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Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (2 Viewers)

No point.

Bottom line.....incredible short cover taking place and a great time if you own this puppy to take your profits and feel good about it. 

 
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fantasycurse42 said:
Revenue <> profit 

Compare to VW 2019 who they’re already worth 15% more, report back.

Oh, and that’s numbers that they’re already achieving. So in a perfect world, 5 years from now, yada yada yada.
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So it's safe to assume you haven't modeled what the factory footprint and product sales would look like at $125B in revenue. And thus have no idea what kind of profits would come with it.

VW assembles and sells tons of low margin internal combustion engine cars. If you haven't noticed, they are having problems transitioning to BEVs and Europe will not as forgiving for the laggards as the US. Although they seem to be the closest German OEM to survive the transition, I would bet on VW going to zero before Tesla.

 
The new range for the Y makes it look that much more tempting now.  Deliveries start in March.  Can't wait to get in one.  

After sitting in the Subaru dealership finalizing my wifes new Ascent I tried desperately to talk myself into just getting and Outback or Forester and being happy with it.  I don't think I can...theres no going back for me.  

 
Todem said:
No point.

Bottom line.....incredible short cover taking place and a great time if you own this puppy to take your profits and feel good about it. 
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Shorts supposedly drove the stock up after Q3 earnings to pop into the $300s. Then shorts were supposed to be covering to drive the stock through 400 and into 500. Meanwhile, short interest had not dramatically changed and hovered around 25 million shares short before earnings. It's going to take awhile to cover that.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
https://www.mbusa.com/en/future-vehicles/vision-eqs

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan-turbo/?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=pcna_2019-09-09_fy20aon_taycan_core&utm_medium=paid&utm_term=brand&utm_content=ad&campaigntype=engagement&campaigncategory=brand_marketing&campaigntiming=sustain&campaignmodel=taycan&campaignmodeltype=new_car&displaycampaigntargeting=keyword&displaycampaignbuying=self-service&displaycampaignmetric=cpc&ds_rl=1282260&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmsrxBRDaARIsANyiD1qL3z5zgSU-VVli-Db_9rR-hsc48t24HIuy_o3pMk6UuzCCwTgAcIIaAsN4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Those two are at the high end of the market, that will be heavy competition for Tesla's next generation S or high end model. 

I'm sure we'll be seeing insane $40-$50k models in the next two years or so. I truly don't understand how Tesla is worth what it is with this kind of competition gunning for them. 
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Looked at both of these, thanks for posting (I'm really interested in where EVs are going).

Both this Benz and Porsche start at over $100k.  Really you're going to be starting at closer to $115k.  The Benz won't be out till next year at the earliest (and honestly, is ugly, and I own a Benz).  The $115k Porsche has a range of about 200m and will go 0-60 in 3.8 seconds.  A $80k Tesla S has nearly twice the range (and a much more robust charging network), is slightly faster (3.7 seconds 0-60), and $35k less (so you can get a model 3 as well).  A $100k Tesla S still has nearly twice the range, is much faster (2.4 seconds 0-60) and will still save you $15k.  I'm not sure how that's any real competition, other than being from a more traditional brand in that luxury segment.  It's more expensive, has less range, and doesn't compete on performance.  The Benz has a 0-60 in "less than 4.5 seconds", though will have a bit farther range - but again is at least a year away.

Also, I'm not sure this luxury segment is where Tesla is going to be making their money.  That will be from the 3 and the Y, and having just been to the DC auto show, I can tell you that nothing is on the short term horizon that will compete at that combination of price/performance/range/wow factor.  The only thing out now close is the Nissan Leaf, which even with the "big battery" has a range of 100 less miles, and a 0-60 of 6.3s (twice that of a 3) - and the Hyundai Kona which also has less range. 

I'm sure (and really hope) that more stuff will come out in this space, but I think we're still years away from other manufacturers getting to where Tesla already is today. 

 
jb1020 said:
The new range for the Y makes it look that much more tempting now.  Deliveries start in March.  Can't wait to get in one.  

After sitting in the Subaru dealership finalizing my wifes new Ascent I tried desperately to talk myself into just getting and Outback or Forester and being happy with it.  I don't think I can...theres no going back for me.  
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The size is what you need?

 
matttyl said:
The size is what you need?
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Not really size, just trying to save a few bucks by getting a subaru in the $30-35k range in stead of another Tesla that will be about $50k.  

My wife has the family car, I had the daily driver.  

That what you're asking?

 
jb1020 said:
After sitting in the Subaru dealership finalizing my wifes new Ascent I tried desperately to talk myself into just getting and Outback or Forester and being happy with it.  I don't think I can...theres no going back for me.  
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I've mentioned this line of thinking before, earlier in this thread. I drive a 2010 Grand Caravan, and will keep driving it until a major repair comes up and then I'll toss it/trade it in. When I do replace this, it will be with a Tesla, no doubt. There is no way on Gods green earth, I'll buy another ICE vehicle again. It's ancient technology, regardless of the bells and whistles manufacturers tend to put into them. I read somewhere that the comparison is similar to a smart phone vs a flip phone. I want the smart phone.

 
Dragons said:
So it's safe to assume you haven't modeled what the factory footprint and product sales would look like at $125B in revenue. And thus have no idea what kind of profits would come with it.
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What does it look like?  2M vehicles, 6-7 plants?  What type of average transaction price and margin?

 
So I went down this Tesla rabbit hole on Youtube last night with the new information about the Y, and people talking about their 3s after owning them for so long, and the battery tech, and yada yada.....

Then came across a video where the guy made a very interesting point that I've been thinking about a lot since watching.  Suppose that ~100 years ago it was the BEV that came out into the market, not the internal combustion engine and they've been around as pretty much the only option since - until now when some new internal combustion engine vehicles were starting to come out.  How would the market react?  Would people turn away from electric vehicles and go towards IC engines with all of their moving parts, maintenance (WHAT, I have to change the oil?!), noise, lack of performance (throttle response, shifting of gears even in an automatic), having to stop at gas stations rather than charging up at home, and so on....  When you hear that people who have purchased BEV say they will never go back, I wonder.

 
jb1020 said:
Not really size, just trying to save a few bucks by getting a subaru in the $30-35k range in stead of another Tesla that will be about $50k.  

My wife has the family car, I had the daily driver.  

That what you're asking?
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No, Ascent over Outback or Forester.

ETA - sorry, just reread what you typed.  You meant you were going to get another Subaru for yourself in addition to the one your wife already had.  My bad.

I'm in a situation where we'll likely have to replace two vehicles in the next few years (but going to drive both until they totally go out).  RAV4 "family car" with 120k miles, and a Benz E320 "fun" car with 140k miles on it (which is a PITA to do any maintenance on).  When thinking about replacing both, we'll need one vehicle that can safely tow at least 5k pounds (maybe more, so looking at Jeep Grand Cherokees), and then a second car that we can still put a kid and a dog and a bike on (both my wife and I ride mountain bikes, a lot).  I think the Y can be that second vehicle, and maybe the "family daily driver" with the IC vehicle as the second car, and the one used for towing. 

 
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matttyl said:
No, Ascent over Outback or Forester.

ETA - sorry, just reread what you typed.  You meant you were going to get another Subaru for yourself in addition to the one your wife already had.  My bad.

I'm in a situation where we'll likely have to replace two vehicles in the next few years (but going to drive both until they totally go out).  RAV4 "family car" with 120k miles, and a Benz E320 "fun" car with 140k miles on it (which is a PITA to do any maintenance on).  When thinking about replacing both, we'll need one vehicle that can safely tow at least 5k pounds (maybe more, so looking at Jeep Grand Cherokees), and then a second car that we can still put a kid and a dog and a bike on (both my wife and I ride mountain bikes, a lot).  I think the Y can be that second vehicle, and maybe the "family daily driver" with the IC vehicle as the second car, and the one used for towing. 
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Neither the Cybertruck or EV F150 are not on your radar for the towing vehicle?

 
Jobber said:
Neither the Cybertruck or EV F150 are not on your radar for the towing vehicle?
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I can't fit the cybertruck in my garage.  Can barely fit it in driveway.  Also, as much as I'd love to have one like 4x a year, I really can't justify a truck in the family. 

 
matttyl said:
So I went down this Tesla rabbit hole on Youtube last night with the new information about the Y, and people talking about their 3s after owning them for so long, and the battery tech, and yada yada.....

Then came across a video where the guy made a very interesting point that I've been thinking about a lot since watching.  Suppose that ~100 years ago it was the BEV that came out into the market, not the internal combustion engine and they've been around as pretty much the only option since - until now when some new internal combustion engine vehicles were starting to come out.  How would the market react?  Would people turn away from electric vehicles and go towards IC engines with all of their moving parts, maintenance (WHAT, I have to change the oil?!), noise, lack of performance (throttle response, shifting of gears even in an automatic), having to stop at gas stations rather than charging up at home, and so on....  When you hear that people who have purchased BEV say they will never go back, I wonder.
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I'm looking forward to basically never having to set foot in a gas station with the peasants.  And being upsold on some fluid every time I get an oil change (lols).

 
matttyl said:
No, Ascent over Outback or Forester.

ETA - sorry, just reread what you typed.  You meant you were going to get another Subaru for yourself in addition to the one your wife already had.  My bad.

I'm in a situation where we'll likely have to replace two vehicles in the next few years (but going to drive both until they totally go out).  RAV4 "family car" with 120k miles, and a Benz E320 "fun" car with 140k miles on it (which is a PITA to do any maintenance on).  When thinking about replacing both, we'll need one vehicle that can safely tow at least 5k pounds (maybe more, so looking at Jeep Grand Cherokees), and then a second car that we can still put a kid and a dog and a bike on (both my wife and I ride mountain bikes, a lot).  I think the Y can be that second vehicle, and maybe the "family daily driver" with the IC vehicle as the second car, and the one used for towing. 
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Stay far far away GB, unless of course you enjoy spending time at the dealer/mechanic.  While they are cool as #### (imo of course) they are not reliable or participating well built.  

 
culdeus said:
I'm looking forward to basically never having to set foot in a gas station with the peasants.  And being upsold on some fluid every time I get an oil change (lols).
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Have gone to the gas station twice in about 2 months to buy beef jerky and some water. 

 
dkp993 said:
Stay far far away GB, unless of course you enjoy spending time at the dealer/mechanic.  While they are cool as #### (imo of course) they are not reliable or participating well built.  
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But they are rated to tow up to 7,200 pounds.  Lots of stuff that I could live with as a theoretical every day driver tops out at 5k for towing.  As far as I've seen, the only things in the midsize segment that do more are the Jeep GC (7,200 pounds), Nissan Pathfinder (6k pounds), and Dodge Durango (8,700 pounds).  Wife wants to get a large tow behind camper, and I don't want the tow vehicle to be the limiting factor.   

The Tesla X is only rated to 5k pounds as well, so I'm doubting the Y will be rated for more. 

 
matttyl said:
But they are rated to tow up to 7,200 pounds.  Lots of stuff that I could live with as a theoretical every day driver tops out at 5k for towing.  As far as I've seen, the only things in the midsize segment that do more are the Jeep GC (7,200 pounds), Nissan Pathfinder (6k pounds), and Dodge Durango (8,700 pounds).  Wife wants to get a large tow behind camper, and I don't want the tow vehicle to be the limiting factor.   

The Tesla X is only rated to 5k pounds as well, so I'm doubting the Y will be rated for more. 
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I’m in a very similar position so I’ve been looking at vehicles that can tow as well.  I also drive a ton and the tow vehicle will be my daily. After an ungodly amount of research I’ve settled on likely picking up a GMC Canyon diesel Denali.  Can tow 7700, is midsize so it fits in the garage and it gets mid to upper 20’s mpg.  

 
dkp993 said:
I’m in a very similar position so I’ve been looking at vehicles that can tow as well.  I also drive a ton and the tow vehicle will be my daily. After an ungodly amount of research I’ve settled on likely picking up a GMC Canyon diesel Denali.  Can tow 7700, is midsize so it fits in the garage and it gets mid to upper 20’s mpg.  
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Not bad for what it is!  I just can't justify a truck, honestly (and can borrow one whenever I need one).  I'll need a "family" tow vehicle and a "family" daily driver. 

 
Wife’s P3D is still exciting to drive. Things I miss:

- heated steering wheel

- automatic trunk closure

- gear shift on the center console to rest my hand on

That’s it. tough to justify going back to ICE. I still haven’t been able to reconcile the looks of the X, so will be interested to see what’s out there from others in the SUV market when I’m done with the Q8. 

 
So after watching the Super Bowl last night you can see it, the market is definitely shifting to electric options - and all the big players are touting their upcoming models. 

Question popped into my head seeing options from all these other carriers - is the Tesla charging network proprietary to their cars in any way?  Are the "plugs" in those chargers only for Teslas, or can they be used on any vehicle (possibly with an adapter)?  And if any battery car is able to use them, I would assume that Tesla would charge more for the electricity than they would charge for one of their own cars?

 
matttyl said:
So after watching the Super Bowl last night you can see it, the market is definitely shifting to electric options - and all the big players are touting their upcoming models. 

Question popped into my head seeing options from all these other carriers - is the Tesla charging network proprietary to their cars in any way?  Are the "plugs" in those chargers only for Teslas, or can they be used on any vehicle (possibly with an adapter)?  And if any battery car is able to use them, I would assume that Tesla would charge more for the electricity than they would charge for one of their own cars?
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They are proprietary, Tesla does not yet allow other vehicles to use there chargers.  I'm not sure how or if they could stop a third party adapter if one was available.  I'm assuming at some point when Electrify America really starts to roll out that Tesla and them will work out a deal.  That seems like years away though so no need for Tesla to remove their significant advantage until they have to.

 
Foosball God said:
They are proprietary, Tesla does not yet allow other vehicles to use there chargers.  I'm not sure how or if they could stop a third party adapter if one was available.  I'm assuming at some point when Electrify America really starts to roll out that Tesla and them will work out a deal.  That seems like years away though so no need for Tesla to remove their significant advantage until they have to.
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EU is expected to step in here 

 
Foosball God said:
They are proprietary, Tesla does not yet allow other vehicles to use there chargers.  I'm not sure how or if they could stop a third party adapter if one was available.  I'm assuming at some point when Electrify America really starts to roll out that Tesla and them will work out a deal.  That seems like years away though so no need for Tesla to remove their significant advantage until they have to.
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So, in theory, in a few years someone with a Tesla would have to find a Tesla specific charging station.  Someone with a new Ford Mach E would have to potentially find a Ford specific charging station - someone with a Leaf would have to find a Nissan specific station? 

 
matttyl said:
So, in theory, in a few years someone with a Tesla would have to find a Tesla specific charging station.  Someone with a new Ford Mach E would have to potentially find a Ford specific charging station - someone with a Leaf would have to find a Nissan specific station? 
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No, not exactly.  Tesla provides an adapter so the their plug will work with most other charging options available.  There is just no adapter that allows the other charging options to use Tesla chargers.

 
Most of the other charging options aren't supplied by a specific manufacturer so they are trying to be flexible enough to be used by multiple manufacturers.  Tesla built its own network, so it is holding the reins there.

 
Foosball God said:
Most of the other charging options aren't supplied by a specific manufacturer so they are trying to be flexible enough to be used by multiple manufacturers.  Tesla built its own network, so it is holding the reins there.
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I would think that Tesla, being quite forward-thinking, had the EU in mind (EU historically loves to sue American companies or force them to bend to their will) when designing the Super Chargers. Where a simple software update to the chargers will allow non-Tesla vehicles to plug in via adapter, as well as quickly retrofitting the SCs with other adapters as needed. 

 
Jobber said:
I would think that Tesla, being quite forward-thinking, had the EU in mind (EU historically loves to sue American companies or force them to bend to their will) when designing the Super Chargers. Where a simple software update to the chargers will allow non-Tesla vehicles to plug in via adapter, as well as quickly retrofitting the SCs with other adapters as needed. 
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Yeah, I don't think it would end up being a big deal, it's just about when they are forced to do it, either via EU regulation or because it just makes sense to have the largest charging base available for it's consumers.

 
proteus126 said:
Seeing shorts rant and rave and knuckle under is even more entertaining imo.  Shorts can tend to lose it when the exuberance of the despised herd puts them in a pickle.  Only a small portion have capitulated, so plenty of good teeth-gnashing and buckshot FUD to come potentially.  Fun stock to watch, both up and down.
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Short slaughter today.

 
So Tesla's market cap is now about 2x total revenue collected for the history of the company.   Makes sense.

Tesla trades like bitcoin.

 
Any 3 owners have any issues with the low ground clearance?  Looks very low, and the Y doesn't look like it's going to be much higher. 

 
I have scraped a few times at the peak of my driveway, but only when the car is weighed down (2 adults and 2 kids). I put in some rubber speed humps to help.

 
PlayaHata said:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/6/21127243/tesla-model-s-autopilot-disabled-remotely-used-car-update

I was seriously considering buying a used Model S for my next car.  This is not cool at all.
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I feel like there is more to the story on this one.  These cars are sold all the time with AP/FSD software that transfers to the new owner.  I've never once heard of Tesla going in and disabling it.  

When I bought mine it was part of their pre existing inventory.  It matched the color and interior I wanted, but had FSD (which was like $6k at the time) so I asked them to remove it and lower the price...which they did.  What happened in this article isn't the norm.  

I have heard the argument that if you do buy the AP/FSD package that it should be like software licensed to you and you should be able to transfer it at no costs.  If I had it and totaled my car it would be nice to remove it from the totaled car and not have to buy it again for the new one.  Not sure that will ever happen, but it would be nice in some circumstances. 

 
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