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QB Aaron Rodgers, NYJ (2 Viewers)

cstu said:
9. Brett Favre

A body of work counts, and besides one Super Bowl win, he holds all significant career passing records — at least until Peyton starts breaking them in the next year or two.
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He had a great 4-5 year run but was a compiler for the rest of his career.
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Starting 297 consecutive games in the NFL is hardly "compiling". His last two seasons were certainly more than anyone wanted but suiting up that many games is impressive.

 
TenTimes said:
Imagine being a Packer fan born in '84. Favre gets going when you're about 10 and you've seen he or Rodgers lead your team your entire life, that's all.
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Better yet, Packer fans born mid-60's got Dickey-Majik-Favre-Rodgers. There may have been a few Randy Wright starts in there, but we can ignore those and just marvel at this stellar run of all-galactic quarterbacks right there.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
TenTimes said:
Imagine being a Packer fan born in '84. Favre gets going when you're about 10 and you've seen he or Rodgers lead your team your entire life, that's all.
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Better yet, Packer fans born mid-60's got Dickey-Majik-Favre-Rodgers. There may have been a few Randy Wright starts in there, but we can ignore those and just marvel at this stellar run of all-galactic quarterbacks right there.
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This

 
CletiusMaximus said:
TenTimes said:
Imagine being a Packer fan born in '84. Favre gets going when you're about 10 and you've seen he or Rodgers lead your team your entire life, that's all.
Click to expand...
Better yet, Packer fans born mid-60's got Dickey-Majik-Favre-Rodgers. There may have been a few Randy Wright starts in there, but we can ignore those and just marvel at this stellar run of all-galactic quarterbacks right there.
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Almost as good as the run of QBs my Jets have had.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
TenTimes said:
Imagine being a Packer fan born in '84. Favre gets going when you're about 10 and you've seen he or Rodgers lead your team your entire life, that's all.
Click to expand...
Better yet, Packer fans born mid-60's got Dickey-Majik-Favre-Rodgers. There may have been a few Randy Wright starts in there, but we can ignore those and just marvel at this stellar run of all-galactic quarterbacks right there.
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The joke on Night Court in '85, Roz: You've been in a coma for the past 20 years? Wanna bet on the Green Bay Packers?

 
zoonation said:
He is the purest passer I've ever seen. Lightning release that is deadly accurate.

Best today for sure. But he also has some serious weapons.
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He has a good supporting cast. He has a really good WR1 in Nelson and a really good WR2 in Cobb. He has solid young WR prospects behind those two. He has a good lead RB in Lacy and a solid backup RB in Starks. And a bunch of average TEs.

But it's not like Warner's supporting cast in St. Louis or Peyton's in Indy or Denver. Or Elway's in his Super Bowl years. Or Brady's for at least a few of his seasons. Or Montana's. Or Young's. Etc.

Rodgers has a good coach, too. But so have most of the great QBs.

Put it this way. Does anyone think McCarthy is a HOF coach? He could get there, but he's not close right now. Does anyone think any of the players around Rodgers right now are headed to the HOF? No. Brady, Peyton, Warner, Elway, Montana, Young, and most other all time great QBs played with better support.

Interestingly, Favre is one of the all time greats who didn't really play with a strong supporting cast for most of his career. It is natural to compare the two, and obviously Rodgers compares favorably on passing numbers, though I do think there is a difference in era even between them that helps Rodgers.

 
TenTimes said:
Furthermore.. are Favre/Rodgers the best back to back QB tandem a team has ever seen?

Montana/Young?

Peyton/Luck (with 1 year of suck for Luck in between)?

Carter/Testeverde?

Imagine being a Packer fan born in '84. Favre gets going when you're about 10 and you've seen he or Rodgers lead your team your entire life, that's all.
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As a Vikings fan born in 83, yea it sucks.
 
KingPrawn said:
Sabertooth said:
Luck is the only one close. I think if you did a redraft of the whole NFL it has to go Rodgers, Luck, Watt.
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Luck is already in the discussion of best of all time?
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No. Read the OP. This isn't a discussion of the GOAT. Not for career anyway. This was originally a discussion about the absolute top level a player has ever played at during his prime. I think Luck has a chance to get as good as Rodgers is right now. Better than Brady or Manning or Marino has ever played for a season. For a game.

I think what the OP was getting at is that if you had to have a player win you a game at any point during the history of the NFL, Aaron at age 30 is the best.

My post was kind of confusing. I meant Luck has a chance to do what Rodgers is doing right now or better. Who knows, you might see the NFL put flags on QBs in the future. At that point, all bets are off.

 
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Sabertooth said:
I think what the OP was getting at is that if you had to have a player win you a game at any point during the history of the NFL, Aaron at age 30 is the best.
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I'll still take either in their prime Brady or Montana in crunch time.

"Who is the greatest" is a subjective question that's impossible to answer with a definitive.

There's no question, however, that Rodgers is in the discussion.

I'm so glad that the Vikings bypassed him TWICE to select Troy Williamson and Erasmus James. :mellow:

 
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32 Counter Pass said:
If Rodgers wins a couple more Super Bowls he will be at the head of the conversation, for sure.
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My thought as well.

When the "greatest QB" arguments are made, there are guys that have the stats, and the guys that have the rings... very few (if any) have both.

 
Dizzy said:
32 Counter Pass said:
If Rodgers wins a couple more Super Bowls he will be at the head of the conversation, for sure.
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My thought as well.

When the "greatest QB" arguments are made, there are guys that have the stats, and the guys that have the rings... very few (if any) have both.
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There should be some consideration that there are A) More teams nowadays and B) The competition is far more balanced with the salary cap.

The 60s Packers and 70s Steelers could never happen again because no team nowadays can retain more than a handful of all-pro studs - and those teams had 6-8 of them each.

I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that the three Dallas Super Bowl wins in 4 years was just as if not more impressive than the Steelers winning 4 in 6 years, given the former team's lack ability to retain players.

 
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GOAT discussions have many criteria, but Rodgers will get hurt by not starting until later in his career vs Peyton/luck/etc from day 1.

 
tdmills said:
GOAT discussions have many criteria, but Rodgers will get hurt by not starting until later in his career vs Peyton/luck/etc from day 1.
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If he keeps averaging 40 TD's he could pass Favre in 7 years.

More importantly for him will be winning another Super Bowl.

 
tdmills said:
GOAT discussions have many criteria, but Rodgers will get hurt by not starting until later in his career vs Peyton/luck/etc from day 1.
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Other than total stats being possibly lower...how does that hurt Rodgers?

I think his stat accumlation has still been quite good and if he plays 9 more years he will be up there in total stats.

Favre didn't start from day 1 either and it has not hurt his stats or status.

 
GOAT and 'best' are not the same thing iMO. GOAT is accomplishment-based. 'Best' is pure skill and acumen.

For instance Manning is a better QB than Brady. Brady has greater accomplishments.

 
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sho nuff said:
tdmills said:
GOAT discussions have many criteria, but Rodgers will get hurt by not starting until later in his career vs Peyton/luck/etc from day 1.
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Other than total stats being possibly lower...how does that hurt Rodgers?

I think his stat accumlation has still been quite good and if he plays 9 more years he will be up there in total stats.

Favre didn't start from day 1 either and it has not hurt his stats or status.
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I didn't mention favre, I mentioned Peyton.

I'm talking total stats because that's generally what comes up in goat discussions. They don't talk about Terrell Davis' basically 4 year career.

Peyton is 38, Rodgers is 31.

Peyton has 527 TD, 68,874 yards

Arod has 223 TD, 27,849 yards

Lets say Peyton retires after this season. It would take 8 straight seasons of 5,000 yards and 40td to break his records. That's without any injuries, which arod/Peyton/Brady have all had.

I think Rodgers has put up 2 of the better qb seasons of all time or at least in the discussion.

 
mr roboto said:
GOAT and 'best' are not the same thing iMO. GOAT is accomplishment-based. 'Best' is pure skill and acumen.

For instance Manning is a better QB than Brady. Brady has greater accomplishments.
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It's subjective and that's your definition. One could argue accomplishments are stats or the result of the team/luck etc.

 
tdmills said:
mr roboto said:
GOAT and 'best' are not the same thing iMO. GOAT is accomplishment-based. 'Best' is pure skill and acumen.

For instance Manning is a better QB than Brady. Brady has greater accomplishments.
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It's subjective and that's your definition. One could argue accomplishments are stats or the result of the team/luck etc.
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Sure. It's easier to discuss in individual sports like golf. Tiger is the best golfer. Ever. Jack is the GOAT. Jack happens to be the second best golfer ever. Tiger is the second GOAT. Marino was one of the best QBs ever. Aikman accomplished greater things. Because football is more of a team sport it's more difficult.

 
Rodgers has played the best at his position over his career than anyone. Ever. Like statistically and efficiently. Then there's the eye test. He's a machine.

Of course this is disregarding historic eras, rules etc. So maybe he isn't truly the 'best' QB ever. But unfortunately you can't take Starr and turn him into a 27 year old and put him in the NFL today.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Sabertooth said:
I think what the OP was getting at is that if you had to have a player win you a game at any point during the history of the NFL, Aaron at age 30 is the best.
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I'll still take either in their prime Brady or Montana in crunch time.

"Who is the greatest" is a subjective question that's impossible to answer with a definitive.

There's no question, however, that Rodgers is in the discussion.

I'm so glad that the Vikings bypassed him TWICE to select Troy Williamson and Erasmus James. :mellow:
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Dolphins could have got him at #2...but the brilliant Nick Saban took a part time RB in from Auburn named Ronnie Brown.

Anyway. I agree with you Andy. It is impossible to proclaim any QB as the all time best. too many different factors. I rather rank the decades. I think that can paint a better picture. The rule changes today's QB's have the luxury of playing with are ridiculous. WR's are running free.

But Rodgers is special. Very special. And I can easily say I would take him over anyone else in the league today. That includes Brady and Peyton.

 
GOAT is not just accomplishments. Or, rather, 'accomplishments' is not precise enough. GOAT is primarily about a combination of statistics, honors/awards, and winning, all of which can be viewed as accomplishments. Different people will weight those elements differently, but that is essentially what it comes down to.

And context (e.g., rules, supporting cast, etc.) matters to some degree, as does media popularity.

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
I Am the Stig said:
Raider Nation said:
Better late than never, Bloom. :coffee:

Sigmund Bloom ‏@SigmundBloom

Is Aaron Rodgers having the greatest QB season of all-time? There's definitely an argument that he is. Numbers are astounding
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Numbers are both inflated and astounding.The interceptions is most telling to me though.
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The worst part is that if it werent for tipped/ batted balls he wouldnt have any picks this season
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Tipped passes are usually thrown high but point taken.
 
Todem said:
Andy Dufresne said:
Sabertooth said:
I think what the OP was getting at is that if you had to have a player win you a game at any point during the history of the NFL, Aaron at age 30 is the best.
Click to expand...
I'll still take either in their prime Brady or Montana in crunch time.

"Who is the greatest" is a subjective question that's impossible to answer with a definitive.

There's no question, however, that Rodgers is in the discussion.

I'm so glad that the Vikings bypassed him TWICE to select Troy Williamson and Erasmus James. :mellow:
Click to expand...
Dolphins could have got him at #2...but the brilliant Nick Saban took a part time RB in from Auburn named Ronnie Brown.

Anyway. I agree with you Andy. It is impossible to proclaim any QB as the all time best. too many different factors. I rather rank the decades. I think that can paint a better picture. The rule changes today's QB's have the luxury of playing with are ridiculous. WR's are running free.

But Rodgers is special. Very special. And I can easily say I would take him over anyone else in the league today. That includes Brady and Peyton.
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He's clearly the best in the league right now and I don't think it's close.

 
Best ever......not sure about that, but if Rodgers keeps up this kind of play for another 5 or so years.........you can definitely make that argument.

But he's definitely the best in the league right now. Easily.

 
I Am the Stig said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
I Am the Stig said:
Raider Nation said:
Better late than never, Bloom. :coffee:

Sigmund Bloom ‏@SigmundBloom

Is Aaron Rodgers having the greatest QB season of all-time? There's definitely an argument that he is. Numbers are astounding
Click to expand...
Numbers are both inflated and astounding.The interceptions is most telling to me though.
Click to expand...
The worst part is that if it werent for tipped/ batted balls he wouldnt have any picks this season
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Tipped passes are usually thrown high but point taken.
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Sure...I think his point was just the interesting thing that even his INTs have hit his WRs in the hands first.

 
mr roboto said:
Rodgers has played the best at his position over his career than anyone. Ever. Like statistically and efficiently. Then there's the eye test. He's a machine.

Of course this is disregarding historic eras, rules etc. So maybe he isn't truly the 'best' QB ever. But unfortunately you can't take Starr and turn him into a 27 year old and put him in the NFL today.
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But what if you could?

 
Run It Up said:
mr roboto said:
Rodgers has played the best at his position over his career than anyone. Ever. Like statistically and efficiently. Then there's the eye test. He's a machine.

Of course this is disregarding historic eras, rules etc. So maybe he isn't truly the 'best' QB ever. But unfortunately you can't take Starr and turn him into a 27 year old and put him in the NFL today.
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But what if you could?
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He'd be studying Rodgers.

 
The real question is what happens when the Monstars decide that american football is the one true sport? Who's going to step up, I think we all know deep down that it will take some sort of four QB voltron - and all four of those QBs are Phillip Rivers.

Edit, seriously, last QB I would ever wanna fight with.

 
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I Am the Stig said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
I Am the Stig said:
Raider Nation said:
Better late than never, Bloom. :coffee:

Sigmund Bloom ‏@SigmundBloom

Is Aaron Rodgers having the greatest QB season of all-time? There's definitely an argument that he is. Numbers are astounding
Click to expand...
Numbers are both inflated and astounding.The interceptions is most telling to me though.
Click to expand...
The worst part is that if it werent for tipped/ batted balls he wouldnt have any picks this season
Click to expand...
Tipped passes are usually thrown high but point taken.
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3 INTs, you can make the argument that one of them was leading his receiver too far -- but two of them were good throws that were mishandled by receivers.

GIFs of each:

https://imgur.com/a/Hy8Rh

 
He's not even in the conversation until he wins another Superbowl. It's all laid out right in front of him this year. He's got home field and the #1 seed locked up, he is 100% healthy, his team is unbelievably healthy, and he's in his prime playing the best he's ever played. If he doesn't win the Superbowl this season, no way you can call him the greatest all time.

 
General Tso said:
He's not even in the conversation until he wins another Superbowl. It's all laid out right in front of him this year. He's got home field and the #1 seed locked up, he is 100% healthy, his team is unbelievably healthy, and he's in his prime playing the best he's ever played. If he doesn't win the Superbowl this season, no way you can call him the greatest all time.
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Wow...just wow.

 
Is winning one of those immeasurables? Or is it conveniently just a team statistic that doesn't matter to this discussion.

Is it 'best QB' ever or 'best passer' ever?

 
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Run It Up said:
Is winning one of those immeasurables? Or is it conveniently just a team statistic that doesn't matter to this discussion.

Is it 'best QB' ever or 'best passer' ever?
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I think winning the Super Bowls does matter but getting to them counts too. If he goes to two more but doesn't win either, like Manning I think he'll be considered top three all time. But he has to get to the show to be considered anything but a great passer.

 
Title edited to make what is being debated perfectly clear. My fault if it was confusing, but I already clarified it five times.

 
General Tso said:
He's not even in the conversation until he wins another Superbowl. It's all laid out right in front of him this year. He's got home field and the #1 seed locked up, he is 100% healthy, his team is unbelievably healthy, and he's in his prime playing the best he's ever played. If he doesn't win the Superbowl this season, no way you can call him the greatest all time.
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Wait, I didn't realize the Packers already had the #1 seed locked up with 3 games to play yet. What did I miss?

 
Alex P Keaton said:
General Tso said:
He's not even in the conversation until he wins another Superbowl. It's all laid out right in front of him this year. He's got home field and the #1 seed locked up, he is 100% healthy, his team is unbelievably healthy, and he's in his prime playing the best he's ever played. If he doesn't win the Superbowl this season, no way you can call him the greatest all time.
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Wait, I didn't realize the Packers already had the #1 seed locked up with 3 games to play yet. What did I miss?
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You get the point - if they win out they are heavy heavy favorites to get the #1 seed, and they face Buffalo, Tampa and Detroit. It's all right there in front of them, for the taking.Or, put in simpler terms, with three games left the overwhelming favorite in Vegas right now to win the Superbowl is the Packers, at 5-2. Next closest is New England at 7-2.

I'm not knocking Rodgers. He's playing great football right now. But this is the only year in the last three where he is the best QB. He missed half of last year and the year before he was good, but not the best. But he's the best QB this year, by a wide margin.

There's a big jump from a great QB season to GOAT. Rodgers has a ways to go before that. And For starters he has to finish the deal this season. Like I said earlier, he's had everything break his way this year. The Packers have had an incredible run of luck with virtually no key injuries to skill players. Odds are they will encounter some trials and tribulations before all is said and done. He will be tested at some point. And how Rodgers handles that adversity will go a long way toward writing his legacy. I don't know yet that he's a big time clutch player.

 
I'm really looking forward to watching how he fares against one of the NFL's top defenses on the road. The Bills lead the league in sacks and pressures, so we will see if that o-line can keep it up--they have been playing at such a high level.

 
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