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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (7 Viewers)

davearm said:
Putting a half-### effort on tape for eternity only hurts their own career.  Wouldn't be too bright.
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We are just going to have to agree to disagree as to the phenomena of offensive lines blocking a bit “harder” for one RB/QB or another. Cheers! :D  

 
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ghostguy123 said:
I am still a little confused on the not "truly" guaranteed thing people have mentioned. 
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Guaranteed means he gets the money.  Full stop.  No qualifiers.

Pitt offered him $10M in guaranteed money.  The rest of the initially reported “guaranteed” monies were “rolling guarantees.” They became guaranteed if Bell was on Pitts roster on a specific day of the league year (5th day, 9th day; something like that).  If Pitt cut Bell before that given date, the “guaranteed” money for that given year wouldn’t be paid.

So, essentially, other than the $10M, the rest of the “guaranteed” money was guaranteed ONLY if the Steelers wanted to pay it (i.e.-NOT really guaranteed).

 
Bayhawks said:
Guaranteed means he gets the money.  Full stop.  No qualifiers.

Pitt offered him $10M in guaranteed money.  The rest of the initially reported “guaranteed” monies were “rolling guarantees.” They became guaranteed if Bell was on Pitts roster on a specific day of the league year (5th day, 9th day; something like that).  If Pitt cut Bell before that given date, the “guaranteed” money for that given year wouldn’t be paid.

So, essentially, other than the $10M, the rest of the “guaranteed” money was guaranteed ONLY if the Steelers wanted to pay it (i.e.-NOT really guaranteed).
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I wish this info would pop up everytime someone new popped into this thread. It's the bottom-line most important point from the Bell POV.

 
LawFitz said:
I wish this info would pop up everytime someone new popped into this thread. It's the bottom-line most important point from the Bell POV.
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Yeah and to be honest, I completely agree with him that that’s a ridiculous offer and I kinda dig the idea of him going to bat against NFL franchises using up RBs and then spitting them out.  I’m surprised at how quickly people line up to support the overarching owners of the league/NFL vs the guys who actually generate the value.

 
davearm said:
Putting a half-### effort on tape for eternity only hurts their own career.  Wouldn't be too bright.
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 In todays NFL these guys aren't going to half ### it due to a grudge.  Maybe 1% of them are scumbags who would do that.

They bust their ### to get to the top level of their profession.  At the end of the day they know it's a business and it's in their best interest to perform at their top level.

 
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massraider said:
I think a Steelers fan should applaud the way they're handling this, for the most part.  Recent history says that throwing huge second deals at RBs is not a great fiscal move.  That's pretty established.

It was also pretty established that the narrative around Bell, for a long time, has been the Steelers are gonna ride him through this year's tag, and let him go.  This has been said for more than a year.  They had a rookie deal, and bearable cap numbers for the best RB in the game for two years.  Let someone else pay for his twilight years, squeeze as much juice out of him as you can in 2018, and call it a day.  That is what I would want my team to do, I don't want them paying this guy 15 mill when he's 31 years old.  Notice you aren't reading any Steelers fan complaining they didn't extend him two years ago.  

Most people are in agreement this is what the plan is, and I think most of that group thinks it's the right move.   You think Bell doesn't have Twitter?  

Don't forget:  BELL IS NOT UNDER CONTRACT.  He's not breaking any agreement.  He dominated for peanuts for years.  He doesn't owe anyone in PIT a damn thing.  

It's like everyone agreed to beat the #### out of the rental car, and can't believe the rental car isn't completely on board.
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[Italics mine].

This whole thing seems like a big test of the devaluation of RBs concept which has been going on for some time. How special are these special RBs in the age of star coordinators and QB supremacy?

I really think Bell has pushed his luck here, but then again let's see how they do without him. And again, Haley is gone, so what can we say about the script changing in any event? Would we ever know?

 
What happens if the Steelers look like crap on offensive this week? Does that change anyone's mind about Bell's worth to the Steelers? What if the Steelers offense looks great? Does Bell hurry up and sign?

 
I imagine that Bell forfeits 1/16 of his salary for each game missed?  That's over 800K.  At this point, is he just minimizing his exposure to injury while he waits for next year?

ETA: Conclusion being he could sit out as many as 10 games and still get credit for the season?

 
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platapie said:
Yeah and to be honest, I completely agree with him that that’s a ridiculous offer and I kinda dig the idea of him going to bat against NFL franchises using up RBs and then spitting them out.  I’m surprised at how quickly people line up to support the overarching owners of the league/NFL vs the guys who actually generate the value.
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100% agree.  This is why a big part of me can’t help but cheer for Bell in this dispute.

Franchise tag amounts are an average of the top players pay at a position so if you look at the list half way down the page at this link you see why Bell and his buddies have a legit beef with RB pay:

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/231112/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-2018-franchise-tag

Just observing the role Bell/Gurley/Kamara type guys play every week, who really values a top NFL RB 3.5 million less per year than a top WR or 1.2 million per year less than a top DT? 

Cheering for Bell in this has gotten me deeper into NFL contracts than I’ve looked before so thanks to @Bayhawks for correcting me above on pay guarantees.  I suddenly understand why you read the phrase “XX million dollars of guarantees” so often now.  Totally different than guaranteed money.

 
LawFitz said:
I wish this info would pop up everytime someone new popped into this thread. It's the bottom-line most important point from the Bell POV.
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I am aware of all of that, I just didn't know how Bell's contract offer was structured.  I didn't know the offers to him were made public.

 
ILUVBEER99 said:
 In todays NFL these guys aren't going to half ### it due to a grudge.  Maybe 1% of them are scumbags who would do that.

They bust their ### to get to the top level of their profession.  At the end of the day they know it's a business and it's in their best interest to perform at their top level.
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It isn't really about that.  It's about motivation.  I tend to think a lot of players are more motivated when they like who they are playing with or playing for.  If everyone's motivation was always the same every time, coaches would never try to motivate anyway, and leaders wouldnt bother speaking. 

 
JoeSteeler said:
I put him on my trade block and was just offered Julio. 16 team PPR dynasty
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FFPC: Someone offered me Bell, Peyton Barber and Rishard Matthews for Zeke. I declined saying "Bell is your problem! :) "

But Bell is MY problem in another dynasty league where I own him. I don't need any more shares of Bell right now, thanks.

 
platapie said:
 I’m surprised at how quickly people line up to support the overarching owners of the league/NFL vs the guys who actually generate the value.
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Is anyone here actually supporting the owners?  Thinking Bell should report means you support the owners?

People want their team to win and watch their favorite players, so they want the player to play.  That's pretty much the entire motivation and passion generating all the responses here.  

It's an entirely different conversation when discussion "value" of players.  People are sometimes trying to have both conversations at the same time and it doesnt work out to well most of the time.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
It isn't really about that.  It's about motivation.  I tend to think a lot of players are more motivated when they like who they are playing with or playing for.  If everyone's motivation was always the same every time, coaches would never try to motivate anyway, and leaders wouldnt bother speaking. 
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Agree there is some psychological factor.  But in the end if Bell shows up they know he's a key piece to their success.  I can't see the o-line giving less effort and sabotaging the team.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Is anyone here actually supporting the owners?  Thinking Bell should report means you support the owners?

People want their team to win and watch their favorite players, so they want the player to play.  That's pretty much the entire motivation and passion generating all the responses here.  

It's an entirely different conversation when discussion "value" of players.  People are sometimes trying to have both conversations at the same time and it doesnt work out to well most of the time.  
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Actually, quite a few (the great majority) are supporting the owners in here. They are saying Bell should report, should tell the team his intentions, play for the tag, whatever.  Regardless of whether it's a deal that's close to market.  Gurley got $45M guaranteed. That's the new benchmark.  Bell was offered $10M guaranteed.  The super repressed RB market is changing.  Leveon is not 30.  He's 26 years old.  Gurley is 24.  Bell has had 8,000 combined yards the last 5 years even with the suspensions and injuries.  The Raiders didn't want to pay Khalil Mack so they traded him to someone who would.  The Steelers should do the same thing with Bell.  Superstars are not for the cheap.

 
If I were him I would report and play. Not because I am the company stooge but because my dad taught me when playing cards you "kill as you go". Play the games and cash the cheques in front of you. The future is the future. Hopefully it involves more $$ for Bell but you can't turn your back on the money in front of you now.

 
DropKick said:
I imagine that Bell forfeits 1/16 of his salary for each game missed?  That's over 800K.  At this point, is he just minimizing his exposure to injury while he waits for next year?

ETA: Conclusion being he could sit out as many as 10 games and still get credit for the season?
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To be a broken record.. the math says play 6 games this year and get to next.

No reason to risk 30/40/50 mill guaranty next year over 8-10 mill this year.

Obviously math is one variable here.. but those numbers tell a fairly compelling and obvious story.

 
habsfan said:
If I were him I would report and play. Not because I am the company stooge but because my dad taught me when playing cards you "kill as you go". Play the games and cash the cheques in front of you. The future is the future. Hopefully it involves more $$ for Bell but you can't turn your back on the money in front of you now.
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The biggest check in front of him is 2019 free agency.

 
Judge Smails said:
Actually, quite a few (the great majority) are supporting the owners in here. They are saying Bell should report, should tell the team his intentions, play for the tag, whatever.  Regardless of whether it's a deal that's close to market.  Gurley got $45M guaranteed. That's the new benchmark.  Bell was offered $10M guaranteed.  The super repressed RB market is changing.  Leveon is not 30.  He's 26 years old.  Gurley is 24.  Bell has had 8,000 combined yards the last 5 years even with the suspensions and injuries.  The Raiders didn't want to pay Khalil Mack so they traded him to someone who would.  The Steelers should do the same thing with Bell.  Superstars are not for the cheap.
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The Steelers should have traded him in the off season. Now they will get a 2nd round pick at best for him. The reason Mack got a better haul is because of the position he plays and he was under team control for at least 2 more years. Last year of his deal and a reasonable franchise tag the following year.

 
Judge Smails said:
Actually, quite a few (the great majority) are supporting the owners in here. They are saying Bell should report, should tell the team his intentions, play for the tag, whatever.  Regardless of whether it's a deal that's close to market.  Gurley got $45M guaranteed. That's the new benchmark.  Bell was offered $10M guaranteed.  The super repressed RB market is changing.  Leveon is not 30.  He's 26 years old.  Gurley is 24.  Bell has had 8,000 combined yards the last 5 years even with the suspensions and injuries.  The Raiders didn't want to pay Khalil Mack so they traded him to someone who would.  The Steelers should do the same thing with Bell.  Superstars are not for the cheap.
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Honestly not sure what ANY of that has to do with the owners.

 
Judge Smails said:
The Raiders didn't want to pay Khalil Mack so they traded him to someone who would.  The Steelers should do the same thing with Bell.  Superstars are not for the cheap.
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Trading Bell is difficult because he's under the tag.  To trade him, he would have to sign and then be traded  - but Bell doesn't want to play for 14.5M this year so the new team would be in the same boat as the Steelers.  Trading for Bell after he signs would be extremely risky.

 
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I am hoping he signs, but I don’t see why he should...waiting a year and coming out with fresh legs and getting a deal under a higher salary is hard to pass up...

 
he's going to wait till week 10..steelers wont pay up.they just wont. they want to run him in to the ground,before he leaves.he knows this.his agent said as much..if he gets hurt he'll lose how much money? a $100mil+ contract evaporates pretty quickly. so better to lose $800k/week than to lose millions and millions and so on..

how many ppl in here would do the exact same thing that he's doing given then same circumstances? everyone would..

steelers have lost the upper hand in this thing - they should've traded him before the draft..and this is why Conner is going to be a hot commodity - today, tomorrow, and value goes thru the roof after sunday. he's their new starting RB and will be til week 10..it doesnt feel like a quick resolution is at hand. Bell's agent is doing well for his client..

 
ghostguy123 said:
Is anyone here actually supporting the owners?  Thinking Bell should report means you support the owners?

People want their team to win and watch their favorite players, so they want the player to play.  That's pretty much the entire motivation and passion generating all the responses here.  

It's an entirely different conversation when discussion "value" of players.  People are sometimes trying to have both conversations at the same time and it doesnt work out to well most of the time.  
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I mainly want my first round pick to play, but I'm on the side of the players getting a bigger piece of the pie. 

 
Rove! said:
I am hoping he signs, but I don’t see why he should...waiting a year and coming out with fresh legs and getting a deal under a higher salary is hard to pass up...
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Lot of assumptions that he doesnt get hurt in the 6 games that he plays

 
Tanner9919 said:
he's going to wait till week 10..steelers wont pay up.they just wont. they want to run him in to the ground,before he leaves.he knows this.his agent said as much..if he gets hurt he'll lose how much money? a $100mil+ contract evaporates pretty quickly. so better to lose $800k/week than to lose millions and millions and so on..

how many ppl in here would do the exact same thing that he's doing given then same circumstances? everyone would..
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What do you mean the Steelers wont pay up?  They can't offer him more money right now.

100 million??  Oh my god no.

And no, I would NOT do what Bell is doing.  I would sign right now.  I actually think MOST people would sign now

 
Tanner9919 said:
steelers wont pay up.they just wont.
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They can't pay more at this point, they just cant.  The Steelers tagged him, for better or for worse, Bell has to choose to play for 14.5M this season, or hold out and play at least 6 games to accrue this year, or force the Steelers to rescind the tag.  Even if the Steelers wanted to pay more at this point they cant.

 
Bell's head may actually explode when David Johnson gets his deal.  The whole Bell saga is like a bad car accident.  I don't want to look at it or see it any more, yet I can't look away. 

 
Rather than read the last 20 pages of this thread, has there been any change in his situation?  He is still missing in action, right?

 
TheWinz said:
Rather than read the last 20 pages of this thread, has there been any change in his situation?  He is still missing in action, right?
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My dopey public friends say he's sitting til week 10.

I didn't draft him but do own Big Ben. Don't feel good about Big Ben playing in a rain storm without Leveon Bell.

 
Steeler said:
They can't pay more at this point, they just cant.  The Steelers tagged him, for better or for worse, Bell has to choose to play for 14.5M this season, or hold out and play at least 6 games to accrue this year, or force the Steelers to rescind the tag.  Even if the Steelers wanted to pay more at this point they cant.
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They actually can.  They can't sign him to a longer term deal, but they can give him a larger 1 year contract.

 
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