dictate they can.

It was a different situation, but Bell sat out a season that seemed crazy. If I remember correctly, though, he was on a tag. It's not apples to apples, but it's still a crazy stance.

Yes very different, don't think it was even the new labor agreement but also Bell's just an idiot one-off IMO and I absolutely refuse to engage in any discussion he made the right move.

I think it was Barkley the other day who said the Giants held all the cards on him last year when they tagged him because he said, "of course we'll play and not give up that money" or something like that. Made me thing of of Bell when he said that and thought, no, not everyone.

At best, his move was a push; he lost a full year of earning potential. I did not want to get off the subject of BA, but that move is still crazy. However, he made a decision and stuck to it.

 

[thecatch]

Not bad faith.

Again, the 49ers didn’t have to offer him a new deal at all. They didn’t have to entertain literally any of this because Aiyuk is under contract.

So when I say it’s bad faith, I’m including the fact that the 49ers went above and beyond to make him an offer of the extension he asked for.

Then he wanted more.

Maybe there’s a better term for it. Whatever it is, it comes off as being greedy/selfish.

You're reaching. Teams can rip up contracts pretty much at will, it would be foolish for a player with true market value to not do everything they can to secure another contract at the earliest available opportunity. Trent Williams is doing the same thing. Is he acting in bad faith?

No, this is standard operating procedure.

The reporting locally is that Aiyuk has been incredibly vague with his demands, to the point where he has never given the 49ers a formal counteroffer. The Niners are reportedly exasperated with his refusal to make up his mind.

I've also heard reporting that one of the key issues is over guaranteed money and the fact that guaranteed money needs to be put in escrow at signing. For a team that's been signing a lot of big contracts, that's resulted in a lot of cash payments over the last couple years. And the Yorks, at their core, are cheap. So that could be a contributing factor as well.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

How is that bad faith? The Niners didn’t move fast enough, and the market shifted. Tough luck.

If I go to your house to buy a bicycle for $10, and we agree on the price at $10, but while I’m on my way there your neighbor sells his bicycle for $13, so when I get there you say, “hey, I know I was asking $10 and we agreed on that, but now I want $13” then we never really had a good faith negotiation.

Sure sounds like that’s how this went down.

It sounds like they didn’t actually give him what he asked for — they hinted that it might happen, and then they didn’t make it formal. In the meantime, the market moved on, so Aiyuk upped his asking price.

In your analogy, the neighbor agreed and then you didn’t show up for 3 weeks to pay for the bike, so the neighbor moved on and started looking for other offers.

That’s fair. Like I said, it’s an imperfect analogy. It’s a weird situation & I'm not sure there is a perfect analogy.

But it’s an important consideration that in negotiating that extension, the 49ers didn’t have to even entertain the discussion. They did it to appease Aiyuk.

I just want it to be over. I’m tired of it.

Amen to all of that. Especially about wanting it to be over!

 

[LawFitz]

I like Ayuik and think he's a good WR, but also highly suspect a decent amount of his production comes from playing for/with Shanny, CMC, Deebo, Kittle.

Seems a big risk paying him alpha-dog WR money and compensating the Niners accordingly, without consistent alpha-dog WR tape, and all while moving him to a completely new team and offense.

Maybe they're holding him back from more opportunities to shine, but I think they more than make up for the low volume with crazy efficiency related to rarely seeing the opponents' top coverage plans.