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Media Criticism (1 Viewer)

Jordan @JordanChariton

For at least the 2nd time today, @CNN just used the SAME Iowa poll from the BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER to show @BernieSanders in 4th place. Meanwhile, in reality, he is CURRENTLY in a close 2nd place according to the Real Clear Politics Average of polls in Iowa.

 
I did not know Maddow was being sued. She was also called out by a WAPO reporter for being "misleading and dishonest".

LINK
 

MSNBC host Rachel Maddow is defending herself in court by claiming her statements on air should not be taken as fact.

Maddow’s lawyer referred to her “rhetorical hyperbole” in a $10 million defamation lawsuit brought by One America News Network, which the host of “The Rachel Maddow Show” claimed, “really, literally is paid Russian propaganda.”

Theodore Boutrous Jr. claimed in a defense motion, according to Culttture, that the liberal host “was clearly offering up her ‘own unique expression’ of her views to capture what she saw as the ‘ridiculous’ nature of the undisputed facts. Her comment, therefore, is a quintessential statement ‘of rhetorical hyperbole, incapable of being proved true or false.’”

OANN, filed the $10 million defamation lawsuit in a federal court in California in September against Maddow, Comcast Corporation, NBC Universal, and MSNBC, accusing Maddow of “maliciously and recklessly” smearing the network.

“In this case, the most obsequiously pro-Trump right-wing news outlet in America is really, literally is paid Russian propaganda,” Maddow had declared in a July segment on her show. “Their on-air politics reporter (Kristian Rouz) is paid by the Russian government to produce propaganda for that government.”

A linguistics expert believes Maddow’s comments would not be perceived as an opinion by most of her viewers.

“It is very unlikely that an average or reasonable/ordinary viewer would consider the sentence in question to be a statement of opinion,” UC Santa Barbara linguistics professor Stefan Thomas Gries said, according to Culttture.

“Maddow did not use any typical opinion-markers when she stated that OANN ‘really literally is paid Russian propaganda,’” Gries added, citing analysis that studied the MSNBC host’s words, tone, and cadence.

The remarks by the 46-year-old liberal commentator were known to be “false” by the defendants named in the lawsuit, the OANN complaint alleged, and her words were “meant to damage” the conservative channel, which was launched in 2013.

 
Maybe I'm just being spiteful but I really enjoy seeing her (and MSNBC as a whole) dragged a bit for their nonsense.  Felt like they got a pass for literally anything they said for the last 4 years, no matter how ridiculous it was
For the record, I believe that they (MSNBC, CNN, etc...) still are getting a pass from the people still watching them.  I mean, the viewers of these shows are the same people that think Fox News viewers are nothing but blind, dumb and obedient sheep.

 
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For the record, I believe that they (MSNBC, CNN, etc...) still are getting a pass from the people still watching them.  I mean, the viewers of these shows are the same people that think Fox News viewers are nothing but blind, dumb and obedient sheep.
I agree and think the media bias chart needs some tweaking.

 
How so?  Honestly curious in what way is it in need of that?

It lists msnbc as pretty badd (same with Fox).
WaPo, NY Times are two I would move much further left/more biased.  IMO, there is simply no way either of those can be considered anything other than propaganda arms of the DNC.

 
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WaPo, NY Times are two I would move much further left/more biased.  IMO, there is simply no way either of those can be considered anything other than propaganda arms of the DNC.
Except they easily can be not considered as you claim.  No reputable media bias check comes close to making this claim about those two.  In what way are either propaganda arms of the DNC.  Please cote real examples and backup of such a claim.

 
For the record, I believe that they (MSNBC, CNN, etc...) still are getting a pass from the people still watching them.  I mean, the viewers of these shows are the same people that think Fox News viewers are nothing but blind, dumb and obedient sheep.
Agreed. I have a few family members who watch every second of the MSNBC night block and repeat it word for word whenever they talk politics, but they love to bang on Fox News viewers every chance they get. I'm no fan of Fox either but some folks at MSNBC went off the deep end a few years ago

 
Except they easily can be not considered as you claim.  No reputable media bias check comes close to making this claim about those two.  In what way are either propaganda arms of the DNC.  Please cote real examples and backup of such a claim.
Quote real examples?  I can link you directly to each of their home pages online, but I know you're smart enough to be able to do that yourself.

As an aside,  you keep asking others to back up with links but when you're asked you either pivot for a distraction or ignore it completely.  It would be great of you practiced what you preached.  You also have a hard time discerning between "fact" and "opinion".  My post was clearly an opinion.

 
Quote real examples?  I can link you directly to each of their home pages online, but I know you're smart enough to be able to do that yourself.

As an aside,  you keep asking others to back up with links but when you're asked you either pivot for a distraction or ignore it completely.  It would be great of you practiced what you preached.  You also have a hard time discerning between "fact" and "opinion".  My post was clearly an opinion.
I can link you to multiple sites that fact check things that call them credible.  Ive looked at their homepages and its nothing close to propaganda for the dnc.  So yes, cite something specific to back up your claim please.  Even as an opinion, it seems reasonable ti have something to base it on.
Like here are two links discussing the credibility of the sources you mentioned.

NYT

Washington Post

As for links...I disagree with you that I ignore or pivot.  If its someone im engaged with i answer and provide support.  If its one of a few who know I wont ever reply to them...its sort of laughable to expect me to answer such posts.  And Id kindly ask you to not try and make things personal and keep it about my posts.

 
I can link you to multiple sites that fact check things that call them credible.  Ive looked at their homepages and its nothing close to propaganda for the dnc.  So yes, cite something specific to back up your claim please.  Even as an opinion, it seems reasonable ti have something to base it on.
Like here are two links discussing the credibility of the sources you mentioned.

NYT

Washington Post

As for links...I disagree with you that I ignore or pivot.  If its someone im engaged with i answer and provide support.  If its one of a few who know I wont ever reply to them...its sort of laughable to expect me to answer such posts.  And Id kindly ask you to not try and make things personal and keep it about my posts.
I'm glad you at least provided links even though I didn't ask for any.

I don''t necessarily have to backup my opinion with oodles and oodles of sites, surveys, link or whatever.  I can see and read the articles with my own eyes and come to my own conclusions and there is no doubt, IN MY OPINION, that those sites are slanted heavily left.  They've been carrying the water for the Democrats for the last 30 or 40 years along with the rest of the MSM.

You can believe whatever someone tells you or you can actually look at it yourself and come to your own conclusions.  Maybe they'll match what you believe or maybe they won't but here's the deal:  They brought this all on themselves.  Had they remained neutral all these years then conservatives might still believe them. 

Trust is something that takes YEARS to build, seconds to break and years to repair. The rise of Fox News and talk radio should have given them their first clue that they had lost trust from at least 50% of people.  Now they still expect us to believe them?  No thanks, that ship has sailed.

 
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I'm glad you at least provided links even though I didn't ask for any.

I don''t necessarily have to backup my opinion with oodles and oodles of sites, surveys, link or whatever.  I can see and read the articles with my own eyes and come to my own conclusions and there is no doubt, IN MY OPINION, that those sites are slanted heavily left.  They've been carrying the water for the Democrats for the last 30 or 40 years along with the rest of the MSM.

You can believe whatever someone tells you or you can actually look at it yourself and come to your own conclusions.  Maybe they'll match what you believe or maybe they won't but here's the deal:  They brought this all on themselves.  Had they remained neutral all these years then conservatives might still believe them. 

Trust is something that takes YEARS to build, seconds to break and years to repair. The rise of Fox News and talk radio should have given them their first clue that they had lost trust from at least 50% of people.  Now they still expect us to believe them?  No thanks, that ship has sailed.
Then would you link to any story by each that would be considered propaganda?  Or are you unwilling to do that?

Because there is a large difference between a site having bias or leaning either direction and just being propaganda.

Id say a place like OANN is propaganda and that WashPo and NYT don't come anywhere close to that.

 
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Thwn would you link to any story by each that would be considered propaganda?  Or are you unwilling to do that?

Because there is a large difference between a site having bias or leaning either direction and just being propaganda.

Id say a place like OANN is propaganda and that WashPo and NYT don't come anywhere close to that.
OANN is actually currently suing MSNBC, Maddow, CNN, etc... for saying exactly what you just said, btw.

I agree that their is a difference between bias and propaganda, but when a site consistently does it I tend to lean more towards propaganda because the point is to inundate a reader constantly and consistently with one point of view only.  Whether it's by omitting context/facts, outright bias in the article or anything else.   The same goes for anything on the right too.

WaPo and NYTimes consistently provide only one point of view, IMO.

 
Thwn would you link to any story by each that would be considered propaganda?  Or are you unwilling to do that?

Because there is a large difference between a site having bias or leaning either direction and just being propaganda.

Id say a place like OANN is propaganda and that WashPo and NYT don't come anywhere close to that.
You spelt pwned wrong.

 
OANN is actually currently suing MSNBC, Maddow, CNN, etc... for saying exactly what you just said, btw.

I agree that their is a difference between bias and propaganda, but when a site consistently does it I tend to lean more towards propaganda because the point is to inundate a reader constantly and consistently with one point of view only.  Whether it's by omitting context/facts, outright bias in the article or anything else.   The same goes for anything on the right too.

WaPo and NYTimes consistently provide only one point of view, IMO.
So yes...you refuse to bring any example where those two are propaganda.  Thanks

 
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So yes...you refuse to bring any example where those two are propaganda.  Thanks
See, this is why it's is impossible to hold a conversation with you.  I knew you were going to be disingenuous about this whole conversation but I thought I would give you a chance.  I clearly was wrong.  I won't make that mistake again.

I explained in a previous post how I feel and what I think conservatives are feeling about the media, in this case specifically the NYTimes and WaPo.  I said you could go directly to their home pages.  Just because YOU don't (or refuse) to see it, doesn't mean it's not there.  I go to their pages and all I see is Democrat loving journalists.  And as I said in a previous post, this took YEARS of build up before it got to this point for me and pretty much every conservative out there.

Anyways, it's obvious you aren't interested in conversation and you're more interested in proving that you're way is the only way, games of "gotcha!" and whatever else your agenda dictates so you can score points with your fellow posters, I guess.  I'll just stick to my previous policy of not engaging you.

I hope you have a wonderful rest of day.  Good day.

 
See, this is why it's is impossible to hold a conversation with you.  I knew you were going to be disingenuous about this whole conversation but I thought I would give you a chance.  I clearly was wrong.  I won't make that mistake again.

I explained in a previous post how I feel and what I think conservatives are feeling about the media, in this case specifically the NYTimes and WaPo.  I said you could go directly to their home pages.  Just because YOU don't (or refuse) to see it, doesn't mean it's not there.  I go to their pages and all I see is Democrat loving journalists.  And as I said in a previous post, this took YEARS of build up before it got to this point for me and pretty much every conservative out there.

Anyways, it's obvious you aren't interested in conversation and you're more interested in proving that you're way is the only way, games of "gotcha!" and whatever else your agenda dictates so you can score points with your fellow posters, I guess.  I'll just stick to my previous policy of not engaging you.

I hope you have a wonderful rest of day.  Good day.
:goodposting:

 
See, this is why it's is impossible to hold a conversation with you.  I knew you were going to be disingenuous about this whole conversation but I thought I would give you a chance.  I clearly was wrong.  I won't make that mistake again.

I explained in a previous post how I feel and what I think conservatives are feeling about the media, in this case specifically the NYTimes and WaPo.  I said you could go directly to their home pages.  Just because YOU don't (or refuse) to see it, doesn't mean it's not there.  I go to their pages and all I see is Democrat loving journalists.  And as I said in a previous post, this took YEARS of build up before it got to this point for me and pretty much every conservative out there.

Anyways, it's obvious you aren't interested in conversation and you're more interested in proving that you're way is the only way, games of "gotcha!" and whatever else your agenda dictates so you can score points with your fellow posters, I guess.  I'll just stick to my previous policy of not engaging you.

I hope you have a wonderful rest of day.  Good day.
My posts are not disingenuous.  I think its a simple request...If I claim a site is just propaganda and someone asks for an example, Id provide one.

 Ive backed up my opinions about those sites...only asked if you could do the same.

 
Going back through the first couple hundred pages of the Mueller thread is a good start to find all the stories that never panned out.

We have Russian Agent theory, Russian Mob ties, Pee tape, Trump tower with a direct line to Russia and the likes.  Fascinating read 3 years later.

 
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/12/nbcs-meet-the-press-libels-the-gateway-pundit-rush-limbaugh-drudge-infowars-for-spreading-intentionally-bad-information/

Click the link to see NBC's flow chart on how propaganda gets to facebook. 

TODD: Matthew, I wanted you to address what I think is an ecosystem problem, at least on the right. I want to put up something that my colleague, Ben Collins, put here. It’s a bit of an ecosystem here. It’ll say, something starts on 4Chan. There’s the subreddit of Trump. InfoWars might pick it up. Then it starts inching into the mainstream. Gateway Pundit might just say, “Oh, what’s this about?” Then it gets to Drudge, might have a provocative headline link. Rush might say it in his fun, little way. Then it does make its way into Fox News and then, of course, your Facebook feed. How do you create more accountability in the conservative ecosystem for, basically, dealing with propaganda?

 
Gateway Pundit?  Really?

Let me just not listen to them pontificate about propaganda

 


QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact checked on a per article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source
 
:whoosh: You missed the whole point of the article and your reaction actually proves a point, so thank you. 
I ignored it as its an awful source that pedals BS...its not one that should be used for anything...its that bad.

Proves what point...that they pedal BS?  Because its what they do.

 
I ignored it as its an awful source that pedals BS...its not one that should be used for anything...its that bad.

Proves what point...that they pedal BS?  Because its what they do.
Well they cited NBC reporting and graphics for their story and its funny because of how untrue it is.

 
Well they cited NBC reporting and graphics for their story and its funny because of how untrue it is.
Which part was untrue?  Seems NBC claimed that GatewayPundit pushes false information...they do.  That isn't untrue...its what GP does.

My post above with a link shows they do that.

 
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Which part was untrue?  Seems NBC claimed that GatewayPundit pushes false information...they do.  That isn't untrue...its what GP does.

My post above with a link shows they do that.
Its showing a flowchart that cites 4 chan as ground zero for news that gets filter through other networks and becomes a thing on facebook. It's not factual reporting by NBC.  

Also having Drudge on there proves they dont research everything they say. Drudge was sold and isnt a conservative site anymore. 

But in the future you can just not respond to any of my posts where all you're going to do is complain about the source. Thanks in advance.

 
Its showing a flowchart that cites 4 chan as ground zero for news that gets filter through other networks and becomes a thing on facebook. It's not factual reporting by NBC.  

Also having Drudge on there proves they dont research everything they say. Drudge was sold and isnt a conservative site anymore. 

But in the future you can just not respond to any of my posts where all you're going to do is complain about the source. Thanks in advance.
It was an example given n how things may move from the fringe into mainstream.  And I dint think there is anything showing that they are wrong that thjngs dint move like that.

Sure Drudge is dumb to include...but thats a pretty weak criticism of the overall point.

And Gateway complaining about things being at all wrong is hilarious. Im positive there will be no actual libel lawsuit there.

 
Merely initiating a lawsuit isn't particularly meaningful. Devin Nunes is suing an imaginary cow. 
He's really suing an imaginary cow? Or is that your biased, over the top interpretation?

I would think that if he was suing an imaginary car that the courts will throw his lawsuit out for being frivolous. I guess that remains to be seen.

 
Thanks for the link!

So he's really not suing an imaginary cow, but a parody account on Twitter obviously owned by someone that is not a cow.

So while I don't think Nunes will succeed in his lawsuit the original post WAS a biased interpretation of what the lawsuit actually is.

 
It was an example given n how things may move from the fringe into mainstream.  And I dint think there is anything showing that they are wrong that thjngs dint move like that.

Sure Drudge is dumb to include...but thats a pretty weak criticism of the overall point.

And Gateway complaining about things being at all wrong is hilarious. Im positive there will be no actual libel lawsuit there.
I agree with you that GP is not exactly a reliable source. I think it is also too far to call WaPo and NYT part of the DNC propaganda machine. 

But I do believe that the counter to whether or not they are the arm of the DNC should never be medias bias sites. That basically becomes a circular argument. If a media bias site rated them as far left, then that media bias site would probably be labeled as not reputable. So if we say "reputable media bias sites rate them as neutral" we arent really proving anything. 

The best arguments for and against WaPo and NYT would simply be discussing their content and the postings of their employees.

NYT is kind of a funny one for me since they get accused repeatedly by both sides as being too biased. 

I think it is pretty clear that there is a definite liberal slant to their content and more importantly  their effort put in for content. But I still read them and I obviously rate them much higher than GP or OANN. I don't actively seek content from those two(those two being GP and OANN), but I would never completely reject content from those two that was brought to me by somebody in a discussion.

I have made the point before regarding the CIS. Many people always want to just dismiss everything they say as too biased. Some of it is. But some of it also has very in depth information available that comes directly from federal or state reporting agencies. I wish they did a better job at linking those tables to the actual pages of government data but I have literally never found a single time where they put up a table that they claim represents data from a report that didnt match the data in that report. Certainly their conclusions about the data can be subject to bias, but they aren't fabricators of data.  

To me there is a very big difference in a site that declares some wild stat and has zero backup and then makes conclusions from that data compared to a site that cites some actual data and then makes a claim about that data that is widely disagreed with.

One of those articles would be useless. One of them can actually be informative and shouldn't be dismissed. 

The second is actually what political discussions should be like. The first is unfortunately what they have often become. 

 
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This is the stuff that gets me riled up.  It isn't news.  It isn't empirical.  It's purely the anecdotal experience of one person and that one person's opinion.  

I don't know anything about this woman's family, the way she raised her kids, their school, their friends, their on line habits.  And yet, CNN publishes this as a front page "story" apparently based off of single Tweet that she made that characterizes us all as potential victims. 

If you want to do a story on the steps that white nationalist groups are taking to recruit young kids, go for it.  That's a story, and one that I would be interested in.  Just don't be so lazy and take one mom's Tweet as the definitive source on the issue.  

 
This is the stuff that gets me riled up.  It isn't news.  It isn't empirical.  It's purely the anecdotal experience of one person and that one person's opinion.  

I don't know anything about this woman's family, the way she raised her kids, their school, their friends, their on line habits.  And yet, CNN publishes this as a front page "story" apparently based off of single Tweet that she made that characterizes us all as potential victims. 

If you want to do a story on the steps that white nationalist groups are taking to recruit young kids, go for it.  That's a story, and one that I would be interested in.  Just don't be so lazy and take one mom's Tweet as the definitive source on the issue.  
I hate stories like that. I find them completely unbelievable. Especially when the media does zero vetting of them.

Hi, i am a feminist writer that writes about men becoming neo nazis. Please take as fact that this experience actually happened to me and my sons were being targeted. No seriously this isnt me coming up with a way to try and tell the same story i tell all the time in a real world experience manner. 

 
Maybe I'm just being spiteful but I really enjoy seeing her (and MSNBC as a whole) dragged a bit for their nonsense.  Felt like they got a pass for literally anything they said for the last 4 years, no matter how ridiculous it was
How hilarious would it be if Maddow got owned in court by OANN.  The last time I can recall a popular infotainment show host having to argue in court that they weren't really liable for their statements because they were embellished hyperbole, was Alex Jones... 

 
How hilarious would it be if Maddow got owned in court by OANN.  The last time I can recall a popular infotainment show host having to argue in court that they weren't really liable for their statements because they were embellished hyperbole, was Alex Jones... 
I think they have a pretty good case against her.  When her defense is that when she uses the word "literally" she doesn't mean it literally. 

Then someone rewinds the tapes and finds over 100 examples of her saying literally and meaning it literally.

 

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