You're an NFL GM - Manning or Palmer? (1 Viewer)

[Sweeper]

OK Guys, now try to keep in mind that BRADY is not actually part of this discussion. THIS IS a Plamer/MANNING thread debate. Stay focused .... cummon, you can do it. I knew this thread was going to get off track and, before I posted said that I would only reply to Palmer/Manning responses and have found that, in order to stay true to that I CAN NOT REPLY TO ANY POSTS.

 

[Pnishthm]

You might be surprised to hear this but a healthy Patriots offense is not that far behind the Colts offense. The difference this year is that the Colts D is better than the Patriots. The Patriots got almost all of their offensive players back today, Dillon, Faulk and Givens (Matt Light comes back next week). However, none of the important defensive players are coming back (Harrison, Tyrone Pool, Chad Scott).

Yup, that 16 they hung on the powerhouse Jets yesterday proves this point.

 

[djcolts]

This is supposed to be a Manning/Palmer thread, but of course that was not going to stay that way. My thoughts on Brady/Manning1. Brady is better than Manning (not as much as some Pats fans think, but he is better). Manning's great 90% of the time, but it is that 10% of the time that is frustrating to watch (I don't mean just in Foxboro in the playoffs - I mean within games). Manning NEEDS to win a Super Bowl this year to close the gap.2. I'm sick of Brady/Manning debates mainly because there is room for more than one great QB in a "generation." If Manning wins a Super Bowl this season it doesn't at all diminish from Brady has done and will likely continue to do. 3. Having said all of that, one thing that IS tiring is to see any slight of Brady seem like the world's biggest injustice. This wasn't supposed to be a thread on Brady, and yet it has become that. Sometimes it just pays to let it go. Life is easier when you do that.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Am I reading those dates right? Manning is only 3 years older than Palmer?

J

maybe some forget that Palmer sat out ALL of his rookie year in Cincy. I don't have my PFW Draft book with me but it could be he took a redshirt year at USC. He did play a senior year too. Also, late birthdays often get kinda screwy with when you start school too.

Yes, but still odd to me. Manning played his senior year too. I would have thought there was more of a spread between the two.J

 

[zoonation]

Use your noggin instead of just believing the hype. 

Brady vs. Manning

Dillon vs. Edge

Branch, Givens, Dwight, Brown, A. Davis, B. Johnson vs. Wayne, Harrison, Stokely

Watson, Graham vs. Clark, Fletcher

Faulk vs. Rhodes

Vinatieri vs. Vanderjagt

No name offensive line vs. No name offensive line (both very effective)

The Colts did not stomp the Pats this year because of our offense.  It was out pourous D that led to the blowout.

Offensive output vs. common Opponents this year.

Pats  23 vs. Pitt

Indy 26 vs. Pitt

Small sample.  Only 1 common opponent.  Might say something about the Colts.  The Pats have had the 2nd toughest schedule to this point in the NFL.  The Colts not so much.

I personally dont care how many points you pile up on Houston, Tennessee, San Fran and St. Louis.

...and the award for "homer post of the year" goes to...

Hey, the Colts are the better team this year. No question. The Pats are lucky to be in the East to ensure they make the playoffs. The Colts scored 3 points in last years playoff against the Pats. The Patriots have a TON of offensive talent starting with Brady. This is not your 2001 Patriots. Whatever the Pats do this year will be because of their offense not their defense. How far they go in the playoffs remains to be seen.

The Pats aren't even close this year, and are going to be in the playoffs when a better team, with a better record, will not (Pitt/KC/SD). Oh and your comparison of offences was hilarious; Edge=Dillon....good one.

 

[Englishteacher]

Am I reading those dates right? Manning is only 3 years older than Palmer?

J

maybe some forget that Palmer sat out ALL of his rookie year in Cincy. I don't have my PFW Draft book with me but it could be he took a redshirt year at USC. He did play a senior year too. Also, late birthdays often get kinda screwy with when you start school too.

Yes, but still odd to me. Manning played his senior year too. I would have thought there was more of a spread between the two.J

From Joel Buschbaum and PFW 2003 Draft Preview:"Notes: High school All-American who was hyped nearly as much as John Elway was coming out of high school. Started USC's last four regular season games and its bowl game in 1998, completing 130-235 for 1755, 7 TD's and 6 INT's. Completed 39-53-490-3-0 in '99 BUT BROKE HIS RIGHT COLLARBONE IN GAME THREE AND REDSHIRTED."

there you go, 5 years in college and a late in the year birthday

 

[jcjets]

If I have an O-Line that can protect the passer, I take a win now approach and go with the Vet. If I need O-line help, I take the younger QB and let him grow into the team for a year until I can protect him. The younger guy can usually take more of a beating and wont get as frustrated as an older Vet would.However, inthe case of these two. I think Palmer needs players around him to succeed, where as Manning can make the players around him better. I'll take Manning in a landslide. Unless of course there are Cap requirements, which may sway my decision based on how much cheaper can I get Palmer.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Use your noggin instead of just believing the hype. 

Brady vs. Manning

Dillon vs. Edge

Branch, Givens, Dwight, Brown, A. Davis, B. Johnson vs. Wayne, Harrison, Stokely

Watson, Graham vs. Clark, Fletcher

Faulk vs. Rhodes

Vinatieri vs. Vanderjagt

No name offensive line vs. No name offensive line (both very effective)

The Colts did not stomp the Pats this year because of our offense.  It was out pourous D that led to the blowout.

Offensive output vs. common Opponents this year.

Pats  23 vs. Pitt

Indy 26 vs. Pitt

Small sample.  Only 1 common opponent.  Might say something about the Colts.  The Pats have had the 2nd toughest schedule to this point in the NFL.  The Colts not so much.

I personally dont care how many points you pile up on Houston, Tennessee, San Fran and St. Louis.

...and the award for "homer post of the year" goes to...

Hey, the Colts are the better team this year. No question. The Pats are lucky to be in the East to ensure they make the playoffs. The Colts scored 3 points in last years playoff against the Pats. The Patriots have a TON of offensive talent starting with Brady. This is not your 2001 Patriots. Whatever the Pats do this year will be because of their offense not their defense. How far they go in the playoffs remains to be seen.

The Pats aren't even close this year, and are going to be in the playoffs when a better team, with a better record, will not (Pitt/KC/SD). Oh and your comparison of offences was hilarious; Edge=Dillon....good one.

Show me where I say Edge=Dillon? My point was that Dillon and Edge are both top flight RB's. Unfortunately Dillon has been hurt most of the year. Dillon>Edge last year so what is your point?The Pats and Colts are DIFFERENT offenses. The Colts are a great environmentally controlled offense. Good in Domes, lousy in the cold. The Pats are a very good offense in all weather conditions. We have seen that the Colts could not adapt to the weather in Foxboro come playoff time. This year (at this stage I hope) we get to find out if the Pats can adapt to the Dome conditions and keep up with the Colts. 2 years ago the Pats did a pretty nice job in Indy beating the Colts 38-34. Some things have changed since then but these teams are still very similar.

Colts fans. What is the difference in personnel this year on the defensive side? Is it Bob Sanders? Were there any other changes? Is each guy playing better? Is it the weak schedule? Tell me why I shouldnt think that the Pats will put up 30 on them if they meet in the playoffs (of course the Indy O could put up 45 on the Pats).

 

[Pat Patriot]

Use your noggin instead of just believing the hype. 

Brady vs. Manning

Dillon vs. Edge

Branch, Givens, Dwight, Brown, A. Davis, B. Johnson vs. Wayne, Harrison, Stokely

Watson, Graham vs. Clark, Fletcher

Faulk vs. Rhodes

Vinatieri vs. Vanderjagt

No name offensive line vs. No name offensive line (both very effective)

The Colts did not stomp the Pats this year because of our offense.  It was out pourous D that led to the blowout.

Offensive output vs. common Opponents this year.

Pats  23 vs. Pitt

Indy 26 vs. Pitt

Small sample.  Only 1 common opponent.  Might say something about the Colts.  The Pats have had the 2nd toughest schedule to this point in the NFL.  The Colts not so much.

I personally dont care how many points you pile up on Houston, Tennessee, San Fran and St. Louis.

...and the award for "homer post of the year" goes to...

Hey, the Colts are the better team this year. No question. The Pats are lucky to be in the East to ensure they make the playoffs. The Colts scored 3 points in last years playoff against the Pats. The Patriots have a TON of offensive talent starting with Brady. This is not your 2001 Patriots. Whatever the Pats do this year will be because of their offense not their defense. How far they go in the playoffs remains to be seen.

The Pats aren't even close this year, and are going to be in the playoffs when a better team, with a better record, will not (Pitt/KC/SD). Oh and your comparison of offences was hilarious; Edge=Dillon....good one.

I dont think Pitt is better (we beat them already this year in Pittsburgh) nor do I think they will have a better record. The Pats are likely to close the year 3-1 which gets them to 10-6. I dont think the Steelers will be 11-5.

 

[zoonation]

fair enough on the Steelers point...but Dillon has never = Edge. Tough to put up the numbers when your QB is breaking the all time touchdown record.BTW - I like Dillon a lot, he runs with everything he's got, and was a warrior for the Pats in the playoffs last year.FWIW I love Brady too; top three QB IMO.

 

[Pat Patriot]

fair enough on the Steelers point...but Dillon has never = Edge. Tough to put up the numbers when your QB is breaking the all time touchdown record.

BTW - I like Dillon a lot, he runs with everything he's got, and was a warrior for the Pats in the playoffs last year.

FWIW I love Brady too; top three QB IMO.

I guess there was just too much of a fantasy spin on my last post. Dillon had a better statistical season than Edge last year. He had a great year and really put the Pats team over the top has a top offense last year. Edge has certainly had a much better career and is having a phenomenal year this year while Dillon has been hurt most of the year.

 

[valhallan]

To keep this on track: I think this may turn out to be Carson Palmer's career year. Why? I don't have much statistical evidence, but I just feel like everything is rolling this year, and it will be very hard to duplicate this success. 69.8 comp%, 8.1 YPA, and 23/7 TD to INT is really awesome.

Palmer is playing really well this year, and I think he's going to be a top QB for awhile, but it's nieve to think he's only going to get better.

If you extrapolate his 2005 stats out to 16 games, you get 69.8%, 8.1ypa, 31 TDs, and 9 Ints.If you extrapolate his stats in the last 6 games of 2004 out to 16 games, you get 68.6%, 7.7ypa, 35 TDs, and 21 Ints.

I'd say this development started last year, and we're seeing a guy that was ready for NFL, just like Peyton Manning was.

 

[-OZ-]

Use your noggin instead of just believing the hype.

Brady vs. Manning

Dillon vs. Edge

Branch, Givens, Dwight, Brown, A. Davis, B. Johnson vs. Wayne, Harrison, Stokely

Watson, Graham vs. Clark, Fletcher

Faulk vs. Rhodes

Vinatieri vs. Vanderjagt

No name offensive line vs. No name offensive line (both very effective)

The Colts did not stomp the Pats this year because of our offense. It was out pourous D that led to the blowout.

Offensive output vs. common Opponents this year.

Pats 23 vs. Pitt

Indy 26 vs. Pitt

Small sample. Only 1 common opponent. Might say something about the Colts. The Pats have had the 2nd toughest schedule to this point in the NFL. The Colts not so much.

I personally dont care how many points you pile up on Houston, Tennessee, San Fran and St. Louis.

...and the award for "homer post of the year" goes to...

Hey, the Colts are the better team this year. No question. The Pats are lucky to be in the East to ensure they make the playoffs. The Colts scored 3 points in last years playoff against the Pats. The Patriots have a TON of offensive talent starting with Brady. This is not your 2001 Patriots. Whatever the Pats do this year will be because of their offense not their defense. How far they go in the playoffs remains to be seen.

The Pats aren't even close this year, and are going to be in the playoffs when a better team, with a better record, will not (Pitt/KC/SD). Oh and your comparison of offences was hilarious; Edge=Dillon....good one.

I dont think Pitt is better (we beat them already this year in Pittsburgh) nor do I think they will have a better record. The Pats are likely to close the year 3-1 which gets them to 10-6. I dont think the Steelers will be 11-5.

Sorry, just looking through some old stuff, this caught my eye.

So now that both have lost to the same team in the playoffs, which do you prefer - Peyton or Palmer?

 

[Banger]

Use your noggin instead of just believing the hype. 

Brady vs. Manning

Dillon vs. Edge

Branch, Givens, Dwight, Brown, A. Davis, B. Johnson vs. Wayne, Harrison, Stokely

Watson, Graham vs. Clark, Fletcher

Faulk vs. Rhodes

Vinatieri vs. Vanderjagt

No name offensive line vs. No name offensive line (both very effective)

The Colts did not stomp the Pats this year because of our offense.  It was out pourous D that led to the blowout.

Offensive output vs. common Opponents this year.

Pats  23 vs. Pitt

Indy 26 vs. Pitt

Small sample.  Only 1 common opponent.  Might say something about the Colts.  The Pats have had the 2nd toughest schedule to this point in the NFL.  The Colts not so much.

I personally dont care how many points you pile up on Houston, Tennessee, San Fran and St. Louis.

...and the award for "homer post of the year" goes to...

Hey, the Colts are the better team this year. No question. The Pats are lucky to be in the East to ensure they make the playoffs. The Colts scored 3 points in last years playoff against the Pats. The Patriots have a TON of offensive talent starting with Brady. This is not your 2001 Patriots. Whatever the Pats do this year will be because of their offense not their defense. How far they go in the playoffs remains to be seen.

The Pats aren't even close this year, and are going to be in the playoffs when a better team, with a better record, will not (Pitt/KC/SD). Oh and your comparison of offences was hilarious; Edge=Dillon....good one.

I dont think Pitt is better (we beat them already this year in Pittsburgh) nor do I think they will have a better record. The Pats are likely to close the year 3-1 which gets them to 10-6. I dont think the Steelers will be 11-5.

Sorry, just looking through some old stuff, this caught my eye.

So now that both have lost to the same team in the playoffs, which do you prefer - Peyton or Palmer?

Peyton before the loss and Peyton after the loss. Palmer has had one good season and his future is bright but Palmer at his best still probably won't equal Manning. That and the fact that Palmer will now be coming off a catastrophic injury that he may/may not make a full recovery from or have future issues with. It's a no brainer.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'll take Carson Palmer every day of the week. Palmer wont require a $34 million signing bonus that would potentially cripple my team on the cap.

Palmer got $10 million as the 1st overall pick...he then was given an extension this season that guarantees him another $24 million in bonuses [not to mention salaries that start at $6.75 in 2006 and escalate]. He's hardly a "bargain" QB either.