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Isaiah Crowell (2 Viewers)

ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi reports each of Terrance West, Ben Tate and Isaiah Crowell will get carries against the Bengals on Thursday, and that the Browns could go with the "hot hand."
Grossi nailed Terrance West being the Browns' leading rusher in Week 9, so his report shouldn't be taken lightly. It means Isaiah Crowell should get work behind West and Ben Tate, and could even get a chance to be Cleveland's leading rusher. Crowell has shown by far the most juice of Kyle Shanahan's three amigos, but has struggled with ball security. West is a high-risk RB2, while Tate is a low-upside RB3. Crowell is a daily-league dart throw who remains worth stashing in 12-14 team leagues.
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:lol:


 
SameSongNDance said:
ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi reports each of Terrance West, Ben Tate and Isaiah Crowell will get carries against the Bengals on Thursday, and that the Browns could go with the "hot hand."
Grossi nailed Terrance West being the Browns' leading rusher in Week 9, so his report shouldn't be taken lightly. It means Isaiah Crowell should get work behind West and Ben Tate, and could even get a chance to be Cleveland's leading rusher. Crowell has shown by far the most juice of Kyle Shanahan's three amigos, but has struggled with ball security. West is a high-risk RB2, while Tate is a low-upside RB3. Crowell is a daily-league dart throw who remains worth stashing in 12-14 team leagues.
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:lol:
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How would you grade his floor/ceiling tonight?

 
VandyMan said:
SameSongNDance said:
ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi reports each of Terrance West, Ben Tate and Isaiah Crowell will get carries against the Bengals on Thursday, and that the Browns could go with the "hot hand."
Grossi nailed Terrance West being the Browns' leading rusher in Week 9, so his report shouldn't be taken lightly. It means Isaiah Crowell should get work behind West and Ben Tate, and could even get a chance to be Cleveland's leading rusher. Crowell has shown by far the most juice of Kyle Shanahan's three amigos, but has struggled with ball security. West is a high-risk RB2, while Tate is a low-upside RB3. Crowell is a daily-league dart throw who remains worth stashing in 12-14 team leagues.
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:lol:
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How would you grade his floor/ceiling tonight?
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I can see anywhere from 1-2 points if CIN gets out to an early lead or someone else gets the hot hand before he even sniffs the field to 10/50/2 if Crow runs well and gets RZ touches like he did earlier in the year. It's the epitome of a crap shoot but due to volume I suspect he'll ultimately finish closer to his floor.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Soulfly3 said:
If they put him in when theyve been in the RZ, they'd have a hell of a lot more TDs
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I was about make fun of you by pointing out how CLE was top 10 in RZ scoring percentage this year but then I realized that they've been bottom 3 over the last three weeks.
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Somehow because their center went down, everyone else forgot how to run block. Nobody is afraid of Hoyer (well except Tampa and Oak)....so there you have it.

So now they are tinkering and f'n around with RB rotation thinking this will spark the run game. OK. I guess we will see.

 
Glad to hear Cowher talk up Crowell as the most explosive RB. Makes the Browns coaching staff look stupid.

 
thatguythere said:
SameSongNDance said:
Soulfly3 said:
If they put him in when theyve been in the RZ, they'd have a hell of a lot more TDs
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I was about make fun of you by pointing out how CLE was top 10 in RZ scoring percentage this year but then I realized that they've been bottom 3 over the last three weeks.
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Somehow because their center went down, everyone else forgot how to run block. Nobody is afraid of Hoyer (well except Tampa and Oak)....so there you have it.

So now they are tinkering and f'n around with RB rotation thinking this will spark the run game. OK. I guess we will see.
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It was a rather big loss, there's no doubt a about it but I agree the drop-off over the last three weeks is still inexcusable. CLE's coaching staff has really been in straight panic mode as it pertains to the run game ever since. I honestly don't care who it is at this point, but they need to figure out who gives them their best bet for production (either West or Crow in all likelihood) and stick with him. They have a winning record for ####s sake but they can't keep this up with 52 rushing yards per game (they are in the company of OAK, SD, TEN and ATL over the past three weeks) :X .

Soulfly3 said:
SameSongNDance said:
Soulfly3 said:
If they put him in when theyve been in the RZ, they'd have a hell of a lot more TDs
Click to expand...
I was about make fun of you by pointing out how CLE was top 10 in RZ scoring percentage this year but then I realized that they've been bottom 3 over the last three weeks.
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I know my Browns
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I'll still find a way.

 
jurb26 said:
JamesTheScot said:
jurb26 said:
WTF is going on here. Have people really forgotten how good Murray was in college. I remember going back and forth on this board with people about how he was a stud and one of the best RBs to come out of college in a while. Then, he had several bad knee injuries and things cooled on him considerably. There was a fear, I mistakenly shared it, that he would never be the same post injury. That he had lost his burst, wiggle and agility. How we are comparing him and Crowell from a talent standpoint is beyond me. Crowell was never in the same realm as Murray. Murray dropped in the draft because of these injury concerns. Here's a major difference though, he was still drafted. In the 3rd round no less. Crowell wasn't drafted at all. So, fine you want to say Crowell fell because of character concers. I'm on board with that to an extent. However, I'm in no way on board with it being the reason he wasn't drafted at all. There are plenty of examples of players with character concerns, many worse than Crowell, that still get drafted. Hell, one such player was drafted at his same position this year.
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I don't think Murray went in the 3rd just because of injury concerns. There were questions about his vision, running style and ability to run through contact. He may have fallen because he looked less impressive at times, particularly his last year in college - which would mean there were questions about his talent. But it's certainly possible that his less than impressive moments may have been due to lingering injuries rather than deficiencies in skill or talent. Wasn't that the exact question with Marquise Lee this last year? Guy looks great at times, but then not so much at others. Is that inconsistency proof of a lack of elite talent, the impact of nagging injuries or instead immaturity and lack of consistent effort?

But we don't know really. So many will hedge and let someone drop a bit. Unless you're the Raiders or Josh McDaniels.

So that's why I say there's an element of hindsight being 20/20 when it comes to Murray. He's producing, so it had to be injuries, right? But he wasn't universally considered a can't miss prospect, much like the guy in front of him, Felix Jones, who was also supposedly long on speed and receiving skill.

But you don't have the benefit of hindsight with Crowell yet. So then why the rush to pigeon hole him in a talent evaluation when his character issues so obviously muddy the water?

Crowell didn't fall from grace at Georgia due to a lack of talent. And for all we know he didn't do better at Alabama State because he thought he was too big for the program and was just biding him time until he could make a run at the NFL. If people want to bang on him for his character concerns, be my guest. But his problem hasn't been a lack of talent.

And I think being the anti-Rudy is something that coaches do not like at all. Who wants a talented guy that dogs it and will pull himself out of games, completely depriving you of his talent, when he gets a bump or bruise? We think of those guys as being soft or having no heart or loyalty. We don't really like those kind of guys, right? Crowell's ASU coaches weren't really singing his praises when he left. Remember that. I think that's what hurt him so much. He gets kicked out of Georgia and then rather than getting scared straight, he thinks he's too cool for small school. Who wants to buy that headache? But that has little to do with his talent.
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We are going to have to agree to disagree here. If you go back and watch Murray as a freshman, early on in his college career I think you will see a different player. A guy with a different burst, lateral agility, explosiveness and dramatic cutting ability. I'm not sure if injuries have reduced that element of his game or it's just and alteration of his style by personal design. He has gained significant weight since then similar to a transformation Portis made in his career. Still, I think he is a different runner now vs then. On top of that there is a huge elephant in the room you still aren't addressing. Murray was drafted. Crowell was not. More often than not guys who aren't drafted do not posses the talent to be drafted, regardless of character. I'd say talent is an issue for Crowell in comparison to Murray without the benefit of hindsight. We don't need hindsight of their performance in the NFL to know one was drafted in the 3rd round despite injury concerns and the other wasn't drafted at all.
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Fine. But are you going to go back and watch Crowell as a freshman too?

You can't be saying that Murray's freshman tape is proof of his talent but Crowell's isn't. That's all I'm trying to say. Crowell was a 5 star recruit out of high school that was given a significant role as a freshman in the SEC. And he played very well in that role. He lost his roster spot at Georgia, not because people over rated his talent, but because he gave a dirty drug test and picked up I think two weapons charges all in his first season.

So when you say "more often than not", that's a true statement. Something being true 51 out of 100 times is more often than not. So the problem is that you are using that to then disqualify every player who isn't drafted even though the statement itself admits that it isn't true every time. That doesn't make sense.

Any UDFA who sticks in the NFL by definition has the talent. And we know that the guys that do get drafted and wash out often don't have the talent or they'd stick. So stop acting like getting drafted is this exact, precise measure of talent. I wouldn't even be responding to your post had you just said something like "I don't know how much talent he has, so I'm just going to play the odds and avoid him." Nothing wrong with that. But you (and others) aren't saying that. You are saying that we should know Crowell isn't talented BECAUSE he wasn't drafted. And that's just a factually incorrect statement to make. Getting drafted or not has never proven whether someone had talent.

So not being drafted doesn't mean you don't have talent, it means people may or may not have underestimated it. Or that things other than your talent are suppressing your draft stock. Once you get your chance in the NFL and make it or fail, then we are closer to actually knowing whether you have talent or not. And Crowell has had success when given the opportunity this year. He also screwed up by putting some balls on the ground. But I think we'd all agree that putting balls on the ground doesn't make you a talentless hack. But it can certainly limit your opportunities to show your talent on the field.

 
SameSongNDance said:
thatguythere said:
SameSongNDance said:
Soulfly3 said:
If they put him in when theyve been in the RZ, they'd have a hell of a lot more TDs
Click to expand...
I was about make fun of you by pointing out how CLE was top 10 in RZ scoring percentage this year but then I realized that they've been bottom 3 over the last three weeks.
Click to expand...
Somehow because their center went down, everyone else forgot how to run block. Nobody is afraid of Hoyer (well except Tampa and Oak)....so there you have it.

So now they are tinkering and f'n around with RB rotation thinking this will spark the run game. OK. I guess we will see.
Click to expand...

It was a rather big loss, there's no doubt a about it but I agree the drop-off over the last three weeks is still inexcusable. CLE's coaching staff has really been in straight panic mode as it pertains to the run game ever since. I honestly don't care who it is at this point, but they need to figure out who gives them their best bet for production (either West or Crow in all likelihood) and stick with him. They have a winning record for ####s sake but they can't keep this up with 52 rushing yards per game (they are in the company of OAK, SD, TEN and ATL over the past three weeks) :X .


Soulfly3 said:
SameSongNDance said:
Soulfly3 said:
If they put him in when theyve been in the RZ, they'd have a hell of a lot more TDs
Click to expand...
I was about make fun of you by pointing out how CLE was top 10 in RZ scoring percentage this year but then I realized that they've been bottom 3 over the last three weeks.
Click to expand...
I know my Browns
Click to expand...
I'll still find a way.
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He'll lead the carries tonite and win the starting job, outright.

There's our line in the sand

 
Soulfly3 said:
A little birdy told me Crowell is gonna get some "prove it" carries tonight.

Im expecting 5-10, based on that. I wont be starting him, but if he crushes those carries, may they ride him like lightening.

Again, THE best runner on my damn Browns.
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Crow vs. Hill tonight, i love it.
 
Probably nothing to this, but just for fun I'll post it anyway...

Crowell has 4 rushing touchdowns...2 on the road, 2 at home. At least one touchdown in every division game, none in non-division games.

Enjoy.

 
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West running too good tonight for Crowell to take the job... For now

But its safe to say Tate is a nobody in this offense anymore. Guy is no more than a 1yd back... TD or not

 
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SameSongNDance said:
Soulfly3 said:
A little birdy told me Crowell is gonna get some "prove it" carries tonight.

Im expecting 5-10, based on that. I wont be starting him, but if he crushes those carries, may they ride him like lightening.

Again, THE best runner on my damn Browns.
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Yeah, twitter tells me things too.
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ya too bad no one could predict that west would be the man tonight.

 
Soulfly3 said:
West running too good tonight for Crowell to take the job... For now

But its safe to say Tate is a nobody in this offense anymore. Guy is no more than a 1yd back... TD or not
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Yep, West looking better than in recent weeks. I'd like to see how Crow looks with his own series tonight.

 
Rimez said:
Soulfly3 said:
Rimez said:
njherdfan said:
He's clearly so much more talented than West or Tate. The balance, the acceleration, etc.
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the hands on the hips and totally gassed after 3 carries, then falling down without contact ;)
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:lol:

perfect recollection of events
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haha im just salty cuz i had to start west, and now asiata crowell is stealing all his carries lol.
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While I agree Crowell pops more than the other two, that was a spot on descriptive of what happened. Crowell definitely appeared gassed after those few carries.

 
This is likely to go back & fourth for awhile. One guy will get a good run, then the other will, but Crowell is another level. West is a pretty good prospect, though. Tate might be their 3rd RB at this point.

 
SayWhat? said:
Rimez said:
Soulfly3 said:
Rimez said:
njherdfan said:
He's clearly so much more talented than West or Tate. The balance, the acceleration, etc.
Click to expand...
the hands on the hips and totally gassed after 3 carries, then falling down without contact ;)
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:lol:

perfect recollection of events
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haha im just salty cuz i had to start west, and now asiata crowell is stealing all his carries lol.
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While I agree Crowell pops more than the other two, that was a spot on descriptive of what happened. Crowell definitely appeared gassed after those few carries.
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Crow appeared to injure something on his lower body. He was wincing. It likely happened when he made the cut outside on his last carry.

I definitely don't think he was gassed.

 
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Thanks me, guys, for finally cutting him last night.

I don't even has a shirt to point to.

And it is cold up here.

 
All 3 guys are doing well tonight, but F this... seriously.

No flow at all for these RBs to get into. In, make a few nice runs, out... This might work tonight, but over the course of a season, NO. Over the course of the last 3 games, NO.

 
Soulfly3 said:
All 3 guys are doing well tonight, but F this... seriously.

No flow at all for these RBs to get into. In, make a few nice runs, out... This might work tonight, but over the course of a season, NO. Over the course of the last 3 games, NO.
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RBBC has been taken to a entirely new level this year by teams like CLE, ATL, BAL, STL and etc. They will learn of diminishing returns and cut this crap eventually IMO.

 
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