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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (11 Viewers)

ghostguy123 said:
If he sits out games, how does that affect the salary cap for this year and next?
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Each week, Pitt would have an extra $855K available.  They'd have to have money set aside for Bell, though, as long as they don't rescind the tag.  They have to be able to fit him under the cap if/when he signs.  I'm not sure what happens to next year's cap if he never signs (although I doubt he'd do that) or signs after missing multiple weeks.  I'd assume they'd get to roll those cap savings over, but I'm not positive.

 
ghostguy123 said:
So they can save a lot of cap room for 2019 while still getting Bell for the stretch run and the playoffs (maybe  :ph34r: )?
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Right, but again not sure they' want to alienate him further by exempting him after he shows but reality is if he misses a few games while devastating for some fantasy teams it's really not a big deal IMO for the Steelers. Pay Bell less, Conner and company can carry load a few weeks and might have rested Bell for later.

 
menobrown said:
Steelers gain about $855K per game in cap this year.

Also something I did not know until yesterday. If he reports they can apply for a roster exemption and if granted they can put him on the exemption list for two weeks and actually not play or pay him. The not paying him part I was not aware.

Also should he choose to breeze in right in time to accrue his 6 games the Steelers can't use the roster exemption to try and prohibit him from hitting his 6 games, in case anyone was wondering.
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I'm pretty sure this (the bolded) is inaccurate.  The roster exemption allows them to not pay him, but it doesn't prevent him from accruing the games.  The team, not Bell, are preventing him from playing in that case.  If you have information otherwise, I'd appreciate a link, though.

 
menobrown said:
Because fans are more intelligent then they are often credited and understand how much money there is to go around. Fans don't mind players getting paid, they just tend to not like players getting paid who don't deserve it. Thus fans tend to not like guarantees so much as many of us like to see players earn it year to year, much like the rest of us.
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That is my point. You hold the players to a standard that they should earn it year over year, but don't hold the owners to the same standard. Look at some of these teams the Lions, Jets, Browns, etc. Why should they be worth a record breaking amounts worth of money and be guaranteed a profit year over year despite putting a crappy football team out there year after year?

 
msudaisy26 said:
I can't like this post enough. I have never completely understood why fans side with teams and owners/management over the players. 

Fans seem to think he is making millions, he should be happy and go out there and do his job and take a hometown discount for the team. All while the team is making billions, isn't putting their health on the line and will make a profit no matter how bad they are at their jobs. Example is the Ford family. 
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Obviously the league wants to keep the "help" in line, not limited to keeping rabble like Le'Veon Bell to a minimum. Other than through contracts and CBAs, you do that by calling in to question his character, manhood, toughness and anything else you can.

Case in point, a news snippet recently referred to his hold-out as a "stunt". Sorry but going over Niagara Falls in a barrel is a stunt. This is someone applying the minimal leverage they are afforded under the terms of their employment. I'm not a Bell fan but I did draft him and his vilification is unfortunate - not surprising but unfortunate.

 
rockaction said:
This has been done ad nauseam in these threads. There were no guarantees in that contract, only a ten-fifteen million signing bonus. It was way below market. 
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It may be a well hashed out discussion but not one we agree on as I've been very vocal in my belief they did not try and offer him less guaranteed money then the one year franchise tender.

Also this notion of the guarantees  in year two applies to about 99% of most non rookie NFL contracts. Not sure how this got to be a talking point just because of something Bell's agent said. Check out the  structure of Gurley's contract for example. $45M is the guaranteed number but only $21M was at signing and if they cut him before the third day of the league year they'd owe him no more. This is standard contract language for RB's and most players in the NFL. This is not a guaranteed contract business, at least not till Kirk Cousins reset the rules but those rules have yet to trickle down to the RB position.  The guarantees in this business for RB's is the upfront signing bonus, not the annual pay.

 
Shows up at last possible minute to get paid, hopes they don’t play him saving a games worth of punishment. Makes business decisions all year (hammy is a little sore today coach), very contentious with team and some of the players are pissed because he’s moving beyond trying to get paid and impacting team. Big mess.

Or he shows up at last minute, in game shape. Steelers run him into the ground he’s a stud and has another great season. :lol:  

 
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Bayhawks said:
I'm pretty sure this (the bolded) is inaccurate.  The roster exemption allows them to not pay him, but it doesn't prevent him from accruing the games.  The team, not Bell, are preventing him from playing in that case.  If you have information otherwise, I'd appreciate a link, though.
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That's what I said, re-read it .

 
Bayhawks said:
I'm pretty sure this (the bolded) is inaccurate.  The roster exemption allows them to not pay him, but it doesn't prevent him from accruing the games.  The team, not Bell, are preventing him from playing in that case.  If you have information otherwise, I'd appreciate a link, though.
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He was saying what you are saying.

 
habsfan said:
Obviously the league wants to keep the "help" in line, not limited to keeping rabble like Le'Veon Bell to a minimum. Other than through contracts and CBAs, you do that by calling in to question his character, manhood, toughness and anything else you can.

Case in point, a news snippet recently referred to his hold-out as a "stunt". Sorry but going over Niagara Falls in a barrel is a stunt. This is someone applying the minimal leverage they are afforded under the terms of their employment. I'm not a Bell fan but I did draft him and his vilification is unfortunate - not surprising but unfortunate.
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I think the problem is that the average NFL fan can't identify with a guy that won't report to play football for $900k a game, especially when he tweets about how much he loves playing for the team, city and the fans and gives his word he would report to play week 1.

I understand his situation and don't blame him for using whatever leverage he has to maximize his money.  He is doing what he feels is best for him and that is fine but not everyone is going to sympathize.  

 
msudaisy26 said:
That is my point. You hold the players to a standard that they should earn it year over year, but don't hold the owners to the same standard. Look at some of these teams the Lions, Jets, Browns, etc. Why should they be worth a record breaking amounts worth of money and be guaranteed a profit year over year despite putting a crappy football team out there year after year?
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I don't get your point

 
Godsbrother said:
I think the problem is that the average NFL fan can't identify with a guy that won't report to play football for $900k a game, especially when he tweets about how much he loves playing for the team, city and the fans and gives his word he would report to play week 1.

I understand his situation and don't blame him for using whatever leverage he has to maximize his money.  He is doing what he feels is best for him and that is fine but not everyone is going to sympathize.  
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Nor should they when his word is clearly worth nothing.

 
Godsbrother said:
I think the problem is that the average NFL fan can't identify with a guy that won't report to play football for $900k a game, especially when he tweets about how much he loves playing for the team, city and the fans and gives his word he would report to play week 1.

I understand his situation and don't blame him for using whatever leverage he has to maximize his money.  He is doing what he feels is best for him and that is fine but not everyone is going to sympathize.  
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Anyone unable to identify with it must not understand it.

Would you play for $900k today if you knew the only thing stopping you from making $2 mill (or $50 mill)  tomorrow was an injury?

 
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Bayhawks said:
Then perhaps I'm saying it wrong. 

The Steelers CAN place Bell on roster exempt when he signs, and that allows them to not pay him.  It DOES NOT prevent him from accruing those games towards a "full" season, AFAIK. 

He's saying if he reports for the last 6 games, and they place him on roster exempt status, he only gets credit for 4 games, and they still have control over him next year.  I think this is incorrect.
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No, he was saying what you are saying (the bolded).. try re reading again haha.

 
matuski said:
Anyone unable to identify with it must not understand it.

Would you play for $900k today if you knew the only thing stopping you from making $2 million tomorrow was an injury?
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I don't know what I would do and I think you can have a reasonable disagreement on the answer to this question. Playing less football reduces risk but there's no reliable formula for it. The season-ending injury could come on the next touch or snap, whenever that occurs.

 
matuski said:
Anyone unable to identify with it must not understand it.

Would you play for $900k today if you knew the only thing stopping you from making $2 million tomorrow was an injury?
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Because the $2 million tomorrow isn't guaranteed either (at least right now).   If he shows up today he gets $14.5 million no matter what.   Every week he sits another $900k is subtracted form that.  Eventually he will have to report if he wants to be a UFA next season and when he does he could be injured or just play poorly and that future money is put at risk.   

It looks like he is willing to take that risk which is fine but that $14.5 million for one season is BIG money that he would be passing up.

 
matuski said:
Anyone unable to identify with it must not understand it.

Would you play for $900k today if you knew the only thing stopping you from making $2 mill (or $50 mill)  tomorrow was an injury?
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More like would i play for 15 million today and risk getting only 20 million tomorrow rather than 40 million tomorrow.

Heck even a torn ACL might barely cost him anything next year.

Or, get nothing right now while sitting out and risk one of the hundreds of  bad things that can happen that are non football related with injury/illness/suspension...........or sign now and take 15 million guaranteed with much more to be made in the offseason even with a bad injury.

 
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habsfan said:
I don't know what I would do and I think you can have a reasonable disagreement on the answer to this question. Playing less football reduces risk but there's no reliable formula for it. The season-ending injury could come on the next touch or snap, whenever that occurs.
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Right, but the ONLY way he misses out on the huge payday next year is injury this year.

If the math was making decisions here, he would not show up until the last possible second to reduce the risk as much as possible.

 
At what point is week 1 off the table?  If he reports say Friday, is playing Sunday off the table?  Could he report Sunday morning and still get the $900k for week 1?

 
Godsbrother said:
I think the problem is that the average NFL fan can't identify with a guy that won't report to play football for $900k a game, especially when he tweets about how much he loves playing for the team, city and the fans and gives his word he would report to play week 1.
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That I can understand. Fully. Cynicism operates both ways. Been watching pro sports since I can walk, so about forty years now. I have figured that bit out. Whenever one starts to feel sympathy for the player, they sometimes certainly go and overplay their hand.  

 
Godsbrother said:
Because the $2 million tomorrow isn't guaranteed either (at least right now).   If he shows up today he gets $14.5 million no matter what.   Every week he sits another $900k is subtracted form that.  Eventually he will have to report if he wants to be a UFA next season and when he does he could be injured or just play poorly and that future money is put at risk.   

It looks like he is willing to take that risk which is fine but that $14.5 million for one season is BIG money that he would be passing up.
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If you don't think he will be guaranteed north of $14.5m, then your argument makes sense.  I am assuming he will get a much (MUCH) larger guaranteed number next year.. rendering the $14.5m as a fairly meaningless number in the "reasons to play" column.

 
matttyl said:
At what point is week 1 off the table?  If he reports say Friday, is playing Sunday off the table?  Could he report Sunday morning and still get the $900k for week 1?
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In a normal week Tomlin says you have to practice Friday to get a hat for Sunday.   Not sure what he would do in this case.

 
matuski said:
If you don't think he will be guaranteed north of $14.5m, then your argument makes sense.  I am assuming he will get a much (MUCH) larger guaranteed number next year.. rendering the $14.5m as a fairly meaningless number in the "reasons to play" column.
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That $14.5 guaranteed is on the table now.   Next year I agree he probably gets more but that is not certain and 2018 will be one year of his career that did not maximize his earnings.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Not true at all
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I will repeat the disclaimer I first put out there.

I am assuming a healthy Bell will get a larger guarantee than his franchise number this year.  I'd find it interesting how anyone would think one of the premier payers in the league would get less - scrubs are getting more.

If that is not the case, then this is all moot.

 
Godsbrother said:
That $14.5 guaranteed is on the table now.   Next year I agree he probably gets more but that is not certain and 2018 will be one year of his career that did not maximize his earnings.
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Yes he passes on the $14.5, the cost to ensure his next much larger guarantee (unless he gets hit by a bus or something).

 
matttyl said:
At what point is week 1 off the table?  If he reports say Friday, is playing Sunday off the table?  Could he report Sunday morning and still get the $900k for week 1?
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Holdout Le'Veon Bell remained away from the Steelers for the start of 9 AM meetings Wednesday.

It's not a good sign for Bell's playing status for Week 1 against the Browns. It's tough to envision coach Mike Tomlin throwing Bell out there if he misses part of the practice week, which starts today, especially after being away from the team all summer. James Conner is looking like he'll get the nod right now. Bell has until Saturday afternoon to report in order to get paid for Week 1.
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matuski said:
Yes he passes on the $14.5, the cost to ensure his next much larger guarantee (unless he gets hit by a bus or something).
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Or a serious injury or he performs poorly when he eventually does report this season cause he will have to report at some point.

 
matuski said:
I will repeat the disclaimer I first put out there.

I am assuming a healthy Bell will get a larger guarantee than his franchise number this year.  I'd find it interesting how anyone would think one of the premier payers in the league would get less - scrubs are getting more.

If that is not the case, then this is all moot.
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I think another variable is the extent to which (if any) the way he is doing business this year costs him money next year. Some teams may be wary of (or discount) a player who has proved he is ready to "work to rule". 

 
matuski said:
I will repeat the disclaimer I first put out there.

I am assuming a healthy Bell will get a larger guarantee than his franchise number this year.  I'd find it interesting how anyone would think one of the premier payers in the league would get less - scrubs are getting more.

If that is not the case, then this is all moot.
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Did someone say that a healthy Bell would get less than 14.5 million guaranteed next year???  A Bell coming off a torn ACL would probably still get more than that.

 
Godsbrother said:
In a normal week Tomlin says you have to practice Friday to get a hat for Sunday.   Not sure what he would do in this case.
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But wouldn't that also be under the assumption the player was at least present for all the team meetings, walkthroughs etc?  In other words, a player might be injured and miss out on the participating in the physical side of practices, but still be present otherwise for walk-through, etc. and Tomlin still wants them to physically practice on Friday before getting the nod.  

 
matuski said:
I will repeat the disclaimer I first put out there.

I am assuming a healthy Bell will get a larger guarantee than his franchise number this year.  I'd find it interesting how anyone would think one of the premier payers in the league would get less - scrubs are getting more.

If that is not the case, then this is all moot.
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There isn't a RB making 10 million this year.

https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/2018

 
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matuski said:
Anyone unable to identify with it must not understand it.

Would you play for $900k today if you knew the only thing stopping you from making $2 mill (or $50 mill)  tomorrow was an injury?
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The flip side is why would I pass on $15 million today when the only thing stopping me from making $0 tomorrow is a car wreck or blowing off a couple of fingers with fireworks or shooting myself in the leg.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Did someone say that a healthy Bell would get less than 14.5 million guaranteed next year???  A Bell coming off a torn ACL would probably still get more than that.
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It depends on how well Bell was doing before the injury and how late in the season the injury occurred.  

 
Its weird how people tend to think that injuries are ONLY game related.  We see a dozen non contact training injuries every year.  Mckinnon anyone?  Hell, an illness could cost him all of his future earnings.

In Bells exact situation it makes the most financial sense to report and play right now.  I still think he shows before week 1.  

To me, the risk is NOT signing right now, not the other way around. 

 
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