East Coast Bias
Footballguy
Matthews is out. Get this thread going again.
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WR Corey Davis, Retired (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Dropped him this week, 120-2 game coming up
GoBirds
Footballguy
Nah he's special as is Taywan. Taywan was excellent in preseason and we saw tons to look for in the future. Davis was beastly college like in week one. If you watch either it's like what the flying did the Titans do to them? They were so promising!!! It's upsetting, but that each showed it at the NFL level.
I don't know what happened to Davis or why Taywan has been so scrutinized he barely plays but...they've got an offseason to figure that out.
This is nothing like Hunter, DGB, Britt, or Sharpe. Eons better IMO and I have far too much experience with bust WRs
-OZ-
Footballguy
If you're able to get Davis for the 1.09 or 10, that's both great value and an indication that your league mate gives up on talent way too quickly.
I have the 1.04 in one league and will probably look into as package with Davis and the 4 being the key parts. I'll probably want something with Davis but not much.
msommer
Footballguy
I would think it is exactly the same as the Sharpe situation. Shows promise, hits issues, coaching does nothing to improve performance.
The coaching is ineffectual it seems. Still. Regardless of the turnover on the coach side.
I don't know why that is.
But perhaps we should start by getting rid of the principal holdover on the offensive side from the Whisenhunt Era that famously got nothing out of Britt and Hunter - Mike Mularkey
-OZ-
Footballguy
Except that Davis was the much better prospect coming out of college. That doesn't always hold up but the dude has more talent than Sharpe.
msommer
Footballguy
Sure. Not disputing that.
But somehow they take prospects and make them nobodies.
Despite in some cases early success
Or Jason Michael or both, sure. I don't think Mularkey leaves but a new OC and some stern sort of reminder he has one year left on his contract. Yeah we've talked of horrible WR development before.
During Sharpe's best days, I saw a slot WR that could catch anything. I never saw special outside WR qualities. I think I said maybe someday he could replace Matthews and be more complete outside. My what the heck moment with him was that he led NCAA in catches and caught everything in the summer then was plagued by drops a few weeks into his rookie year. How did a guy that could catch a bebe suddenly have drops issues?
Taywan was compared to ODB and Brown by Greg Cosell. He runs his routes the same way where it seems like he's running his fastest but just before the pass comes, he can shift into another gear and that almost always creates separation. He's not big where he can use his body like a basketball player, but that route running speed trick is so effective. His cuts were very sharp and the Titans complimented him. He was praised as a student and learned all three positions which is wow for a rookie in his first camp. He did very well against very good cornerbacks this summer. After being the only spark the offense had in a couple games, he has been benched for a drop or a poor route in more games than he's finished. He's like the only Titan held to perfection. I am in favor of this coaching move but ya gotta let the guy come back in and prove he learned his lesson and does things right. Without the last step I don't think it does anything but wreck confidence. The Titans would ultimately use him as a guy to run a reverse and to go deep. That's so limiting and predictable it's maddening.
I liked the Davis to TO comparisons. I really liked how he used his arms/strength and how he used his big frame. Without a doubt that guy can play in the post in hoops. Defenders have to fight for position and it's sort of slow when a guy uses his body well, so when Davis turned on his speed it made him very difficult to cover. I felt like I could see that whether it's size, strength, or speed, CBs are gonna have their hands full with Davis. When he returned, Cosell? footballdoc on twitter? someone pointed out he is playing like a guy recovering from achilles surgery. That fit so well. The explosion was gone. You do get explosion from your hammy but for whatever reason we never discuss it like that. Robiskie never has him run with like a lob pass coming or anything where he can body defenders. About his only good route without explosion is a simple curl. Everything else he can't get separation on. It's possible they should have shut him down or played him less or something and been honest about the explosion. The Titans trainers or the mascot guy in the Rome/Greece era outfit (Professional weight lifter and trainer in TEN) probably know how to teach strength in the legs and get that back. There's something here like did you even consult the medical staff? Or just here he's capable of playing? There have been a couple high passes and he barely outleaps a small corner. Those legs are not right. I don't know exactly what's wrong but geesh his poor ups are painful to watch. He IS getting experience. I can just hope that it's useful in 2018. The Titans are littered with guys that take awesome care of their bod so I'm pretty confident that whomever the rook befriends and works out with will have him plenty strong by next year. They got Henry looking like he can squat a house on his shoulders, Walker doing some weird workout with sleds and weights, Rishard using hills, Mariota using water workouts, and Orakpo obsessed with nutrition...there are so many good possibilities for him to spend his offseason with. I'm confident he'll return strong and "as advertised" physique wise.
What I want for he and Taylor (and I guess the rest of the Titans) is a coach or coordinator that will make the offense to their strengths. I don't want this TE based square peg round hole thinking. They're supposed to adjust to suit personnel and despite words to the contrary, they really haven't. They're playing Jonnu like Stevens, Murray runs into the line like Andrews, and the 4 yard crossing routes are vintage Kendall. Most pathetic is that there are a lot of games that Mariota's athleticism isn't used and ya gotta wonder if it's Locker, Mett, or Cassel type of usage. That GM that said they're using a rolls royce like a jalopy was so "dead on accurate."
Another WR worth discussing is Decker. All summer, when healthy, he was used opposite Matthews. His career has some excellent work outside where he utilizes his body and the sideline very very well. Those fit perfectly- how the Titans used him and what he did well previously. They often use him in the slot now running a slant or outside running a curl route. That's more square peg round hole. Let him do what he does well!
I got full confidence this happens.
He did not participate in off-season practices, he only got in about a week of training camp and then was not able to practice for about a month and half once the season started. These things actually matter to most rookie WR's, especially one taking a big jump up in comp.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
JRob has this "my guy" mentality that some GMs have. Their prior GMs didn't really. Their ridiculous faith that Dodd isn't a bust and keeping Williams over the guy that beat him out show this pretty well. Muhammad was a horrible pick- third down back that was pulled in college on third down because he couldn't pickup the blitz nor catch well. Even after being OMG bad in camp and falling behind three UDFAs, he's on the PS. I'm not sure if I like when GMs have this mindset, but as long as Davis and Taywan were his picks I'm confident they'll make changes with hopes of helping them.
Frisman Jackson is their WR coach and he wasn't much of an NFL WR nor did he coach WRs well previously. Robiskie got a total "whoever you want" in hiring him. Pretty sure Frisman is gone
Zyphros
Footballguy
Sure he'll get a 2nd year jump with a full offseason and all but this is not the issue. Doesn't matter how old Delanie gets, the offensive scheme centers on him, for whatever stupid reason. At this point Mariota isn't as good as advertised, their offense is vanilla and uncreative AF, and that whole team wants to "smash mouth" when the RB's aren't as good as they'd hoped. Either way, that team as a whole under performed one hell of a lot compared to hype and it's mostly on the coaches to me. Hopefully that changes in the offseason cause I actually do like a few of their offensive players but they don't strike me as a team that will fire the coaches.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I guess I didn't get the context of the line "especially with Delanie Walker another year older and Davis hoarding targets. ". Felt like you meant someone else was being overlooked because of that and would be a bargain next year.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Those are my fears. If this is a TE-philosophy issue then they will just find someone else - Jonnu Smith looks the part and there are some more stud TE's coming in 2018 draft. And until Mariotta starts making more plays and converting more first downs they will have limited offensive plays to run - and the biggest key to FF is the size of the pie. They are 22nd in 3rd down attempts, 26th in turnover margin (-7), and 27th in offensive plays run. That's a bad combo for us.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Based on what I am hearing in here and how the WRs have failed to develop under Mularkey, I think there needs to be an organizational change.
The things they are doing on offense seem to be stunting Mariottas development as well.
What is the point of making the trade they did, acquiring bonus draft capital, using a large amount of that draft capital to upgrade the offense around Mariota and then just waste it and not develop it?
Giving the ball to Murray is not helping Mariota.
I agree with what Bri is saying about this being a long term problem. They have had good WR who have not panned out before. At some point you have to recognize that these WR are pretty good players, but they need a coaching and opportunity to becomes successful. You aren't going to get that as long as the offense is still built around running the ball and dumping it off to the TE. They need an offense that is built around MM and the receivers, but I don't see that happening as long as Mularkey is in charge.
The Titans may be a playoff team and thus saving Mularkeys job.
I don't think Mularkey is as bad as Jeff FIsher, but I do think a coaching change could produce some tangible changes and results that would be better for this team and their players in the long run. I don't think MM and the receivers are getting better, and part of that is the coaching philosophy and as Bri says, a square peg for a round hole instead of changing the offense to suit the new personnel.
I mean they have good offensive line. Why not spread the ball out more with 3 and 4 receiver seats? Let MM do his thing with more space to work with and an offense he has been successful in before coming to the Titans?
Instead what has happened is Mariota is taught to play under center, hand the ball off, some zone read stuff and play action. None of these things is really what he showed he was good at as a prospect, and that is the square peg round hole. They haven't taken advantage of what MM is good at.
Not saying MM doesn't need to learn to play under center and all that either, but he isn't being set up for success in my view and the receivers are not being set up for success either.
I don't think the offensive philosophy fits the defense very well either. I think the defense still needs some defensive backs and likely some outside pass rush upgrades as well, but I think the defense as is would be more effective playing with a lead and being able to blitz more instead of playing close games and needing to play more zone and passive defense.
It all comes back to the head coach. I think he is holding the teams development back and a new coach willing to build the offense and rest of the team around Mariotta and the strength they have at WR now makes more sense than keeping a coach who tries to turn every players into a TE.
The things they are doing on offense seem to be stunting Mariottas development as well.
What is the point of making the trade they did, acquiring bonus draft capital, using a large amount of that draft capital to upgrade the offense around Mariota and then just waste it and not develop it?
Giving the ball to Murray is not helping Mariota.
I agree with what Bri is saying about this being a long term problem. They have had good WR who have not panned out before. At some point you have to recognize that these WR are pretty good players, but they need a coaching and opportunity to becomes successful. You aren't going to get that as long as the offense is still built around running the ball and dumping it off to the TE. They need an offense that is built around MM and the receivers, but I don't see that happening as long as Mularkey is in charge.
The Titans may be a playoff team and thus saving Mularkeys job.
I don't think Mularkey is as bad as Jeff FIsher, but I do think a coaching change could produce some tangible changes and results that would be better for this team and their players in the long run. I don't think MM and the receivers are getting better, and part of that is the coaching philosophy and as Bri says, a square peg for a round hole instead of changing the offense to suit the new personnel.
I mean they have good offensive line. Why not spread the ball out more with 3 and 4 receiver seats? Let MM do his thing with more space to work with and an offense he has been successful in before coming to the Titans?
Instead what has happened is Mariota is taught to play under center, hand the ball off, some zone read stuff and play action. None of these things is really what he showed he was good at as a prospect, and that is the square peg round hole. They haven't taken advantage of what MM is good at.
Not saying MM doesn't need to learn to play under center and all that either, but he isn't being set up for success in my view and the receivers are not being set up for success either.
I don't think the offensive philosophy fits the defense very well either. I think the defense still needs some defensive backs and likely some outside pass rush upgrades as well, but I think the defense as is would be more effective playing with a lead and being able to blitz more instead of playing close games and needing to play more zone and passive defense.
It all comes back to the head coach. I think he is holding the teams development back and a new coach willing to build the offense and rest of the team around Mariotta and the strength they have at WR now makes more sense than keeping a coach who tries to turn every players into a TE.
msommer
Footballguy
Frisman, Robiskie and hopefully Mularkey too. If Mularkey stays my confidence level on improving anything is very low.Bri said:
Reboot the use and focus of the offensive skill players to fit their strengths
Bring in a blocking TE and set Jonnu free
Bring Fowler back instead of emphasizing the WRs to block.
Hand the reins of the run game to Henry, either use (and pay) Murray as a third down back or set him free.If the latter draft a 3rd down back (and bring someone in for a camp battle)
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Break out game. Might go over 100 yards.
I think they'd have fired Mularkey if they lost last week. Since they feel like winning a playoff game last week earned him another year I think they are going to make him fire Robiskie instead. The offense just can't return with the same approach.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Have not read what went down here yet but I'm guessing they asked him to fire Robiskie or both of his coordinators and he refused.
msommer
Footballguy
I would be very surprised if ownership wanted him to fire LeBeau. Robiskie is another story
steelers1080
Footballguy
FREEEEEDOM!
Probably for him and Henry. Although, could easily see the Titans cutting/trading Demarco, and drafting a new pass catching back.
Probably for him and Henry. Although, could easily see the Titans cutting/trading Demarco, and drafting a new pass catching back.
Mularkey leaving has to be reason for some optimism, but I think it's far from a slam dunk that Davis is going to be a long term WR1 for fantasy, which is what everyone is assuming based on his draft pedigree and the general hype that surrounds him.
It doesn't concern me that he had a relatively unproductive rookie year, especially in that offense (and because he was slowed by injury), but what does concern me is that, from what I saw, he didn't really display any elite traits when he was on the field. To my (untrained) eyes, he simply looks like a 'solid' WR out there - not particularly fast, dynamic or athletic. I can't remember a play before his first TD this weekend against the Patriots that would make me think he's a special talent or has an extra gear that any number of WRs in the NFL don't have (and there are a LOT of quality WRs in the NFL right now). The games I saw he really just blended in for the most part and if I didn't know how high he was drafted, I would never have guessed he was such a highly regarded talent just from watching him. Honestly, I was more impressed watching Keelan Cole this year.
It doesn't concern me that he had a relatively unproductive rookie year, especially in that offense (and because he was slowed by injury), but what does concern me is that, from what I saw, he didn't really display any elite traits when he was on the field. To my (untrained) eyes, he simply looks like a 'solid' WR out there - not particularly fast, dynamic or athletic. I can't remember a play before his first TD this weekend against the Patriots that would make me think he's a special talent or has an extra gear that any number of WRs in the NFL don't have (and there are a LOT of quality WRs in the NFL right now). The games I saw he really just blended in for the most part and if I didn't know how high he was drafted, I would never have guessed he was such a highly regarded talent just from watching him. Honestly, I was more impressed watching Keelan Cole this year.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Actually agree with some of this but he missed training camp, preseason etc. That said I thought his separation ability would be better. He almost always had somebody right in his hip pocket when running his routes. It didn’t seem hard for even average CBs to stay with him. Also expected a little more deep ball ability but that could be on the offense and QB. His ypc for an outside WR was abysmal. Read a report on him around week 12 or 13 that said no WR in their first year with a ypc around his went on to be a star. He did come on some after that report. He’s a wait and see for me. Coaching change has to help but this wasn’t all on them. He looked lost, out of shape and slow out there. He did pop a lot more the last few games so hoping it was just the lack of prep due to injury early on.RushHour said:
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
It was one catch in a crappy season.Zyphros said:
Zyphros
Footballguy
Yeah how dare he catch 2 TD's in the playoffs in 1 game being the only bright spot for the team. Not to mention averaging 3 catches a game for 11 games with a good amount of highlight reel catches with toe tapping ability.
Hindsight this is probably what we should of expected of him coming from a lower conference but he's shown an ability to belong in the NFL as an ok WR, now it's dependent on if he elevates past 3 catches a game in a minimal role.
DropKick
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Can still buy low on Taywan Taylor though.Zyphros said:
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I agree with much of this but Delanie is a gem. The number of times he catches the ball with three people in coverage is ridiculous. It's even been pointed out that there were four and five. A tight end simply can't do better than that. Whether you like Gronk or Graham or whomever, Delanie still deserves tons of credit for catches against three men. I think there may even be a what if here. He was that effective, what if they actually had a normal offense and teams couldn't send 3+ to cover him? Titans may have wasted his best year and we'll never know.
I've said this 50 times but it's oh so true and valid for people to remember. Greg Cosell pointed out that when the Titans run their multiple TE set on third down, it is usually 2 or 3 targets en route.Mariota either has to take a sack or force it. Whether you think on nickel, dime, LBs covering...doesn't matter, the odds are against them even completing a pass.
I believe Mularkey had some success on 3rd and four with a defense fearing the run. He never admitted that the D was not scared of Henry on 3rd and long and expected this to work. At times he used a 3 WR offense on third and long which seemed like a good idea when they were sent onto the field. The WRs would be lined up caddy corner to the TE like an H-back and be asked to block a DE or LB OR they'd run a reverse to Taylor.
Belichick is a master at the multiple TE offense, like many things. Parcells, Gibbs, and Cowher have used two TE sets nicely. Tom Landry was well known for this until he got the talent at WR and the game evolved some. I believe he is also the "creator" of the dime defense or nickel. There's no excuse for Mularkey/Robiskie to not be watching famous coaches tapes and learning. They used a 1960s type offense as if the past decades didn't happen and acted surprised when it was unsuccessful.
As far as Davis, every WR should be able to enjoy the focus being cast upon a TE over the middle. Jonnu is an impressive receiver and wow good at blocking but we don't know if he's a gem yet. Davis better enjoy Delanie while he can. He may never have that again during his career
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voiceofunreason
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Who will probably be the forgotten man come the time rookie drafts roll around. I will be looking to buy.
He also made really impressive sideline catches against the Ravens, Steelers, and Pats. I think he at least established that his hands, body control, and extension for the ball on sideline routes are exceptional. This should play in the end zone if he were to ever see significant targets there. I have no idea why he wasn't fed some fades there close to the goalline. I thought he showed really impressive strength fighting for extra yards on the two slant routes he caught vs the Chiefs, reminded me of his college tape.
I do agree and I was surprised at his lack of separation and sharpness in a lot of his routes. I'm hoping to chalk that up to the hamstring still not being 100% sapping some of his explosiveness and burst. It was there in college, I can't believe it just disappeared outside of injury. I didn't see every game but saw the entire Ravens, Chiefs, Steelers and Pats games and big chunks of the Bengals and Raiders games. I thought he saw a good amount of safety help from the Ravens, Pats, and Steelers, often taking away his deeper routes.
