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WR DK Metcalf, PIT (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ty247
- Start date
Interseptopus
Footballguy
That's a well written article. Makes it clear as mud for someone like myself struggling with who to put wr1
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Greg Cosell.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Not a snarky question, I really don't know...
How good of a route runner was Randy Moss at running routes out of Marshall?
Who recently has been considered a pro-ready route runner?
How good of a route runner was Randy Moss at running routes out of Marshall?
Who recently has been considered a pro-ready route runner?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Don't think Moss was at all, they just had him run go route because the had C. Carter and J. reed handling the rest. They just chucked it up in the air and he went and got it the fisrt couple years.
Once again, this discussion about a 3-cone and 20 SS for a 6-3 225 lb WR is a complete nothing burger. If they ad stats to compare to they wouldn't even mention it as being slow but being right in line....but the big WRs rarely run it. There's an article out there stating this & showing him come out of a break and leaving the DB in the dust.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
body fat doesnt necessarily mean someone is tight in their muscles. a muscle doesnt technically lengthen, it just doesnt resist stretch as much; being tight or loose is actually a neurologic adaptation at the muscles (GTOs and spindles).
body fat does assist in the body's ability to heal itself, so I would be slightly concerned about a propensity to break down later in the season or have trouble recovering from any minor injuries.
However, I think the 1.6% is a load of crap. One of the most accurate tests for body fat percent is the Bod Pod, which still relies on group selected estimates and has a significant error rate of up to 5-15% depending on what study you read.
I've even seen some of those that you stand on or hold in your hands having an error rate of 15-30%, which essentially makes them useless.
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Yes, my biggest worry because you need flexibility. Boston is the extreme example. The more tight and bulked up he got, the more he got hurt and his numbers headed south as well.
Greg Gabriel @greggabe Mar 7
Metcalf’s body fat was reported at Combine to be 1.8%. That was way off the actual which was 4%. At Indy the League uses the BodPod to measure % of body fat and it’s very accurate. Where someone got 1.8% I have no idea
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
What is the slowest time in the SS and 3C that people would be comfortable with for Metcalf?
Especially those detractors... I'd like to get this on the record because I think for some there isnt any speed Metcalf could do thise drills in to make them happy, unless it was some unrealistic record setting performance.
So what is the slowest time he could put up that would make you happy?
Especially those detractors... I'd like to get this on the record because I think for some there isnt any speed Metcalf could do thise drills in to make them happy, unless it was some unrealistic record setting performance.
So what is the slowest time he could put up that would make you happy?
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
The 3 cone and his film tell me he can never play a Keenan Allen role but a Josh Gordon or an AJ Green role gets me excited.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Randy Moss was about a half second faster on each. I'm curious if any of those down on him will actually put their money where their mouth is and give me a number
skinfanjon
Footballguy
Y'all putting way too much emphasis on some silly combine drill number one way or the other. Watch the tape. Can he play??? Watch where he gets drafted. Does he fit the system???
Comparing on a grander scale than just 2018 he's a good not great prospect. There aren't many good ones this year so he may be 1.01. Very intriguing. Will need a lot of nurture to turn into a stud pro. There's a wide range of outcomes but his ####### 3 cone won't have much to do with it.
Comparing on a grander scale than just 2018 he's a good not great prospect. There aren't many good ones this year so he may be 1.01. Very intriguing. Will need a lot of nurture to turn into a stud pro. There's a wide range of outcomes but his ####### 3 cone won't have much to do with it.
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I won’t put up a number, because frankly it doesn’t really matter. But I’d guess most would logically answer something better than 2nd percentile, or whatever abnormally low times he put up. Even 25th percentile would put him in a range where the sum of all testing would have left few questions. But he was soooo historically bad in 3 cone and short shuttle that I don’t blame anyone for taking a step back and really giving everything a second look.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
I get excited when I see 3 cone times sub 7 seconds for rb or wr. I don’t really have a low end that I look for, I just notice when someone is around 7 seconds to take a closer look, I feel it’s a better indicator than 40 time. If someone has a less than stellar 40 time and a good 3 cone I’ll look closer at that player. I don’t have a “if they don’t get 7.5 or lower they stink” number though.
I’m still looking at all these guys, but even if he can’t cut well today he could be a valuable fantasy wr with his size/speed.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I think if you are factoring the slow time with his sketchy college production than it is fair. He does have those 2 slight red flags. I still think he has mega upside and a smart coaching staff will have no problem getting the most out of him.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
This is a little more complicated than what you asked, but...
I create the same three measures for every player at each position. More or less: overall athleticism, whether he's built to move laterally or linearly, and how well he converts power into speed.
Metcalf is perfect on scores 1 and 3 -- beastly. But he is, by far, the most linear player in my entire WR data set. By almost a full standard deviation. There are some really good players near the top of that measure, and a few others I suspect would be there if we had the data, but he's way out there.
So IMO there's really no way any of us can know how his story ends since there's been no one like him. It could be that if you have his size and speed and explosion you can survive on go routes, stops and back shoulder stuff. Randy Moss and Calvin were very vertical players and basically unplayable even though you knew what was coming. OTOH, there do seem to be limits on this stuff and players who are at the extremes tend to have lesser careers than they might otherwise.
I own him in four leagues as a developmental player, and I'm happy to hold. I don't think this is a death sentence (and I also think it's possible he moves back towards the pack some when we see his full combine #s). But I'm also not looking to buy, and if he'd been a bit quicker around the cones I'd have mortgaged the house to have him on my rosters.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
His 10 yard sprint was was .3 seconds better then anyone else at the combine, 1.48.
Won't be surprised if next year I'm looking at next gen stats and see he has biggest cushion in the NFL.
Edited post above after reading Faust's link to reflect he was only 3/10th of a second faster than anyone else, not half a second.
Won't be surprised if next year I'm looking at next gen stats and see he has biggest cushion in the NFL.
Edited post above after reading Faust's link to reflect he was only 3/10th of a second faster than anyone else, not half a second.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
2019 NFL Scouting Combine: Twelve numbers that matter mostFaust said:
The ten yard split is important as a predictor for NFL success.
D.K. has the best ten yard split on record of data over the past 15 years. He may possibly the best ever since the data only goes back 15 years.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Have to acknowledge historic metrics that are predictive of future success.
The other numbers in that article (good read only shared one number) stood out to me when I did my post Combine mock - impact of Combine influenced many picks - so I note significant numbers that stand out both positive and negative and he has polar opposite positive/negative numbers so you have dig a bit deeper.
The main attribute I noted was his powerful/violent hands and how he throws off DBs at the LOS.
With the combo of power and speed he is going to beat press-man but his success is going to be heavily dependent on where he lands and the QB/OC and how they use him.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
Well if he can't maintain speed thru his break at least he has burst to get some seperation. And with his explosiveness, he should be afforded all the cushion he needs.
Very interested to see how his career unfolds. This thread has Christine Michael potential.
Very interested to see how his career unfolds. This thread has Christine Michael potential.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Very much so
In one league I have picks 1-3. I am strongly considering passing on him all together
Elevencents
Footballguy
Oh god.
Kid is a physical specimen that’s for sure. Will be interesting to see where he is drafted - I think the style of offense he lands in will be a huge part of how effective he can be. If he is with the right coach that can exploit his superior traits he could be a great receiver.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I think 1.4 will be happy no matter what I do. I'm seeing Metcalf more and more as a possible bust
steelers1080
Footballguy
This is an interesting article, partly because they seemed to pick a lot of poor examples for their points. In the first gif Metcalf burns his coverage... after the CB stumbled and fell. That happens sometimes, but it's not really an example of him breaking free. In every other clip DK is shown being followed step for step by the CB, I'm just not sure that DK's combine speed is his functional play speed. He seems more like a workout warrior, than a gifted WR.
In one of the last gifs the author talks about how DK can use his strength to get separation, and the gif clearly shows DK pushing off with full extension. In the NFL that will often be called as offensive PI (if caught).
The hope is that an NFL team can mold his athleticism into being a good WR, but I think he's just a workout warrior with mediocre hands, another Kevin White.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm completely off this train for a couple reasons.
1. I dont own picks 1-3 in one of my leagues (only pick 3 now) so picking him is no longer a luxury selection. If hes passed to 1.3 I will likely pass as well. The beauty is hes likely taken and I get the wr I would have taken 1.1 anyways.
I own 1.1 I another league, hard earned, and I cant get it wrong. Metcalf has a higher than normal bust potential and I'm not willing to make that mistake.
2. Too many questionmarks, and when people highlight his positives, like this link, they are bad examples.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Which is very possible. NYG could take Metcalf, which is intriguing.
If Harry goes to Baltimore I likely go for AJ Brown at 1.1 TBH
